i believe there was a conference held, and there was a man demonstrating multiple touch screen, it was a big screen tilted up. there was a video included, and he showed a google earth type app, editing 3d objects, drawing, adding pivot points and moving around object. they showed the pictures and moved them the EXACT same way the article described it.
so whoever up there said MS is only good at copying... you r daam ryte. sorry i dont have the link to the old cnet article either. it was good, and i remembered it when i saw this, and was just amazed at how quickly there is a number 2 to that product.
Before I begin, I will state I am a Windows user and support Windows PCs for a fairly large corporation. However, in recent years I have found myself respecting Apple and think they have done some great things (although I think their software is what sets them apart since their hardware is honestly nothing special...I would buy a Mac simply for OSX and nothing more).
As far as this new table system MS has come out with....from what I am reading I don't think a lot of people replying to the story actually get out much. The possibilities for this in a bar or arcade diner atmosphere are limitless. It obviously will start out pretty meager, but you can bet casinos will not only have the money to buy these but will be very interested in rolling them out for various applications. And just because it is sitting flat doesn't mean it can be transformed to a vertical setup. Most first generation concepts are meant to be the catalyst that starts future products. While I think the iPhone is interesting you have to lump it into the same boat as this. Both are nice concepts, but both are obviously stepping stones to something better (iPhone has numerous flaws that will prevent it from being as successful as Apple fanboys claim just as Milan will have limited success due to some of its flaws people have already pointed out).
Microsoft's technical accomplishment with the Surface has been getting the pieces together for a concept that has been hovering just over the horizon for several years. Technologically, none of the components that go into this device seem especially earth shattering. This type of GUI has been demoed in the past running on Linux and more recently the iPhone with several GUI elements remarkably similar to those found on OS X (particularly Coverflow and the OS X dock). The computer hardware seems to be a modified Vista box. The main hardware component that is of interest is the touchscreen, which is driven by a few cameras and what seems to be DLP. It seems this latter item, or something like it, is likely to be sold separately at some point in the future by someone.
What is revolutionary, for Microsoft at least, is that it is finally coming to understand that in order to make a great product they have to start delving into the hardware, something that they have been resistant to do for quite some time. The PC, even today and especially with Vista, isn't what it could and should have been, a situation which is probably largely to blame on Microsoft's own predatory business practices and abuse of it's monopoly. In the past it didn't have to create great products because a mediocre product, such as what ultimately became the Windows OS, would earn them just as much. On an even playing field MS has been unable to compete and has had to rely on hardcore business exploitation or marketing rather than the technical excellence of their products, an advantage that is slowly and thankfully coming to an end. Case in point is the Zune, a technically unimpressive MP3 player outdone by numerous others, including the iPod, whose only footing seems to be MS's marketing trust.
In any case, it's good to see MS begin to realize, in it's own lethargic and bloated way, the value of Steve Jobs advice and the lesson they are learning from their experience with the XBox- That their model for the desktop OS was seriously flawed if their objective was to make a great piece of software as opposed to making a bundle of money and that in order to create a great product they need to embrace hardware instead of just software. It's unfortunate that it took the force of antitrust laws on two continents as well as great innovation from it's few competitors to provoke this change.
Yeah, with 90 percent of the market, Microsoft's business model for the OS sure was "flawed." And hardware is not a new thing for MS either. They've made hardware for years. Are they taking it into new areas- yes.
The Wacom Cintiq 21ux <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.wacom.com/cintiq/index.cfm" target="_newWindow">http://www.wacom.com/cintiq/index.cfm</a> has been working on the screen for years with a much more natural interface, a pen. For their sake I hope the kiosk business is big enough to cover their r&d cost because that's all a touch screen is good for.
The Wacom Cintiq seems to use an active digitizer, where you can only input with the given pen. A passive digitizer allows input with anything, which is more natural. Having used an active digitizer and a passive digitizer, I'd use the passive one any day over the active one. While there are some benefits of using a more sophisticated active digitizer, it becomes a serious pain after a while when you need to pick up the pen every time you want to move the pointer. With a touch (passive) screen you use your fingers! I seriously can't imagine why you're calling the Cintiq much more natural compared to the MS one. You're truly demonstrating ignorance and/or aversion.
Also, the MS one is a multi-touch device... meaning just that. The Cintiq can only do 1 input at a time.
The Cintique has a LCD on the surface, which is much more prone to damage in commercial use like in public places. The MS surface display/input works by projecting an image on to a surface, which keeps the expensive things away from damage.
Also the Cintiq doesn't recognize things that are kept on the surface.
Sorry to say but you've just sabotaged your own credibility with your post, if there's such a thing as credibility in this joint.
I've been reading about it for the past year or two and never expected it to hit the market so quick.
And all the People from the Apple camp that love to flame MS, you need to watch this video then send MS a big fat thank you note for keeping apple alive.
that feeds, MS 150 million investment is what kept Apple alive <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://news.com.com/MS+to+invest+150+million+in+Apple/2100-1001_3-202143.html" target="_newWindow">http://news.com.com/MS+to+invest+150+million+in+Apple/2100-1001_3-202143.html</a>
There is no way that Apple, with $1.2 billion in cash in the bank at the time, needed a cash infusion from Microsoft to surive.
The actual story is far more complicated, and a big part of it has to do with Microsoft wanting access to patents owned by Apple and with QuickTime code that ended up in Windows Media Player.
Apple got more than a $150 milion investment in shares. It also got an undislosed cash settlement, and the evidence suggests that it was very sizable.
You can read more on this subject by googling this:
mac office $150 million story nobody covered
Certainly, in the eyes of the media at the time, Apple was a dying company. The investment by Microsoft did help from a public relations standpoint. For Microsoft, however, it was about clearing the legal decks and getting Apple to make Internet Explorer the default web browser rather than Netscape.
Microsoft's investment in Apple was to prevent the collapse of the only other major provider of an operating system for the personal computer, leaving MS with a monopoly and the U.S. government bringing anti-trust legislation against MS.
I don't get it. It is a coffee table computer, but the screen image doesn't rotate to whoever using it? So only the seats on one side of the table is "prime" seats?
What happens when many people want to use at the same time? Shouldn't it automatically split the screen into seperate areas for each user?
Or, is it just a regular computer with a touch screen?
It looked to me like in the video though the restaurant apps were catered to all sides of the tables, things like photos could be manipulated by hand to be right side up from any angle.
Just like a piece of paper, the application you are using is oriented to you. Want to show it off to a person across from you? Turn the application like you would a sheet of paper. Pass it over to them.
Think of the table as a shared desktop workspace instead. That might clear up some of the concept.
... the usability of this is not restricted what has been shown. You can do whatever you want with it.
Even with the existing demo, I don't see why anyone can't pull up a chair from either side of the table and use it. Maybe I'm not getting your question?
A lot of people here are tired of using the half assed crap that MS puts out and that idiot CIO's keep forcing on them because they got an MBA instead of a brain.
Anyone noticed this? The image is from a sideway mounted projector, which has a bulb life of 1000 to 4000 hours. Since the table would be on for 24/7, that means the display will go out every 2 to 5 months.
Innovation by acquisition? that works doesn't it, when you have money, you can. Why does this qualify as innovation when I've seen demos already a long time ago. It's not new... so it's not innovation. Marketing talk.
There's something fishy about it. The claim that it was started in 2001. Not the current product. It's like saying that Windows Vista has been worked on since 1995.
Every major company has innovation department. It's taught in management schools. The timing of the announcement and date claims are strategies to diminish the impact of the iPhone. Trying to take the "wow" from things that have a wow.
the wow starts 10-15 years ago! a giant table for 10 grand that can sense touch! wow!
....if this was 1993.
but shrink it to $500 and add a phone and make it pocket sized and write "Apple" on the back and it is just hype that gets called "iPhony" by the tech world.
in 3 years, when Apple has a second iPod sized hit and this table is in a computing museum, will anyone have learned?
Another case of puttting out something early to get it hyped in hopes of building demand. Companies like CNET are more than happy to do so regardless of whether such products offer REAL benefits or not. If anything, this product will end up being a minor market player much like pocket pc, tablets, Zune, and every other hardware MS has come out with, with the possible exception of the X-box (but of course they had a leading hardware in PS-2 to copy off of).
it doesn't have any real consumer or business use.
Its nothing more than a novelty.
Jeff Han already demonstrated an identical touchscreen interface years ago to the "wow" of the TED Conference audience, which Gates and Co. probably have seen and yet again stole: <a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKh1Rv0PlOQ" target="_newWindow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKh1Rv0PlOQ</a>
Anyhow its just another vaporware product from a company that yet again has taken ideas from others who are trying to pioneer it for REAL WORLD use.
If Microsoft truly wanted to innovate "multi-touch" they would have had implimented slowly, possibly on a tablet-pc prototype which Gates keeps pushing for the mainstream, but sadly no one wants.
But whatever happend to their Origami initiative? What a joke!
Haven't we all used a touch-screen kiosk at the airport? The grocery store? The ATM?
About the most interesting feature is the ability to re-size photos--that, and being able to download them from a camera. But then what? Can you edit the photo as readily and extensively as you can on your PC with Photoshop/Elements and other programs?
Finger-painting. Solving jigsaw puzzles. I'm supposed to put a cheesy-looking "coffee table" in my living room to do this stuff? Getting directions and ordering drinks are great when you're in a public space. But then how will Milan be any different from any other existing touch-screen kiosk?
Sorry. Over-priced, too big, clunky, no killer features, no clear central function or target market. Milan has the stench of failure. It must have been sitting in the same dusty broom closet as those tablet PCs.
The user interface of this device is not simply based on a standard touch screen as you can commonly find them in oither devices. The innovative aspect of this and similar products is the multi-touch functionality. While any touch screen can identify a single point of input at a time according to Microsoft's specs their device supports up to 52. Not only does this allow several user to use it collaboratively but it also allows for a completely new software user interface design. The ability to zoom, rotate and manipulate objects using two or more fingers is in itself an innovation that many hope has the potential to change human computer interaction. For tasks that do not require absolutely precise input such as photo editing or a signifcant amount of text input such as using a word processor this device is more than well suited. In marketing the device Microsoft seems to be putting the primary emphasis on accesibility and the novel interface, but that does not neccessarily mean that one cannot connect more traditional input devices such as a keyboard to it. And Microsoft also presented the device's ability to sense what kind of object touches the projection surface using an off-the-shelf paintbrush. One could probably also use a pen-like device such as a stylus to do more precise manipulations. If this kind of technology becomes available to the consumer - maybe even in a slightly modified variant such as a vertically positioned or tiltable screen I can see it replace more taditional PCs. Also in the long term surface computing of a similar form may become far more common on any surface such as a wall, a mirror, or of course any kind of table. With the announcement of the Microsoft surface and the soon to be released Apple iPhone which supports a similar interface we are witnessing the first stages of the introduction of a new interface paradigm. In the meantime Microsoft explicitly states that it is not yet intended for sale to consumers.
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so whoever up there said MS is only good at copying... you r daam ryte. sorry i dont have the link to the old cnet article either. it was good, and i remembered it when i saw this, and was just amazed at how quickly there is a number 2 to that product.
As far as this new table system MS has come out with....from what I am reading I don't think a lot of people replying to the story actually get out much. The possibilities for this in a bar or arcade diner atmosphere are limitless. It obviously will start out pretty meager, but you can bet casinos will not only have the money to buy these but will be very interested in rolling them out for various applications. And just because it is sitting flat doesn't mean it can be transformed to a vertical setup. Most first generation concepts are meant to be the catalyst that starts future products. While I think the iPhone is interesting you have to lump it into the same boat as this. Both are nice concepts, but both are obviously stepping stones to something better (iPhone has numerous flaws that will prevent it from being as successful as Apple fanboys claim just as Milan will have limited success due to some of its flaws people have already pointed out).
getting the pieces together for a concept that has been hovering
just over the horizon for several years. Technologically, none of
the components that go into this device seem especially earth
shattering. This type of GUI has been demoed in the past
running on Linux and more recently the iPhone with several GUI
elements remarkably similar to those found on OS X (particularly
Coverflow and the OS X dock). The computer hardware seems to
be a modified Vista box. The main hardware component that is
of interest is the touchscreen, which is driven by a few cameras
and what seems to be DLP. It seems this latter item, or
something like it, is likely to be sold separately at some point in
the future by someone.
What is revolutionary, for Microsoft at least, is that it is finally
coming to understand that in order to make a great product they
have to start delving into the hardware, something that they
have been resistant to do for quite some time. The PC, even
today and especially with Vista, isn't what it could and should
have been, a situation which is probably largely to blame on
Microsoft's own predatory business practices and abuse of it's
monopoly. In the past it didn't have to create great products
because a mediocre product, such as what ultimately became
the Windows OS, would earn them just as much. On an even
playing field MS has been unable to compete and has had to rely
on hardcore business exploitation or marketing rather than the
technical excellence of their products, an advantage that is
slowly and thankfully coming to an end. Case in point is the
Zune, a technically unimpressive MP3 player outdone by
numerous others, including the iPod, whose only footing seems
to be MS's marketing trust.
In any case, it's good to see MS begin to realize, in it's own
lethargic and bloated way, the value of Steve Jobs advice and the
lesson they are learning from their experience with the XBox-
That their model for the desktop OS was seriously flawed if their
objective was to make a great piece of software as opposed to
making a bundle of money and that in order to create a great
product they need to embrace hardware instead of just software.
It's unfortunate that it took the force of antitrust laws on two
continents as well as great innovation from it's few competitors
to provoke this change.
"Surface" supports brushes and pens. Why would you want to be limited to "just pens"?
Also, the MS one is a multi-touch device... meaning just that. The Cintiq can only do 1 input at a time.
The Cintique has a LCD on the surface, which is much more prone to damage in commercial use like in public places. The MS surface display/input works by projecting an image on to a surface, which keeps the expensive things away from damage.
Also the Cintiq doesn't recognize things that are kept on the surface.
Sorry to say but you've just sabotaged your own credibility with your post, if there's such a thing as credibility in this joint.
Here's a great review from Sound on Sound:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/articles/lemur.htm" target="_newWindow">http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/articles/lemur.htm</a>
-Mister Winky
And all the People from the Apple camp that love to flame MS, you need to watch this video then send MS a big fat thank you note for keeping apple alive.
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY&" target="_newWindow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY&</a>
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://news.com.com/MS+to+invest+150+million+in+Apple/2100-1001_3-202143.html" target="_newWindow">http://news.com.com/MS+to+invest+150+million+in+Apple/2100-1001_3-202143.html</a>
at the time, needed a cash infusion from Microsoft to surive.
The actual story is far more complicated, and a big part of it has
to do with Microsoft wanting access to patents owned by Apple
and with QuickTime code that ended up in Windows Media
Player.
Apple got more than a $150 milion investment in shares. It also
got an undislosed cash settlement, and the evidence suggests
that it was very sizable.
You can read more on this subject by googling this:
mac office $150 million story nobody covered
Certainly, in the eyes of the media at the time, Apple was a
dying company. The investment by Microsoft did help from a
public relations standpoint. For Microsoft, however, it was
about clearing the legal decks and getting Apple to make
Internet Explorer the default web browser rather than Netscape.
only other major provider of an operating system for the personal
computer, leaving MS with a monopoly and the U.S. government
bringing anti-trust legislation against MS.
What happens when many people want to use at the same time? Shouldn't it automatically split the screen into seperate areas for each user?
Or, is it just a regular computer with a touch screen?
Think of the table as a shared desktop workspace instead. That might clear up some of the concept.
Even with the existing demo, I don't see why anyone can't pull up a chair from either side of the table and use it. Maybe I'm not getting your question?
mounted projector in that BIG box).
1) people would have said only Apple could have invented something like this and Microsoft sucks;
2) it would have gotten much bigger headlines on the media;
3) Apple would have said they had re-invented the computer.
Still, for some retards, Microsoft will always be the one who never innovates.
There's something fishy about it. The claim that it was started in 2001. Not the current product. It's like saying that Windows Vista has been worked on since 1995.
Every major company has innovation department. It's taught in management schools. The timing of the announcement and date claims are strategies to diminish the impact of the iPhone. Trying to take the "wow" from things that have a wow.
It's the art of war. Damn they're good at it.
can sense touch! wow!
....if this was 1993.
but shrink it to $500 and add a phone and make it pocket sized
and write "Apple" on the back and it is just hype that gets called
"iPhony" by the tech world.
in 3 years, when Apple has a second iPod sized hit and this table
is in a computing museum, will anyone have learned?
Its nothing more than a novelty.
Jeff Han already demonstrated an identical touchscreen interface
years ago to the "wow" of the TED Conference audience, which
Gates and Co. probably have seen and yet again stole:
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKh1Rv0PlOQ" target="_newWindow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKh1Rv0PlOQ</a>
Anyhow its just another vaporware product from a company that
yet again has taken ideas from others who are trying to pioneer
it for REAL WORLD use.
If Microsoft truly wanted to innovate "multi-touch" they would
have had implimented slowly, possibly on a tablet-pc prototype
which Gates keeps pushing for the mainstream, but sadly no one
wants.
But whatever happend to their Origami initiative? What a joke!
this was done in 2006
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/" target="_newWindow">http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/</a>
see the video
<a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.youtube.com/?v=zp-y3ZNaCqs" target="_newWindow">http://www.youtube.com/?v=zp-y3ZNaCqs</a>
About the most interesting feature is the ability to re-size photos--that, and being able to download them from a camera. But then what? Can you edit the photo as readily and extensively as you can on your PC with Photoshop/Elements and other programs?
Finger-painting. Solving jigsaw puzzles. I'm supposed to put a cheesy-looking "coffee table" in my living room to do this stuff? Getting directions and ordering drinks are great when you're in a public space. But then how will Milan be any different from any other existing touch-screen kiosk?
Sorry. Over-priced, too big, clunky, no killer features, no clear central function or target market. Milan has the stench of failure. It must have been sitting in the same dusty broom closet as those tablet PCs.
The ability to zoom, rotate and manipulate objects using two or more fingers is in itself an innovation that many hope has the potential to change human computer interaction. For tasks that do not require absolutely precise input such as photo editing or a signifcant amount of text input such as using a word processor this device is more than well suited. In marketing the device Microsoft seems to be putting the primary emphasis on accesibility and the novel interface, but that does not neccessarily mean that one cannot connect more traditional input devices such as a keyboard to it. And Microsoft also presented the device's ability to sense what kind of object touches the projection surface using an off-the-shelf paintbrush. One could probably also use a pen-like device such as a stylus to do more precise manipulations. If this kind of technology becomes available to the consumer - maybe even in a slightly modified variant such as a vertically positioned or tiltable screen I can see it replace more taditional PCs. Also in the long term surface computing of a similar form may become far more common on any surface such as a wall, a mirror, or of course any kind of table. With the announcement of the Microsoft surface and the soon to be released Apple iPhone which supports a similar interface we are witnessing the first stages of the introduction of a new interface paradigm.
In the meantime Microsoft explicitly states that it is not yet intended for sale to consumers.