Comments on: Online game warns gay-lesbian guild

"World of Warcraft" publisher tells guild that it risks being banned if it doesn't cease its recruiting activities.

[Hobo453567]

Don't mean to offend.

I said sexual preference when the proper term is probably orientation. Preference sounds like bi-sexual except that you prefer one over the other. Is that correct? Like I said, I don't mean to offend.

[Zhanael]

No worries.

Politically, yes, "orientation" is the correct word. However, in the context in which you use the word, "preference" is perhaps the most well-known. Either way, it's not that much of a difference. To me, at least, and a few others I know of.

[gesslar]

If

If you've ever mentioned your wife in a game then you have done the same thing as I do when I mention my boyfriend. By inference you are talking about your sexuality. If you mentioned your children, you have even inferred more.

What I'm trying to say is that GLBT means more than who I like to have sex with. When I mention my boyfriend, I am not talking about sex. People often say this is "in your face", well, it's as "in your face" as when heteros talk about their spouses or girlfriends. And many teenagers play this game who have girlfriends, boyfriends or who have parents who have procreated to their benefit.

So to your point, any inference as to sexual orientation (Sam: "My wife is making me get off the computer", Louise: "My husband's home, I need to get dinner started", Jason: "Boyfriend's asleep, do you want to go hunting?") is entirely meaningless. GLBT friendly groups are probably looking for like-minded people who are interested in communicating with each other in terms that to them would be more comfortable, relieving you of the tedium of being annoyed.

[gesslar]

Crap

My comment was supposed to be in reply to Darren Star's post :(

http://news.com.com/5208-1043-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=13575&messageID=108977&start=-100

[Aaeadile]

World of Warcraft GBLT Guild Situation

Well, I'm afraid I kind of have to side with the head of the guild, Oz, here. She was doing nothing against ToS. I feel pretty confident when I say that BLIZZARD itself was the one who violated their own ToS.
I feel they should have to suffer the same consequences as any of us. Until they update the ToS to include making yourself a target for harassment, as they say they're going to do. They really can't say anything about the comment she made in her recruitement phrase.
If she choose to make herself a target for harassment by including that in her recruitement message, that's her personal choice and problem, not a problem of Blizzard's.

[Hobo453567]

I agree.

That was the one part I couldn't quite put my finger on. The wording of legal documents always confuses the heck out of me. You explained it in a way that is easily understood.

[changing_seasons]

The Unruh Act and the Blizzard Policy

Here's an explanation of the California's Unruh Act, and the some changes incorporated 1/1/2005 into the act by AB1400 (explanation is from an Equality California press release, <http://tinyurl.com/cogpe>):
--
The Unruh Act applies to all business establishments that provide services, goods or accommodations to the public. Businesses subject to the Unruh Act include, but are not limited to, shopping centers, mobile home parks, bars and restaurants, schools, medical and dental offices, hotels and motels, and condominium homeowners associations. The Unruh Act explicitly prohibits discrimination based on sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability or medical condition. Courts have held that the categories listed in the law are merely examples and that the Unruh Act should be interpreted broadly to prohibit arbitrary discrimination including discrimination based on personal characteristics, geographical origin, physical attributes and individual beliefs.
--

Blizzard is based out of Irvine, CA. My guess would be that Lambda Legal, The Task Force, GLAAD, or some other LGBT public policy related organization will bring up the Unruh Act in relationship to this story relatively soon, and the story will hit the mainstream press when it does.

WoW is a Game

Believe it or not, the G in MMORPG stands for game. WoW is a game first, and a center for social interaction second. Blizzard's EULA and ToS are designed around securing an efficient game environment, not a chatroom. Blizzard has to draw the line here for a reason. You say you're gay, somebody will get upset. You say you're a republican, someone will get upset. It a basic fact that somebody will be against your preference. For blizzard, the easiest way to avoid this kind of tension is simple. The "don't tell" rule. Don't discuss religion, sexual preferance, and things of that nature in game. It isn't relevent to the game. Don't like it? Too bad. Blizzard is enforcing a game, no matter how much of a chatroom it turns into. Have all the sexual conversation you want in a private chat, or outside the game.
Guilds advertising acceptance of a certain preferance is no better than talking about it. Why should it matter what your sexual preferance is? Why bring it into the game? If everyone just shut the hell up, no one would be upset. This is what blizzard is trying to do. Shut the irrelevant controversial stuff out.
As for roleplaying servers, the same policy follows. Have all the fun you want talking with your friends talking about whatever the hell you want. Just don't advertise it. You're only asking for trouble. The issue here is less about what you say, and more about what you say openly.

[Zhanael]

A game, hm?

Unfortunately, you forget to mention the "MMO"--Massively Multiplayer Online. Game or not, these are living, breathing people playing the game. Millions of them, in World of Warcraft's case.

I know of no game with online multiplayer capability being completely devoid of Real-Life content. Even Blizzard had adopted Real-Life holidays (and even some corresponding issues) into the world of Azeroth!

[IgnoreMePlease]

Oh my goodness! Great feedback

Well, it's been perfect, thank you to all the people that responded to my original post. It was wonderful to see the reponse. Of course there were the supporters of my article and they're all good people, but more importantly, the people who clearly took offense to my article were even better.

I was cursed at birth with a sense of odd irony/sarcasm that can be mistaken as a form of humor by myself and a few unfortunate others (I'm talking about you Mr. It's Arkansas that we really need to worry about :)). But the important thing to notice is that the words I chose were in fact chosen wisely. They were chosen specifically to trigger a negative response by a reader group.

Kansas was chosen specifically because of the intelligent design debates that the news channels give credit for having originated in. The people typically credited (some but not all Kansans) are a group that care very much about what's said around them as well as feel strongly about their beliefs and do not like to have the infringed upon. This group was chosen because I hoped a few Kansans would speak out against my entire comment specifically because of my reference to them even though I felt I placed it in such a way that should compliment their strong clinging to their values in a positive light.

The second comment I can recall at the moment was regarding unemployed rednecks taking offense. Well... only kidding. I had spent enough time watching Jeff Foxworthy that I chose this group because I felt their sense of humor would best handle the remark, I had forgotten that Jeff had once said "You can't pick on us unless you have a 1970's Ford on concrete blocks outside the house of your own" or something of the sort. The second reason for the choice of group is clearly reflected in the TV you watch each day. The entertainment industry (game companies included) thrive on recession. They can sell more commercial time at higher rates as well. The reason for this is that they target a specific demographic and produce shows for them with country singers as stars or sports coaches considering a plaid button down an acceptable replacement to a suit and tie. When unemployment is high, TV is viewed nearly constantly and companies like Coca Cola and McDonalds make a fortune targetting this viewer demographic. The fact is that the TV executives sitting in tall buildings in manhatten would never approve a show of that sort if there wasn't real money to be made from it. They understand this and exploit this. Any intelligent marketing exec at a game company understands this as well.

The point that I made by placing these few choice comments in was that some people aren't ready for certain types of content. News.com readership is probably dominated by ages 18 and up by no small margin, therefore I felt comfortable making the comments here. But my writing proved that even the most well intentioned writers still need to be extremely careful of their behaviour in any environment, even on a blog.

As one last case, I grew up with guys that came out of the closet after reaching the age of 19, moving the San Fran and becoming hair dressers because of the sexual confusion they weren't ready for when they were younger. It's not fair to tell a 13 year old kid that is going though the most sexually confusing stage of their life that they can't find the least sense of equality in a video game. It should be some place where kids and adults can play responsably together.

My 2 cents :)

[Reworded]

Double-Edged Sword (of the Monkey, +2 Agi)

As a frequent MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role playing game) player myself, I see both sides of this issue. On the one hand, it is an attractive option to be able to select a guild of likeminded individuals to play with on a regular basis. In fact, as you progress further into the game, and teamwork becomes more important, even vital, a good guild and set of friends in the game world makes all the difference when it comes to continued enjoyment.

I can understand, from this standpoint, why the guild in question wanted to advertise in the way that they did.

But (oh yes, there is always a but) I can not argue with Blizzard on their decision here, for two reasons.

First, this is a game, and the sexuality of the player should never be a determining factor in the perception of said player. Let me explain why this enters into play: granted, the guild master here may not have said "glbt only", but with that "stigma" (if you will) attached to the guild name, members are placed in a precarious position, in that they immediately become lightning rods for the indiscriminate ribbing of the less tolerant (read: juvenile) player base. Granted, in a perfect world, we would stop the harassers, not censor the harassed, but a "glbt oriented" guild might as well be "glbt only" in the eyes of the average gamer. They would be setting themselves - and by extension, Blizzard - up for disaster, not to mention a potential pubilc relations nightmare.

Second, there is nothing preventing glbt players from joining completely functional guilds that have nothing to do with the sex, age, gender-preference, sexuality, race, creed, height, weight, etc. of any of the players involved. If they choose to share that personal, real-world information with players they know and trust (I, for example, disclose very little about myself except with a few players I have known since World of Warcraft launched in late 2004), that is their decision. Announcing and making public your personal information in what is supposed to be a "fantasy" game seems to be an attempt at establishing a comfortable online social scene that suits sexual preference, rather than a comfortable online gaming experience that enhances everyone's gameplay and provides opportunities to complete end-game content. If that's jargony, don't worry. I just hope the gist of it is clear.

As a side note, Blizzard only said that they can not actively recruit for the guild IN THAT MANNER in-game. They can recruit outside the game, get referenced on Google, etc., and if a glbt-friendly guild is really what they want, likeminded people will find them, and not advertising in-game will save them (and Blizz) from a load of grief.

[kajun2112]

Kudos to Blizzard

Why do the gays think that they are the only ones who gets offended. I find their lifestyle offensive and it does not need to be broadcasted in a game. I can guarantee you if I had a "hetero" friendly guild the gays would be whining like little babies. Kudos to you Blizzard for keep all of this out of game. If you want to discuss sexual orientation, politics, or religion - take it out of the game where it belongs.

[Sixt2]

The reason for making this guild

You have to look at the reason why theese people find it usefull to create a "GLBT friendly" guild. That is because of the language in the general and in most other guild chats that can be wery offensive against the people with feelings that are not forbidden. As far as I know Blizzard are not taking actions against bad language in guildchats as they say that should be regulated by the guild themselves. The announcement done in the general chat is equal to saying "join our guild, we are a non-swearing guild". I guess you would not have problems with that.
As for making a "hetro friendly" guild, the day people start using the word "hetro" in a negative manner I probably would join your guild.

[fireball74]

You're missing the point....

Blizzard has made their statement, but still play favorites. I personally find it offensive that there are many self-proclaimed "Christian" guilds, but yet no warning is sent to them. Why? I can sum it up in two words; double standards. Actions speak louder than words, and Blizzard's actions have, indeed, spoken louder than their words.

How about I put it for you this way? I *HATE* the way people are selfish, overbearing, and prejudiced against other people. And nothing sickens me more than elitist hypocrites, who have nothing better to do than try and tell other people how they can live their lives. A world full of clones would be horribly boring, wouldn't it?

For a side note, I really don't agree with the gay lifestyle either, it's not my place, but I will fight tooth and nail to protect it. Why? Because eventually, if I don't, there will be no one left to protect my or your basic human rights to live how we want to. Think about that long and hard.

[Zimmyglrl]

This is ridiculous

First of all, if she isn't bothering anyone, these so called "managers" shouldn't bother her. If the people who play this game are supposed to be adults, then her recruiting new people to this guild shouldn't matter. Second, haven't you people ever heard of a social life? Get offline for a few minutes and talk to an actual person, instead of someone over the internet. This problem is what is wrong with America today.

[Zhanael]

Erm...

The game isn't just American, you know. And not everyone uses it as an online dating service; I personally know at least two or three married couples that play--one of which have children that also play with them. Such is the problem with stereotypes; not everyone DOESN'T have a social life.

Um...

The problem is this game isn't designed for adults; It's for teens and above. In order to prevent random flame wars about things that people feel strongly about (sexual preferance, religion, politics, etc) or to keep things at a level that they feel young teens can be exposed to (don't want to get the ESRB on their case), blizzard is, and should be, allowed to limit the topics of dicussion in *public* chat.

[Zhanael]

Hoo-boy...*gets on her soapbox*

Forgive me if I sound arrogant and blunt; I shall certainly do my best not to.

Since May, 2005, I have been an avid player on World of Warcraft. I've been on all the different types of servers, and specifically the PvE and RP types. I've played all different types of characters, and have spent an equal amount of time on both Horde and Alliance, on all but the PVP-esque (PVP and the new RP-PVP) servers.

And I have to say, I am highly disappointed.

I don't like the way Blizzard handles its chat channels as it is now. If the company truly wants to be anal-retentive about its policies, then a little more attention should be spent on the RP realms (and yes, I am using this as an excuse to complain publicly, off-forums); I cannot count how many player name violations I see in Night Elves with variations of Sephiroth (Square-Enix's Final Fantasy series), Drizz't Do'urden (Dungeons and Dragons, specifically the Forgotten Realms novels), Legolas (Lord of the Rings), and even Blizzard's own Illidan, Malfurion, Sylvanas, and Tyrande. The General Chats of RP servers are not "in character" as they're said to be. Every day I'm on, I see--and, sometimes, make--remarks that blatantly violate Blizzard's ToS and EULA. And yet, nothing happens to me, or any of the people that make these comments.

Why? Because there is no GM to stop us.

Blizzard's Game Master employment is too low for any of the peace they say they want. Either that, or too much attention is being paid to the highly active PVP servers, and the few PVE and RP servers on which I've never been.

However, I believe I can determine what Blizzard is saying. I'm sure that the GM that warned Ms. Andrews could foresee something happening (because, regrettably, something _always_ does), and to save him- or herself the stress, Ms. Andrews the harrassment, and everyone else the anger and eventual flame wars brought on by the unreasonable bigotry, he or she warned Ms. Andrews.

While I _personally_ don't believe this action was right, I _do_ believe that it was most likely the best course of action to be taken at that point. Unless Blizzard hires on more GMs to police the channels and lessen the need for the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered peoples to remain under the radar, that need will still be there, on most types of servers.

On that note, I will say that I do not blame the GLBT players; it is my personal belief that, while homosexual tendencies of any point in its spectrum is entirely natural, violent reactions to stronger tendencies are also entirely natural. Unfortunately, the latter's reactions tend to be the loudest--louder, perhaps, than the former's protesting cries. To hide ourselves in fear of physical abuse, verbal abuse, and any other form of abuse, is entirely feasible. However, until measures are taken to suppress the heterosexuals' violent instincts against those that differ to the point that _at least_ tolerance is adhered to, hiding, if only partially, is perhaps the best course of action.

To conclude, while I don't approve of Blizzard's course of action, it is, perhaps, the best course of action available to the Game Master available. Blizzard's GM staff is poor, and, unfortunately, incidents happen far too often. It could use some work, but it's certainly better than nothing. And until my fellow human beings (specifically, most of my fellow Americans, but others, too) can get their heads out of the clouds and then their rears, clashes are going to continue to be constant.

Thank you.

[orions_psycho_exgirlfrien]

Who cares?

It don't matter to me someone's sexual orientation. It is their own business. Not something they need to advertise all over the Internet as a sign of how superior they claim to be because of it. Not something they need to use to troll others. Not even something they need to get CNET to write an article on them for even more shameless self-promotion of their sexual orientation.

G&L Friendly WOW guild, big deal! Want a cookie for that? How about an academy award? I could care less. How can this be news, unless it is all part of a conspiracy to shove someone's political and moral views in the faces of everyone who plays WOW and reads CNET?

You are who you are, no need to advertise to the rest of the world who you are. Your fifteen minutes have been used up now. I only wish you peace and understanding and hope that others can tolerate you for being who you are. G&L Friendly Spammer and Internet Troll.

[VelociRapture]

Not Thinking

There are some very bright people in here. There are also some good, but naive or misguided ones as well. Far Star gets it very well. One thing that I would add to Far Star's analysis is that the problem of "online enjoyment" is made even worse if you factor in one other angle. I have seen the game, but have not actively played it, so im curious.. what stops a whole bunch of gay-hating people to joing the gay-friendly guild, quietly infiltrating (after all, that are just friendly, right? I mean... it's not an excusive club, you don't HAVE to be gay, etc. to belong, right?) only to (is this possible in the game?) totally backstab the group at a critical moment... like, say, during a concerted attack at the time by members of the gay hater's guild? Wow, wouldn't that just make it a "more fun" experience? :)
Anyway... not thinking... some very intelligent people made decisions high above to make the rules a certain way for very real reasons. From the fact that it's their game (if you dont like, don't have to play.. very simple) to business, PR and lawsuit related reasons. I personally could care less what other people do in real life... or in the game for that matter... but I do find it amusing to see people's lack of thinking ability.
While the point could be made that (logically) you could make a "Gay Friendly" group for all those CHARACTERS (not real people) that are gay should be permissible, by the way, also opens the door for the "**** Haters" CHARACTERS as well. (You know, not that they REALLY feel this way..)
Again... Not Thinking.
The gay friendly thing is a nice but naive approach. I wonder if for the fun of it, someone could start a "Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Satanist friendly group." and watch the fun that ensues when "nice people with different beliefs" get together. Like someone else here wrote, the nirvana that people search for online does not ultimately exist for long. Witness, I used to chat on IRC back when 99% of the population had no idea what the "Internet" was. I used to enjoy having intelligent conversations with other college students (typically geeks of course at that time) until a gazillion morons ruined it. Thats not to say that there arent plenty of intelligent, great people that found their way there as well, but the fact is, that it changed forever, and the new paradigm is intelligent people+morons. So is the case for the virtual game worlds... nice gamers+morons is true there as well.
So enjoy the game people, and realize that every empire falls, and sooner or later, people will ruin even the nicest of virtual world plans, with their agendas, whether "well-meaning or otherwise". To make any group is to set yourself apart. It is so much easier to set yourself apart, then to try to get along with everyone. This is why people fail in the real world, as well as the virtual.

[K0rin-La]

CYA

I agree with Blizzard because they are only trying to protect those who enjoy their game. Why should anyone care whether the players of a guild are gay or straight? Shouldn't matter. Besides, if you are defined by your sexuality or any other personality trait, then you will be targeted for that trait. Best to just blend in when it comes to some situations.

[rurth24]

This is a retarded comment

Best to blend in? So what your saying is if your a minority, then it's best to blend in and not mention it just in case there are some KKK on WOW? They might harass you....

[TexanRealOne]

Overlooking the real problem

As an older member of onlinne games, it seems to me someone not seeing the whole picture. The young men are the ones more likey to cause heated situations.

[Vilhon]

Keep it to yourself

You know, I am really get sick and tired of people trying to drag their real-world issues into the gaming world. One of the reasons I enjoy online gaming is the ability to interact with people, without having to worry about if they are racist, sexist, or have any other hangups. If you want to advance your fight for <insert activist group> rights, stay out of a game that is set in a fantasy world. In the world of Nightelves, there are no US Presidents, no Middle East, and there should be NO place for discussions of political, etc, issues. PLAY THE GAME, DON'T USE IT TO MAKE OTHERS MISERABLE, just because you "have the right to". I also have rights, and those include NOT HAVING TO KNOW WHAT YOUR SEXUAL PREFERENCE IS (or even what your real gender is, thank you!). The game is NOT a forum to spread your issues, beliefs, or pick up dates. They've got chatrooms for that (complete with "avatars").
And to you "advocates" out there; if you don't play the game, BUTT OUT!

[rurth24]

Your off topic..

Guild chats are private so who cares what they discuss. What your saying is nobody should talk on Public chat unless it's about the game?

People seem to be missing the point and going off on tangents that don't mean anything. All they are doing is recruiting people to be in their Guild. So they want just GLBT... Whats wrong with that? They aren't publicly promising sexual acts to get people to join are they?

In my guild we talk about alot of things, in RL and WOW. Then again must of us are grown-ups and enjoy each others conversation.

[maciopa]

I need Your help

Could an active WoW player at US servers send me the "recruit a friend" key - I need it for my friend to evaluate the game befor he is ager to play it.
my e-mail -> vecna(at)wp.pl (in place of (at) type @ )

[rurth24]

Such Hate in this world

And it comes mostly from Ignorant Religious Zealots that can?t think for themselves. So if a Christian Guild formed would they be allowed to publicly recruit? It?s okay to have these things in the RW but not in a VW? I'm not gay and I don't find it offensive at all, I'm not afraid to admit that. Maybe it's cause I've grown up and don't feel threatened.

If we are ever going to make it past this hate, it has to stop here. I know young people can be hard at times, but it?s Blizzards responsibility to stop harassment when it happens not play God and try to foresee the future. The GLBT guilds aren?t doing anything but recruiting, they aren?t HARASSING anybody, and they aren?t publicly being open about their sexual acts. It seems they can take care of themselves. They are just recruiting people they feel would make a better game experience. It?s no different than joining a club outside in the RW. If blizzard is taking such a hard-line approach about this, they need to be clear across the board, with all guilds that recruit under certain standards.

This battle could hurt Blizzard if they don?t watch their step. They don?t want ****-off every activist group on the planet.

[Dr. B]

You make that sound like it's a bad thing

Frankly, I think that there's nothing wrong with making every
activist group on the planet POed every once in a while. It's kind of
like a test. The ones that get angry and throw a hissy-fit are the
ones that you know to watch out for. The ones that can keep their
cool are the ones your more likely to want to work with. The more
often a group gets all angry and demands change "OR ELSE!", the
more you know to watch out for them.

[zeeboid]

GBLT is not for children.

Calm down, California liberals. Perhaps you should read the "Terms of agreement" when signing up for the game, and go hug some other tree.

[mattumanu]

It's like this...

I'm a lutheran with the LCMS. I considered, briefly, starting a guild in WoW for lutherans(and a church in second life) , but decided against it for two reasons: One is because ultimately it would distract from the game (and in second life I'm not even sure a church would be welcome), and secondly having a guild that was "lutheran", even if it was inclusive to anyone who wanted to join, might run afoul of the TOS in both cases.

A few years ago, when online gaming was just gearing up and everyone was touting the "mmprpg", I moved ahead cautiously because I knew how people are. Give someone a chance to denegrate another and they'll take it, it's that simple. And ultimately it distracts from the game and makes people crazy... And makes them quit the game altogether eventually.

I can imagine a number of people on both sides of the issue quiting the game in protest, but exactly what does that accomplish? Fewer people playing and a bunch of hurt feelings.

[chethak007]

How very biased...

I'm sorry, this story is totally biased toward a liberal agenda... I myself AM a liberal, and frankly, I could care less about anyone's lifestyle... but I *am* a father of a 1 year old daughter...

My 2 nephews play this game... their father allows them to play and I even encourage it, they've been doing better in school, working on their reading and such so they can do their quests, which we help them with a bit, but they are constantly asking questions like... what is "LoL"? what is "RoFL"?

& they get told by one of us...

If they ask me what GLBT is I'd tell them, "Great Lettuce Bacon Tomato"... it's a sandwich guild.

Why?

Simple... THIS HAS NO PLACE IN A GAME DESIGNED NOT JUST FOR ADULTS BUT FOR CHILDREN!

This is a game about killing monsters, doing quests, working your way up, trying to hone your skills at PLAYING the game & become the best your character can be... some people (adults and children) even take the lessons learned from this & apply it to their real life, working their way up & doing better in their lives while using World of Warcraft as a great outlet to blow off some steam, have some recreation time with friends, family, and their spouses perhaps.

This game has a very real value and I can understand if our GLBT friends want to play & not be harassed... in that case I agree with Blizzard, and the person that mentioned the military's policy... if you don't want to be harassed, don't ask, don't tell.

If you want to play a game about dating, sexual preferences, social agenda, or anything pertaining to that, might I suggest IMVU (http://www.imvu.com/) or something similar... it's a 3d Avatar Chat Instant Messenger where you dress up your character & get points for talking & going on mock dates... You can even get better stuff if you go on enough dates (that's right you upgrade from the dates & the chatting!) How much closer to dating could it be!

Personally, I see no reason for anyone playing WoW to bring up a sexual agenda... anyone doing so is probably trying to pick someone up or something... it's bad enough kids are exposed to this on online forums like Yahoo Chat & other places (Have you watched DateLine NBC, To Catch a Predator?) without them being exposed to lurking threats in video games where they are supposed to be free to enjoy themselves in a safe game environment & should be free of such real life harassments...

If you'd like to take a look at THAT program lemme just drop a link...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10912603/

There's safety issues to be thought about, we're already facing problems with online predators without giving online predators a forum to poison young minds and maybe get their hands on their next victim in a "child-safe video game environment".

That's my 2 cents, you can flame it all you want, but if you don't realize there's REAL HUMAN MONSTERS out there in the world then you're delusional as to the nature of reality.

[chethak007]

hmm...

I'd like to point out that I'm not against the existence of said guild or against them having a good time in game, I just don't particularly care for the idea of anybody's children questioning them & being told it's okay, it's an acceptable lifestyle, et cetera...

The truth is that's something that parents should teach children... my daughter has a gay grandmother and I have nothing against her, I actually like her quite a bit... but if you think that I'm going to tell my daughter that that is "normal" or a "perfectly acceptable lifestyle" than you're sorely mistaken.

I wouldn't lie to her.

It's not normal, or a perfectly acceptable lifestyle, because it is outside the norm, and isn't accepted...

I will say it IS natural though.

I would tell her that gay people make a decision that they are more attracted to people of the same sex than the opposite sex, and that they are aware, when they come to this decision, that they WILL BE EXPOSED AND SUBJECTED... to ridicule... to harassment, to many of the terrible things that intolerant people put others through... it is the nature of the world. I don't have to like the nature of the world to know the truth of reality... Humans are not tolerant of things they consider outside the norm, even if animals are...

We have higher thinking to make decisions as to what is right or wrong... to teach our children what is right or wrong... I don't think ANYTHING is WRONG, with the exception of open hatred or religious persecution.

So, since the majority of people obviously DO BELIEVE that it is wrong to be gay, that would be why this is an issue...

It *is* natural...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=410123&in_page_id=1770

Check that link out... It really IS natural, and I don't think anybody should be persecuted for it... but if you read it...

"The sexual urge is strong in all animals. ... It's a part of life, it's fun to have sex," Soeli said of the reasons for homosexuality or bisexuality among animals.

Direct quote...

So why would gay people need to come out in a video game with their own guild except if they're "trying to recruit."

Sorry, I don't want them recruiting in a video game for kids. Please, go to a March, be an activist somewhere else, leave your recruiting outside the game... I don't want a GLBT recruiting my nephews & flaunting their behavior on impressionable young minds.

And that comment on real life monsters... I meant it there really are... just another reason this kind of thing has no place in a game... if you're hunting with people that won't accept you as who you are without clarification on your sexual orientation, then perhaps you need to find new people to group with in game... leave your recruiting outside public chat... maybe make a new website eh? GLBT-WoW-Guilds.com?

Flame on.