Comments on: Linux PCs: Customer service or lip service?

Despite much hype over Linux, finding a new home PC running the open-source operating system is no easy task.
Photos: Looking for a Linux PC

[Rolndubbs]

Yeah....

Windows is only for games, thats why so many companies use windows, must be to play games... The common misconception of windows only being good for games probably stems from the fact that other OS users wish they had access to the games that are available on a windows pc IN ADDITION to all the productivity software.

[Earl Benser]

I must be out of step...

... since I have absolutely no interest in games. I just was a
computer platform, OS, and applications which do the things I
want, the way I want, when I want, fast and reliably.

And that's what I have....

[Rolndubbs]

Oops

posted to wrong place

[R Me]

*nix desktop == joke

Linux is for geeks. period. It is not for general public consumption and most likely will not be for a few years yet, if at all. The average computer user would give up trying to install linux and if they did manage to get a stable install what would they do with it? KDE is not ready for the average Joe to use and Gnome would make a windows user bolt for the safety of Billys world. Gimp would make a proficient PhotoShop user puke and what else is there to install that would sufice to replace a windows users tools? OpenOffice, no way! And lets not even talk about getting an average win user to use any file grabbing/installation tools from a linux distro. Kpackage, apt/get, YaST, not a chance, let alone make... Read and grep a man page, ha-ha.

Linux is for geeks only, and real geeks, not wannabes.

[JuggerNaut]

*nix desktop == AWESOME!

Heck, Apple has already defined Unix (Mac OS X) on the desktop
followed closely by some very awesome Linux distros keeping a
grand pace in innovation, creativity and user experience. Both
KDE and Gnome have matured enough that the average
computer user can get along quite nicely without any fuss.
Actually I introduced (and migrated) a friend to Ubuntu Linux
recently and he freakin' loves Gnome and how it treats the
desktop. I have yet to get a call about how to do stuff on it, he's
caught on very quickly (coming from the Windows world).

Linux has moved beyond the geek and is making headway in joe
user land ;-)

To see for yourself......

Both Simply Mepis and Ubuntu are live Linux distros. Which means that one can place the CD into the player, turn on the machine and they will boot a live Linux system for you to play with. Both run from the CD disk and will not load anything onto your hard drive.
This way one can see if the Linux OS will indeed work on one's machine. If it works for you, then you can click on the install icon and it will install your choice of an dual boot Linux/Winblows system or an Linux only system.
Simply Mepis uses KDE and Ubuntu uses Gnome for the desk top. Give it a try and see what Vista will be using. Need more info to get started?
www.google.com/linux and have fun again.

[R Me]

yea, right

I've been using linux since debian hamm distro and have used Caldera, RedHat, Mandrake, Rock and now currently run SuSe. I dont need any help, thanks.

As for Unbuno, I got a stack of disks from them and handed them out at our monthly computer users group meeting(win) and the first thing asked was is this porn? The cover looked like a three person circle jerk. The response after sticking them in the puters at the center was ugh! what is this thing.
I had my laptop(SuSe) on the big screen and for the most part Kmail was called junk. Sylpheed was well liked but after a show of how it was installed there were many no thanks. Koffice was labeled crap by MSoffice users(this is by those who use it daily). GIMP was by one user actually called pukey and other photoshop users were lost. InDesign users actually were apalled that anyone would professional try to use InkScape.

Neither of you wanted to address the issue of file installation. Wonder why?

I stick by by my guns, not ready for prime time. yet.

[publicstatic]

It is about the way of looking for help

Linux Desktop adoption is not only about how good your distro is or how rich the features you have. It is more about the way that people look for help.

When people encounter a technical problem, usually they will
1) ask friends, co-worker, family.
2) If still not solved, call helpdesk (company user) or product support (if you pay for it)
3) If still not solved, read manual or search forum.
4) If still not solved, try to figure out by yourself.
5) Last resort: If many others have the same problem, it is not my problem. At least I don't feel so bad. (Like windows security issue)

That is what a "regular user" (most are tech naive) really does. When calling for help, they turn to people they know rather than stranger, offical channel, manual, or even researching. The more a platform being used, the more people you can ask for. Then your problem can be solved much sooner.

Today windows dominates 94+% market, it is a up-hill battle for linux. If the situation is reverse today (Linux Desktop is 94+%), windows would face the same difficulty to win the game. Unfortunately, such domination seems good to end user in short turn, but might be harmful to the whole industry at the long run.

Users always have good memory of hard time. Ask them how to feel about a platform, they gonna tell you the problem they have rather than the advantage they got. Especially, single hopeless issue is more unacceptable than a few solvable problems.

Comparing with Windows user, Linux user face more "hopeless" issue like:
* No driver for my device.
* That App doesn't run on linux.
* My data format not compatible with others.
* No idea about how to recompile things.
more..

Hardware vendor and ISV certainly put Windows as the first one in support list, understandable. Many web sites require IE because it's ActiveX bits can't work elsewhere. These also help to keep Windows in domination.

So how to make Linux Desktop widely used like windows....it is hard. If it is worthy to do, maybe we can..
* Education: Let student say "all my classmates use linux"
* Goverment: push standard/opensource compliant
* Enterprise: for cost and security issue, let's use Linux. Leave windows at home.
* Home user: .....if all above happened...

[nuthead01]

Why is it....

Why is it so hard for you to understand that some people just don't want Windows anymore? Some people actually LIKE not having to worry about things like being afraid to open an email and having to remove spyware. If you ever tried Linux (OBJECTIVELY), you'd be surprised at how well it works and you might even be able to fathom why people WANT to get the M$ crap off their computer.

[Captain_Spock]

C/NET NEWS Needs to....

... creative and innovative by perhaps adding additional "background" color bands (different ones) for readers of its articles to distinguish quickly the differences between earlier posts and the most recent ones rather than having to scroll up and down the entire page to make these determinations!

[Rex1Ballard]

Look for "Linux Friendly" vs "Windows Only"

One of the interesting patterns that seems to be developing is that many users are looking for hybrid solutions. Users want to use Crossover, VMWare, Bochs, or Xen, all of which have the ability to run Windows clients or applications on a Linux host. There is only one catch. You still need a Windows license to do so. In many cases, you are only using the DLL, but you are using a DLL which requires that the machine be licensed to run Windows.

The OEMs purchase Windows licenses in bulk. In fact, due to discount schedules, it's often cheaper to by about 20-30% more Windows licenses than computers actually sold, because the discount drops so dramatically. This is what I call "Cliff tiered pricing".

If I knew I was going to sell 10 million computers, and Microsoft told me that if I buy less than 10 million they will cost $50/copy but if I buy 12 million they will cost $30/copy, the simple math is that I can buy 12 million copies for $360 million, instead of paying %500 million for 10 million copies. This was a stipulation agreed to in both the bundling suit of 1993 and the antitrust suit settled in 2002.

This actually works to the OEM's favor. Since he saves no money by selling you a machine without Windows, he might as well throw it in.

The flip side of the coin - Microsoft provided incentives and discounts to OEMs who created machines which would run "Windows Only", they feature Video graphics chips that are DirectX oriented, and in many cases the hardware maker has agreed not to publish drivers for Linux and to sue anyone who tries to publish drivers.

The irony is that the sales of these "Windows Only" machines has fallen far below expectations. In many cases, prices have been slashed by more than half and most are being sold at a substantial loss at "Clearance" prices.

On the other hand, "Linux Friendly" machines have video cards that are OpenGL oriented such as the FireGL graphics card, they also use WiFi cards which are supported by Linux, and all of the other components have Linux drivers.

Customers considering the purchase of a Windows machine with the intent of converting it to Linux can "test drive" the hardware by installing a Live-CD such as Knoppix, Ubuntu, or SuSE Live-CD, and can find out in a few minutes whether the PC will run Linux nicely or not.

Nearly all AMD-64 machines are Linux Friendly, and in fact, don't run Windows as well as they run Linux. These machine are selling at a premium price - yes they are shipped with Windows preinstalled, but they are very clearly designed to run Linux.

Roughly 100 million PCs were sold last year according to IDC reports.

According to browser surveys, Linux has increased it's user base by over 50 million users world-wide. This means that Linux "sales" are now roughly 30% of the market. If you consider the possibility that these Linux boxes are replacing Windows boxes, Linux is now almost 1/2 the market.

Windows still has 10 years of previous sales, between 800 million and 1 billion machines, depending on the estimates. And Linux only has about 14% to 17% of the total installed user base, based on most estimates. Still, with Linux shipments incleasing at 40%/year in it's bad years, Linux could be outselling Microsoft in terms of "Net Shipments" within 2 years.

We can also watch the popularity of FireFox, OpenOffice, and other Open Source applications to see that there is a pattern emerging. Open Source is now widely accepted, as are the standards they promote. Linux is sourcing those standards.

The writing is on the wall, Microsoft's days as a monopoly may be numbered.

Rex Ballard

[heart4uganda.org]

Thank you!

Precisely!

Why would I spend more money to buy a linux box in stead of buying a cheap pe-installed-windowze box?
Obviousely this is pure non-sence!
Mr Future Guy should think a little. Have you seen the talk-back and oposition on that "Desktop Linux a vehicle for pirating Windows" article?

[Draciron]

Linux Desktops ROCK!

I do things on my Linux destktop that just will not happen on a windoze machine. I spend my time doing stuff not getting to the stuff I want to do. Working in Windoze on the rare occasions I am forced to sit down at one is like trying to use a hammer for surgery. I do things my way in Linux which includes having everything I use on a reguler basis open at any given time. I just click over to the desktop for say database work and I have my connections, common queries, GUIs, tech docs, all open and at my fingertips. Usually I can complete my task before the average Windows user can tediously open up the appropriate application(s) and even start work.

I reboot once every 6-12 months when I upgrade my kernel/Distro or if the power goes out. I have never had a virus or a worm on my system. I paid a grand total of $100 for software over the last 3 years. One was an IDE which supported several languages, the other was CrossOver office so I could run an occasional windoze app like media player. I write code, web pages, edit the music I record, browse the web, play games, play music, work as a DBA and system admin, and thousands of other tasks on my machine. I spend one tenth the time administering my machine than I did when I ran Windoze. I spend 1/1000th the cost and have 100 times more quality software availible.

The only reason I could possibly see for running a windoze desktop any more would be if you were really into state of the art games, most of which still cater to windows, you really like watching hourglasses and rebooting your machine for no reason at all, or if you run one of the few apps that do not have a Linux equiv that is equal or better.

[Deo Favente]

what windows cost me

You people probably hear this all the time but this is what windows cost me, for my laptop i use to transfer my files to and from work:
*windows vista trial / beta thing that expired a few months after purchase, which i got with my computer (nobody ever told me why the hell this was): $100
*the actual windows vista ultimate replacement copy: $400
*Anti-virus software: $50
*MS Access, Excel, Outlook, Powerpoint, Publisher, and Word (with some fancy words and labels like 'pro' or 'ultimate' or something: $1200
*guy to help install and configure all this: $40
Total cost: $1790