Comments on: False starts in race to future of DVDs

The number of Blu-ray and HD DVD players and discs remains stubbornly miniscule. Should consumers pay any attention at all?

[dmm]

Upgrade our content for nominal fee

That's right, you heard me! Why should we consumers keep paying over and over for the same content, just packaged differently? If I owned Star Wars on VHS, I should have been able to trade it for DVD for 3$. Same with HD. Most people aren't pirates by nature -- they're driven to it by exasperation. Heck, just look at history: most (real) pirates didn't become pirates by choice.

Treat people fairly, and they'll be glad to upgrade to HD.

p.s. Same arguments go for LPs to tape to CDs to MP3s to MP4s to .... Congress needs to act, and restore some sanity to the entertainment industry.

[Iboughtbeta]

Upgrade our content for a nominal fee

I'm with dmm. I bought Beta because the format and results were superior. It lost. I bought a Rotel DVD Audio player. Not much content followed. What we need is a 300.00 player that upconverts regular DVDs to near 1080P performance. Later when there is a clear winner in the HDDVD/Bluray formats then we can add that player with even better upconversion for old DVDs and the new winner should cost no more that DVDs do now. Just say no to any disc that costs more than 10 bucks. Congress? NO! They will just tax the whole thing out of sight.

[videography]

Well written perspective

At Videography Lab we understand that the transition into HD is bigger than just HD, or content delivery, or type of broadband, or what type of device you use to generate and receive content. There are a lot of ducks that have to fall in line before a smooth well running system is achieved.

HD-DVD & Blu-Ray should combine as did the competing vinyl record formats [33,45,78rpm] in the analog era. Than if you owned a record player you put whatever you wanted on it and it played. When stereo replaced Victrola the system remained stable . . . the sound just got a lot better.

Today consumers are stuck in an information squeeze play between all those "big companies" that you mentioned. They are all clueless about how to win in "the age of videography". We can help at www.videographyblog.com

[hsujim]

I'm Waiting.....

For the two sides to realize that it's going nowhere. Until then,
exactly as this article suggests, I am not sinking my money into any
one side because they both might lose. Or someone will come up
with a legit way to have a universal player, and then see ya later
Sony and Toshiba....

[starcannon]

I have HDTv and regular old DVD 5/9

Why would I run an old DVD 5/9 technology on my shiny new t.v.?
Well first, all the T.V.'s in the size and model I wanted were HDTV so it was a value added feature, not a feature I was shopping for.
Second, I have no intention what-so-ever of becoming a Beta-max victim. That is, until they decide on the HD Media Standard I won't buy a player, burner, and hence movies in either HD or BR formats. Why would I want to? I can go to the casino and have fun gambling, when I buy electronics I want to be reasonably certain I can have an expectation of how long that item will be useful.

[luvmysubaru]

DVD 1997-2001

Anyone remember the beginning of DVD? It took 4 years before
DVD eclipsed VHS in sales and it wasn't until 2003 that we saw DVD
players at $100 or less. VHS took almost 10 years to reach critical
mass. Seems logical that it'll be a whle yet before we see any mass
adoption of either format. The only threat I see to HD disc formats
is VOD or internet distribution of HD content. The format war
needs to end immediately if either camp wants to ultimately
survive.

[cross platform]

The Problem With VOD

The problem with this idea is that you have to make it ownable. By that I mean you have to be able to burn a copy so it will be portable. If you can't take it over to a friend's house and watch it your looking at something that's doomed to failure. This is what sunk Divx. The concept backed by Circuit City in the early days of the DVD. If you have to pay for it everytime you watch it in a different location people won't go for it. You have to make it as acessible as VHS is now. That's the model people are used to and that's what they'll want to go with. Most company planners don't get that until they see their idea sinking. Like Divx. We'll see what they do. I'll bet when they try this concept they won't be letting you burn a copy for yourself. Hence it'll be as lame as this format war. In the end it's all about greed. Not serving the consumer.

[David Kelson]

I HAVE BOTH

I have both for half the price of a combo player. I am enjoying Hi-
Def constantly and by the time the format war is decided my
players will be worn out. Regards, David

[fred dunn]

I hope you are renting your content....

Because by the time this is over these two formats will be dead and buried.
The HD dual format players are expensive any way you get them, whether with your Dual mode player or you have both an XBOX with the HD-DVD option and a PS3.
But the real cost is the library of content that will far exceed the cost of the players.
And by the way if you are renting then why buy a player at all since you can get then "on demand" via most services.

[jfpdjp]

in anyone affiliated with this industry really surprised?

The customer (remember them?) is taking it on the chin once again.

When I'm asked "who's going to win between Blu-Ray and HD DVD?", my answer is "I don't know but I'm pretty sure who's going to lose."

It won't be long before consumers will be able to download HD movies off the internet for less than the cost of a new DVD and the format as we know it will start a slow spiral downward.

Best Buy, Circuit, HH Gregg, etc., etc., are handling the Blu-Ray/HD DVD issue with the same level of expertise that led to rumors about plasma TV's leaking gas and needing to be recharged. In the end, a dazed and confused customer will spend their money on "something else" and what could have been a great development in home entertainment will be relegated to the to the same slag heap as SACD and DVD Audio. Forgotten by all but a few serious enthusiasts who will continue to complain about lack of commitment from one manufacturer after another as they move down the list towards making Wal Mart their biggest account.

Despite almost every other product category known to man, from shoes to cars to jewelry to surf boards, the consumer has become convinced that the products this industry sells are destined to become cheaper and cheaper while maintaining the same quality and performance.

Sure, that home theater in a box at Sam's Club really has 1000 watts!

To those of you out there who really want a better picture or better sound and care about the quality of the products you buy I would suggest you start paying close attention to where you make your purchases.

There are still plenty of A/V specialty retailers out there who will make a long term commitment to you as long as you do the same with them.

We have Blu-Ray and HD DVD on the floor. We've taken the time to set them up properly so anyone who's paying attention and see and appreciate the difference. Either format looks great and has a lot of potential but it's a shame that once again this industry continues to drive down the road at 100 miles an hour with it's eyes closed.

JP

[David Kelson]

Just a thought

The bandwidth required for HD downloads is a long way away for
the average home movie watcher. Also, by the way, I own hundreds
of SACD discs and enjoy them constantly. Regards, David

[AnthonyNYC]

Good Point about SACD and DVD-Audio

Isn't it funny, how the industry was pushing for better than Audio CD quality with both those formats, and the new one had DRM also.

Then neither of them triumphed in the end. Mp3 and other compressed (and less quality) became the norm because of convenience.
I had a friend who is a dj and uses mp3 for his club mixes and heard radio stations even play mp3 songs.
So now that I think of it, maybe smae will happen to BluRay and HD-DVD, Hmmm?

[timothywmurray]

You'll never own the content with these

It is a little creepy that the same author wrote almost the exact same story five days ago. I figure that it got reposted because the comments were not especially helpful to advertisers. The fact is that these discs have so much DRM on them that They turn into coasters if you play them on more than a handful of different physical devices. You can pay and pay and pay and you can hold a physical thing in your hand but you don't own it. Except that you can use it as a coaster if you want. What you have is some kind of a lease on the content that will only allow you to transfer it to play back devices and hard drive based home entertainment centers a few times. This is a huge double scam and no one should pay for this kind of DRM.

Think about: Libraries - film schools - cultural heritage.

These formats are designed to self destruct, mission impossible style. ANd that is specifically their purpose. Don't buy it.

[RDH7]

Remembering Betamax

As a former betamax owner, I'm avoiding both formats! The companies involved offered competing formats, hoping to edge out each other and end up with big profits, knowing that the ultimate loser would the consumers who "guessed wrong." Shame on them!
If they had agreed on a single format, I think most Hi def owners would have bought it!
But now, most people are finding that they don't really need either one! The majority of Hi-def owners have found that an up-converting DVD player produces an image that is almost indistinguishable from Hi-def from regular DVDs! (I have a 50 inch 1080p plasma, and I can't tell the difference in quality between a hi-def station on Verizon Fios and an upconverted DVD.)
So why would anyone want to gamble on a potentially failed format and pay a lot more for DVDs in the process, when the improvement in picture quality is not even noticeable?

[chief6309]

Blue ray, Hd Disc Who Cares

The current standard dvd disc's are good enough for most people. The visual difference between the two hd dvd's and standard dvd's is not enough to wow the average consumer. With upconverting players under $100.00 The visual difference is less then 10% of the difference between vhs/betamax and convensional dvds. I think it will be along time before he HD dvd's of either strip out sells regular dvd, unless they stop selling players.

[Dragon Forge]

Try this simple test at home

What is the value of your resources? Your hard earned money, your time and your space.

Admittedly multitude of the northamerican denmographic is the self-dillusioning knuckle-dragger. They are hypnotized into believing they are discriminating consumers and pandered to on a continous basis so that they actually end up thinking they are smart.

There are maybe 5 channels out of the 70-80 I get that are worth watching occassionally. Every new offering [sept07], (and the 'reality' (myaz) shows are still not over - lmao) really nails it home of how common we actually are. Even though I have hundreds of dvd's with true dts-es/dd-ex in a 7.4 audio and 10 foot xga projection that is better than the theaters by far, I can not spend enough time to justify any further investments in this ridiculous "entertainment" (as they would call what they produce) indulgence.

I can laugh louder and longer, be awed higher, and applaude harder with 15 minutes on Utube than I could watching a whole week of tv during the ratings month.

The end result will be "on demand" entertainment piped to your favorite device - whether that be securly wrapped movie, show or on the web.

I need my space and could do without all the clutter of the shelves and racks just for the media. And it is really stupidy surprising how unsavvy publisher are to this fact. If I cant get it on an e-subscription I dont pay the $4-$15 for a periodical (mag or newpaper).

Now guys in particular like to have "possessions" so vast libraries of media are part and parcel with the show of superiority.

You can spend all your hard earned dough on the latest incremental offering if you want but if you have a reasonably good system now - demand more for your money or better yet, go outside and do something real, can't beat the resolution and realism of that!

[jelloburn]

huh?

"...10 foot xga projection that is better than the theaters by far"

so your XGA projector (XGA =< 1024x768) gives better picture
quality than a 35mm film projector (equivalent to 20-10 million
pixels)? riiiight. That's like comparing a Gameboy screen to an
HDTV.

[ralfthedog]

7.4?

Seven surround speakers with 4 channel subwoofer? I think you are speaking Technobable.

[Metaspherz]

Internet is pablum for intellectual infants

I prefer multitasking when it comes to my entertainment dollar. Utube (youtube?) is all fluff and no substance. Sure the vids are short. It's for the attention deficient crowd. It's pablum for intellectual infants and filled with quick fixes for video junkies--with no real substance. There's more nutritional value in virtual cotton candy. Talk about self-dillusioning knuckle-dragging! I can yawn more in 15 minutes watching Youtube than I can with a full week of watching REAL television. With over a 100 channels if you can't find something to watch it sounds like a personal problem. Real TV has educational programing, humor spun by professionals, dramas, amazing inspirational stories, spiritual insights, sports, local news, and stories that your neighbors can identify with and TRUST (most of the time, at least). Trust what you hear and see on the Internet and you're risking disillusionment 75% of the time. Nobody ever talks 'over the water cooler' at work about what they saw on the Internet the night before. They e-mail it. I can also get more out of reading a novel than a hundred short stories too. But that's meaningless to someone who prefers one-liners because full paragraphs are like mazes.
YouTube, however, does have its funny moments. But so does America's Funniest Home Videos which has more laughs in 1 hour than a week of Youtube surfing. All in all, I think YouTube, and the rest of the Internet's ilk, is best when it's viewed while watching TV. And when you're done you can take a walk to stretch the legs. Now that's what I call multitasking--er--entertainment.

[freeordie0]

Tivo not the only way to record HD

Several Cable companies offer HD recording on their HD DVD boxes...

[MyLord]

A few, but none other than subscription services

and none that do media beyond ordinary DVD.

[jfpdjp]

Beta Max

For the most part your dead on right.

It's a little different than with the Beta/VHS because then it was a technology that was completely new regardless of which format you bought. 6 hour recording was the deciding factor.
Quantity over quality...who would have guessed?

Most people are perfectly satisfied with the DVD format as it is and these stupid manufacturers are trying to force a choice on a format nobody really cares about. Couple that with the fact that both format's primary exposure to the public is via the less than stellar set-ups at the average Circuit City and Best Buy and you have a recipe for disaster.

The only hope either format has is for the prices of the players and software to drop deep into areas now occupied by standard DVD's and force the public to buy the new format by making the old one unavailable.

As I said before, by then, saavy consumers will be downloading HD content onto media centers and there will be no need for either format.

Once again, the industry shoots itself in the foot over greed.

JP

[ralfthedog]

HD is all about audio.

Yes, HD has a very good picture (Both formats), however, the audio is stunning. I will never understand the focus on the picture.

[ev61]

Audio...

I bet the percentage of HDTV owners who listen through the TV speakers is darn near 80%. That is why you see the emphasis on picture, because they don't appreciate (or understand) the value of quality audio equipment and surround sound.

My budget for TV versus Tivo/PS3/DVD versus Audio equipment was 40% 30% 30%. I bet most HDTV owners are 90% 10% 0%. That is the unfortunate difference.

[SteamChip]

Helping people to choose

Sitting on the sidelines, I won't be compelled to change unless
1. There is no other choice for the next dvd type device I buy.
2. Computers come standard with one of the formats and it is a BURNER and it costs as an option or standard install no more than $200.

My current cpu has 2 dvd burners which each costs $40-60 and it made no sense to buy cd burners. I can burn 1 dvd worth of material where before it took 6-8 cds.

When dvd blu or high become available like that, then I will consider the switch

[RolliePJ]

HD or Blue Ray

Neither one is worth the money. It is all a bunch of hype to get more money from the consumer. I have DVD's of both formats and standard DVD, I also have an upconvert DVD player. You can not see any difference between the two competing forms and the standard DVD except for the outlandish price of the new forms. Stick with a standard DVD and buy an upconvert DVD player and you will be money ahead.

[heinekin]

HD Blu's never got off the ground ?

I'm no audio/videophile expert but can someone please tell me what was/is wrong with just using
OGG/Vorbis formats.
They are Free, like in really free, to enjoy and use (no lic.'s, no royalty pain in the butski's))from manufacturer <-> end-user, player, artists,... they can scale equally well with any HD/Blu-ray/mpeg-4 format quality,... You can put in on a any disc, stream it,... you name it.
And it sure beats that older-now mpeg, and AVI-which by the way aren't "free" and "owned" by you know who, and you know who.
Anything that can be quantified into digital binary data is already available, and transferable
via the Internet. Eventually, there will no use for any "mediums" per-say except for improvemnets with TCP/IP.
hey, bandwidth is King, how much are we gonna be forced to pay for it is my only worry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theora
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorbis

[SactoGuy018]

I am still supporting Blu-Ray.

There's good reason for this: the finalization of the Blu-Ray specifications as I type this. This will allow manufacturers to standardize of player design, which will begin the process to incorporating new technologies to lower the price of players drastically.

[richto]

SO what you mean is..

SO what you mean is.....That anyone playing a Blu Ray player now cant be sure that it will play new content, or fully work with the latest interactive disks. Or even the latest encryption!

Unlike HD DVD where the standards and Interactive software were finalised and fully working from day 1.

[webdev511]

SD DVD good enough? Think again

Firingsquad.com has side by side screen shots that demonstrate just what the difference in image quality is between standard def and high def. They compare regular dvd to hd-dvd, but I have no doubt that doing the same with blu-ray would show the same dramatic difference.

Bottom line is that if you've got a 720p or higher tv and just upconverting, then you're not getting your money's worth out of your tv.

[abbottpark]

US discs sold in Europe in both formats

Keep in mind that in europe they sell all the movie discs in HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. They just continue this strange war in the US. So on the internet you can buy these movie discs in both formats.

[Tim.b]

Wait for the next generation

A pox on both their houses!

The mass market may still feel DVD is fine, but the enthusiast segment, the Audio/Video zealots, understands that they?re being manipulated by yet another format war. They know that the technologies are moving so fast that they can simply wait for the next generation of high resolution video/audio, letting Blu-ray/HD-DVD wither on the vine.

I say, let them both bleed each other dry! Maybe then they?ll understand that consumers ARE paying attention when they attempt to abuse the consumer with such shenanigans. The cynical manufacturers could have had a resounding success if they?d gotten together on a best of breed standard, but greed got in the way. Die, die, die!