Version: 2008
  • On TV.com: TOP 10 Shows CANCELED Too Soon

Comments on: TV industry frets over high definition

High-definition gear doesn't come cheap. And that's just one of the things clouding the HD picture for broadcasters.

Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 3 pages (112 Comments)
If I remember correctly...
by Zymurgist April 26, 2006 4:58 AM PDT
The mandate is to switch to DTV, not HDTV -- big difference. In either case, HD cameras aren't necessary. You need a digitizer and trancoder/transcoding software. That can be had for a few hundred bucks and no doubt the stations all have the hardware, just not the software.

Once you've got that working, you need the digital broadcasting equipment -- and chances are the equipment they already have will work save for some minor modifications (how major or minor would depend on the configuration and age of the equipment).
Reply to this comment
You are right.
by wwhit710 April 26, 2006 5:27 AM PDT
You are exactly right. It is unfortunate that this article, like many, is unable to distinguish between the two related but independent shifts in the TV industry.

The smaller production houses creating VHS training tapes will be utterly unaffected. Their clients will still hook up VCRs to the new mandated DTVs in the way they always have. There is no broadcasting involved...
I believe you do remember correctly
by Jackson Cracker April 27, 2006 12:32 AM PDT
Despite the correction listed at the bottom of the article,
the story still seems to be mixing up the two topics -
(1) digital broadcasting and (2) HD capture/recording.
There is no requirement that all source material be in
hi-def, since that would obviously limit greatly what
programming could be shown.
If I remember correctly...
by Zymurgist April 26, 2006 4:58 AM PDT
The mandate is to switch to DTV, not HDTV -- big difference. In either case, HD cameras aren't necessary. You need a digitizer and trancoder/transcoding software. That can be had for a few hundred bucks and no doubt the stations all have the hardware, just not the software.

Once you've got that working, you need the digital broadcasting equipment -- and chances are the equipment they already have will work save for some minor modifications (how major or minor would depend on the configuration and age of the equipment).
Reply to this comment
You are right.
by wwhit710 April 26, 2006 5:27 AM PDT
You are exactly right. It is unfortunate that this article, like many, is unable to distinguish between the two related but independent shifts in the TV industry.

The smaller production houses creating VHS training tapes will be utterly unaffected. Their clients will still hook up VCRs to the new mandated DTVs in the way they always have. There is no broadcasting involved...
I believe you do remember correctly
by Jackson Cracker April 27, 2006 12:32 AM PDT
Despite the correction listed at the bottom of the article,
the story still seems to be mixing up the two topics -
(1) digital broadcasting and (2) HD capture/recording.
There is no requirement that all source material be in
hi-def, since that would obviously limit greatly what
programming could be shown.
There are downsides to HDTV
by mikefocke April 26, 2006 5:54 AM PDT
The expense of the external antenna (if you aren't on cable or a satellite.

The variability of the signal. I live in a major metro area (DC) 15 miles from the city in a very populated neighborhood. When the wind blows, and trees shake, I lose my HDTV signal on all 5 stations (but not the analog ones). When it rains or snows hard, I lose my HDTV signal on all 5 stations (but not the analog ones). This creates safety issues. Last year I was able to track the progress of a very nearby tornado on analog but not on HDTV.
I love it when it works.
(and yes, I've spent over $1,500 on antennas, rotors and the like and cut down trees to try and improve things).
Reply to this comment
Move the antenna
by booboo1243 April 26, 2006 6:33 AM PDT
If you've got unused attic space try paling the antenna inside. The radio waves will still get to the antenna (unless you've got a metal roof) but the wind won't.
View all 2 replies
Another downside...
by ddesy April 26, 2006 12:48 PM PDT
Besides the classic antenna issue, there is a picture quality issue. Sure you have the higher resolution, but there is plenty of macroblocking that you just don't get with analog signals. Unfortunately the bandwidth needed for good analog HDTV would be too high to be practical. Then again, the bandwidth for uncompressed digital would be too high as well.
There are downsides to HDTV
by mikefocke April 26, 2006 5:54 AM PDT
The expense of the external antenna (if you aren't on cable or a satellite.

The variability of the signal. I live in a major metro area (DC) 15 miles from the city in a very populated neighborhood. When the wind blows, and trees shake, I lose my HDTV signal on all 5 stations (but not the analog ones). When it rains or snows hard, I lose my HDTV signal on all 5 stations (but not the analog ones). This creates safety issues. Last year I was able to track the progress of a very nearby tornado on analog but not on HDTV.
I love it when it works.
(and yes, I've spent over $1,500 on antennas, rotors and the like and cut down trees to try and improve things).
Reply to this comment
Move the antenna
by booboo1243 April 26, 2006 6:33 AM PDT
If you've got unused attic space try paling the antenna inside. The radio waves will still get to the antenna (unless you've got a metal roof) but the wind won't.
View all 2 replies
Another downside...
by ddesy April 26, 2006 12:48 PM PDT
Besides the classic antenna issue, there is a picture quality issue. Sure you have the higher resolution, but there is plenty of macroblocking that you just don't get with analog signals. Unfortunately the bandwidth needed for good analog HDTV would be too high to be practical. Then again, the bandwidth for uncompressed digital would be too high as well.
stop the madness
by skeptik April 26, 2006 6:51 AM PDT
Let me be very clear about something. HDTV DOES NOT involve a $1500 LCD. I purchased a Panasonic HD widescreen 26" CRT with HDMI, component, svhs and composit inputs last fall for $385. More expensive than a 4:3 SD tube, sure, but not even close to $1500.
If you have to get a 40" LCD, that's your own issue and has nothing to do with the cost of converting to HD.

However, the sky IS falling so let's all run around screaming about the end of the world.
Reply to this comment
That was really funny
by Chevaliermusic April 26, 2006 6:58 AM PDT
seriously - "sky is falling..." that was great.

Thanks (really needed a laugh right now)
Dude - the SKY is falling & the apocolypse is approaching SOON
by baswwe April 26, 2006 11:20 AM PDT
Iran/Israel will send us spiraling into hell.
stop the madness
by skeptik April 26, 2006 6:51 AM PDT
Let me be very clear about something. HDTV DOES NOT involve a $1500 LCD. I purchased a Panasonic HD widescreen 26" CRT with HDMI, component, svhs and composit inputs last fall for $385. More expensive than a 4:3 SD tube, sure, but not even close to $1500.
If you have to get a 40" LCD, that's your own issue and has nothing to do with the cost of converting to HD.

However, the sky IS falling so let's all run around screaming about the end of the world.
Reply to this comment
That was really funny
by Chevaliermusic April 26, 2006 6:58 AM PDT
seriously - "sky is falling..." that was great.

Thanks (really needed a laugh right now)
Dude - the SKY is falling & the apocolypse is approaching SOON
by baswwe April 26, 2006 11:20 AM PDT
Iran/Israel will send us spiraling into hell.
HDTV is nice, but...
by Frodo420024 April 26, 2006 7:21 AM PDT
Unless they come up with something much better to show on it, I'll not invest in a TV set at all. With the expansion of the Internet, the market for good documentaries and serious programming has diminshed steeply.

You can get most of the relevant information from the Internet without having to worry about having to be online at a certain time, and the opportunities for interactivity makes it much more interesting than TV for persons wanting to make a difference.

What's left is news & debate(which I watch), and entertainment (which I skip). But seriously, noone should expect that the ability to watch Desperate Housewives in super resolution will convince me to take time out from whatever else keeps me busy. If I want entertainment (and that happens), my DVD player does a much better job at getting me what I want when I want it.

Sure, TV will not cease to exist - but to expect the entire system to switch to HDTV in a mere three years? That's optimistic, and extremely so :)
Reply to this comment
You're missing the point
by jbrunken April 26, 2006 7:33 AM PDT
Probabably in part because the author of the article got thier facts wrong.

The government is requiring broadcasters to switch to Digital TV and give up their Analog signal. This has nothing to do with the "Quality" of HD and everything to do with the goverment wanting to use the analog bandwidth for emergency services.

Even after the mandated switch to DTV, broadcasters are still free to broadcast standard definition programming. The only thing driving the switch to HD is consumer demand.

Personally, I love HDTV and I think there is more good content out there than you realize (PBS has some fantastic HD content), but I can see how people that prefer small TV's (<= 32") don't care that much about it.
View reply
I thought HDTV was for porn
by aabcdefghij987654321 April 28, 2006 3:07 PM PDT
Frankly, who else than people watching porn wants to see close-ups?
I thought HDTV was for porn
by aabcdefghij987654321 April 28, 2006 3:07 PM PDT
Frankly, who else than people watching porn want to see close-ups?
HDTV is nice, but...
by Frodo420024 April 26, 2006 7:21 AM PDT
Unless they come up with something much better to show on it, I'll not invest in a TV set at all. With the expansion of the Internet, the market for good documentaries and serious programming has diminshed steeply.

You can get most of the relevant information from the Internet without having to worry about having to be online at a certain time, and the opportunities for interactivity makes it much more interesting than TV for persons wanting to make a difference.

What's left is news & debate(which I watch), and entertainment (which I skip). But seriously, noone should expect that the ability to watch Desperate Housewives in super resolution will convince me to take time out from whatever else keeps me busy. If I want entertainment (and that happens), my DVD player does a much better job at getting me what I want when I want it.

Sure, TV will not cease to exist - but to expect the entire system to switch to HDTV in a mere three years? That's optimistic, and extremely so :)
Reply to this comment
You're missing the point
by jbrunken April 26, 2006 7:33 AM PDT
Probabably in part because the author of the article got thier facts wrong.

The government is requiring broadcasters to switch to Digital TV and give up their Analog signal. This has nothing to do with the "Quality" of HD and everything to do with the goverment wanting to use the analog bandwidth for emergency services.

Even after the mandated switch to DTV, broadcasters are still free to broadcast standard definition programming. The only thing driving the switch to HD is consumer demand.

Personally, I love HDTV and I think there is more good content out there than you realize (PBS has some fantastic HD content), but I can see how people that prefer small TV's (<= 32") don't care that much about it.
View reply
I thought HDTV was for porn
by aabcdefghij987654321 April 28, 2006 3:07 PM PDT
Frankly, who else than people watching porn wants to see close-ups?
I thought HDTV was for porn
by aabcdefghij987654321 April 28, 2006 3:07 PM PDT
Frankly, who else than people watching porn want to see close-ups?
I have an HD cam...where's the problem?
by bigRedITGeek April 26, 2006 7:27 AM PDT
For a few grand you can pick up a Sony HDV camera that delivers pristine 1080i resolution images. True, this is a "compressed" HD signal but its quite acceptable for production material. I'm just a hobbyist, and I have the prosumer/consumer version Sony HDR-HC1 HDV cam and the image is outstanding. (For less than $1500) Its as good as any source I've picked up over-the-air from my locals...
Reply to this comment
You consumer, they broadcaster
by Jahntassa April 26, 2006 8:15 AM PDT
The cameras and associated equipment available for consumers is miles away from what broadcasters need to use. Your $1500 camera has an image that would look like trash compared to the Sony and Ikegami HD systems that are used in HD broadcasts, especially in the environments they're in. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes in television, more than your HD cam.

Plus there's a lot of other equipment. Switchers, routers, VTR's, video processors, etc that need to get swapped out to handle the HDTV signals.

A lot of equipment in the industry is already Digital, though.
I have an HD cam...where's the problem?
by bigRedITGeek April 26, 2006 7:27 AM PDT
For a few grand you can pick up a Sony HDV camera that delivers pristine 1080i resolution images. True, this is a "compressed" HD signal but its quite acceptable for production material. I'm just a hobbyist, and I have the prosumer/consumer version Sony HDR-HC1 HDV cam and the image is outstanding. (For less than $1500) Its as good as any source I've picked up over-the-air from my locals...
Reply to this comment
You consumer, they broadcaster
by Jahntassa April 26, 2006 8:15 AM PDT
The cameras and associated equipment available for consumers is miles away from what broadcasters need to use. Your $1500 camera has an image that would look like trash compared to the Sony and Ikegami HD systems that are used in HD broadcasts, especially in the environments they're in. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes in television, more than your HD cam.

Plus there's a lot of other equipment. Switchers, routers, VTR's, video processors, etc that need to get swapped out to handle the HDTV signals.

A lot of equipment in the industry is already Digital, though.
Thinking "old school"...I've seen it.
by shanewalker April 26, 2006 7:42 AM PDT
I've been to six or seven NABs. I've spent some time in broadcast facilities and come from post production where even there it's exibited.

I'm talking about that all-to-common phenomenon of "thinking old school". The types that believe you still have to sink all your capital into expensive custom switcher consoles, patch bays and "suites" w/ consultants called in a 1K per hour just to place the speakers.

There's no argument that you need pro-level hardware: think top-end encoders, routers, etc. But much of everything else in the production pipeline isn't custom/turnkey hardware driven...it's off-the-shelf PC and SOFTWARE driven. That way, your facility's technological infrastructure evolves w/ Moore's Law (faster/cheaper exponentially), and upgrading is a constant (but MUCH less expensive and modular, almost like an installment plan).

Of course, old suits don't see it that way--they want to be able to do tours of the facility and say, "That's a *blank*, which cost us a half million, but it's top of the line"; and most of the facility engineering staff are still pining for the long-lost days of 1-inch machines and ginormous Grass Valley consoles and Quantel paintboxes--you know, install them and then maintain them for 6 to 10 years, and want nothing to do w/ having to keep up with constantly upgraded 3D cards and workstations w/ consumer chips and software updates every other week.

In short...this year will prove if the TV industry can shake is old ways and move forward; if it can move past prejudices and misconceptions and simply go w/ the most cost effective tools to do their jobs and deliver HD to the market. For example, one of the most impressive things I saw on the show floor this week was Canon's new XL H1 HD camera. It records DV/HDV, which makes it consumer, but has top-notch optics, the ability to pipe out uncompressed 1.5Mb/sec HD streams and can be computer controlled in multi-camera setups w/ an SDI I/O option...all at the $10K price point. The image quality I saw, live and pre-recorded, touted as absolutely unaltered (not digitally post-treated), was stunning. So, a facility could buy 7 of these for one of the traditional solutions...i.e. outfit a fleet of field news trucks. But will they? No, they'd rather sit around talking about how expensive it is--to do things the way they've done them for 30+ years, that is.
Reply to this comment
Thinking "old school"...I've seen it.
by shanewalker April 26, 2006 7:42 AM PDT
I've been to six or seven NABs. I've spent some time in broadcast facilities and come from post production where even there it's exibited.

I'm talking about that all-to-common phenomenon of "thinking old school". The types that believe you still have to sink all your capital into expensive custom switcher consoles, patch bays and "suites" w/ consultants called in a 1K per hour just to place the speakers.

There's no argument that you need pro-level hardware: think top-end encoders, routers, etc. But much of everything else in the production pipeline isn't custom/turnkey hardware driven...it's off-the-shelf PC and SOFTWARE driven. That way, your facility's technological infrastructure evolves w/ Moore's Law (faster/cheaper exponentially), and upgrading is a constant (but MUCH less expensive and modular, almost like an installment plan).

Of course, old suits don't see it that way--they want to be able to do tours of the facility and say, "That's a *blank*, which cost us a half million, but it's top of the line"; and most of the facility engineering staff are still pining for the long-lost days of 1-inch machines and ginormous Grass Valley consoles and Quantel paintboxes--you know, install them and then maintain them for 6 to 10 years, and want nothing to do w/ having to keep up with constantly upgraded 3D cards and workstations w/ consumer chips and software updates every other week.

In short...this year will prove if the TV industry can shake is old ways and move forward; if it can move past prejudices and misconceptions and simply go w/ the most cost effective tools to do their jobs and deliver HD to the market. For example, one of the most impressive things I saw on the show floor this week was Canon's new XL H1 HD camera. It records DV/HDV, which makes it consumer, but has top-notch optics, the ability to pipe out uncompressed 1.5Mb/sec HD streams and can be computer controlled in multi-camera setups w/ an SDI I/O option...all at the $10K price point. The image quality I saw, live and pre-recorded, touted as absolutely unaltered (not digitally post-treated), was stunning. So, a facility could buy 7 of these for one of the traditional solutions...i.e. outfit a fleet of field news trucks. But will they? No, they'd rather sit around talking about how expensive it is--to do things the way they've done them for 30+ years, that is.
Reply to this comment
No REQUIREMENT for HD
by ClearlyResolved April 26, 2006 7:53 AM PDT
________________________________

The federal government's requirement that broadcasters move to HD within three years had scores of tiny production houses, public broadcasting stations and university communications departments pacing the aisles at the National Association of Broadcasters 2006 electronics media conference here this week.
________________________________

A couple of points to make here:

* First, while the sentence above paints a vivid picture of a dilemma facing the television industry, it is FACTUALLY incorrect.

There is no requirement for broadcasters to transmit in HD; in fact, the only requirement is that they shift to digital broadcasting, which may or may not be in HD.

Second, the cost of moving to digital is a fraction of moving to HD, and while it's not trivial, the broadcasters have had the better part of 10 years to get themselves ready for this change.

The majority of these broadcasters, particularly local stations, have been dragging their feet and doing a generally miserable job in the transition. Stations that are digital and able to passthrough HD programming from a network, have made a hash of simple things like ensuring the HD feed is on the air when HD programming is available.

In my view, broadcasters are spectacularly unworthy of any crocodile tears from CNET or any other corner of the media.
Reply to this comment
Digital, not necessarily HD
by CBSTV April 26, 2006 8:19 PM PDT
I'm glad to see this important point being made. Television stations
are not required to broadcast in high definition, only digital.
Stations can simply take their existing NTSC analog signal and
convert it to digital to satisfy the Federal requirements. This does
not mean having to buy new cameras, switchers and VTRs.

Incidentally, it was the broadcast TV community that originally
pushed for the switch to digital transmission. Then they proceeded
to drag their feet and ask for deadline extensions from the FCC.
No REQUIREMENT for HD
by ClearlyResolved April 26, 2006 7:53 AM PDT
________________________________

The federal government's requirement that broadcasters move to HD within three years had scores of tiny production houses, public broadcasting stations and university communications departments pacing the aisles at the National Association of Broadcasters 2006 electronics media conference here this week.
________________________________

A couple of points to make here:

* First, while the sentence above paints a vivid picture of a dilemma facing the television industry, it is FACTUALLY incorrect.

There is no requirement for broadcasters to transmit in HD; in fact, the only requirement is that they shift to digital broadcasting, which may or may not be in HD.

Second, the cost of moving to digital is a fraction of moving to HD, and while it's not trivial, the broadcasters have had the better part of 10 years to get themselves ready for this change.

The majority of these broadcasters, particularly local stations, have been dragging their feet and doing a generally miserable job in the transition. Stations that are digital and able to passthrough HD programming from a network, have made a hash of simple things like ensuring the HD feed is on the air when HD programming is available.

In my view, broadcasters are spectacularly unworthy of any crocodile tears from CNET or any other corner of the media.
Reply to this comment
Digital, not necessarily HD
by CBSTV April 26, 2006 8:19 PM PDT
I'm glad to see this important point being made. Television stations
are not required to broadcast in high definition, only digital.
Stations can simply take their existing NTSC analog signal and
convert it to digital to satisfy the Federal requirements. This does
not mean having to buy new cameras, switchers and VTRs.

Incidentally, it was the broadcast TV community that originally
pushed for the switch to digital transmission. Then they proceeded
to drag their feet and ask for deadline extensions from the FCC.
Better Programming Needed
by john55440 April 26, 2006 7:57 AM PDT
A conversion from Analog Crap Programs to HDTV Crap Programs isn't going to solve TV's fundemental quality problem.
Reply to this comment
Better Programming Needed
by john55440 April 26, 2006 7:57 AM PDT
A conversion from Analog Crap Programs to HDTV Crap Programs isn't going to solve TV's fundemental quality problem.
Reply to this comment
EVGA community - "Of interest; Hp included."nValue" RF_News!
by Pop4 April 26, 2006 8:09 AM PDT
Sing a pretty song! Here is the Skin:
Peered though into a certified usb(x2) port, and reaped in my AquarisQ898911 (185k);you all should know this one by Guru3D.

Results; less a C:Drive<PMCIA of anykind, raised the glass ceiling and spread the 'rez' with amazing granuloure (french) footprint. Front panel not included.

LCD 20"
Reply to this comment
EVGA community - "Of interest; Hp included."nValue" RF_News!
by Pop4 April 26, 2006 8:09 AM PDT
Sing a pretty song! Here is the Skin:
Peered though into a certified usb(x2) port, and reaped in my AquarisQ898911 (185k);you all should know this one by Guru3D.

Results; less a C:Drive<PMCIA of anykind, raised the glass ceiling and spread the 'rez' with amazing granuloure (french) footprint. Front panel not included.

LCD 20"
Reply to this comment
HD is a Luxury
by brian.lee April 26, 2006 8:11 AM PDT
HD is a Luxury (as in expensive) that the average consumer does
not really "need" I can watch the game just fine on my regular non
HD TV. I really don't need to see the pours on the local weather
man's face. If they really want HD adoption, give me 45% off on my
old TV as a trade in. Until then I'll stick with what I currently have.
Reply to this comment
HD is a Luxury
by paulsecic April 26, 2006 3:53 PM PDT
I fully agree. With sattelite you must pay more for HD.
HD is a Luxury
by brian.lee April 26, 2006 8:11 AM PDT
HD is a Luxury (as in expensive) that the average consumer does
not really "need" I can watch the game just fine on my regular non
HD TV. I really don't need to see the pours on the local weather
man's face. If they really want HD adoption, give me 45% off on my
old TV as a trade in. Until then I'll stick with what I currently have.
Reply to this comment
HD is a Luxury
by paulsecic April 26, 2006 3:53 PM PDT
I fully agree. With sattelite you must pay more for HD.
Showing 1 of 3 pages (112 Comments)
advertisement

Latest tech news headlines

RSS Feeds

Add headlines from CNET News to your homepage or feedreader.

More feeds available in our RSS feed index.

advertisement