Comments on: Zune details unzipped

Microsoft announces release date and price, which means Zune will compete directly with Apple's 30GB iPod.
Photos: Microsoft presses play on Zune

[heystoopid]

DRM!

Who indeed wants this level of DRM anyway?

Oh well, a fool and his money are soon parted!

[bukaroo12]

I like it!

I think this thing looks pretty nice. I like how the buttons/pads take up a small portion of the front panel leaving most of the room for the screen. The iPod wheel takes up about half the space, maybe more.

[rcrusoe]

MS (too?) late to the game

MS would have a much easier shot at the iPod if they had launched Zune a couple of years ago.

Today, the iPod is THE mp3 player to most people. It certainly is to 70+ percent of the auto manufacturers that sell cars in the U.S. and is to many that sell cars in the rest of the world.

They will not only have to get a lot of accessory mfgs behind them, but also overcome the advantage of iPod/iTunes for almost everyone that buys a new car in the next several years.

It appears Zune will be another black hole that eats a lot of the money MS makes from Windows and Office like its XBox sibling. I wonder how happy MS stockholders will be with that?

[Seaspray0]

like an "MSN" de ja vu

You mean like when they did MSN to compete with Yahoo as an internet portal? Can we say, "Still not working?" Sometimes Microsoft reminds me of a judge at the county fair. They're sticking their fingers in every pie and tasting the results. The thing is, they're not baking the pies, just sticking their fingers in them.

[technewsjunkie]

This is about controlling FORMATS

It is.

[K.P.C.]

technewsjunkie's got it totally right.

MS wants TOTAL control of ALL formats:

MS DOS says "Checkout that Apple GUI "
*"Bling"* - We control most of the desktop market so far - Let's
do Windows (They keep trying but they're still playing catch up)

**Might seem irrelevant to the thread but lets keep going**

The Internet's cool - "Netscape" Browser is REALLY cool AND it's
free!
*"Bling"* - We control most of the desktop market - Let's make
our own "FREE" browser - We'll call it an "integral part" of the
"Windows" OS, that way we can bury those (Netscape) guys AND
control the Internet. (They're still trying to control the Internet).

Whoa - check out that Java - That really works good on the Net!
*"Bling"* We control most of the desktop market - Let's change
Java just a little bit - We'll call it - Hmmmm - ".Net" - Get it? -
works well on the "Net"? - BUT - our version will work best with
Windows only - not other operating systems. (That one didn't
work - they got squashed in litigation.)

What? - People are actually watching TV on their computers now.
*"Bling"* We control most of the desktop market - Let's buy a
national television network - how about NBC - we'll call it
MSNBC!
The thing is even though people watch (and have been watching)
newscasts from ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN, CSPAN, YouTube, Yahoo,
Google, MySpace, Etc. - If you use a Mac you can't watch a video
newscast on "MS"NBC because it requires WMP 10.
MS stopped supporting WMP for the Mac at WMP 9.
Now it's what - WMP 11?
How hard would it be for MSNBC to also support "RealTime",
"QuickTime", "WMP 9", "Java" or ALL of them - YOU get to
choose!
Not hard at all since ALL OTHER Major News Outlets let you do
that.

But "MS"NBC is obviously only worried about "Controlling The
Formats". Bottom line? - You don't use Windows you can't see
this!

Games - a company named Bungie used to make games
primarily for the Mac
*"Bling"* - Let's buy Bungie and have it primarily make games
for the Xbox.

Oh yeah - the Xbox - MS decided Sony & Nintendo were reaping
too much profit that rightly belonged to MS so they decided to
go into the Home Video Game Market.
MS wants to take on Yahoo & Google - MSN
MS wants to take on YouTube - SoapBox
MS wants to take on iPod & iTunes - Zune
MS decides THEY are the expert on computer & Internet Security
(ROFLMAO) sorry, one more (ROFLMAO) tears are coming out of
my eyes. If I don't stop I'll probably **** my pants (ROFLMAO!)

I'm OK now. Uh Hmm, Security <chuckle>, <chuckle>,
<breath> - OneCare

W3C? F**k 'em - they don't care about standardized web formats
- it's MSIE or the highway Bud - they make they're own standard
- other browsers like it or not.

As I said in the title: technewsjunkie's got it totally right:
"This is about controlling FORMATS"

Bottom line Bill Gates was never happy JUST being the richest
man in the world via his Operating System "MicroSoft"
Noooo - He needs to own it ALL!

[technewsjunkie]

When U turn it Sideways to watch video, do controls move too?

I'd like to know.

[eimboden]

Yes

they do

[Stan Johnson]

Zune maybe good but people should wait for reviews

Zune maybe good but people should wait for reviews after it is released.

More information on its perfromance is needed.

[PCCRomeo]

Not flash-based..

I've tried a hard drive MP3 player (Dell DJ) which had hard drive memory instead of flash and within 2 years it 'crashed'. Note to self: never buy another..

[Harly321]

Competition is good for the market

I have an iPod and enjoy it. But competition is good for all markets, and the Zune entry will benefit all consumers, eventually, whether we buy it or not. I hope it is a good strong competitor, so that Apple will need to run hard to keep up. And, I hope some other provider enters the market, too. Why not 4-5 providers?

[Seaspray0]

Many won't see the incentive to get Zune

Is there any real incentive to get Zune? I don't see it. They're not undercutting ipod pricewise and they don't have alot of backing from the music industry to provide the service for it like itunes is doing. Even if they make it better than ipod, the masses are going to go with what they're used to, which is ipod. Sound familiar? It should. The masses do the same thing with operating systems, but this time the shoe is on the other foot. People are going to ask, "why should I get something that is only supported by a small percentage of the market?" Apple fans have heard this for years. Does holding a majority of market share add value to your product? Yes, I think it does, and I'll hold Windows and Ipod as evidence. Now Apple fans are enjoying the taste of revenge with ipod. As Atlantis Morrissette would say, "Its a little bit Ironic..."

Who knows, maybe zune will grow its own little cult of fans, the "brethren of zune". Claims and accusations will fly as ZuneBoy and IpodBoy exchange artillery in the ramparts of their silly posts. A few may be entertaining, but most are likely to be annoying one sided accusations that the other sucks, both neglecting to aknowledge anything good about the other. In the end, their fanatical cries will be ignored as the populace will make their own decision on what they want and be happy with their choices. Are you happy with yours? Good! Me too, I'm happy with mine. It seems that we all have something in common after all.

[K.P.C.]

chuckle

Quite a way with words Seaspray0
:-)

[#1BandGeek]

haha

Very true, I like the way you think

[john55440]

One Thing Zune Offers, That iPod Doesn't...

Music buying choice:

"A Zune Pass subscription gives consumers access to millions of songs for $14.99 per month.

Users can purchase songs individually using Microsoft® Points for 79 points per track. Similar to a pre-paid phone card, Microsoft Points is a stored value system that can be redeemed at a growing number of online stores, including the Xbox Live® Marketplace."

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/sep06/09-28ZunePricingAvailabilityPR.mspx

iPod/iTunes doesn't offer the choice of a subscription music service.

[VidPro]

And here's why ...

You have already paid $14.99 per month to listen to the
subscribed service, but in addition to that, you are then charged
another $5.00 minimum if you want to download and own a
song.

You'll notice that you are pre-paying for music you may or may
not actually download later, with no benefit to you for lending
that money to Microsoft, and if you check the math, at 79 points
per song, that $5.00 will allow you to buy 5 songs, but leave 5
points on the table.

To use them, you will then have to keep buying and using more
points. I'll leave the math to you as to how much it will cost (on
top of the monthly subscription fee) before the number of points
at $5.00 increments becomes a multiple of the 79 points you
use up per purchased songs. You'll either feel you have to
purchase songs faster than you may have wanted to, or you are
lending/giving money to MS for a lengthy period with no interest
or other benefit to you. Who is smarter, MS, or the sucker who
thinks this is a good way to buy music?

At least the other subsription services allow you to pay for only
the music buy at the time.

[VidPro]

And here's why ...

You have already paid $14.99 per month to listen to the
subscribed service, but in addition to that, you are then charged
another $5.00 minimum if you want to download and own a
song.

You'll notice that you are pre-paying for music you may or may
not actually download later, with no benefit to you for lending
that money to Microsoft, and if you check the math, at 79 points
per song, that $5.00 will allow you to buy 5 songs, but leave 5
points on the table.

To use them, you will then have to keep buying and using more
points. I'll leave the math to you as to how much it will cost (on
top of the monthly subscription fee) before the number of points
at $5.00 increments becomes a multiple of the 79 points you
use up per purchased songs. You'll either feel you have to
purchase songs faster than you may have wanted to, or you are
lending/giving money to MS for a lengthy period with no interest
or other benefit to you. Who is smarter, MS, or the sucker who
thinks this is a good way to buy music?

At least the other subscription services allow you to pay for only
the music buy at the time.

[kuguy3000]

thank goodness

The reason that Apple doesn't offer this kind of service (monthly subscription for unlimited) is because it doesn't work, and it's unrealistic for any sane person to want it.

Pay 15 bucks a month and download all you want. That' FINE. But stop paying the monthly service charge? Not only do you lose access, but you lose all the files you downloaded. That's right... your collection not only requires a monthly service charge, but an internet connection.

If I wanted a monthly download-to-try out service, I'd use the FREE Napster or just a bit-torent service and keep them. The reason Apple is so damn successful is because it's a SIMPLE system that works: you pay money, you keep it. Simple.

[Little Gorm]

So what's the big deal

Look, Zune is a music player and can play various video formats, what's the big frigging deal. iPod does that, Creative Zen does that, and a few others do that. These others also have 30Gb drives. the only thing I see that distinguishs Zune from the rest is that it has wireless capability and it's made by Microsoft. La Di Dah! For this I should run out and buy it for $250--I don't think so.

[cary1]

it's Microsoft!

that's the big deal! Only iPod and Zune have that brand value, that hype. Other companies like Creative and Toshiba release so many new players and they don't recive so many comments on Cnet.

[Stufiano]

Has anyone thought about it?

The wireless capability. Sure it sounds nice, but to be feasible it requires a large amount of other units out there to be of interest. I really doubt the appeal of this feature if there are no other players out there to link with AND it will take AT LEAST a few years to get ENOUGH moving around so that feature has any real use.

When that is the only different feature in this player and I can get everything else in creative or samsung or many other generics, really don't think it worth $249 or even $200 with the battery life.

[DrtyDogg]

Exactly

The wireless feature will be of very limited use right out of the gate, but Microsoft is probably looking farther into the future to see that by the time they get into the 4th or 5th generation of the devices they will have a large enough user base to really utilize the wireless features.
It's better for them to include the feature, that probably will be turned off on most players now, than to try and get everybody that owns one to upgrade later once they have some market share.

[john55440]

Future Wireless Uses

My guess is that Zune-to-Zune sharing is "just the beginning", of what they have planned for the wireless capabilities.

As an example, coffee shop chains or live concerts could wirelessly transmit content to Zune.

MS Press Release:

"In addition to the rich service and Zune-to-Zune sharing capabilities available at launch, the built-in wireless technology and powerful software provide a strong foundation for Zune to continue to build new shared experiences around music and video. ?We?re offering a compelling experience right out of the box and providing customers with a solid base to customize and personalize their entertainment,? Stephenson said. ?This is just the beginning.?

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/sep06/09-28ZunePricingAvailabilityPR.mspx

[daveworld]

WOW - You Use Amazon Unbox?

.......................

[adinzbox]

Lookinf forward to own this product....

I Love Microsoft!!! Hope they make this a great product. Got bored with Ipod........ I wanna get a player where I can dump all my lossless WMA files and enjoy on my Sennheiser headphones.... hurry MS

[daveworld]

iPod + WIFI ??? Imagine New York

As others are saying, in order for wifi and sharing of songs to be any useful for this Zune player, it needs a LARGE userbase.

Well the iPod already has that userbase to put wifi to true use. What if they are currently working on their next major release with wifi (6G)?
Think of a major city like NY, and imagine in a few years everyone will have an iPod + wifi. But instead of sharing limited DRM laced songs like this Zune is doing (RIAA request), the iPod will let you view and listen to others shared playlist. Much the same way you can in iTunes now over a network. No limitation on listens or shared songs because you are not sending it over wifi. (RIAA need not worry). MusicGremlin does something similar (with subscriptions first though) allowing members to view other members songs/playlist. http://www.musicgremlin.com/

Zune is going about this wrong. Create the userbase first by releasing a cheap flash player for the holiday shopping season. Get everyone hooked (of locked in :-)) on using Zune and MarketPlace. Get rid of the limitation on sharing songs, it is an entertainment device, not a DRM crippled device. And really as I explained above, why do you need to copy songs over, why not just allow others to brows your shared playlist and listen?

[DrtyDogg]

Zune's there first

"Think of a major city like NY, and imagine in a few years everyone will have an iPod + wifi. But instead of sharing limited DRM laced songs like this Zune is doing (RIAA request), the iPod will let you view and listen to others shared playlist. Much the same way you can in iTunes now over a network. No limitation on listens or shared songs because you are not sending it over wifi."
Streaming music over wi-fi would be a huge battery killer. Most of the complaints of the Zune's wireless features are about battery life, but from the demo I saw it only takes about 45 seconds to send a song.

"Well the iPod already has that userbase to put wifi to true use."
But they do not have an Ipod that supports wi-fi. It would be just like launching a new player and take a few years for the userbase to purchase the new players with wi-fi. Many posts on this thread say they wouldn't switch just for wi-fi, so I would believe they wouldn't upgrade for wi-fi either.

[toosday]

Then iPod Copies Zune...

If Apple turns the iPod into a social media player, then Apple (in a
strage twist of fate) will have copied Microsoft.

Of course, there'd be very few people to own up to that.

[lesfilip]

Zune Wi-Fi Copies Apple Rumor Sites

The idea of using wireless technology in a portable media device is
ancient. If Apple had wanted to include Wi-Fi in any of the last
several full-sized iPods they could have, but chose not to.

It may make more sense for a third party vendor to offer an add-on
Wi-Fi device for the iPod for the (presumably) few people who
would use the feature.

Have a nice day!

[daveworld]

No - MusicGremlin First Out the Gate

And once again, if Apple does release a wifi, unlike Microsoft attempt, they would nail it!

[ServedUp]

We dont need another Player, we need a new Windows 95.

Zune is going to be slaughtered.

Microsoft is just walking into another Apple trap by mimicing
their product offerings (just like many other companies who
have tried and failed), but they've made their bed now their
going to have to sleep on it. They don't even realize they've just
legitimized and acknowledged the Ipod, in the creation of its
pale Zune offering.

Sure if Apple were still under John Sculley they probably can
adopt the same strategy when they brought Windows to the
masses. But this isn't the same Apple and this isn't the same
Industry, like it was in '93. Alot of companies & consumers are
weary of Microsoft and their offerings and just don't trust them
anymore which was one of the main ingredients that made
Windows 95 so popular. The uncertainty. Back then it was new!,
it was fresh! and it put Apple to shame in '95.

We just don't need another Music Player. Period.

This is going to be a real tooth and nail fight for Microsoft!
They should realize that the Ipod was created out of necessity.
The Zune player wasn't created out of necessity, but out of
competition and its because of this, their strategy from its
conception is flawed. I don't see a good roadmap for this
product in the future other than the one already created and
mastered by Apple. Apple in hindsight holds the future for this
part of the Industry now. They are masters of manipulating the
hardware and the software and continue to diversify their
product offerings in a natural and yet almost philosophical
evolution, for which Microsoft doesn't follow, to say the least.

It should be entertaining on a comedic level the strategy for
which Zune will adopt, because for me, I remain unimpressed
and underwelmed by anything coming out of Redmond these
days.

[t8]

MS at a disadvantage

The fact that MS do not make the hardware gives them a disadvantage over Apple.

Apple provide the hardware, software, and service. It is seamless and stylish too.

Microsoft is a software company and they rely on partnerships.

To coordinate a seamless and cool service takes a company with style (which MS isn't) and integration of harware and software.

The PC market was different in that X86 was an open platform that needed an OS.

In the mobile music market, it is the total experience and it isn't structured as a hardware platform in need of an OS.

[bartsystems]

No Voice, FM or Line Record, +Poor Battery life, Size/Weight will doom ZUNE

With No Voice record, FM record, Internal mic record, Line In Record, Internal MP3 Encoder, +Poor Battery life, Non User Replaceable Battery, & Size/Weight over I-PoD will doom ZUNE!

Why doesn't Microsoft ever listen to other users & field products to people who use them for feedback before flopping something on the market with hopes it will excel.

I have a $79 WMA/MP3 Recorder/Player, Voice Recorder, Internal Microphone Record, FM Recorder, Encoder Input, Line Input, 1 Gig Internal, SD Flash Slot external, Unit thats the size of two packs of chewing gum with a blue back lite LCD display, and uses single AA rechargeable or standard user replaceable batterys and comes with a case, wrist holder, USB2 interface cable, Audio input/output cables, and is flash upgradeable to future programing via download.

Without listening to what people want, including some of the features you left out on the unit above at 1/3 the cost, your heavy bulky case, feature lame, short life non user replaceable battery, with expensive required accessory interface, cables, dock, remote etc will not win over I-POD or even the the Manufacture that makes the unit for Microsoft.

A little short, too late, to Excel over what's out there.

I'LL wait till Microsoft has all of the Features they have now Plus all the missing features I mentioned above on the $79 Unit, and Includes all accessories to boot.

Good luck on overwhelming or takeing over the market leader which is lame too in features and what people want in portable digital audio.

If you need beta testers on future additional featured models contact Us -- gary@bartsystems dot com or Comcast dot net.

[bartsystems]

No Voice, FM or Line Record, +Poor Battery life, Size/Weight will doom ZUNE

With No Voice record, FM record, Internal mic record, Line In Record, Internal MP3 Encoder, +Poor Battery life, Non User Replaceable Battery, & Size/Weight over I-PoD will doom ZUNE!

Why doesn't Microsoft ever listen to other users & field products to people who use them for feedback before flopping something on the market with hopes it will excel.

I have a $79 WMA/MP3 Recorder/Player, Voice Recorder, Internal Microphone Record, FM Recorder, Encoder Input, Line Input, 1 Gig Internal, SD Flash Slot external, Unit thats the size of two packs of chewing gum with a blue back lite LCD display, and uses single AA rechargeable or standard user replaceable batterys and comes with a case, wrist holder, USB2 interface cable, Audio input/output cables, and is flash upgradeable to future programing via download.

Without listening to what people want, including some of the features you left out on the unit above at 1/3 the cost, your heavy bulky case, feature lame, short life non user replaceable battery, with expensive required accessory interface, cables, dock, remote etc will not win over I-POD or even the the Manufacture that makes the unit for Microsoft.

A little short, too late, to Excel over what's out there.

I'LL wait till Microsoft has all of the Features they have now Plus all the missing features I mentioned above on the $79 Unit, and Includes all accessories to boot.

Good luck on overwhelming or takeing over the market leader which is lame too in features and what people want in portable digital audio.

Beta and field test in the future to know what will work, what people want, need and demand.