Comments on: Blu-ray outsells HD DVD format in Europe

Data indicates 73 percent of sales were in Blu-ray disc format backed by Sony, 27 precent in HD DVD format backed by Toshiba.

[McPlot]

Sony's numbers

You do know that Sony counts all the Movies it gives out for FREE, as Blu-Ray movie sales don't you? Evey PS3 gets free movies. Sell 1 million PS3's, that makes 2 million Blu-Ray movie sales according to Sony. Now add in the 5 free movies by mail, that is another 5 million Blu-Ray movie sales according to Sony. I would like to see real sales number. Not Sony created ones.

[ctrue]

Same free movie deal with HD DVD

I purchased a Toshiba HD DVD player on Nov 2nd and it too included a mail-in for 5 free HD DVD movies. I also own a PS3 and buy/rent movies for both formats. For most of the movies Blu-Ray seems to be about $5 cheaper per disk and has a larger selection. From a consumer view though, HD DVD players and much cheaper and many of the HD DVD movies have a standard DVD side as well which some people would purchase with the expectation to buy an HD DVD player later on. It may be a long time before this war is over.

[Dr. Planarian]

Well, Duh!

And you don't suppose that Toshiba counts the HD-DVDs that it also gives out free, like the "300" and "The Bourne Identity" I got in the box with my Toshiba HD-A30?

(By the way, one of the most significant differences between Sony's BD-S300 and MUCH more expensive BD-S500 Blu-Ray players involved the higher-end model's ability to playback BD-R/RE disks such as you might burn on your computer. This advantage has been negated by subsequent firmware releases.)

[richto]

Not a valid indication of consumer preference though.

Of a few 3 million PS3 owners, on average about 1 in 3 actually went and bought a BluRay disk, hardly numbers for Sony to write home about.

In the standalone players market (which is where mass market adoiption will come from), HD DVD is massively outselling BluRay.

[jrm125]

that's so odd

You'll need to explain away why the Blu-Ray movie sales are trouncing HD-DVD then. If so few Blu-Ray player owners are buying movies and it's still beating HD-DVD, wait till those other 2 out of 3 PS3 owners start buying.

Facts don't lie...but you do.

[FutureGuy]

ya sure!!!

I am sure sony numbers are "not" cooked up.
Top selling dvd players on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172514/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_e_1_2
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/electronics/560860/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_ce_1_4_last

[richto]

Quite - so HD DVD players are clearly selling far faster than Blu Ray.

Quite - so HD DVD players are clearly selling far faster than Blu Ray.

No one wants another non standard Sony format.

[bobby_brady]

Both formats are for losers!

Only a loser buys the new disc which are infested with new DRM!

[richto]

but

But so are the old disks.

And anyway, its already been totally cracked, so just ignore it.

However the one big remaining issue is that Blu Ray is not region free...

[guerojose]

It's over, Betamax Jr., deal with it

Not a true indication of customer preference? Gimme a break. Hey, I personally don't care if the HD-DVD format sticks around, if people want to continue to spend their money on a crippled and orphaned format. But to not recognize at this point that the "war" is over is simply denial.

And if anyone's considering a purchase, the numbers don't lie. Studio support, manufacturer support, and actual media purchases by real live customers are all you need to consider, and are all pointing clearly in the direction of Blu-ray. The HD-DVD camp is doing so much spinning that they've got to be dizzy by now.

[richto]

Quoite - and as usual its Sony with the Betamax format.

The war is nearly over - movie studios are already jumping from the Sinking Blu Ray ship to HD DVD.

And now with the announcement that China is to adopt HD DVD the war is basically won.

Sure the tiny attach rate from the few million PS3 are going to help Blu Ray disc sales figures for a bit, but the mass market is standalone players and the sales of those are overwhelmingly in favour of HD DVD.

[Dr. Planarian]

The HD-A3

I own both formats, with a Toshiba HD-A30 and the Sony BD-S300. (Buying both was MUCH cheaper than getting the LG that plays both formats.)

Amazon shows large numbers purchases of the Toshiba HD-A3, a genuinely crippled and wholly obsolete machine that is available at very low prices. It is incapable of producing 1080p output, and nearly every large-screen TV these days is 1080p.

And it really DOES make a BIG difference in the viewing experience.

The HD-DVD format will eventually die out because of its obvious and insurmountable inferiority to Blu-Ray in every area of quality and data storage, a disadvantage that will only increase over time as so much additional layering is able to be accomplished on the Blu-Ray media. HD-DVD will only survive this Christmas season because of Toshiba and Microsoft's corrupt willingness to bribe movie studios NOT to release their content in Blu-Ray. Eventually, though, Blu-Ray's advantage in available titles and installed base will drive out HD-DVD, and it's just a darn shame that it didn't happen BEFORE I got my new home theater system so I could have avoided buying the Toshiba.

[Hernys]

Games included

But there's something I don't get. Do the ratio numbers include game disks or not? If they do, then the numbers DO lie and the war is quite far from over (or even tipping to one side).

[ANEWMadrid]

Batman does it

Over the Holiday I saw Batman Begins on HDDVD on a Sony LCD 1080p and I must say, that image was super. I have to say if all the newer movies look like that than this technology has a leg to stand on. It's kind of like when you saw your first HD program and new that there was no going back.

[jrm125]

Batman is on BD

Batman is on both formats, so in this case, everyone wins!

[EarthMatters]

Remember the 100,000 $99 HD DVD players sold a couple weeks ago

If all those buyers of the cheap HD DVD players a few weeks back bought so much as one HD DVD movie each, I suspect that next month's industry summary numbers will volley this pissing contest back into the HD DVD court. Then in January Blu-ray will find some fact to tout their being ahead again, and so on and so on, month after month. Anybody getting tired of choosing and defending a side? What we need is a cheap ($199) full-featured combo player to finally put an end to this fiasco once and for all.

[guerojose]

Wrongo!

No, like so many people that buy the spin, you miss the point. Even 100,000 (alleged) HD-DVD players are a drop in the bucket compared to the 6 million plus Blu-ray players out there. And no, I'm sorry, but the HD-DVD camp doesn't get to simply close their eyes and wish away the Blu-ray playing PS3 console.

If these 100,000 customers have so much capability to change the market, then let's see it. Fact: Blu-ray media sales continue to dominate in every region of the world - only in the U.S. is it even a "contest", at a mere 2-to-1 or 3-to-1 ratio in favor of Blu-ray; everywhere else it's a blow-out. And that's just movies - add in the sales of Blu-ray console games, and it's "game over" already.

[arcadefx]

Agreed

I want a combo player.

I have an XBOX 360 w/ HD-DVD player. It's very cool and King Kong in 1080 is just awesome. The bug scene is just creepy in 1080.

I want to see Harry Potter in HD, which will be released in HD-DVD format soon.

I am debating getting a PS3 for Blue-Ray, I don't care for the games, just want both HD formats.

[eurobloke]

Reasons why there are higher Blu-ray sales in Europe

Here are the reasons why Blu-ray are winning in Europe:

1. Very little marketing for HD-DVD in Europe. Film companies say when they advertise films they say, it is available on DVD and Blu-ray, not on HD-DVD.

2. No Xbox 360 HD-DVD addons, the only players available are the Toshiba players. On the other hand, PS3 is available in most major electrical shops and hypermarkets/supermarkets.

3. Most of the major films being sold are from the Blu-ray only and the mixed format camps.

[richto]

But wrong

1. There is piles of marketing. There were loads of adverts for Transformers stating its on HD DVD for instance.

2. What planet are you on. The shops are full of Xbox 360 HD DVD add ons. Not that these will ever be a major impact on market share.

3. Well You must have missed the stupendous amount of Universal releases then. And now Paramount and Dreamworks too of course.


The reason is very simple - lots of PS3s out there that a few of the owners buy Blu Ray disks for. Once the mass market becomes standalone players it will be a different story.

[gkisor]

Interesting sales figures...

Hmmm... Please note I only use facts as reported by others here. None of this first part is my opinion.

I find it interesting that in Europe, where there is touted to be a huge installed base of Blu-Ray vs. small base of HD-DVD, that they are only capturing 73% of the sales. I think someone keeps saying 6 million BD verses a few hundred thousand HD? If these are remotely correct, it seems that a ration of 20 (or is it 30) to 1 should net more than just over 2 to 1 in sales (2 to 1 is at 66% market share).

It is also interesting that it is reported that the sales difference in the US is "almost 2 to 1" (meaning it was lower than 66%). This means they are selling even a smaller ratio in the US.

Finally, I find it very interesting that if you search on today's list of Amazon's top selling DVD players (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172514/ref=pd_ts_e_ldr_172514), you have 3 HD-DVD players in the top 10 and you have to go to number 15 before you hit the first Blu-Ray and all the way down to number 34 before the second one shows up (the first Sony model deosn't show up until number 48).

If we are to accept the Amazon numbers as representative of the consumer base, the sales of stand alone HD-DVD players is far exceeding the sales of Blu-Ray players. Now why doesn't the Blu-Ray sellers talk about stand alone unit sales instead of touting disc sales? Perhaps it would show their dark secret that they are relying on the Playstation 3 for most of their sales, and in the stand alone player market, they are losing ground.

Here's the opinion part:
Seems to me this battle is far from over. I am lucky enough to own both and think they are fairly comparable. I believe ultimately the price of the players will be the most important factor in deciding the consumer preference and only in this regard does any one format have a slight advantage. Even with this said, the market has mostly just captured early adopters and mainstream consumers have not yet spoken. Studio alliances will wane quickly if the mainstream shows a clear preference. So far there is no clear winner and too much marketing hype.

[Jens.j]

Stand alone sales vs. Disc sales

Now why doesn't the Blu-Ray sellers talk about stand alone unit sales instead of touting disc sales?

...Beeeecaaauuse most people are not going to buy movies if they don't have BD players? So clearly disc sales are a representation of people with BD players. I'd hate to think today's consumer has degenerated into buying movies without movie players or mp3s without mp3 players or gas without a car.

[camp88]

Facts are funny, facts don't do what you want them to

gkisor writes: If we are to accept the Amazon numbers as
representative of the consumer base, the sales of stand alone
HD-DVD players is far exceeding the sales of Blu-Ray players.

Actually, there's little value in accepting the Amazon numbers as
this isn't a true statement--as you write it. Remember, the PS3
is a Blu-Ray player; hence, Blu-Ray players far outsell stand
alone HD-DVD players.

If you want to talk about stand-alone BD players, go ahead. But
what's the point when the installed base of overall BD players so
greatly outshines the overall sale of HD players?

And, yes,I know some folks with a PS3 who've never bought one
BD title; however, they've rented dozens of Blu-Ray discs and
not a single HD disc. Do you honestly think that PS3 owners
won't rent Blu-Ray discs when they have the option to do so?
Rhetorical question.

And Guerojose, nice posts: funny and on topic.

[guerojose]

72% Blu-ray during U.S. "Black Friday" week

Ok, dead-enders, prepare to spin...

"The high-definition format war tilted even more heavily in favor of Blu-ray Disc despite a rash of inexpensive HD DVD players sold through Wal-Mart and other discount retailers in recent weeks. Nielsen VideoScan data for the week shows 72.6% of high-definition discs purchased by consumers were Blu-ray and just 27.4% were HD DVD. HD DVD players have been selling for as little as $98, one-fourth the lowest street price for a Blu-ray player."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/home_entertainment/video/e3i8d5ddf2904a0aae38936c0078ef4de4a

[jrm125]

Europe's even more overpowering - STATS

http://www.qj.net/SCEE-Europe-Blu-ray-movie-disc-sales-exceed-one-million/pg/49/aid/108575/act/success

[Peterzen21]

Blu-ray outsells HD-DVD? Just wait...

My guess is that the first wave of customers are folks that can afford to have 2 or 3 DVD players and don't care that much about having to replace their movie library. In the end, however, everybody would rather have a backward compatible unit, such as HD-DVD, unit where we can either watch our old one, buy a new regular DVD or, once they come down with price to a reasonable level, buy an HD flick. Bottom line is that the industry shot itself in a foot by not establishing a universal format. A year after introduction the high-def DVDs remain at best marginal in this huge market. Well, greed never pays. Remember pay-per-view DVD players? Well, these guys never learn...

[gkisor]

Missed the point... or ignored it.

We can argue all day about who has sold more of anything, but it doesn't yet even matter. All sales to date for both formats are clearly early adopters. This is especially so if you want to count PS3 BD "players" or the X-Box HD-DVD "players", that were likely bought for gaming more than movie playing.

When any format can make a comparison to a measurable percentage of market share of total discs sold (including comparison to regular DVDs), then we can give the numbers meaning. Until then, it is all just hype to get geeks like those of us that read this to "early adopt".

I used the other examples (like the Amazon list) to show that there are indicators all over that one format is leading another, but that they have little meaning. Disc sales alone is not a good measure when neither format is making a dent in the regular DVD market.

When mainstream consumers fork over their money to replace their aging DVD players, then it will have meaning. I continue to believe that to them, price of the major buy (the player) is more important than any non-visibly-noticeable technical differences. I also believe that movie studio support will not sway, since we all know the winning format will eventually get all the studios to support them.

I am puzzled why this subject breeds religious zealots that show such intolerance for other's point of view.

It just isn't that important.

[2jzgte]

Blu Ray is better

Blu Ray is better because it's not just a suped up dvd player but rather a product of commen sense. For instance Blu Ray uses a laser with a blue light because blue light has a shorter wavelength than a red light (red laser,dvd)With a shorter wavelength data can be made super small without them being ubable to be read and that is how a single layered Blu Ray disc can hold 25 gigabytes. The design of Blu Ray even saves on manafacturing costs. For even more info check out howstuffworks.com. In my opinion I believe that both Blu Ray and HD dvd can coexist. Soon however people will wind up buying both players. In conclusion HD and Blu Ray will tie until BD players become fully backwards compatible. I still support the fact that Blu Ray is better than HD.

[2jzgte]

oops

I apologize but HD dvd also uses a blue laser however Blu Ray is still at a higher transfer rate than HD which means better picture/sound quality. HD dvd and Blu Ray are both encoded in Mpeg-4 format too and still Blu Ray holds more ( Blu Ray still holding 20 more gigabytes tahn HD shows that Blu Ray engineers went above and beyond what HD dvd engineers could do). More memory isn't always better but the higher transfer rate is an important advantage for Blu Ray.

[stormed81]

Too bad

Too bad HD DVD is dual layer and supports 30GB.
It has been stated that theoretically Blu Ray will expand to dual layer - but at this point that is just speculation.

So basically, you are saying blu ray is better because the laser is blue.