Comments on: Getting girls in the game

At second Women's Game Conference, video game executives discuss how to get women involved.

[J_Satch]

I can see it now...

...Wolfenstein: Enemy Makeover

LOL

[J_Satch]

I can see it now...

...Wolfenstein: Enemy Makeover

LOL

[Believe Brain]

Survey says

?. Girls might play video game once a while ? curiosity only. Girls have more interesting thing to do. One of them is get ready for college (more girl than boy in college nowadays).

As for the adults, women are taking care of most of daily affairs ? family and business, while men are playing games ? including video games.

Women are not childish ? that is the bottom line of gender.

[Believe Brain]

Survey says

?. Girls might play video game once a while ? curiosity only. Girls have more interesting thing to do. One of them is get ready for college (more girl than boy in college nowadays).

As for the adults, women are taking care of most of daily affairs ? family and business, while men are playing games ? including video games.

Women are not childish ? that is the bottom line of gender.

[DaClyde]

Maybe they're just not console gamers..

...the majority if players you find on sites like Pogo and Uproar are women. Maybe the industry is just too blinded by its own focus on the console market to remember that people play games on other platforms. You can't chat or do your finances on a Playstation and swap screens between Quickbooks and hgtv.com and a game of Canasta with a chatroom full of friends.

[DaClyde]

Maybe they're just not console gamers..

...the majority if players you find on sites like Pogo and Uproar are women. Maybe the industry is just too blinded by its own focus on the console market to remember that people play games on other platforms. You can't chat or do your finances on a Playstation and swap screens between Quickbooks and hgtv.com and a game of Canasta with a chatroom full of friends.

no interest, is that wrong?

I don't get why people are worked up over this. Women don't like video games. My wife can play a decent Halo, but she frankly doesn't prefer to spend her time that way. My sister-in-law likes starwars battlefront but not enough to buy a game system for herself. Women just don't put videogames on their list of hobbies they'd devote time or money too. Why does this bother people so much? Should women be forcing men to change their hobbies?

no interest, is that wrong?

I don't get why people are worked up over this. Women don't like video games. My wife can play a decent Halo, but she frankly doesn't prefer to spend her time that way. My sister-in-law likes starwars battlefront but not enough to buy a game system for herself. Women just don't put videogames on their list of hobbies they'd devote time or money too. Why does this bother people so much? Should women be forcing men to change their hobbies?

[Far Star]

Missing the point

3 of the 4 (at this time) posters got the article entirely wrong. It's less about women playing video games and more about women DESIGNING games and programming games. What part of the following is hard to understand:

"In fact, 88.5 percent of video game makers are male, according to the International Game Developers Association."

Game makers, people, NOT players.

As for the one person that got it, cute joke and a statement of the myopic view of many men in game design.

The problem is well stated in the article. Women look at the hours and the freedom in the game design business and say 'screw that' because it's almost like indentured servitude, with no guaranteed employment past the current project. The other problem is that games are viewed by most women as a distraction and/or a hobby and most prefer to work on something that feels more permanent (career, family, etc). It's only a rare few that see programming for more than something transient. Of course add to that the topics of most games (sports, shooting, sex, etc.) are more male oriented it makes women even less interested in contributing.

But like one poster said, why worry? The game industry is what it is. The games it makes are played mostly by guys and guys that know what other guys want in a game. Sure a woman programmer can do the job just as good but they can't think like a guy and that's what you need when game designing. That's not a rip on women, it's just the way it is. There is no reason to force women in to the industry or even to make it easier. A good programmer is a good programmer regardless of sex and designers are proven by the profits a game makes. If women feel they want to get into the game all they have to do is prove they are as good as or better than those around them and can take the same heat just like the rest of us.

[Far Star]

Missing the point

3 of the 4 (at this time) posters got the article entirely wrong. It's less about women playing video games and more about women DESIGNING games and programming games. What part of the following is hard to understand:

"In fact, 88.5 percent of video game makers are male, according to the International Game Developers Association."

Game makers, people, NOT players.

As for the one person that got it, cute joke and a statement of the myopic view of many men in game design.

The problem is well stated in the article. Women look at the hours and the freedom in the game design business and say 'screw that' because it's almost like indentured servitude, with no guaranteed employment past the current project. The other problem is that games are viewed by most women as a distraction and/or a hobby and most prefer to work on something that feels more permanent (career, family, etc). It's only a rare few that see programming for more than something transient. Of course add to that the topics of most games (sports, shooting, sex, etc.) are more male oriented it makes women even less interested in contributing.

But like one poster said, why worry? The game industry is what it is. The games it makes are played mostly by guys and guys that know what other guys want in a game. Sure a woman programmer can do the job just as good but they can't think like a guy and that's what you need when game designing. That's not a rip on women, it's just the way it is. There is no reason to force women in to the industry or even to make it easier. A good programmer is a good programmer regardless of sex and designers are proven by the profits a game makes. If women feel they want to get into the game all they have to do is prove they are as good as or better than those around them and can take the same heat just like the rest of us.

[shortyness]

The Real Reason for the next business model

I'm a seasonal game developer/designer, so I know a bit about the game industry. The real reason why game companies want to hire women is to create games that appeal to women, the same as how clothing and handbags appeal to them while they are shopping. If you compare over the spending power of a man and a woman, you will find that women spend more than men do. Men like to buy huge electronics and fancy cars, but women buy things almost on a daily basis; mostly on beauty products that can cost hundreds of dollars.

Game company executives need another business model other than create tons of violent video games. They basically want a piece of the cash cow from the SIMS game. So it is their assumption to hire women as a guide to create a SIMS type game. Understand that most executives only have an MBA with zero techological and psychological hands on experience within the entertainment field. Most don't even play the games their employees make. So you wonder how would an executive know what is good for the consumer. He doesn't. He compares his income statement with a competitors', and flips a quarter and saids here's the problem. This is one of the reasons why many game companies go under, and is because management is inexperienced.
Because of this type of management still exists is why the long hours are imposed on the game industry. Executives/management don't know and can't make up their minds on what products to enhance which leads to game delays. No woman wants this type of job.

Also executives keep on stating how gameplay is more important than graphics, and the only reason they state that constantly is because of the success of Grand Theft Auto series. Don't you find it strange how they still update their graphics rather than improve their gameplay. The business strategy is to encourage their competitors to invest time and money into gameplay so they can sit back and see the results. This saves them time and money on R&D.

So the next time you hear some game company executive/manager say that some piece in games is king, you now know they have no idea what their talking about and that they just want their competitors to do the dirty work for them.

[Stez]

The thing is...

Handbags? Makeup? Give me a break! No wonder women (like myself) are hesitant to get into the industry, when we're met with comments that equate to "wouldn't you rather be having babies, or shopping?"

No, I wouldn't. I would like to be making games. First person shooters. MMORPGs. And more.

I was a huge fan of the Delta Force series until it went sideways. I am a hardcore MOHAA player. I love anything with machine guns, nades, RPGs, and getting to pistol whip my opponent to death is a hoot. The Sims is okay, but it lacks guns to make it like crack for me.

I don't predominantly game on a console because I prefer my PC/lappy and being able to hop on/off messengers, email, VOIP, webpages, etc. Consoles suck.

Building a PC that's more like a console, or a console that's more like a PC - that's where gaming needs to go.

But hell... if the industry really wants to look at girl gamers and designers like me (and there are A LOT, way more than you think), you first have to start by looking at yourselves.

[shortyness]

The Real Reason for the next business model

I'm a seasonal game developer/designer, so I know a bit about the game industry. The real reason why game companies want to hire women is to create games that appeal to women, the same as how clothing and handbags appeal to them while they are shopping. If you compare over the spending power of a man and a woman, you will find that women spend more than men do. Men like to buy huge electronics and fancy cars, but women buy things almost on a daily basis; mostly on beauty products that can cost hundreds of dollars.

Game company executives need another business model other than create tons of violent video games. They basically want a piece of the cash cow from the SIMS game. So it is their assumption to hire women as a guide to create a SIMS type game. Understand that most executives only have an MBA with zero techological and psychological hands on experience within the entertainment field. Most don't even play the games their employees make. So you wonder how would an executive know what is good for the consumer. He doesn't. He compares his income statement with a competitors', and flips a quarter and saids here's the problem. This is one of the reasons why many game companies go under, and is because management is inexperienced.
Because of this type of management still exists is why the long hours are imposed on the game industry. Executives/management don't know and can't make up their minds on what products to enhance which leads to game delays. No woman wants this type of job.

Also executives keep on stating how gameplay is more important than graphics, and the only reason they state that constantly is because of the success of Grand Theft Auto series. Don't you find it strange how they still update their graphics rather than improve their gameplay. The business strategy is to encourage their competitors to invest time and money into gameplay so they can sit back and see the results. This saves them time and money on R&D.

So the next time you hear some game company executive/manager say that some piece in games is king, you now know they have no idea what their talking about and that they just want their competitors to do the dirty work for them.

[Stez]

The thing is...

Handbags? Makeup? Give me a break! No wonder women (like myself) are hesitant to get into the industry, when we're met with comments that equate to "wouldn't you rather be having babies, or shopping?"

No, I wouldn't. I would like to be making games. First person shooters. MMORPGs. And more.

I was a huge fan of the Delta Force series until it went sideways. I am a hardcore MOHAA player. I love anything with machine guns, nades, RPGs, and getting to pistol whip my opponent to death is a hoot. The Sims is okay, but it lacks guns to make it like crack for me.

I don't predominantly game on a console because I prefer my PC/lappy and being able to hop on/off messengers, email, VOIP, webpages, etc. Consoles suck.

Building a PC that's more like a console, or a console that's more like a PC - that's where gaming needs to go.

But hell... if the industry really wants to look at girl gamers and designers like me (and there are A LOT, way more than you think), you first have to start by looking at yourselves.

[Xenovic]

The chicken, the egg, or something else...

As stated in the previous comment, this article talks a lot about the small number of women in the game industry. But that number is not actually the concern of the game industry. As with most industries, the game industry is concerned with the bottom line.

Game companies hope that by having more female designers, and developers, more games will be developed that appeals to both genders. There is a fundamental problem with this logic however. The problem is not with the design of the game, but with the marketing and sale of the game to women.

Having worked in the toy industry for years, I observed an interesting, albeit not surprising phenomenon. When parents and grandparents do their Christmas shopping little Johnny gets a game and little Susie gets a doll, or a dress up kit, or something that is decidedly more feminine. This is not a negative statement, but a telling one.

The game industry needs to focus on changing the public's views on video games, not on hiring more female designers (while I don't discredit this as a way to achieve the same result). Controversy over games like Grand Theft Auto, and Mortal Combat before that, has led the public to view games as an exercise in frivolity.

Games that have breached the gender gap have included web based online games with chat rooms (which cater to a female dominated trait, the ability to build and maintain a community) and those that involve design and creativity, like The Sims. A noticeable portion of the Massively Multiplayer Online (MMORGPs) games (also a community based game) is shifting to women as well.

The target of the industry needs to change. Look at most of the video game ads on television these days. Who is holding the controller? The 20something guys sitting on the couch. These are the same guys in the beer commercials watching football or using some sleazy pickup line at the bar.

Now, take the same commercial for say, Gran Tourismo. Sitting on the couch is a 20something woman and her friend. They race one another down the track and then make a comment about liking cars. It is not only ok to play console games as a woman; it is ok to like cars too. This may sound too simple, but you get the idea.

Once a shift is made to create more interest for women in playing games, there may be a shift in the number of women who want to work in gaming. Tapping the other half of those 5.5 billion potential customers needs to be the first step.

[ackmondual]

and the converse

I found it funny how my history TA got steamed when mentioning how in every Mr. Clean commercial to date, it's always a woman that's doing the mopping.

That commercial with Japanese girl and Italian lady standing next to their hotrods in anticipation of outburning the competition was certainly unique

[cleo3930]

As a woman who does work in the industry...

it's nice to see another person who truly understands it :)

good points

Alot of good points by Neil. Females don't tend to play games as fervently as Males, they aren't as 'Hard Core'. For many guys, gaming is their lifestyle, is there an equivalent Hardcore Female Gamer? Not really and not any where near the numbers of male gamers. Do female gamers have hundreds of console games? Arcade machines and Pinball machines in their homes? Males DO think that
video games are a worthwile investment of their time and money, Females apparently do not.

The developers of video games are even more hardcore than the biggest game consumers, so naturally there isn't a very large base of female talent to go around. Guess what, it's very hard for most men to make it in the video game industry.

[Xenovic]

The chicken, the egg, or something else...

As stated in the previous comment, this article talks a lot about the small number of women in the game industry. But that number is not actually the concern of the game industry. As with most industries, the game industry is concerned with the bottom line.

Game companies hope that by having more female designers, and developers, more games will be developed that appeals to both genders. There is a fundamental problem with this logic however. The problem is not with the design of the game, but with the marketing and sale of the game to women.

Having worked in the toy industry for years, I observed an interesting, albeit not surprising phenomenon. When parents and grandparents do their Christmas shopping little Johnny gets a game and little Susie gets a doll, or a dress up kit, or something that is decidedly more feminine. This is not a negative statement, but a telling one.

The game industry needs to focus on changing the public's views on video games, not on hiring more female designers (while I don't discredit this as a way to achieve the same result). Controversy over games like Grand Theft Auto, and Mortal Combat before that, has led the public to view games as an exercise in frivolity.

Games that have breached the gender gap have included web based online games with chat rooms (which cater to a female dominated trait, the ability to build and maintain a community) and those that involve design and creativity, like The Sims. A noticeable portion of the Massively Multiplayer Online (MMORGPs) games (also a community based game) is shifting to women as well.

The target of the industry needs to change. Look at most of the video game ads on television these days. Who is holding the controller? The 20something guys sitting on the couch. These are the same guys in the beer commercials watching football or using some sleazy pickup line at the bar.

Now, take the same commercial for say, Gran Tourismo. Sitting on the couch is a 20something woman and her friend. They race one another down the track and then make a comment about liking cars. It is not only ok to play console games as a woman; it is ok to like cars too. This may sound too simple, but you get the idea.

Once a shift is made to create more interest for women in playing games, there may be a shift in the number of women who want to work in gaming. Tapping the other half of those 5.5 billion potential customers needs to be the first step.

[ackmondual]

and the converse

I found it funny how my history TA got steamed when mentioning how in every Mr. Clean commercial to date, it's always a woman that's doing the mopping.

That commercial with Japanese girl and Italian lady standing next to their hotrods in anticipation of outburning the competition was certainly unique

[cleo3930]

As a woman who does work in the industry...

it's nice to see another person who truly understands it :)

good points

Alot of good points by Neil. Females don't tend to play games as fervently as Males, they aren't as 'Hard Core'. For many guys, gaming is their lifestyle, is there an equivalent Hardcore Female Gamer? Not really and not any where near the numbers of male gamers. Do female gamers have hundreds of console games? Arcade machines and Pinball machines in their homes? Males DO think that
video games are a worthwile investment of their time and money, Females apparently do not.

The developers of video games are even more hardcore than the biggest game consumers, so naturally there isn't a very large base of female talent to go around. Guess what, it's very hard for most men to make it in the video game industry.

[King Ava]

Girls still might not play

Girls these days are more interested in looking like models, going shopping, going out with friends, and whatever else they do. Just sitting around and playing games isn't going to help them look like a model they'll think they will get fat from doing that. Girls like going out into the world and doing things with real objects. Not toying around in a fake world where there are limitations.

Even if you have female designer/developers what will they come up with? Extreme Shopping!!!
Girls who aready like games will want to make games that they like, which will most likely attract guys. Sure girls might like the new online gaming chatting part, but not the actual game.

Video Games just don't appeal to MOST girls.

[King Ava]

Girls still might not play

Girls these days are more interested in looking like models, going shopping, going out with friends, and whatever else they do. Just sitting around and playing games isn't going to help them look like a model they'll think they will get fat from doing that. Girls like going out into the world and doing things with real objects. Not toying around in a fake world where there are limitations.

Even if you have female designer/developers what will they come up with? Extreme Shopping!!!
Girls who aready like games will want to make games that they like, which will most likely attract guys. Sure girls might like the new online gaming chatting part, but not the actual game.

Video Games just don't appeal to MOST girls.

[asianmusicfan]

do you think this may be why girls don't play?

I'm a girl gamer. I have tested games for Sony. I admit, I'm not the best at shooter games nor sports games but I kick ass at interactive games and stragey and fight games. I use to never be like this.
Go back to the pre-years when Super Mario Brothers was the hottest thing. Me and my sister would go over to our cousins house to play. What would happen when we play? Our cousins would take away the controller from us after we've been playing(or dying)for 15 minutes and say "You can't play!! You're just a bunch of dumb girls!"
With my first boyfriend it was the same thing. He be playing MGS and say something like "You don't want to play. It's too hard for you."
After hearing this for awhile of course girls get discouraged and dont' want to play. And when we don play we suck because we've never played before, haven't been given the chance to build our skills up yet. And because we "suck" we become easy targets for the guys with skills to shoot at and who wants to play when they get sniper shot right after they have respawned for the 18th time?

of course some girls don't give up(like me!). I love a challenge and started playing instead of sitting there and being bored while my boyfriend played. It is hard to get other girls to play with me and it's hard to get respect when I go into a game store and even though I know more than the employees it takes forever to get them to talk to me.

Want girls to play? Then quit putting us down and give us a chance!!! After3 years I am now a lethal weapon when it comes to snipering ^_^ running with a gun though is another thing....

[Stez]

It's a thing

My boyfriends also took away my video game controllers, too. Some of them wouldn't even let me play sports with them on the court, which was ludicrous because I played raquetball, volleyball, ran, and rode horses. I was always athletic and assertive and loved tactics and strategy. I process things visually, spatially, and have learned how to anticipate position and movement. I'm very good at games because of this, but the sexism gets rough at times.

Having more women in the industry will do more than just churn out games that are more interesting to both sexes, it'll also open the door to more women to just not be afraid to enjoy video games. I can't tell you how many times as a child I got an EZ Bake Oven or a Barbie for my birthday or Christmas, or how many Barbies I cooked in my EZ Bake Oven. My mom finally relented and bought me an Atari, and I spent 5 hours a day on it at age 6. I was programming when I was 9. I LOVED anything that had to do with computers and games, but most boys and later most men I encountered scoffed at the idea. Some girls even thought something was wrong with me to make me want to play with video games and computers.

So, what I'm saying is that a move to bring in women gamers and designers is a good thing. It will open the gaming world up to a win-win-win situation. Girls will show up who have the chops and drive to work, and the industry will reap the profits and gain exposure, and more girls will game. I don't think the industry will lose anything. I think it will be bolstered.

[asianmusicfan]

do you think this may be why girls don't play?

I'm a girl gamer. I have tested games for Sony. I admit, I'm not the best at shooter games nor sports games but I kick ass at interactive games and stragey and fight games. I use to never be like this.
Go back to the pre-years when Super Mario Brothers was the hottest thing. Me and my sister would go over to our cousins house to play. What would happen when we play? Our cousins would take away the controller from us after we've been playing(or dying)for 15 minutes and say "You can't play!! You're just a bunch of dumb girls!"
With my first boyfriend it was the same thing. He be playing MGS and say something like "You don't want to play. It's too hard for you."
After hearing this for awhile of course girls get discouraged and dont' want to play. And when we don play we suck because we've never played before, haven't been given the chance to build our skills up yet. And because we "suck" we become easy targets for the guys with skills to shoot at and who wants to play when they get sniper shot right after they have respawned for the 18th time?

of course some girls don't give up(like me!). I love a challenge and started playing instead of sitting there and being bored while my boyfriend played. It is hard to get other girls to play with me and it's hard to get respect when I go into a game store and even though I know more than the employees it takes forever to get them to talk to me.

Want girls to play? Then quit putting us down and give us a chance!!! After3 years I am now a lethal weapon when it comes to snipering ^_^ running with a gun though is another thing....

[Stez]

It's a thing

My boyfriends also took away my video game controllers, too. Some of them wouldn't even let me play sports with them on the court, which was ludicrous because I played raquetball, volleyball, ran, and rode horses. I was always athletic and assertive and loved tactics and strategy. I process things visually, spatially, and have learned how to anticipate position and movement. I'm very good at games because of this, but the sexism gets rough at times.

Having more women in the industry will do more than just churn out games that are more interesting to both sexes, it'll also open the door to more women to just not be afraid to enjoy video games. I can't tell you how many times as a child I got an EZ Bake Oven or a Barbie for my birthday or Christmas, or how many Barbies I cooked in my EZ Bake Oven. My mom finally relented and bought me an Atari, and I spent 5 hours a day on it at age 6. I was programming when I was 9. I LOVED anything that had to do with computers and games, but most boys and later most men I encountered scoffed at the idea. Some girls even thought something was wrong with me to make me want to play with video games and computers.

So, what I'm saying is that a move to bring in women gamers and designers is a good thing. It will open the gaming world up to a win-win-win situation. Girls will show up who have the chops and drive to work, and the industry will reap the profits and gain exposure, and more girls will game. I don't think the industry will lose anything. I think it will be bolstered.

[JtsAGamer2]

The Bottom Line

The bottom line to all of this is... More Females need to design video games! The reason "The Sims" Is still the top selling computer game of all time is because it had male interests and female interests. The reason why video games do not appeal to girls ANYMORE is because the only video games out there anymore are SAME OLE' shooter games! Which is totally awesome... just not for everyone... Bottom line the video game industry desperately needs the help of females and thats all thats to it!
Then we will start to see Guys playing the games they want with there friends and Girls playing the games they want with there friends.
Better YET! We might even see Guys And Girls playing TOGETHER!!! - (OH MY GOODNESS) Wouldnt that be a miracle...
HOW RACIST ARE WE TO THINK VIDEO GAMES ARE FOR MALES ONLY!!!

[volterwd]

was it a guys or girls

who devoloped sims?

[Bill Dautrive]

Women are a race?

"HOW RACIST ARE WE TO THINK VIDEO GAMES ARE FOR MALES ONLY!!!"

Thanks for the laugh :)

[kuiper222]

More females are needed period - not just to design games

It's pretty offensive to think that it takes a female employee to design a game that more women will play. The inventor of the SIMs was male, and he did just fine by designing a mental masterpiece, rather than a violent, pointless first person shooter. It's offensive to me to think that the males in the industry were hired because the industry was writing games for men - much as now female designers are suddenly welcome because they want to attract women players.

Also, concerning women players, all of the single men I know have told me they would LOVE if they could find a gamer girlfriend - which means that YOU GUYS have to foster that behavior. No one can naturally be good at video games if it's their first exposure. If the predominant view is that men exclude women, then men should work to include them. There should be a cashback bonus for every parent or male that purchases a console for a female, etc. That would be a great program that the companies could do to promote woman players. It certainly worked for Philip Morris ;-)

[JtsAGamer2]

The Bottom Line

The bottom line to all of this is... More Females need to design video games! The reason "The Sims" Is still the top selling computer game of all time is because it had male interests and female interests. The reason why video games do not appeal to girls ANYMORE is because the only video games out there anymore are SAME OLE' shooter games! Which is totally awesome... just not for everyone... Bottom line the video game industry desperately needs the help of females and thats all thats to it!
Then we will start to see Guys playing the games they want with there friends and Girls playing the games they want with there friends.
Better YET! We might even see Guys And Girls playing TOGETHER!!! - (OH MY GOODNESS) Wouldnt that be a miracle...
HOW RACIST ARE WE TO THINK VIDEO GAMES ARE FOR MALES ONLY!!!

[volterwd]

was it a guys or girls

who devoloped sims?

[Bill Dautrive]

Women are a race?

"HOW RACIST ARE WE TO THINK VIDEO GAMES ARE FOR MALES ONLY!!!"

Thanks for the laugh :)

[kuiper222]

More females are needed period - not just to design games

It's pretty offensive to think that it takes a female employee to design a game that more women will play. The inventor of the SIMs was male, and he did just fine by designing a mental masterpiece, rather than a violent, pointless first person shooter. It's offensive to me to think that the males in the industry were hired because the industry was writing games for men - much as now female designers are suddenly welcome because they want to attract women players.

Also, concerning women players, all of the single men I know have told me they would LOVE if they could find a gamer girlfriend - which means that YOU GUYS have to foster that behavior. No one can naturally be good at video games if it's their first exposure. If the predominant view is that men exclude women, then men should work to include them. There should be a cashback bonus for every parent or male that purchases a console for a female, etc. That would be a great program that the companies could do to promote woman players. It certainly worked for Philip Morris ;-)