Comments on: PC makers walk fine line with 'crapware'

Computer makers tweak their approaches to avoid alienating customers while still trying to milk third-party software's cash cow.
Images: Bogged down by bloatware?

[bobmarksdale]

yes... software...

""I think that speaks volumes for the fact that, despite a large discussion around 'bloatware' and that all this stuff is garbage...there are a fair number of people out there that see value and want this on their system," said Jeremy Friedlander, the senior manager for the software that goes on new Dell PCs."
We've got some news for you Jeremy... NO! People wanting this execrable sucksware on their computer will also use a browser like AOL explorer. And how many is a fair number? since there are millions of people who buy new computers each year, even a very very low percentage of that can seem like a "fair number". It is just the computer manufacturers way of getting an extra buck for doing absolutely nothing except ruining a perfectly good computer. Also, with the way windows XP is set up to delete programs (idk if vista is the same) it can take hours to get rid of all the different shortcuts and actual files of this crap. Trial Software=pre-installed spam on your computer. That is one of the reasons why you should either run a cool OS like OS X or linux or at the very least build your own computer (which will also save you a lot of money and you can actually get good specs and not have a dumb salesman trying to shove an integrated graphics card down your throat as useful for anything but lagging horribly).

[oxtail01]

Get over it - you get ads no matter what

It's a form of advertising - unless you've been living in a cage, it's ad dollars that keeps internet companies (including CNET) in business. Regardless of what OS you load, as soon as you get on the internet you're bombarded by ads so don't give no crap about a clean system. It don't stay clean for very long. Unless you're totally against a market system, stop crying, and since you want to sound so smart by mentioning "cool OS", I'm sure you're smart enough to get rid of trial software you don't want in a matter of seconds.

[bobmarksdale]

Mac Vs PC

I enjoy how there are usually more Mac supporters than PC supporters on Talkback even though apparently PCs have about 94% of the market. Could this possibly mean that most PC users are not technical or know much about the computer they are using... I once was in a class where a speaker asked people if they owned a mac or a pc, yet almost no one knew. Since it is so incredibly obvious to a user if they are on a mac, these people were on pc's. Generalizing, PC users are stupid (I welcome your appeals), and are either just giving into a crappy system and just thoroughly exasperated with their computers and so tired that they don't even want to go online to read about tech news, or could not understand it if they did.

[Tharn]

Re: Mac Vs PC

Since we're apparently making sweeping generalizations about people based on their choice of computer, I'd like to point out that typical Mac owners are nonconformist tree hugging neo hippies who pride themselves on a strict "in group/out group" social system.
Mac owners = "in group", PC owners = "out group"-aka "evil".
And yes, all PC owners have the IQ of a bar of soap because they choose not to pay a few thousand dollars for a computer that can "think different" than the other 94% of the computer market.

[keaggy220]

Mac vs PC

I just read Mac shipments were up 30% last year so Apple
computers are now at a 5% market share. Anyway, Mac users post
more because Macs are FUN!! I used PC's from 1993 to 2005 and
then I switched to Macs and it has been awesome. I still use a PC at
work and the work PC is a great reminder of why I will never go
back. Nothing against PC users - if you're having a lot of fun with
your PC - great...

[vandypsu]

over-rated

Are you kidding me? Unless you are looking for style, why would you choose a Mac. They are throw away computers. They largely cannot be upgraded limiting their useful lifespan. OS X while a good operating system, is over-rated. A knowledgeable Linux or Windows user can stabilize the operating system using customs apps making it at least as user friendly as OS X all without sacrificing the ability to upgrade and prolong the life of the machine. Even the MacPro is limited because it is underpowered for a dual processor workstation, it does not support higher level hardware because Apple refuses to do so, I suspect because they are underpowered. They are still pricey (yes they still are despite some claims regarding the MacPro) compared to comparable equipped PCs and in some instances simply cannot be compared. A knowledgeable person actually wants to have control of their computer, which is why they do not use a PC. While this statement does not cover all PC users (many of which probably should be using Macs) there are many power or technical users such as myself that want and need control of their system to use its full ability, something you cannot do with a functionally limited Apple computer.

[rapier1]

Wow, its people like you

That make me *ashamed* to be a mac user. Really, you are an
embarassment. You, and the elitist swine like you, do more to hold
back the adoption of OS X than *any* army of MS shills could.

You disgust me.

[JaRa76]

Mac vs PC

Jajajajajajajaja... wait a second, I need air, jajajajajaja. Sorry dude. maybe the people in your class were stupid, but Mac users are the only ones that need to defend their OS. If you are so intelligent and smart, use maths to figure out why there are more PC users unillustrated than Mac users. Try (as you said) 94% vs 6%.

[Clues]

Mac vs PC your absolutely right

If you have just read through the comments above and are
informed (i.e. a Mac user) you'll wonder what the hell these
people are talking about. It's called FUD and makes up 95% of
the normal PC users information about the Mac. Ignorance is the
norm even for most of the technically literate who work in the
business. It's only when these guys actually get a Mac for
themselves that they realize what ass-hats they were for
regurgitating this FUD as if it were fact. There are countless
articles these days about technically literate and semi-literate
switchers who all have a similar response: All the things those
Mac users were saying for years and I wrote off ass delusional
******** is the EXACT TRUTH and instead of trying to **** me off
they were actually trying to save me from my ignorance and
delusional prejudice. Few actually admit to this internal dialogue
but even so there are countless testimonials on the web, to the
point that even the most irrational zealot is tempted to sneak
into an Apple store to see what everyone is talking about. Some
of these become switchers too. After all 55% of Mac sales are to
switchers. Perhaps there is a point where the masses loose their
ignorance but as a Mac user I could care less. I quite enjoy
reading about how painful the life of the average Windows user
is and have been thrilled daily to watch them writhe in pain
because they're too ignorant and prejudiced to grasp the truth.

[godam_registration]

Why so many PC users then?

I guess you're one of these people who believe the belong to an exclusive minority of smart people.

In other words, you've got delusions of grandeur.

Mac fanboys just tend to get defensive and fired up whenever people talk about PCs, even if nothing is being said about Macs.

Like in this article: It doesn't say anything about Macs, but Mac fanboys come running with their advice and criticism.

Go home. Everyone who wanted to get a Mac (2% of the population) already got one, and everybody else is content with low price, widely-supported and highly useful machines.

[One-Eared Gundark]

"Can't we all just get along?"

How many people here even remember who said that? :)

Why is it that some people get so defensive about their operating system and computer? Windows, Mac, Linux, BSD...who cares?!

The operating system and computer are tools. You use the tool that works best for you. Just don't knock the next guy because he likes to use something different.

I read a lot of elitist remarks from all OS proponents, but I'm assuming that it is from a very vocal minority. If they spent the same amount of energy actually teaching people instead of insulting them they would probably get more people interested in at least trying a competing OS.

Personally, I've been a heavy user of DOS, Windows, Macs (all the way back to the IIc), Linux, Unix. etc. Here are my observations on today's big three:

Windows PC: Largest variety of software that is easy to obtain. Lots of hardware, so prices are low. Uncontrolled hardware, so hardware compatibility can be an issue. Easy to tweak - sometimes disastrously, but that's how we learn, right? Virus target.

Mac: Still huge in the graphic arts industry. Stable and secure platform for non-technical users, but not as easy to "get your hands dirty" if you want to start digging in to it. Controlled hardware, so compatibility is usually not an issue. Can boot XP, so some curious buyers can purchase a Mac knowing that XP can be loaded if they don't like OS-X.

Linux: Very stable and secure even for newbies, but like Mac, not easy to dig in to. Huge software library, but no "killer" app. Hardware compatibility is still a big issue as many mfg's don't write Linux drivers. Some distros can be a pain to install. If a newbie gets a bad distro, it can turn him from Linux for good.

My 2 cents.

[ewelch]

Troll alert!

You obviously don't use Macs or you wouldn't be saying such
dumb things.

Of course there are more Mac users commenting here - we
aren't wasting time cleaning out crapware or deleting the latest
trojan, virus or keyboard logger.

KIDDING! Just kidding.

This is one area we Mac users have been lucky the manufacturer
that cares about the user experinec ethat they charge more so
they don't have to become a marketing company rather than
hardware company.

As for the two demo programs that come with OS X, MS Office
runs for 30 days. iWork as well lets you try it out. But they are
hidden away. They are not on the desktop in the way, and they
don't use processor cycles unless you actually use them.

But crapware isn't the most annoying thing I've found on PCs.
What annoys me more about PCs than anything is the message
that pops up twice each time I start the HP laptop we have at
work. Windows XP tells me there are unused icons on the
desktop and asks if I want to delete them, or do something
about them. I close it once and the stupid thing pops up?

And what does it offer to delete? QUICKTIME! Well, blow me over
with a feather. Imagine, Microsoft telling me one of the most
used programs on my desktop has an icon I don't use and it
happens to be Quicktime, which is a major reason why WMV
hasn't been more accepted in the world. What a suprise!

[arkain]

Mac Vs PC (Correction: Mac OS vs Windows)

"Generalizing, PC users are stupid..."
Your generalization is far too... well...
general. It's not so much that PC users are
stupid, but rather that **most** **Windows**
users are **ignorant**. Note the differences in
the sentences. The reason isn't because they
don't even know what kind of system they're
using, but rather because they don't care so
long as they can do the few things they intend
to do with relative ease.

As it turns out, Bill Gates is trying to do the
same thing with Windows and PC's that Steve Jobs
was trying to do when he attempted to "out-Lisa
the Lisa." The goal is to turn computers into
commodity objects like televisions, stereos, and
blenders. The fatal flaw is that a computer is
far more flexible, and therefore far more
complex, than any "commodity" object currently
in existence. The only commodity object
currently in existence that has anywhere near
the complexity of a computer is a motor vehicle.
But even that is limited in capability, only
being able to take a limited number of humans
and maybe some cargo from one place to another.

What Bill is trying to do is exactly what
computer illiterate people want to see happen.
They want the computer to become a "hammer"
simple tool. Sadly for them, and happily for me,
a computer has way too many uses to be so
incredibly "dumbed down".

[vandypsu]

bring it on

If it lowers the cost of my computer, bring it on because regardless of what computer I buy, and for whom, I am going to reformat the HDD and install XP pro as soon as I do a quality control inspection of the machine and its components. I currently have nine machines under my control, I have reformatted each one because in addition to the garbage trial software, windows contains many unused utilities. As I said before, if I can get it cheaper with the garbage, I'll take it. I would recommend a reinstall for every PC user. It is not very hard, it just takes a little time, just make sure you have all your drivers on hand when you do it.

[604acs]

last Toshiba

Toshiba Satellites have been my favorites, but this is my last. It came loaded with crap including AOL and the recovery disk has the same. Any company want my business?

[oxtail01]

Stop complaining - you pay one way or another

Actually, most of what's on the new computer is not crapware ( I think it's unfair to characterize it as such) but limited versions of software put out by companies that don't have the financial means to compete with the big boys. If you didn't notice, even Microsoft is in it by offering Works and 60 day evaluation version of Office. Good useful software such as Nero, Jukebox, etc. probably stay in business this way. Computer business is a thin margin, cut-throat business, so if you want low prices and wide choices, stop crying over a minor irritant that any semi-literate user can easily get rid of.

[hiep.d.nguyen]

This is why I bought my laptop from Dell!

I am so sick with all the "crapware" preloaded
on the HP laptop & take me forever to remove them
one-by-one & I can not unintall them by using
Windows uninstall feature.

I returned the HP and purchased a Dell E1405
instead, at least Dell give me an option to
specify "NO Junk Softwares Pre-intalled" when
I order my laptop.

By the way, I called the HP support line and
they said "Just select and delete the icon of
the junk software that I do not wish to see!".
What an answer!

So to address this issue? Buy from Dell & hope
that the others notice their bottom line PC sales
result.

[Jelly Baby]

Define "crapwear"

I bet your Dell came pre-loaded with Symantec anti-virus / internet security / anti spywear - and if that's not the biggest pile of crapwear in the box I don't know what is!
At least the BHO's and the dial-up trials are easy to get rid of.

[Just Phil]

A Key marked "DEL CRAPWARE"

I bought a DELL a year ago and yes it was loaded with all sorts of "crap". I uninstalled 90 % of it and everything is good. What's so hard about that? I did keep powerdvd which seems pretty basic and works fine with XP so not every single bit of it needs to be deleted.

There is a program called "de-crapifier" as well that I've heard of to automate the process.

BTW, there seems to be a number MAC lovers posting on this topic that refers to Windows XP and Vista as "enslavement". I've got both and use them both on a daily basis and XP is pretty easy and stable to use for most everything. Vista is buggy with other programs still and forget any legacy appz that are more than a couple of years old running properly. It's pretty to look at though :)

[tlmck]

PC makers walk fine line with 'crapware'

Actually, the term 'crapware' should be applied to the hardware as well. That's why I have been building my own machines since the early 90's. Fortunately, I have no use for laptops, which are a whole other line of 'crapware'.

[PowerSlouch]

Alienware: No Bloatware

Alienware is a PC maker that ships its systems without any of that crap software. They use it as an advertising point.

Good luck with customer support though.

[monoblanco01]

how interesting ..

You know i used to be one arrogant son of a B**** like you .. but ..
but .. that all changed once i decided to take the plunge and get a
mac myself ... see what the big deal was .. quick and simple ... I will
never return to a PC. THank ya :>

[Paragon 7]

Umm.. Look at Germany

In Germany, Mercedes is back at the top of their quality rankings.

Citing Consumer Reports is stupid because their entire premise is on ASSUMED quality by any person who feels like filling out their surveys.

Mercedes's quality is much better under the new CEO, as he actually knows something about business rather than just finance.

[Paragon 7]

Whoops

I clicked the "reply to story" instead of "reply to comment"

This is for the comment "Daimler is BAD to cite"

[sangoro]

MBZ Quality

Bought an "E" class ten years ago and drive it daily. I must say,"Well Done,MBZ,Well Done!!"

Jim

[One-Eared Gundark]

Back to the topic...

People will always want the least expensive PC if all specs are the same. If that includes loading it up with crapware, then that's what the distributors will do. Obviously, people buy it, or they would stop offering it.

For even semi-experienced users, it's a trivial matter to format the drive and install a clean copy of the OS of their choice, be it XP, Vista, or some flavor of Linux.

For newbies (no offense), it's not difficult to find someone who would be willing to set up a clean system for them. Many will do it for food, or maybe even for free - especially if the newbie is willing to follow along and learn something about PCs in the process.

So, load up the crapware and give me a good inexpensive PC.

[Bookerman]

Sigh. When Did Ads Become a News Story?

Apple puts out an ad, so this MUST be a news story. Whole issue is a nothing worth discussing. All it does is bring the fanatics here claiming superiority. If the vendor did not include the OS discs, they usually include a directory with the OS files. All you have to do is make your own disc. First, backup or download new drivers & then wipe everything. Big deal, you do this one time.

Hey CNET: if you want any credibility, you should keep your advertising and editorial departments seperate. Doubt that will happen as almost every page on your site as an annoying Apple video. As it stands, CNET is no better than Mossberg.

[gripstock]

Exactly why I build my own computer

My first Windows computer was a Compaq purchased with Windows 95 and it was so full of crap ware it took me weeks to figure the thing out and months to get most of the junk off of it. It was like 99% of the software on the computer was second rate programs or trial ware.
My next computer 3 years later was built from parts purchased at a local computer show and a full version of Windows 98SE.
What a difference! I've built three more since then myself and have not had to deal with the crap ware.

[wsalomon]

Sad Fact - Repartition, Reformat, Reload

Once upon a time, PC's came with the crapware on separate disks, and a clean OS... clearly no longer.

I've just given up and now have a routine for a brand new PC.
1. Find the OS install disks (even THIS has become difficult with the MS pre-install diskless system). If no disks, boot and make a set.
2. Optional - go to the manufacturers support site and download all the drivers - this is particularly true for laptops that usually have LOTS of drivers. Maybe even download the latest BIOS.
2. Repartition the harddrive into 2 partitions; one 70%, one 30%. The 30% is the back-up partition for use later.
3. Reformat both partitions - the C: as NTSF, the D: as FAT32
4. Cleanly install to the C: drive for one user and install all the updated drivers.
5. Optional - use TweakUI to customize your Windows settings.
6. Fully patch the OS from MS Update.
7. Use a disk imaging utility like Acronis True Image to save the fresh image to the D: drive.
8. Optional - burn the disk image to a DVD.

So why is it worth the 2 hours to do this?
1. Absolutely clean image that can be restored in 15 min, rather that a complete reload in the future (and having done the patching already, saves time do that later; downside, bigger image.)
2. Latest drivers which almost NEVER come on a preloaded system whose image was made months before.
3. No remnants of crapware removal
4. In any case, running a utility like CCleaner (aka Crap Cleaner) is a must in keeping the registry tuned up. Same thing for defragging.
5. A D: partition to back up your data in case of a minor crash, or a quick reload. Remember, since the D: partition is on the same physical drive as C:, it will not save you if the harddrive truly dies.
6. Contrary to MS's claims to the contrary, nothing will restore a freshen an image to newly installed state. The more programs that are added and deleted, the worse the Registry corruption gets, and ALL pc's have to be reload eventually - the question is if, but when (6 mo with intensive use, 1` yr, 2 yr?)

[jdsmlbna]

re sad fact

how sad. Just buy a mac. 2 hours of my time goes a long way to paying for my mac.

JDS

[archae0]

Crapware woes

I've been building my own systems for nearly 20 years. So I was unaware of the extent of the problem until I recently purchased a laptop. Imagine my shock and surprize when it came with Gigabytes of crap I didn't want chewing up precious hard drive space. I'm still trying to get rid of some MSN junk that was preloaded and does not want to go away. Anybody had any luck building a laptop?????

[Stating]

Use This Software

I use Your Uninstaller, CCleaner, and Registry Mechanic to remove the last remnants of crud.

[risenson]

crapware

In less than 10 minutes, with the delete key I can earn $40 or more. That's pretty good pay!

[shafiqkhan31]

Humbug indeed.

Apple preload Microsoft stuff for you to try out for a period. I
deleted it.
That is the solution.Delete anything you do not want and let the
others do what they want. New ones will learn soon.

Industry is not going to take any advice when they see the
money coming in. If you still believe in ethical private enterprise
you better thing again. There is no such thing.
Shafiq

[Stating]

Even Non-crapware is Bloatware

Look at a program like Adobe PDF Reader. It's 106 megabytes of fat to do what, display a stupid PDF file? Computers vendors should pre-load Foxit Reader instead. It's only 1.6 megabytes and loads in 1/10 the time of Acrobat. Roxio CD Creator -- same thing. Bloat, Bloat, Bloat. They should bundle Cute DVD instead. Just because you sell a computer with dual CPUs and 160 gig HD does not mean you should load it up with bloat.

[Fil0403]

Not All Crapware is Bloatware

Adobe PDF Reader 8 takes about 2/3 seconds to open on my 3+ year old Toshiba Satellite A60-122 laptop, so you're saying Foxit Reader takes 0.2/0.3 seconds to open? We'd love to see that. What Foxit Reader has in a proportion of 1/10 in relation to Adobe PDF Reader is features. What difference does it make 100 MB on a typical 160 GB HD, anyway, for God's sake? They should continue to bundle the leading product in each category. Just because you feel cool and smart using open-source software that does not mean we all should switch from free leading products to inferior open-source alternatives.

[Fil0403]

Apple walks fine line with 'overprice'

I like it how Apple tries to make this an advantage of Macs. By the price of any Mac, you can get a more powerful PC and ask the manufacturer to not include any trialware.
There goes another Apple myth.