Comments on: Mac Mini a maxi deal? Depends what you want
When it comes to Apple Computer's new Mac Mini, beauty is in the eye of the person holding the wallet. 
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For those of us who have come to be warry of Windows this is a good chance to see of the grass on the other side is any better. At best Apple will convert a few who will buy better Mac's. At worst Apple will firmly convince Windows and Linux users that the Mac and OS X platform are not worth the price tag or the effort.
Luckily for me, as a web and software developer and IT pro, this gives me a chance to see how a mac works for web pages and also gives me a chance to see how it integrates into my work enviroment.
Price is always an issue with me, but I have spent more on less so I don't really see the value of a price comparison with the PC. Compare features, hardware, software, and ease of use then compare the price. I'm not trying to side with the Mac guys here, but give me real world comparisons based on the usabiliy of Mac vs Windows vs Linux vs x86. Then we will talk price. What is a hundred dollars if the hardware and software are easy to use and maintain, but still give you options and power.
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More talk at http://loudboard.com
For those of us who have come to be warry of Windows this is a good chance to see of the grass on the other side is any better. At best Apple will convert a few who will buy better Mac's. At worst Apple will firmly convince Windows and Linux users that the Mac and OS X platform are not worth the price tag or the effort.
Luckily for me, as a web and software developer and IT pro, this gives me a chance to see how a mac works for web pages and also gives me a chance to see how it integrates into my work enviroment.
Price is always an issue with me, but I have spent more on less so I don't really see the value of a price comparison with the PC. Compare features, hardware, software, and ease of use then compare the price. I'm not trying to side with the Mac guys here, but give me real world comparisons based on the usabiliy of Mac vs Windows vs Linux vs x86. Then we will talk price. What is a hundred dollars if the hardware and software are easy to use and maintain, but still give you options and power.
-----------------------
More talk at http://loudboard.com
The best use for the Mac Mini is to convert existing PC users who already own a monitor and USB keyboard. Simply purchasing the $499 Mac Mini (although you should spend the $75 and upgrade to 512MBs of RAM) gets you into the Mac platform. This is a much lower entry point than was previously possible. I think this is the real thought behind the Mac Mini (or where it should end up if Apple does not present it that way now).
I already ordered one to replace an aging PC CPU. I have a great monitor and keyboard that I will keep and use with the Mac Mini - saving money over buying new. I would have previously not considered the Mac platform due to the high entry point - but the Mac Mini has helped resolve that issue.
The best use for the Mac Mini is to convert existing PC users who already own a monitor and USB keyboard. Simply purchasing the $499 Mac Mini (although you should spend the $75 and upgrade to 512MBs of RAM) gets you into the Mac platform. This is a much lower entry point than was previously possible. I think this is the real thought behind the Mac Mini (or where it should end up if Apple does not present it that way now).
I already ordered one to replace an aging PC CPU. I have a great monitor and keyboard that I will keep and use with the Mac Mini - saving money over buying new. I would have previously not considered the Mac platform due to the high entry point - but the Mac Mini has helped resolve that issue.
decision to leave out input devices, because it is something that
shouldn't be overlooked by the consumer when looking to
purchase the Mac Mini. But the overall comparison in PRICE vs
VALUE couldn't be more far off.
Comparing specs with similarly priced PC's isn't only about the
hardware. The value of the included iLife '05 software goes FAR
BEYOND what comes with your enrty level Dell or HP. How many
of these PC's come loaded with HD capable DV movie editing
software comparable to iMovie, if any movie software at all.
What about DVD creation software like iDVD where you can
create fully custumizable menus? Photo organization/editing
programs? I guess you could compare Windows' slide view in
the explorer, but can it handle 25,000 JPEG and RAW images
that can be found in an instant like in iPhoto? And let's not
forgot the latest entry in the the iLife family: Garageband.
Apple's consumer level music recording/creation application
that incorporates technologies from the industry standard in the
music business, PRO LOGIC.
Looking at this list of iLife apps that costs only $79 for current
mac owners and is INCLUDED FREE with any new mac...MAC MINI
included, how much money would one have to spend to get
these kinds of capabilites onto their entry level PC's? It seems it
would be about $100 for movie editing software ($50 for a really
crappy app), $50-100 for DVD software, $50 for adobe's photo
album software, and another $150 at the least to get something
that can even begin to have some of the features and capabilites
of Garageband.
So it seems that the entry level PC... when compared to the Mac
Mini, is lacking a $400+ value in industry leading consumer
software that allows a person to have a use for their new
purchase other than web surfing and word processing. And be
sure to check the box for another $50 for antivirus software that
will be using up your precious 256 MB of memory, something
that Mac OSX doesn't need not because of being "far less
susceptible," but being virtually unsusceptible to viruses and
spyware.
I guess maybe next time you make the comparison between Mac
Mini and your Dell, you should include the $450+ you'll need to
shell out for software, while the Mac may need $50-75 for a
decent mouse and keyboard. VALUE isn't equal to PRICE!!!
- Doesn't edit video
- Doesn't create DVDs
- Doesn't produce music
- Doesn't have 25,000 digital photos
- Doesn't own a video camera, let alone a High Definition model ("Starting at $3,699.99" per SonyStyle.com)
From a performance perspective, neither the Mac mini nor a discount PC is suitable for disk-intensive tasks like video editing, music production, or serious photo editing. A consumer who wanted to do such things on a regular basis would invest in a more expensive computer.
Also:
- A DVD playback utility (PowerDVD, WinDVD, etc.) is bundled with any PC that has a DVD drive.
- Casual photo editing software is bundled with any digital camera.
- The features needed for organizing casual photo collections (folders, long filenames, thumbnail view, preview panel, photo viewer, slide show, contact sheet printing, search, metadata support, etc.) are built-in to the Windows XP operating system.
- Selecting the highest security settings in Outlook, Internet Explorer, and the operating system itself, makes anti-virus software unnecessary. A 3-step tutorial and a 2-minute video from Microsoft explain how to do these things. People who report virus and spyware problems are using permissive security settings, against Microsoft's advice.
- Anit-virus software, for those who want it, does not consume significant system resources. The claim that a small utility program "will be using up your precious 256 MB of memory" reflects a fundamental lack of understanding.
- Casual video editing software is available free of charge from Microsoft.
It is true that a PC user will have to work with software components from different vendors, and that the "look and feel" will vary from component to component. A consistent "look and feel" can add value, but it isn't the whole picture. The basic value of a software bundle comes from what a person can do -- and actually does do -- with the software.
I am the first to agree that the Mac mini is a worthy competitor for discount PCs and that iLife is a good software suite. However, I am not prepared to exaggerate the commercial value of iLife. In the end, only the market share figures will tell.
Paul Marcelin-Sampson
Santa Cruz, California, USA
P.S.: Now I will point out a few issues. This is just for fun, because the target consumer doesn't have these needs in the first place.
- The original poster seems to be obsessed with audio production. The Mac mini does not include an audio input facility. Interestingly, the $450 Dell Dimension 2400 and all other discount PCs built around the Intel 845 motherboard, do have audio input. Audio input options for the Mac mini take the form of USB or FireWire peripherals. A cheap PC, on the other hand, can accommodate a high-end PCI audio card ( try http://www.echoaudio.com/ ).
- The original poster seems to be obsessed with DVD mastering. The Mac mini SuperDrive option ($100, not user-installable) writes DVDs at 4X -- 30 minutes for a 2-hour movie. To keep the Mac mini small, Apple chose a "slim" form factor optical drive, properly intended for laptops. The "Frankenstein machines" that Apple criticizes (http://www.apple.com/macmini/design.html) can accommodate ordinary 5.25-inch optical drives (user-installable). OfficeMax and Staples have sold brand-name 16X DVD+/-RW drives for as little as $50, including software. It will be years before costly "slim" DVD+/-RW drives can record a 2-hour movie in 7 minutes.
- The original poster seems to be obsessed with disk-intensive tasks. The Mac mini has a weak disk subsystem, again because of miniaturization. Like Wal-Mart's $260 PC, the Mac mini ships with a 2.5-inch, 4200 RPM hard drive (http://www.macworld.com/2005/01/news/minioverview/index.php). You can throw that away of course. The fastest replacement is IBM's 60 GB, 7200 RPM Travelstar 7K60 -- a deal at $2.50+ per gigabyte. The largest replacement is a 100 GB, 4200 or 5400 RPM drive, at $1.87+ per gigabyte. A cheap PC like the Dell Dimension 2400 can accommodate several 3.5-inch form factor hard drives. On the open market, a 3.5-inch, 160 GB, 7200 RPM drive sells for about $80 -- 50 cents per gigabyte. The cheap PC user could even add a SATA PCI card or an UltraSCSI 360 PCI card. The Mac mini user is limited to a 2.5-inch internal hard drive, and whatever FireWire/USB 2.0 boxes he wants to add.
decision to leave out input devices, because it is something that
shouldn't be overlooked by the consumer when looking to
purchase the Mac Mini. But the overall comparison in PRICE vs
VALUE couldn't be more far off.
Comparing specs with similarly priced PC's isn't only about the
hardware. The value of the included iLife '05 software goes FAR
BEYOND what comes with your enrty level Dell or HP. How many
of these PC's come loaded with HD capable DV movie editing
software comparable to iMovie, if any movie software at all.
What about DVD creation software like iDVD where you can
create fully custumizable menus? Photo organization/editing
programs? I guess you could compare Windows' slide view in
the explorer, but can it handle 25,000 JPEG and RAW images
that can be found in an instant like in iPhoto? And let's not
forgot the latest entry in the the iLife family: Garageband.
Apple's consumer level music recording/creation application
that incorporates technologies from the industry standard in the
music business, PRO LOGIC.
Looking at this list of iLife apps that costs only $79 for current
mac owners and is INCLUDED FREE with any new mac...MAC MINI
included, how much money would one have to spend to get
these kinds of capabilites onto their entry level PC's? It seems it
would be about $100 for movie editing software ($50 for a really
crappy app), $50-100 for DVD software, $50 for adobe's photo
album software, and another $150 at the least to get something
that can even begin to have some of the features and capabilites
of Garageband.
So it seems that the entry level PC... when compared to the Mac
Mini, is lacking a $400+ value in industry leading consumer
software that allows a person to have a use for their new
purchase other than web surfing and word processing. And be
sure to check the box for another $50 for antivirus software that
will be using up your precious 256 MB of memory, something
that Mac OSX doesn't need not because of being "far less
susceptible," but being virtually unsusceptible to viruses and
spyware.
I guess maybe next time you make the comparison between Mac
Mini and your Dell, you should include the $450+ you'll need to
shell out for software, while the Mac may need $50-75 for a
decent mouse and keyboard. VALUE isn't equal to PRICE!!!
- Doesn't edit video
- Doesn't create DVDs
- Doesn't produce music
- Doesn't have 25,000 digital photos
- Doesn't own a video camera, let alone a High Definition model ("Starting at $3,699.99" per SonyStyle.com)
From a performance perspective, neither the Mac mini nor a discount PC is suitable for disk-intensive tasks like video editing, music production, or serious photo editing. A consumer who wanted to do such things on a regular basis would invest in a more expensive computer.
Also:
- A DVD playback utility (PowerDVD, WinDVD, etc.) is bundled with any PC that has a DVD drive.
- Casual photo editing software is bundled with any digital camera.
- The features needed for organizing casual photo collections (folders, long filenames, thumbnail view, preview panel, photo viewer, slide show, contact sheet printing, search, metadata support, etc.) are built-in to the Windows XP operating system.
- Selecting the highest security settings in Outlook, Internet Explorer, and the operating system itself, makes anti-virus software unnecessary. A 3-step tutorial and a 2-minute video from Microsoft explain how to do these things. People who report virus and spyware problems are using permissive security settings, against Microsoft's advice.
- Anit-virus software, for those who want it, does not consume significant system resources. The claim that a small utility program "will be using up your precious 256 MB of memory" reflects a fundamental lack of understanding.
- Casual video editing software is available free of charge from Microsoft.
It is true that a PC user will have to work with software components from different vendors, and that the "look and feel" will vary from component to component. A consistent "look and feel" can add value, but it isn't the whole picture. The basic value of a software bundle comes from what a person can do -- and actually does do -- with the software.
I am the first to agree that the Mac mini is a worthy competitor for discount PCs and that iLife is a good software suite. However, I am not prepared to exaggerate the commercial value of iLife. In the end, only the market share figures will tell.
Paul Marcelin-Sampson
Santa Cruz, California, USA
P.S.: Now I will point out a few issues. This is just for fun, because the target consumer doesn't have these needs in the first place.
- The original poster seems to be obsessed with audio production. The Mac mini does not include an audio input facility. Interestingly, the $450 Dell Dimension 2400 and all other discount PCs built around the Intel 845 motherboard, do have audio input. Audio input options for the Mac mini take the form of USB or FireWire peripherals. A cheap PC, on the other hand, can accommodate a high-end PCI audio card ( try http://www.echoaudio.com/ ).
- The original poster seems to be obsessed with DVD mastering. The Mac mini SuperDrive option ($100, not user-installable) writes DVDs at 4X -- 30 minutes for a 2-hour movie. To keep the Mac mini small, Apple chose a "slim" form factor optical drive, properly intended for laptops. The "Frankenstein machines" that Apple criticizes (http://www.apple.com/macmini/design.html) can accommodate ordinary 5.25-inch optical drives (user-installable). OfficeMax and Staples have sold brand-name 16X DVD+/-RW drives for as little as $50, including software. It will be years before costly "slim" DVD+/-RW drives can record a 2-hour movie in 7 minutes.
- The original poster seems to be obsessed with disk-intensive tasks. The Mac mini has a weak disk subsystem, again because of miniaturization. Like Wal-Mart's $260 PC, the Mac mini ships with a 2.5-inch, 4200 RPM hard drive (http://www.macworld.com/2005/01/news/minioverview/index.php). You can throw that away of course. The fastest replacement is IBM's 60 GB, 7200 RPM Travelstar 7K60 -- a deal at $2.50+ per gigabyte. The largest replacement is a 100 GB, 4200 or 5400 RPM drive, at $1.87+ per gigabyte. A cheap PC like the Dell Dimension 2400 can accommodate several 3.5-inch form factor hard drives. On the open market, a 3.5-inch, 160 GB, 7200 RPM drive sells for about $80 -- 50 cents per gigabyte. The cheap PC user could even add a SATA PCI card or an UltraSCSI 360 PCI card. The Mac mini user is limited to a 2.5-inch internal hard drive, and whatever FireWire/USB 2.0 boxes he wants to add.
your other writers for adhering to good journalistic practices?
Two of your paragraphs are built upon pure hypotheticals ("will
likely argue" and "will also probably argue") and thus can be
defeated as strawmen without effort.
Should I be able to write "Microsoft will likely argue that security
is a software problem and not an OS problem. This is a tough
argument."? No, because I (and no one else) knows what
Microsoft will argue unless they ACTUALLY ARGUE it.
If you can't get comments from Apple (or advocates), then I
don't think you should "make them up" for the purposes of
making your points.
As a fellow Cornellian, I'd expect a bit more from you. ;-)
your other writers for adhering to good journalistic practices?
Two of your paragraphs are built upon pure hypotheticals ("will
likely argue" and "will also probably argue") and thus can be
defeated as strawmen without effort.
Should I be able to write "Microsoft will likely argue that security
is a software problem and not an OS problem. This is a tough
argument."? No, because I (and no one else) knows what
Microsoft will argue unless they ACTUALLY ARGUE it.
If you can't get comments from Apple (or advocates), then I
don't think you should "make them up" for the purposes of
making your points.
As a fellow Cornellian, I'd expect a bit more from you. ;-)
After all the PR from Intel and AMD about the end of the "Megahertz myth" and the importance of bus/cache/memory, it shocks me to find CNet comparing a G4 processor (PPC, RISC) to PC processors (x86, CISC). It also frightens me to find that this review fails to even mention the advantages of MacOSX when compared to OEM Windows installations.
The "value" of this release is not in its ability to compete with Walmart, but that there are thousands of PC users who would have switched to MacOSX a long time ago if it ran on a $500 computer.
After all the PR from Intel and AMD about the end of the "Megahertz myth" and the importance of bus/cache/memory, it shocks me to find CNet comparing a G4 processor (PPC, RISC) to PC processors (x86, CISC). It also frightens me to find that this review fails to even mention the advantages of MacOSX when compared to OEM Windows installations.
The "value" of this release is not in its ability to compete with Walmart, but that there are thousands of PC users who would have switched to MacOSX a long time ago if it ran on a $500 computer.
interested in the Mac. Not a single "Macs suck, I can build a
better PC for $50" comment. I think Apple really struck a chord
among the curious with the Mac Mini. As a 1.5Ghz Powerbook
user, I can say that either of the models, with 512MB RAM, will
perform extremely well for most common tasks, and are
competent for professional content creation.
When OS X came out I wanted to buy a Mac, but like most people here I couldn't justify spending $1500 to $2000 on one just to see if I liked it better than Windows. I will buy one for $499 though.
I suppose you could compare both Apples and PC's, but why bother. Macs do somethings well and PC's do somethings well. If you can buy both.
interested in the Mac. Not a single "Macs suck, I can build a
better PC for $50" comment. I think Apple really struck a chord
among the curious with the Mac Mini. As a 1.5Ghz Powerbook
user, I can say that either of the models, with 512MB RAM, will
perform extremely well for most common tasks, and are
competent for professional content creation.
When OS X came out I wanted to buy a Mac, but like most people here I couldn't justify spending $1500 to $2000 on one just to see if I liked it better than Windows. I will buy one for $499 though.
I suppose you could compare both Apples and PC's, but why bother. Macs do somethings well and PC's do somethings well. If you can buy both.
are that it does not come with a keyboard, mouse, or monitor. It
is repeated several times in the article. But lo and behold, that
is exactly how it is marketed, and intended to be. So why try to
make a point out of it, as if it was some kind of surprise or
buyer beware?!
The other thing that bothers any computer enthusiast with any
knowledge about CPUs, hardware and software. Is the constant
comparison to "similar" PCs. The so-called similar PCs don't
come with as much bundled capabilities as most Macs. Their
CPUs can't even begin to compare against a G4, unless you are
grading solely on clock speed alone. The G4 is a Reduced
Instruction Set CPU (RISC) chip, that can process as much as 8
times the number of computer instructions that are required to
perform on a CISC chip. Those comparable computers use CISC
chips.
The value of the software alone on all current Mac totally blow
away the bargain CPUs.
What about the cost of BlueTooth, Airport, a keyboard and a
mouse. Clearly this box is targeted towards those that already
have a keyboard, mouse and monitor. But if you look at the cost
of BlueTooth, you can get a USB plug for only 39.00. The
Airport is less than a 100 dollars to. And just how expensive is
a keyboard? Does it have to be plated in platinum.
The bottom line is, if you want a Mac with a Keyboard, mouse,
and monitor. Don't buy the mini. It's not for you. You can get a
G5 iMac, built right into the LCD display, and it has a hell of a lot
more horsepower.
keyboard and mouse, and I need to add a 300 GB FireWire drive,
but then I'll have a perfect space saving setup for watching my
Divx movies and for checking my DVD/Laser Disk/VHS library.
The mini-Mac isn't the option for serious Mac operations - my
G4 towers do those. But it is a neat solution to the TV function.
are that it does not come with a keyboard, mouse, or monitor. It
is repeated several times in the article. But lo and behold, that
is exactly how it is marketed, and intended to be. So why try to
make a point out of it, as if it was some kind of surprise or
buyer beware?!
The other thing that bothers any computer enthusiast with any
knowledge about CPUs, hardware and software. Is the constant
comparison to "similar" PCs. The so-called similar PCs don't
come with as much bundled capabilities as most Macs. Their
CPUs can't even begin to compare against a G4, unless you are
grading solely on clock speed alone. The G4 is a Reduced
Instruction Set CPU (RISC) chip, that can process as much as 8
times the number of computer instructions that are required to
perform on a CISC chip. Those comparable computers use CISC
chips.
The value of the software alone on all current Mac totally blow
away the bargain CPUs.
What about the cost of BlueTooth, Airport, a keyboard and a
mouse. Clearly this box is targeted towards those that already
have a keyboard, mouse and monitor. But if you look at the cost
of BlueTooth, you can get a USB plug for only 39.00. The
Airport is less than a 100 dollars to. And just how expensive is
a keyboard? Does it have to be plated in platinum.
The bottom line is, if you want a Mac with a Keyboard, mouse,
and monitor. Don't buy the mini. It's not for you. You can get a
G5 iMac, built right into the LCD display, and it has a hell of a lot
more horsepower.
keyboard and mouse, and I need to add a 300 GB FireWire drive,
but then I'll have a perfect space saving setup for watching my
Divx movies and for checking my DVD/Laser Disk/VHS library.
The mini-Mac isn't the option for serious Mac operations - my
G4 towers do those. But it is a neat solution to the TV function.
computer...admit it! There is no point comparing it to anything
out there, because there is nothing like it. Just like there is
nothing like pretty much anything apple releases. For those of
us who undrstand this, it is a much better world.
That's Apple in a nutshell. Their stuff is so darn good, so undeniably superior in concept and execution to anyone else's stuff that the critics seem overly annoyed by the tiniest of details that they feel it lacks.
Lesson: The harsh criticism is actually a sign of how darn great it is. Nobody spends time knit-picking mediocrity.
computer...admit it! There is no point comparing it to anything
out there, because there is nothing like it. Just like there is
nothing like pretty much anything apple releases. For those of
us who undrstand this, it is a much better world.
That's Apple in a nutshell. Their stuff is so darn good, so undeniably superior in concept and execution to anyone else's stuff that the critics seem overly annoyed by the tiniest of details that they feel it lacks.
Lesson: The harsh criticism is actually a sign of how darn great it is. Nobody spends time knit-picking mediocrity.
First, the ghz speed does not mean the same thing in mac and pc terms. there are countless articles about this. While the mac mini maybe 1.25ghz in mac terms that speed is not bad at all. You can do things you'd need a P4 4ghz to do. Also the OS and surrounding apple software are developed to work optimally on the mac system.
Second, you cannot beat OSX and apple software. There isn't a windows user on the planet who hasn't had a substantial system crash or otherwise in the past 2 weeks. While on the other hand, I have had a mac for over 3 years and have only had 1 system crash, which was over 2.5 years ago. I cannot recall ever having an apple software program ever crashing on me. Although very rarely a non-apple program will crash. These stats are undoubtedly the same across the mac world. I really don't understand why so many pc users have so much contempt for the apple world. Is it so bad to have software that does exactly what it is supposed to do?
Third, Remember you get what you pay for. If you go to dell or emachines you are getting what you pay for with you $400. You are getting a cheap machine, in a big box with windows and very little other software. When you pay for any mac you are getting good techonology, a ton of software that is excellent, design that is unmatched and like i said above the computer and its software work exactly as expected right out of the box without the threat of viruses. Although the G4 is not necessarily cutting edge, I would suspect that the G4 will be phased out after they can figure out a way to deal with the heat that the G5 emits.
Finally, I have heard so many people say they wouldn't buy a mac for 500 or even 300 or whatever because of past expereiences with the mac. Back in the late 90s or even until a few years ago, I would never have considered using a mac. I hated OS 9 and all of it's predecesors. But if you don't think you'd get one for any other reason, just try it bgefore you bash. The macs are great machines.
- For all the bashers
- by January 13, 2005 12:30 PM PST
- There are some things that all the mac haters need to think about and look at before bashing macs anymore.
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
-
- Crashes
- by System Tyrant January 13, 2005 2:31 PM PST
- As bad as it pains me to say this. I use windows XP pro and I haven't had a crash yet on it. I also leave it on anywhere from 7 to 30 days at a time with no ill effect. You maybe asking why I would hate to say this, well, because I don't care for Microsoft. I would rather be using Linux or Mac, but some of my apps are for windows only. Someday if they every convert to Mac or linux I will say by by to windows for any reason I can think of.
- Like this
-
Showing 3 of 5 pages (208 Comments)First, the ghz speed does not mean the same thing in mac and pc terms. there are countless articles about this. While the mac mini maybe 1.25ghz in mac terms that speed is not bad at all. You can do things you'd need a P4 4ghz to do. Also the OS and surrounding apple software are developed to work optimally on the mac system.
Second, you cannot beat OSX and apple software. There isn't a windows user on the planet who hasn't had a substantial system crash or otherwise in the past 2 weeks. While on the other hand, I have had a mac for over 3 years and have only had 1 system crash, which was over 2.5 years ago. I cannot recall ever having an apple software program ever crashing on me. Although very rarely a non-apple program will crash. These stats are undoubtedly the same across the mac world. I really don't understand why so many pc users have so much contempt for the apple world. Is it so bad to have software that does exactly what it is supposed to do?
Third, Remember you get what you pay for. If you go to dell or emachines you are getting what you pay for with you $400. You are getting a cheap machine, in a big box with windows and very little other software. When you pay for any mac you are getting good techonology, a ton of software that is excellent, design that is unmatched and like i said above the computer and its software work exactly as expected right out of the box without the threat of viruses. Although the G4 is not necessarily cutting edge, I would suspect that the G4 will be phased out after they can figure out a way to deal with the heat that the G5 emits.
Finally, I have heard so many people say they wouldn't buy a mac for 500 or even 300 or whatever because of past expereiences with the mac. Back in the late 90s or even until a few years ago, I would never have considered using a mac. I hated OS 9 and all of it's predecesors. But if you don't think you'd get one for any other reason, just try it bgefore you bash. The macs are great machines.