People will always want the least expensive PC if all specs are the same. If that includes loading it up with crapware, then that's what the distributors will do. Obviously, people buy it, or they would stop offering it.
For even semi-experienced users, it's a trivial matter to format the drive and install a clean copy of the OS of their choice, be it XP, Vista, or some flavor of Linux.
For newbies (no offense), it's not difficult to find someone who would be willing to set up a clean system for them. Many will do it for food, or maybe even for free - especially if the newbie is willing to follow along and learn something about PCs in the process.
So, load up the crapware and give me a good inexpensive PC.
Apple puts out an ad, so this MUST be a news story. Whole issue is a nothing worth discussing. All it does is bring the fanatics here claiming superiority. If the vendor did not include the OS discs, they usually include a directory with the OS files. All you have to do is make your own disc. First, backup or download new drivers & then wipe everything. Big deal, you do this one time.
Hey CNET: if you want any credibility, you should keep your advertising and editorial departments seperate. Doubt that will happen as almost every page on your site as an annoying Apple video. As it stands, CNET is no better than Mossberg.
My first Windows computer was a Compaq purchased with Windows 95 and it was so full of crap ware it took me weeks to figure the thing out and months to get most of the junk off of it. It was like 99% of the software on the computer was second rate programs or trial ware. My next computer 3 years later was built from parts purchased at a local computer show and a full version of Windows 98SE. What a difference! I've built three more since then myself and have not had to deal with the crap ware.
Once upon a time, PC's came with the crapware on separate disks, and a clean OS... clearly no longer.
I've just given up and now have a routine for a brand new PC. 1. Find the OS install disks (even THIS has become difficult with the MS pre-install diskless system). If no disks, boot and make a set. 2. Optional - go to the manufacturers support site and download all the drivers - this is particularly true for laptops that usually have LOTS of drivers. Maybe even download the latest BIOS. 2. Repartition the harddrive into 2 partitions; one 70%, one 30%. The 30% is the back-up partition for use later. 3. Reformat both partitions - the C: as NTSF, the D: as FAT32 4. Cleanly install to the C: drive for one user and install all the updated drivers. 5. Optional - use TweakUI to customize your Windows settings. 6. Fully patch the OS from MS Update. 7. Use a disk imaging utility like Acronis True Image to save the fresh image to the D: drive. 8. Optional - burn the disk image to a DVD.
So why is it worth the 2 hours to do this? 1. Absolutely clean image that can be restored in 15 min, rather that a complete reload in the future (and having done the patching already, saves time do that later; downside, bigger image.) 2. Latest drivers which almost NEVER come on a preloaded system whose image was made months before. 3. No remnants of crapware removal 4. In any case, running a utility like CCleaner (aka Crap Cleaner) is a must in keeping the registry tuned up. Same thing for defragging. 5. A D: partition to back up your data in case of a minor crash, or a quick reload. Remember, since the D: partition is on the same physical drive as C:, it will not save you if the harddrive truly dies. 6. Contrary to MS's claims to the contrary, nothing will restore a freshen an image to newly installed state. The more programs that are added and deleted, the worse the Registry corruption gets, and ALL pc's have to be reload eventually - the question is if, but when (6 mo with intensive use, 1` yr, 2 yr?)
I've been building my own systems for nearly 20 years. So I was unaware of the extent of the problem until I recently purchased a laptop. Imagine my shock and surprize when it came with Gigabytes of crap I didn't want chewing up precious hard drive space. I'm still trying to get rid of some MSN junk that was preloaded and does not want to go away. Anybody had any luck building a laptop?????
Apple preload Microsoft stuff for you to try out for a period. I deleted it. That is the solution.Delete anything you do not want and let the others do what they want. New ones will learn soon.
Industry is not going to take any advice when they see the money coming in. If you still believe in ethical private enterprise you better thing again. There is no such thing. Shafiq
Look at a program like Adobe PDF Reader. It's 106 megabytes of fat to do what, display a stupid PDF file? Computers vendors should pre-load Foxit Reader instead. It's only 1.6 megabytes and loads in 1/10 the time of Acrobat. Roxio CD Creator -- same thing. Bloat, Bloat, Bloat. They should bundle Cute DVD instead. Just because you sell a computer with dual CPUs and 160 gig HD does not mean you should load it up with bloat.
Adobe PDF Reader 8 takes about 2/3 seconds to open on my 3+ year old Toshiba Satellite A60-122 laptop, so you're saying Foxit Reader takes 0.2/0.3 seconds to open? We'd love to see that. What Foxit Reader has in a proportion of 1/10 in relation to Adobe PDF Reader is features. What difference does it make 100 MB on a typical 160 GB HD, anyway, for God's sake? They should continue to bundle the leading product in each category. Just because you feel cool and smart using open-source software that does not mean we all should switch from free leading products to inferior open-source alternatives.
I like it how Apple tries to make this an advantage of Macs. By the price of any Mac, you can get a more powerful PC and ask the manufacturer to not include any trialware. There goes another Apple myth.
@ godam_registration, 'Another Linux user dreaming':
Linux historically lacks industry support and usefulness precisely because it's free, and support and development comes from the user community; big corporations either view it as a threat and refuse to support Linux systems, or see it as unlikely to ever gain more support, and so don't bother trying to use it as a base to develop their applications on. Sad, but true. However--that's not exactly true anymore. If Linux lacks industry support and usefulness, tell me WHY are more and more systems running on servers powered by Linux systems such as Debian as opposed to M$? Apple is nowhere to be seen in the server market, as I recall. Also, Dell and netbook makers are beginning to ship machines with preinstalled Linux systems on them, and are cheaper than M$ or Apple.
As to the lack of support, which you sneer at: No one in the Linux community gets paid to solve potential driver/networking/hardware/software problems, which happen when commercial interests are so cheapskate they won't help community efforts by releasing binaries or source code under and form of GPL or equivalent, yet new drivers for wireless cards and other peripherals are being developed right at this moment for the benefit of users everywhere. No one pays software developers to write Open Source/Free Software alternatives to popular programs on M$ or Apple, no one is holding a gun to their heads saying "solve my problem/create this program/make this distribution/etc. or die"--yet they do all that and more, spend hours running bug tests, systems tests, coding, creating new programs and fixing kernel problems, etc. out of their love for the challenge and the sense of participation and contribution to a worthwhile effort. However because they don't get paid for their effort, except in whatever contributions come their way from appreciative users means all this happens in the coder's spare time, when he/she isn't busy working on a paid job to feed themselves and their families. Think about that before you speak.
And Firefox doesn't take donkey ages to load a single page, even one which is mostly text, UNLIKE Internet Exploiter. Even when I have 599 tabs open. I don't think I've seen that done on IE.
I'd rather use Linux and actually learn how to fix my system and parts on my own, than pay Geek Squad to do it for me. BTW, Firefox hardly crashes if you're using it in vanilla mode without 32+ extensions like I did at one point. On the other hand--my friend was working with IE7--and the thing wouldn't open more than 3 tabs before freezing on her. My Firefox works perfectly fine, except for a spell where it crashed randomly, but was fixed by upgrading to a newer version and a thorough add-on compatibility check as laid out in Mozilla's Knowledge Base. In the end the problem wasn't with the add-ons but with a sneaky control that Yahoo! Messenger installed without my knowledge. I disabled it and everything was golden once more. So you claim that Firefox crashes > IE crashes doesn't hold water at least in my case. Maybe you got lazy with updates? Old extensions can conflict with each other, and some extensions just don't get along well, like Tab Mix Plus and Session Manager, for which both extensions' makers already warned you. If you didn't notice it before blithely clicking "install", it's your own fault and no one else's.
Manage updates with the Download App
Citing Consumer Reports is stupid because their entire premise is on ASSUMED quality by any person who feels like filling out their surveys.
Mercedes's quality is much better under the new CEO, as he actually knows something about business rather than just finance.
This is for the comment "Daimler is BAD to cite"
Jim
For even semi-experienced users, it's a trivial matter to format the drive and install a clean copy of the OS of their choice, be it XP, Vista, or some flavor of Linux.
For newbies (no offense), it's not difficult to find someone who would be willing to set up a clean system for them. Many will do it for food, or maybe even for free - especially if the newbie is willing to follow along and learn something about PCs in the process.
So, load up the crapware and give me a good inexpensive PC.
Hey CNET: if you want any credibility, you should keep your advertising and editorial departments seperate. Doubt that will happen as almost every page on your site as an annoying Apple video. As it stands, CNET is no better than Mossberg.
My next computer 3 years later was built from parts purchased at a local computer show and a full version of Windows 98SE.
What a difference! I've built three more since then myself and have not had to deal with the crap ware.
I've just given up and now have a routine for a brand new PC.
1. Find the OS install disks (even THIS has become difficult with the MS pre-install diskless system). If no disks, boot and make a set.
2. Optional - go to the manufacturers support site and download all the drivers - this is particularly true for laptops that usually have LOTS of drivers. Maybe even download the latest BIOS.
2. Repartition the harddrive into 2 partitions; one 70%, one 30%. The 30% is the back-up partition for use later.
3. Reformat both partitions - the C: as NTSF, the D: as FAT32
4. Cleanly install to the C: drive for one user and install all the updated drivers.
5. Optional - use TweakUI to customize your Windows settings.
6. Fully patch the OS from MS Update.
7. Use a disk imaging utility like Acronis True Image to save the fresh image to the D: drive.
8. Optional - burn the disk image to a DVD.
So why is it worth the 2 hours to do this?
1. Absolutely clean image that can be restored in 15 min, rather that a complete reload in the future (and having done the patching already, saves time do that later; downside, bigger image.)
2. Latest drivers which almost NEVER come on a preloaded system whose image was made months before.
3. No remnants of crapware removal
4. In any case, running a utility like CCleaner (aka Crap Cleaner) is a must in keeping the registry tuned up. Same thing for defragging.
5. A D: partition to back up your data in case of a minor crash, or a quick reload. Remember, since the D: partition is on the same physical drive as C:, it will not save you if the harddrive truly dies.
6. Contrary to MS's claims to the contrary, nothing will restore a freshen an image to newly installed state. The more programs that are added and deleted, the worse the Registry corruption gets, and ALL pc's have to be reload eventually - the question is if, but when (6 mo with intensive use, 1` yr, 2 yr?)
JDS
deleted it.
That is the solution.Delete anything you do not want and let the
others do what they want. New ones will learn soon.
Industry is not going to take any advice when they see the
money coming in. If you still believe in ethical private enterprise
you better thing again. There is no such thing.
Shafiq
There goes another Apple myth.
Linux historically lacks industry support and usefulness precisely because it's free, and support and development comes from the user community; big corporations either view it as a threat and refuse to support Linux systems, or see it as unlikely to ever gain more support, and so don't bother trying to use it as a base to develop their applications on. Sad, but true. However--that's not exactly true anymore. If Linux lacks industry support and usefulness, tell me WHY are more and more systems running on servers powered by Linux systems such as Debian as opposed to M$? Apple is nowhere to be seen in the server market, as I recall. Also, Dell and netbook makers are beginning to ship machines with preinstalled Linux systems on them, and are cheaper than M$ or Apple.
As to the lack of support, which you sneer at: No one in the Linux community gets paid to solve potential driver/networking/hardware/software problems, which happen when commercial interests are so cheapskate they won't help community efforts by releasing binaries or source code under and form of GPL or equivalent, yet new drivers for wireless cards and other peripherals are being developed right at this moment for the benefit of users everywhere. No one pays software developers to write Open Source/Free Software alternatives to popular programs on M$ or Apple, no one is holding a gun to their heads saying "solve my problem/create this program/make this distribution/etc. or die"--yet they do all that and more, spend hours running bug tests, systems tests, coding, creating new programs and fixing kernel problems, etc. out of their love for the challenge and the sense of participation and contribution to a worthwhile effort. However because they don't get paid for their effort, except in whatever contributions come their way from appreciative users means all this happens in the coder's spare time, when he/she isn't busy working on a paid job to feed themselves and their families. Think about that before you speak.
And Firefox doesn't take donkey ages to load a single page, even one which is mostly text, UNLIKE Internet Exploiter. Even when I have 599 tabs open. I don't think I've seen that done on IE.
I'd rather use Linux and actually learn how to fix my system and parts on my own, than pay Geek Squad to do it for me. BTW, Firefox hardly crashes if you're using it in vanilla mode without 32+ extensions like I did at one point. On the other hand--my friend was working with IE7--and the thing wouldn't open more than 3 tabs before freezing on her. My Firefox works perfectly fine, except for a spell where it crashed randomly, but was fixed by upgrading to a newer version and a thorough add-on compatibility check as laid out in Mozilla's Knowledge Base. In the end the problem wasn't with the add-ons but with a sneaky control that Yahoo! Messenger installed without my knowledge. I disabled it and everything was golden once more. So you claim that Firefox crashes > IE crashes doesn't hold water at least in my case. Maybe you got lazy with updates? Old extensions can conflict with each other, and some extensions just don't get along well, like Tab Mix Plus and Session Manager, for which both extensions' makers already warned you. If you didn't notice it before blithely clicking "install", it's your own fault and no one else's.