Comments on: Researcher: Macs not as expensive as thought

A comparably equipped Windows-based computer is only about 13 percent less expensive than a Mac, says analyst.

[sadiesmog]

Why I switched

I had a mac in the early 90's, but they screwed me when they changed to the unix side and my mac couldn't cut it. I decided that, since *most* companies and the general population use PC's, I would also. I find it weird to see these mac nuts with their religious fervor over a bunch of chips and a keyboard. It's purely an elitist viewpoint, verses a 'lets get the job done and save money at the same time?.

[Gromit801]

Calling

We'll call the Wahbulance. Sorry you're regretting your choice and
need to resort to sarcasm and rhetoric.

Apple is a complete technology company: hardware, software, and
more important than anything else, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.
R & D costs money, to come up with those insanely great ideas, and
bring them to market (which most every PC assembler then tries to
copy).

[Kalama]

Screwed Me Too ...

Yep. My Performa 6230 CD just can't cut it any more. That
pesky OS X, or is it "Ten.x.x" ? Anyway, the old 6230 just plugs
away on my network to handle one item of non- X'd software
that a couple of my staffers just gots to have! Release date of
'95.

But, that's OK. Median age of OSX machines at My firm = 2.9
years / on a 6 year replacemant cycle. My XPwintels, 2.2 / 5
year cycle. And only due to a certain accounting application.

Gosh, maybe I should have tossed my 128 because it wouldn't
run system 7.5. BTW, have you read about all the cool features
on "Vista" for Quarter 1.? of '07 ... sounds like and "X" to me.

Mac users save more money than PC users...

And this is a blanket statement because, well, it's true. The workflow on a Mac is superior to a windows platform, the OS is far more stable and secure, and there's less crap software and more quality software to get the job done.

Sorry, but my Powermac G4 has been running solid for three years, and when I have to batch process a ton of pics in photoshop, I can tweek the settings by just a little, click one button, and not only do the fiels get batch processed, the results are placed in a new folder, the originals are placed into a new folder and that folder gets zipped, then the folder get thrown in the trash and the zipped file is ready for email/upload. All from one click.

[technewsjunkie]

You didn't switch

You're liar.

[open-mind]

My 486 won't run Windows XP.

"I was screwed by Microsoft, so I switched to Mac OS."

LOL

If you're going to make up stories, at least make them plausible.

[tipper_gore]

cheapest?

Lots of Windows based computers are way "over priced." But sometimes they look cool. Sony computers are often "over priced" but cool looking. The term "over priced" is insanely objective and subject to market forces.

[lingsun]

Then why are macs such an utter failure?

If macs aren't as expensive as thought, then why are they such a colossal failure in the market place? All they have is 3% of the computer market. Could it be the lack of software? The lack of choice when it comes to hardware? Could it be the mindnumbing religious zealotry of Apple owners? Maybe they're just a lousy deal.

[rcrusoe]

I wish I owned a ton of that "utter failure"

Is BMW an utter failure? Their numbers are few compared to
Honda. Apple has very loyal customers and has made
billionaires of its founders.

Apple was selling for $40 a year ago, today it is at $65.
Microsoft was selling for $26 a year ago, today it is at $23.00.

You really think Apple's stockholders consider it an utter failure
and are wishing they had bought Microsoft?

[protagonistic]

RE:Then why are macs such an utter failure?

"If macs aren't as expensive as thought, then why are they such
a colossal failure in the market place?"

Short answer, they aren't. Long answer, Abe Lincoln said it best..
You can fool some of the people all the time... Business history
has
proven time and again that cheap will win out over quality most
of the time. I have been using IBM compatible PC's, (an Apple is
after all a PC), for over 20 years. I bought my first Mac about 2
1/2 years ago. After a few days I gave my XP machine to my
daughter. And when I bought my Mac I also priced comparable
Windows based computers. The Mac was actually priced a bit
lower and when I factored in the cost of the software I would
need to either buy or upgrade with the Windows computers the
Mac was the clear winner.

[open-mind]

Answers to your questions...

//Then why are macs such an utter failure?

Maybe they're not. Your question has no premise.

//If macs aren't as expensive as thought, then why are they such a colossal failure in the market place?

The majority of PC makers are also colossal failures by this definition. Only five have larger PC market share than Apple.

//Could it be the lack of software?

Possibly the *perceived* lack of software. Typically the people complaining loudest have *never* investigated Mac software options.

//The lack of choice when it comes to hardware?

Possibly the *perceived* lack of choice. In reality, both platforms offer similar hardware choices. Granted, the Mac motherboard must come from Apple. But you can buy drives, memory, cables, and peripherals from anyone.

//Could it be the mindnumbing religious zealotry of Apple owners?

Typically, *any* preference towards Apple products tends to receive the "zealot" label.

[GGGlen]

Nope

Actually, it's due to the sycophantic nature of the herd beasts, who
don't have an original idea in there heads and won't do anything
unless "it's what everybody else is doing".
Factor in the mindnumbing religious idolatry of Bill worshipers, and
I think that sums it all it up.
BTW, 3% of marketshare is rapidly changing. Apple is selling about
1.2 million computers per quarter.

[technewsjunkie]

Small market share doesn't equate with failure...

Mercedes, Jaguar, and BMW have small market shares
COMPARED WITH GM.

Are they failures???

There are thousands of companies with small market share that
are extremely successful. The Applw BRAND is one of the most
valued brands out there - that's what Advertsing Age says
among other noteable market research studies say.

[technewsjunkie]

Small market share doesn't equate with failure...

Mercedes, Jaguar, and BMW have small market shares
COMPARED WITH GM. In fact it is GM that suffering today!

Are they failures???

There are thousands of companies with small market share that
are extremely successful. The Applw BRAND is one of the most
valued brands out there - that's what Advertsing Age says
among other noteable market research studies say.

[ice9ine]

Where to begin?

Your logic escapes me.

How did you conclude Apple was a "collosal failure in the market place"? Market share is only part of the picture.

Let's put aside the platform wars for a moment.

Apple has been in business 30 years and is doing quite well financially. Tell that to Osborne, Amiga, Atari, Radio Shack, and DEC to name a few. Even IBM is out of the PC game.

Apple has a market capitalization approximately equal to Dell's. This is one measure of investor confidence in a company.

Lack of software? Depends on what you use a computer for. I use my computer general business applications like e-mail and word processing, and related applications like PhotoShop and Acrobat. I do some molecular modeling on Spartan and HyperChem. I also can go to SourceForge and download *nix freeware for specialized scientific applications. I don't play games on my computer - my son's Playstation is better for that and a lot cheaper.

Lack of choice in hardware? Apple hardware can be BTO like most vendors. What's your point?

Lousy deal? The average Mac is serviceable for much longer than most PCs. In my lab at work we have six PCs and one Mac. Four of the PCs are dead and collecting dust, and the Mac is going strong. The other PC is a laptop running an instrument.

That brings me to another point, which is share of market SALES is not the same thing as units IN USE, and the computer you can USE is the whole point.

[just_some_guy]

You got it.

"Could it be the mindnumbing religious zealotry of Apple owners?"

Those guys are scary. I own a Mac, but only admit that anonymously.

I wouldn't call the Mac a failure, but the zealots do scare aware potential buyers. Normal people just don't care that much about a computer. It's like being attached to your favorite brand of pocket protectors.

[Gromit801]

History Time... AGAIN

People bought PC's for only a couple legitimate reasons: They
were cheaper (not better) than Macs, and it's what they used at
their work (originally a lot of IBM's that business weren't going
to toss out).

Those that came after, bought PC's because it's what they were
told the rest of the herd bought, and so on.

Go back 30 years, and count all of the computer companies that
existed. Of those. ONLY Apple is still in business making home
computers. Utter failure? Get your meds updated.

[booboo1243]

Macs are far from a failure

"If macs aren't as expensive as thought, then why are they such a colossal failure in the market place? All they have is 3% of the computer market."

They are anything but a failure in the marketplace. Apple is somewhere in the top 5 PC manufacturers by dollar amount, and Mac marketshare is growing due to the Intel switch. Apple is quite profitable, and the stock is doing well. Some "failure".

"Could it be the lack of software?"

Since Intel Macs run more software than any other PC (particularly Windows-only boxes), no.

"The lack of choice when it comes to hardware?"

I really doubt it, since I'd guess 80% of computer buyers have little knowledge about hardware details.

"Could it be the mindnumbing religious zealotry of Apple owners?"

I'm not sure why you'd think that given how "few" of them there are... But no, I think most Mac owners are just happy to have a good computer and like to share their positive experiences.

"Maybe they're just a lousy deal."

Definitely not! The bundled software (and superior OS) easily make up for the price difference. :-)

At any rate, we'll see how things go as Apple continues to build momentum and marketshare.

[lingsun]

Then why are macs such an utter failure?

If macs aren't as expensive as thought, then why are they such a colossal failure in the market place? All they have is 3% of the computer market. Could it be the lack of software? The lack of choice when it comes to hardware? Could it be the mindnumbing religious zealotry of Apple owners? Maybe they're just a lousy deal.

[rcrusoe]

I wish I owned a ton of that "utter failure"

Is BMW an utter failure? Their numbers are few compared to
Honda. Apple has very loyal customers and has made
billionaires of its founders.

Apple was selling for $40 a year ago, today it is at $65.
Microsoft was selling for $26 a year ago, today it is at $23.00.

You really think Apple's stockholders consider it an utter failure
and are wishing they had bought Microsoft?

[protagonistic]

RE:Then why are macs such an utter failure?

"If macs aren't as expensive as thought, then why are they such
a colossal failure in the market place?"

Short answer, they aren't. Long answer, Abe Lincoln said it best..
You can fool some of the people all the time... Business history
has
proven time and again that cheap will win out over quality most
of the time. I have been using IBM compatible PC's, (an Apple is
after all a PC), for over 20 years. I bought my first Mac about 2
1/2 years ago. After a few days I gave my XP machine to my
daughter. And when I bought my Mac I also priced comparable
Windows based computers. The Mac was actually priced a bit
lower and when I factored in the cost of the software I would
need to either buy or upgrade with the Windows computers the
Mac was the clear winner.

[open-mind]

Answers to your questions...

//Then why are macs such an utter failure?

Maybe they're not. Your question has no premise.

//If macs aren't as expensive as thought, then why are they such a colossal failure in the market place?

The majority of PC makers are also colossal failures by this definition. Only five have larger PC market share than Apple.

//Could it be the lack of software?

Possibly the *perceived* lack of software. Typically the people complaining loudest have *never* investigated Mac software options.

//The lack of choice when it comes to hardware?

Possibly the *perceived* lack of choice. In reality, both platforms offer similar hardware choices. Granted, the Mac motherboard must come from Apple. But you can buy drives, memory, cables, and peripherals from anyone.

//Could it be the mindnumbing religious zealotry of Apple owners?

Typically, *any* preference towards Apple products tends to receive the "zealot" label.

[GGGlen]

Nope

Actually, it's due to the sycophantic nature of the herd beasts, who
don't have an original idea in there heads and won't do anything
unless "it's what everybody else is doing".
Factor in the mindnumbing religious idolatry of Bill worshipers, and
I think that sums it all it up.
BTW, 3% of marketshare is rapidly changing. Apple is selling about
1.2 million computers per quarter.

[technewsjunkie]

Small market share doesn't equate with failure...

Mercedes, Jaguar, and BMW have small market shares
COMPARED WITH GM.

Are they failures???

There are thousands of companies with small market share that
are extremely successful. The Applw BRAND is one of the most
valued brands out there - that's what Advertsing Age says
among other noteable market research studies say.

[technewsjunkie]

Small market share doesn't equate with failure...

Mercedes, Jaguar, and BMW have small market shares
COMPARED WITH GM. In fact it is GM that suffering today!

Are they failures???

There are thousands of companies with small market share that
are extremely successful. The Applw BRAND is one of the most
valued brands out there - that's what Advertsing Age says
among other noteable market research studies say.

[ice9ine]

Where to begin?

Your logic escapes me.

How did you conclude Apple was a "collosal failure in the market place"? Market share is only part of the picture.

Let's put aside the platform wars for a moment.

Apple has been in business 30 years and is doing quite well financially. Tell that to Osborne, Amiga, Atari, Radio Shack, and DEC to name a few. Even IBM is out of the PC game.

Apple has a market capitalization approximately equal to Dell's. This is one measure of investor confidence in a company.

Lack of software? Depends on what you use a computer for. I use my computer general business applications like e-mail and word processing, and related applications like PhotoShop and Acrobat. I do some molecular modeling on Spartan and HyperChem. I also can go to SourceForge and download *nix freeware for specialized scientific applications. I don't play games on my computer - my son's Playstation is better for that and a lot cheaper.

Lack of choice in hardware? Apple hardware can be BTO like most vendors. What's your point?

Lousy deal? The average Mac is serviceable for much longer than most PCs. In my lab at work we have six PCs and one Mac. Four of the PCs are dead and collecting dust, and the Mac is going strong. The other PC is a laptop running an instrument.

That brings me to another point, which is share of market SALES is not the same thing as units IN USE, and the computer you can USE is the whole point.

[just_some_guy]

You got it.

"Could it be the mindnumbing religious zealotry of Apple owners?"

Those guys are scary. I own a Mac, but only admit that anonymously.

I wouldn't call the Mac a failure, but the zealots do scare aware potential buyers. Normal people just don't care that much about a computer. It's like being attached to your favorite brand of pocket protectors.

[Gromit801]

History Time... AGAIN

People bought PC's for only a couple legitimate reasons: They
were cheaper (not better) than Macs, and it's what they used at
their work (originally a lot of IBM's that business weren't going
to toss out).

Those that came after, bought PC's because it's what they were
told the rest of the herd bought, and so on.

Go back 30 years, and count all of the computer companies that
existed. Of those. ONLY Apple is still in business making home
computers. Utter failure? Get your meds updated.

[booboo1243]

Macs are far from a failure

"If macs aren't as expensive as thought, then why are they such a colossal failure in the market place? All they have is 3% of the computer market."

They are anything but a failure in the marketplace. Apple is somewhere in the top 5 PC manufacturers by dollar amount, and Mac marketshare is growing due to the Intel switch. Apple is quite profitable, and the stock is doing well. Some "failure".

"Could it be the lack of software?"

Since Intel Macs run more software than any other PC (particularly Windows-only boxes), no.

"The lack of choice when it comes to hardware?"

I really doubt it, since I'd guess 80% of computer buyers have little knowledge about hardware details.

"Could it be the mindnumbing religious zealotry of Apple owners?"

I'm not sure why you'd think that given how "few" of them there are... But no, I think most Mac owners are just happy to have a good computer and like to share their positive experiences.

"Maybe they're just a lousy deal."

Definitely not! The bundled software (and superior OS) easily make up for the price difference. :-)

At any rate, we'll see how things go as Apple continues to build momentum and marketshare.

[No invasion of privacy]

Factor in the cost of the software and a much superior OS and...

the price difference is minimal.

Unlike the average PC, the bundled software that comes on every
Mac is software you will use and like using.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Right on!

And that same superior OS and software is exactly why Apple is the #1 software company in the world with the most popular product in production today. Corporations worldwide use OSX because of the ease of use and invulnerable to viruses, spyware, adware, and end users....

... I'm sorry, I can't go on. It's just too easy.

Fantasies are nice to have, but they don't exactly reflect reality.

[chibimike]

Software is only valuable if you use it

Unused software has a value of $0. So don't assume that everyone will use it.

I am different than many here in that I have 2 laptops and 3 desktops in my house. Each has a specific purpose. Only 1 machine would use iLife, but I'd be paying for it 5 times as it is factored into the cost of each of the machines.

[No invasion of privacy]

Factor in the cost of the software and a much superior OS and...

the price difference is minimal.

Unlike the average PC, the bundled software that comes on every
Mac is software you will use and like using.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Right on!

And that same superior OS and software is exactly why Apple is the #1 software company in the world with the most popular product in production today. Corporations worldwide use OSX because of the ease of use and invulnerable to viruses, spyware, adware, and end users....

... I'm sorry, I can't go on. It's just too easy.

Fantasies are nice to have, but they don't exactly reflect reality.

[chibimike]

Software is only valuable if you use it

Unused software has a value of $0. So don't assume that everyone will use it.

I am different than many here in that I have 2 laptops and 3 desktops in my house. Each has a specific purpose. Only 1 machine would use iLife, but I'd be paying for it 5 times as it is factored into the cost of each of the machines.

[CBSTV]

fire sale pricing

Dell's recent "fire sale" pricing was prompted by the company's
current financial difficulties and the need to generate short-term
cash. It is not a sustainable business model.

[chibimike]

Advantage of open platforms

That is the advantage to having an open hardware platform, different companies providing different pricing structures. It ultimately benefits the consumer. Everyone of my friends and family that I have advised on buying computers for the last 10 years gets one during some form of "fire sale."

Eventually if Apple intends to grow market share, they will get out of the computer hardware business and go software only. Too much risk to be in the hardware side.

[regulator1956]

Dell Needs Cash ??

Neither Dell nor Apple need cash. They both have buckets of it and throw off cash almost every quarter.

Learn to read a financial report.

[CBSTV]

fire sale pricing

Dell's recent "fire sale" pricing was prompted by the company's
current financial difficulties and the need to generate short-term
cash. It is not a sustainable business model.

[chibimike]

Advantage of open platforms

That is the advantage to having an open hardware platform, different companies providing different pricing structures. It ultimately benefits the consumer. Everyone of my friends and family that I have advised on buying computers for the last 10 years gets one during some form of "fire sale."

Eventually if Apple intends to grow market share, they will get out of the computer hardware business and go software only. Too much risk to be in the hardware side.

[regulator1956]

Dell Needs Cash ??

Neither Dell nor Apple need cash. They both have buckets of it and throw off cash almost every quarter.

Learn to read a financial report.

[cnetuser234]

it's probably also partly the "available" software, ahem...

the high market share of windows is tough to break,
after all, there is lots of software for windows,
a lot of which you'd never buy - but then your friend can "loan"
it for a test run...

[cnetuser234]

it's probably also partly the "available" software, ahem...

the high market share of windows is tough to break,
after all, there is lots of software for windows,
a lot of which you'd never buy - but then your friend can "loan"
it for a test run...

[Glenn120]

Bad example

Have you seen the price of a Honda lately...

[dysonl]

Not really

Is the average price of a honda higher than a BMW or Mercedes? No.

[Glenn120]

Bad example

Have you seen the price of a Honda lately...

[dysonl]

Not really

Is the average price of a honda higher than a BMW or Mercedes? No.

[technewsjunkie]

My money is on the Researcher, not the PC Bigots

'nuff said.

[technewsjunkie]

My money is on the Researcher, not the PC Bigots

'nuff said.

[ggupta7]

take iSight for example

iSight is the webcam that apple sells on it website for 149 bucks. agreed, it has cool features like inbuilt mic and... and... and... oh! I guess that's it. You can buy a similar webcam from logitech for almost half the price, plus more features, like higher resolution, face recognition (watch Logitech Quickcam Orbit on youtube) etc.. etc.. etc...

I read the word iZombie on some forum used for people who actually buy such overpriced stuff, and I completly agree with it.

[dansterpower]

Not Quote

Well, iSight is ONE example, and a poor isolated example at that.
I can give you 20 examples of how Mac's simply make me -- as
a production engineer in book publishing, flash, video and web
production than a comparable PC -- but I am not going to.


Why?

BECAUSE I Spend my use of a computer time to make a living,
not to try to win battles with users of technology who are trying
to save $70 -- I can make that up with superior hardware and
software in about an hour -- Do the math.

That is why I use Macs.

Don't believe me? Think I am a "zombie."

Fine with me -- less competition, more cash for me.

Those PC's sure are costly.

Enjoy your debate.

Dante

[ggupta7]

take iSight for example

iSight is the webcam that apple sells on it website for 149 bucks. agreed, it has cool features like inbuilt mic and... and... and... oh! I guess that's it. You can buy a similar webcam from logitech for almost half the price, plus more features, like higher resolution, face recognition (watch Logitech Quickcam Orbit on youtube) etc.. etc.. etc...

I read the word iZombie on some forum used for people who actually buy such overpriced stuff, and I completly agree with it.

[dansterpower]

Not Quote

Well, iSight is ONE example, and a poor isolated example at that.
I can give you 20 examples of how Mac's simply make me -- as
a production engineer in book publishing, flash, video and web
production than a comparable PC -- but I am not going to.


Why?

BECAUSE I Spend my use of a computer time to make a living,
not to try to win battles with users of technology who are trying
to save $70 -- I can make that up with superior hardware and
software in about an hour -- Do the math.

That is why I use Macs.

Don't believe me? Think I am a "zombie."

Fine with me -- less competition, more cash for me.

Those PC's sure are costly.

Enjoy your debate.

Dante

[KsprayDad]

"Only" 13 percent....

Glad this guy thinks money grows on trees...

If I'm a stockholder and the company I'm investing in is spending 13% MORE than they need too....there would be ALOT of serious questions being asked of that company's management.

[just_some_guy]

I was thinking that too.

Since when is 13% insignificant?

I can afford to spend more, but that's because I don't go around throwing away money.

[Jim Harmon]

13 percent, more and less

Especially considering that the Mac easily runs 13% LESS of the available software.

There's no doubt that the Mac is a quality product, but it's more computer than 80% of the people out there are going to need or use.

If you cater to the high end market, you shouldn't be surprised if you don't also have more than a sliver of the marketshare.

BTW... I've run a PC for over 20 years, and have never had any major hardware / software / virus problems yet. But then, that's because I know how to take care of a computer and can prevent them from happening in the first place.

[KsprayDad]

"Only" 13 percent....

Glad this guy thinks money grows on trees...

If I'm a stockholder and the company I'm investing in is spending 13% MORE than they need too....there would be ALOT of serious questions being asked of that company's management.

[just_some_guy]

I was thinking that too.

Since when is 13% insignificant?

I can afford to spend more, but that's because I don't go around throwing away money.

[Jim Harmon]

13 percent, more and less

Especially considering that the Mac easily runs 13% LESS of the available software.

There's no doubt that the Mac is a quality product, but it's more computer than 80% of the people out there are going to need or use.

If you cater to the high end market, you shouldn't be surprised if you don't also have more than a sliver of the marketshare.

BTW... I've run a PC for over 20 years, and have never had any major hardware / software / virus problems yet. But then, that's because I know how to take care of a computer and can prevent them from happening in the first place.

[The_Raven]

The dumb comparisons continue...

Why do they always leave out the OS and bundled applications in these comparisons? It's just a friggin' box of electronics without the software that makes it useful.

It must be because the Mac would easily come out on top as the best value if the software was factored in.

[The_Raven]

The dumb comparisons continue...

Why do they always leave out the OS and bundled applications in these comparisons? It's just a friggin' box of electronics without the software that makes it useful.

It must be because the Mac would easily come out on top as the best value if the software was factored in.

[lefty.crupps]

so, how expensive is thought?

Come on, CNet, use some grammar.

Why don't we see articles named "Cheap Windows boxes not as inexpensive as advertized" or "GNU/Linux boxes worth more than hardware"? Because anyone who knows computers knows these to be true.