Comments on: Dimmer fades on desk-lamp iMac

It may have been "flat-out cool," but "flat" had also begun to describe sales of the just-discontinued second-generation iMac.

[rpms]

iMac wasn't competitive

It's unfortunate that the new iMac won't be ready in time for the back-to-school season.

But who cares? At $1300, the "entry-level" iMac costs too much to be a factor in the market. One can buy an entry-level PC for $500 (with a conventional CRT monitor, not an LCD flat panel, of course). The iMac is prettier, and the Macintosh OS may offer a better user experience than Windows, but is it worth the extra $800? Apple's declining market share tells us that consumers have answered with a resounding "no".

A smart consumer will say, "I use my computer to read e-mail, surf the Web, download music, and write letters. I don't care about processor speed, or about how pretty the case looks. I can get a decent PC for $900 and still save $400 off the cost of an iMac."

The smart consumer will also say, "Gee, computers become obsolete within a year or two. If I buy a PC, I can ditch it next year, but keep the expensive parts, like the monitor and the hard drive(s). For my next machine, I'll be able buy a stripped-down PC with no monitor and no drive. If I buy the iMac, I can't remove the monitor at all. Also, I won't be able to buy a stripped-down iMac with no monitor and no drives in the future. The PC will be a lot friendlier on my wallet, not to mention the environment."

Sampe configuration - PC

$449 - Dell Dimension 2400
$ 28 - Additional memory
$ 87 - Additional hard drive
$325 - 15-inch LCD flat panel monitor
------------------
$889 - Total

Specifications:

Dell Dimension 2400:
- processor: Intel Celeron (speed: 2.4 GHz)
- memory: 128 MB (bus speed: 266 MHz)
- hard drive: 40 GB (interface: ATA 100; rotation speed: 7200 RPM; buffer size: 2 MB)
- monitor: none
- warranty: basic 1-year
- optical drive: combo DVD-ROM and 48X CD-RW
- operating system: Windows XP Home
- application software: WordPerfect office suite

Additional memory:
- size: 128 MB
- bus speed: 266 MHz
- source: reputable online vendor

Additional hard drive
- size: 160 GB
- interface: ATA 100
- rotation speed: 7200 RPM
- buffer size: 2 MB
- source: reputable online vendor

iMac specifications:
$1,299.00
15-inch LCD
1GHz PowerPC G4
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
32MB DDR video memory
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA hard drive
Combo Drive
Apple Pro Speakers
AirPort Extreme Ready *

* This is a gimmick. You still have to buy the Airport Extreme Card for $79. Last week, OfficeMax was selling wireless cards for desktop PCs at $10 after rebate. Granted, they were 802.11b rather than 802.11g. (802.11g is a gimmick in and of itself. Typical DSL throughput ranges from 384 kbps to 1.5 Mbps. Who needs 54 Mbps wireless?)

Other observation:

Although there is no money to be made in the market for entry-level computers, Apple's philosophy relies so heavily on winning people over, and the best time to do that is when they buy their first computer. Then they may stick around and buy more expensive models in the future. Not having a viable entry-level machine is a disaster for Apple.

To pre-empt anti-Mac "flames": I use Windows, Macintosh OS, and Linux in my own home.

Another "it costs too much"

I am always surprised at the amount of people that believe that
Mac's are so over priced. In the last post there was a quote on a
dell machine as follows

Sampe configuration - PC

$449 - Dell Dimension 2400
$ 28 - Additional memory
$ 87 - Additional hard drive
$325 - 15-inch LCD flat panel monitor
------------------
$889 - Total

Specifications:

Dell Dimension 2400:
- processor: Intel Celeron (speed: 2.4 GHz)
- memory: 128 MB (bus speed: 266 MHz)
- hard drive: 40 GB (interface: ATA 100; rotation speed: 7200
RPM; buffer size: 2 MB)
- monitor: none
- warranty: basic 1-year
- optical drive: combo DVD-ROM and 48X CD-RW
- operating system: Windows XP Home
- application software: WordPerfect office suite

Additional memory:
- size: 128 MB
- bus speed: 266 MHz
- source: reputable online vendor

Additional hard drive
- size: 160 GB
- interface: ATA 100
- rotation speed: 7200 RPM
- buffer size: 2 MB
- source: reputable online vendor

This was then pegged against an iMac. This is wrong. It should
be pegged against an eMac. So here is my equivilant eMac

eMac
? 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
? ATI Radeon 9200 graphics processor with 32MB
? Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
? 256MB SDRAM DDR333 - 1 DIMM
? 40GB Ultra ATA drive
? AirPort Extreme Card (internal)
? Bluetooth Module (internal)
? Bluetooth Module + Apple Wireless Keyboard & Mouse

? Software
Mac OS X 10.3
Quicken for Mac (financial Software)
AppleWorks 6 (Office software)
World Book Encyclopedia
Sound Studio (easy digital audio editing)
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Deimos Rising
Mac OS X Chess.

Total price = $1,027.00

So yes this set up is $138 more expensive but it is more
comparable to the Dell machine and if you look at what you are
getting extra (wireless connection to Wifi networks and
Bluetooth connection to devices such as mobile phones,
Handhelds and the included keyboard and mouse then this
system rocks. Some might say that these systems are not as
fast as Intel/AMD systems. I once would have agreed, but since
my wife made me buy one because she liked it I have been a
convert. It does all the real world things that I want it to do. No
questions.

Everyone needs to make their own mind up on what they want
out of a computer but it does not help anyone to compare two
completelly different products (CTR Dell with a LCD iMac). It is
much better to compare the eMac with the Dell.

Oh Yeh. That whole like the separate component thing. Do you
also like all the extra cables. Remeber the eMac above would
only have a power cable. The Dell would have two Power cables,
A mouse cable and a keyboard cable. Also if you got a printer
you could also get a bluetooth USB printer adaptor for about
$30. That means that you computer is virtually cable free.
Surely that is something that almost everyone wants?

Another "it costs too much"

I am always surprised at the amount of people that believe that
Mac's are so over priced. In the last post there was a quote on a
dell machine as follows

Sampe configuration - PC

$449 - Dell Dimension 2400
$ 28 - Additional memory
$ 87 - Additional hard drive
$325 - 15-inch LCD flat panel monitor
------------------
$889 - Total

Specifications:

Dell Dimension 2400:
- processor: Intel Celeron (speed: 2.4 GHz)
- memory: 128 MB (bus speed: 266 MHz)
- hard drive: 40 GB (interface: ATA 100; rotation speed: 7200
RPM; buffer size: 2 MB)
- monitor: none
- warranty: basic 1-year
- optical drive: combo DVD-ROM and 48X CD-RW
- operating system: Windows XP Home
- application software: WordPerfect office suite

Additional memory:
- size: 128 MB
- bus speed: 266 MHz
- source: reputable online vendor

Additional hard drive
- size: 160 GB
- interface: ATA 100
- rotation speed: 7200 RPM
- buffer size: 2 MB
- source: reputable online vendor

This was then pegged against an iMac. This is wrong. It should
be pegged against an eMac. So here is my equivilant eMac

eMac
? 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
? ATI Radeon 9200 graphics processor with 32MB
? Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
? 256MB SDRAM DDR333 - 1 DIMM
? 40GB Ultra ATA drive
? AirPort Extreme Card (internal)
? Bluetooth Module (internal)
? Bluetooth Module + Apple Wireless Keyboard & Mouse

? Software
Mac OS X 10.3
Quicken for Mac (financial Software)
AppleWorks 6 (Office software)
iMovie (video editing software)
iCal (Calander software)
World Book Encyclopedia
Sound Studio (easy digital audio editing)
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Deimos Rising
Mac OS X Chess.

Total price = $1,027.00

So yes this set up is $138 more expensive but it is more
comparable to the Dell machine and if you look at what you are
getting extra. 17inch monitor instead of 15, great sounding
speakers, wireless connection to Wifi networks and Bluetooth
connection to devices such as mobile phones, Handhelds and
the included keyboard and mouse then this system rocks. Some
might say that these systems are not as fast as Intel/AMD
systems. I once would have agreed, but since my wife made me
buy one because she liked it I have been a convert. It does all
the real world things that I want it to do. No questions.

Everyone needs to make their own mind up on what they want
out of a computer but it does not help anyone to compare two
completelly different products (CTR Dell with a LCD iMac). It is
much better to compare the eMac with the Dell.

Oh Yeh. That whole like the separate component thing. Do you
also like all the extra cables. Remeber the eMac above would
only have a power cable. The Dell would have two Power cables,
A mouse cable and a keyboard cable. Also if you got a printer
you could also get a bluetooth USB printer adaptor for about
$30. That means that you computer is virtually cable free.
Surely that is something that almost everyone wants?

Another "it costs too much"

I am always surprised at the amount of people that believe that
Mac's are so over priced. In the last post there was a quote on a
dell machine as follows

Sampe configuration - PC

$449 - Dell Dimension 2400
$ 28 - Additional memory
$ 87 - Additional hard drive
$325 - 15-inch LCD flat panel monitor
------------------
$889 - Total

Specifications:

Dell Dimension 2400:
- processor: Intel Celeron (speed: 2.4 GHz)
- memory: 128 MB (bus speed: 266 MHz)
- hard drive: 40 GB (interface: ATA 100; rotation speed: 7200
RPM; buffer size: 2 MB)
- monitor: none
- warranty: basic 1-year
- optical drive: combo DVD-ROM and 48X CD-RW
- operating system: Windows XP Home
- application software: WordPerfect office suite

Additional memory:
- size: 128 MB
- bus speed: 266 MHz
- source: reputable online vendor

Additional hard drive
- size: 160 GB
- interface: ATA 100
- rotation speed: 7200 RPM
- buffer size: 2 MB
- source: reputable online vendor

This was then pegged against an iMac. This is wrong. It should
be pegged against an eMac. So here is my equivilant eMac

eMac
? 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
? ATI Radeon 9200 graphics processor with 32MB
? Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
? 256MB SDRAM DDR333 - 1 DIMM
? 40GB Ultra ATA drive
? AirPort Extreme Card (internal)
? Bluetooth Module (internal)
? Bluetooth Module + Apple Wireless Keyboard & Mouse

? Software
Mac OS X 10.3
Quicken for Mac (financial Software)
AppleWorks 6 (Office software)
iMovie (video editing software)
iCal (Calander software)
World Book Encyclopedia
Sound Studio (easy digital audio editing)
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Deimos Rising
Mac OS X Chess.

Total price = $1,027.00

So yes this set up is $138 more expensive but it is more
comparable to the Dell machine and if you look at what you are
getting extra. 17inch monitor instead of 15, great sounding
speakers, wireless connection to Wifi networks and Bluetooth
connection to devices such as mobile phones, Handhelds and
the included keyboard and mouse then this system rocks. Some
might say that these systems are not as fast as Intel/AMD
systems. I once would have agreed, but since my wife made me
buy one because she liked it I have been a convert. It does all
the real world things that I want it to do. No questions.

Everyone needs to make their own mind up on what they want
out of a computer but it does not help anyone to compare two
completelly different products (CTR Dell with a LCD iMac). It is
much better to compare the eMac with the Dell.

Oh Yeh. That whole like the separate component thing. Do you
also like all the extra cables. Remeber the eMac above would
only have a power cable. The Dell would have two Power cables,
A mouse cable and a keyboard cable. Also if you got a printer
you could also get a bluetooth USB printer adaptor for about
$30. That means that you computer is virtually cable free.
Surely that is something that almost everyone wants?

Sorry Read only the last "Another "it costs too much""

Sorry about giving three posts that were almost the same. I kept
on trying to tab and then pressing enter, hence the three posts.
The last post is the correct one.

[Brich]

Dell 2400 is a Non-Starter

That Dell 2400 is uncompetitive with a lowly eMac. The Dell has integrated video to begin with, and can't compare with the standard software that ships with an eMac. Couple that with the lack of any viruses or worms in the wild for Mac OSX, and the Mac alternative, out of the box, is well worth the initial cost difference. Heck, my son's G3 500 iMac with 512 mb of ram runs the latest version of Panther very well, and gives him and me absolutely no cause for the kind of spyware/infestation concerns that every Windows user needs to be alert to this very week. As a matter of perspective, I use and administer XP systems for 60% of my work day...the Mac is a very viable alternative!

[bcsaxman]

iMac an Incomplete Project

It would be a mistake for Apple to discontinue the 2nd Gen
iMac formfactor - just as it was a mistake to label it as a
replacement for the original iMac in the first place.

The first iMac was so successful not just because it looked
cool, but because it looked cool and solved a practical
problem. It eliminated cable clutter, provided a modicum of
mobility (room to room), was durable, reasonably priced,
and simple to set up. It was the perfect entry level machine,
and that's the reason why the eMac has been so successful.
It's the true successor to the original iMac due to the fact
that it's filling that still existing market role - better than
iMac2.

iMac2, on the otherhand, had nothing BUT good looks
going for it. That's why it sold so well right after it was
introduced. However, any product must have the 'legs' to
keep going after the 'wow' factor has faded. The iMac did
nothing better than the eMac, quite a few things not as well
as the PowerMac, and it's pricing was oblivious to this
reality. Use the iPod as an object lesson here; it's still going
strong with high prices because there's nothing quite as
good AND stylish with which to fill it's unique role (playing
music). The iMac2 only had style and high prices, thus it's
quick decline.

High prices aside, Apple needed to give the iMac2 a role in
life that would have set it apart from the everyday
computer, and thus justified it's flashy looks and 'digital
hub' ad line. Apple should have given it a TV tuner card,
maybe sattelite (or even old FM) radio capability, and truly
made it into a digital A/V lifestyle hub. Working at a
university, I can tell you that students in cramped dorms
would have snatched them up (epsecially after the iTunes
Store took off) since even a price Mac is still cheaper than a
decent PC, TV, and Stereo purchased seperately, plus you
get the space savings.

Hopefully Apple realizes some of this and is simply
upgrading their already spot on design. They don't need an
iMac3 (just give that name to the eMac for crying out loud)
... what they need is an iMac 2-based 'OmniMac'.