Comments on: Yang speaks on Yahoo's China policy
Yahoo co-founder Jerry Yang defends China practices, says executives feel "horrible" over arrests.
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Surely, the appropriate response to repressive governments is to impose trade sanctions on them in an effort to force them to change their ways. I mean, that's what we did to Iraq, North Korea and Cuba and are about to do to Iran. In the case of Iraq, we were prepared to let over a million Iraqi children die of preventable diseases rather than compromise our principles. The Chinese government has treated its people far worse than Saddam ever did (and over a far longer period). If we are morally outraged about the behaviour of foreign governments, surely we shouldn't want to have anything to do with them.
So what's different about China? Big bucks, that's what. All the talk about "making things better" over the long term is just eyewash. Yahoo!, Microsoft and the rest of them are in China to make money, and will do whatever they're told to do so they can keep riding the gravy train. Corporations only exist to make money, and pretending they're about anything else is pure fantasy. Therefore, we can't let corporations set foreign policy.
While Jerry Yang's stance is the pragmatic response of a business manager, it is not a moral stance. At best, it is amoral, at worst, he is collaborating in state repression.
People got executed for less at the end of WWII.
Surely, the appropriate response to repressive governments is to impose trade sanctions on them in an effort to force them to change their ways. I mean, that's what we did to Iraq, North Korea and Cuba and are about to do to Iran. In the case of Iraq, we were prepared to let over a million Iraqi children die of preventable diseases rather than compromise our principles. The Chinese government has treated its people far worse than Saddam ever did (and over a far longer period). If we are morally outraged about the behaviour of foreign governments, surely we shouldn't want to have anything to do with them.
So what's different about China? Big bucks, that's what. All the talk about "making things better" over the long term is just eyewash. Yahoo!, Microsoft and the rest of them are in China to make money, and will do whatever they're told to do so they can keep riding the gravy train. Corporations only exist to make money, and pretending they're about anything else is pure fantasy. Therefore, we can't let corporations set foreign policy.
While Jerry Yang's stance is the pragmatic response of a business manager, it is not a moral stance. At best, it is amoral, at worst, he is collaborating in state repression.
People got executed for less at the end of WWII.
He seems to see humans as sacrificial animals for his altar built with undeservedly earned tainted money.
Another sad example of the type of American businessman we can miss like a toothache, the unethical one.
Article 5. The state upholds the uniformity and dignity of the socialist legal system. No law or administrative or local rules and regulations shall contravene the constitution. All state organs, the armed forces, all political parties and public organizations and all enterprises and undertakings must abide by the Constitution and the law. All acts in violation of the Constitution and the law must be investigated. No organization or individual may enjoy the privilege of being above the Constitution and the law.
================================================
Last sentence says NO ONE Is above the Constitution and law. A call from the police or visit by an "official" DOES NOT constitutes a legal request for an IP address or user name.
Don't pander to us about following the local law, when it's clearly trampled all the time by the PARTY. They are clearly above the LAW and CONSTITUTION! You just want to money over life or liberty of your users in China
Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.
Seems similar to US constitution except placement.
Would you turnover a persons user data by a phone call or visit by an official of the US govt. without a warrent signed by a judge?
Leave China if you can't abide by her own law. You don't need Chinese blood money that badly, Do you?
Taken from:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21671210/
"Yang may wish Yahoo could do more in China. However, his company no longer has much influence in the country. In 2005, Yahoo merged its Chinese operations into Alibaba Group, a Chinese company that runs the e-commerce sites Alibaba.com and Taobao.com, paying $1 billion for a nearly 40% stake in the parent company.
Coincidentally, Alibaba.com held an initial public offering [http://BusinessWeek.com, 11/6/07|http://BusinessWeek.com, 11/6/07] of stock on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange on Nov. 6, the same day Yang will will be testifying before Congress. While the parent company will retain a majority interest in Alibaba.com after the IPO, Yahoo's sizable stake isn't big enough to control the Chinese site's policies. And the CEO of Alibaba.com and its parent has already asserted publicly that he plans to cooperate with Chinese authorities."
Yahoo merged it's operations in China with other company (Alibaba and Taobao). They are operating basically autonomously, like a local entity. Also, their stake in the newly formed merger isn't that great, so they don't hold enough clout to change the policy.
Furthermore, we're talking about the Chinese government here. As in, "we have no problems running over our own citizens with tanks and we don't care about human rights" type of government. They didn't need those emails to send that guy up the river. They could have come up with any number of excuses, that's the way they operate. Yang's getting caught up in all the crossfire. It's unfortunate for him cause he's a really good guy.
There's nothing Yang can do now except join the coalition against China's crappy human rights stance. IMO neither Yang nor Yahoo had anything to do with Shi Tao's imprisonment.
He seems to see humans as sacrificial animals for his altar built with undeservedly earned tainted money.
Another sad example of the type of American businessman we can miss like a toothache, the unethical one.
Article 5. The state upholds the uniformity and dignity of the socialist legal system. No law or administrative or local rules and regulations shall contravene the constitution. All state organs, the armed forces, all political parties and public organizations and all enterprises and undertakings must abide by the Constitution and the law. All acts in violation of the Constitution and the law must be investigated. No organization or individual may enjoy the privilege of being above the Constitution and the law.
================================================
Last sentence says NO ONE Is above the Constitution and law. A call from the police or visit by an "official" DOES NOT constitutes a legal request for an IP address or user name.
Don't pander to us about following the local law, when it's clearly trampled all the time by the PARTY. They are clearly above the LAW and CONSTITUTION! You just want to money over life or liberty of your users in China
Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.
Seems similar to US constitution except placement.
Would you turnover a persons user data by a phone call or visit by an official of the US govt. without a warrent signed by a judge?
Leave China if you can't abide by her own law. You don't need Chinese blood money that badly, Do you?
Taken from:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21671210/
"Yang may wish Yahoo could do more in China. However, his company no longer has much influence in the country. In 2005, Yahoo merged its Chinese operations into Alibaba Group, a Chinese company that runs the e-commerce sites Alibaba.com and Taobao.com, paying $1 billion for a nearly 40% stake in the parent company.
Coincidentally, Alibaba.com held an initial public offering [http://BusinessWeek.com, 11/6/07|http://BusinessWeek.com, 11/6/07] of stock on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange on Nov. 6, the same day Yang will will be testifying before Congress. While the parent company will retain a majority interest in Alibaba.com after the IPO, Yahoo's sizable stake isn't big enough to control the Chinese site's policies. And the CEO of Alibaba.com and its parent has already asserted publicly that he plans to cooperate with Chinese authorities."
Yahoo merged it's operations in China with other company (Alibaba and Taobao). They are operating basically autonomously, like a local entity. Also, their stake in the newly formed merger isn't that great, so they don't hold enough clout to change the policy.
Furthermore, we're talking about the Chinese government here. As in, "we have no problems running over our own citizens with tanks and we don't care about human rights" type of government. They didn't need those emails to send that guy up the river. They could have come up with any number of excuses, that's the way they operate. Yang's getting caught up in all the crossfire. It's unfortunate for him cause he's a really good guy.
There's nothing Yang can do now except join the coalition against China's crappy human rights stance. IMO neither Yang nor Yahoo had anything to do with Shi Tao's imprisonment.
People who don't have a clue as to the sacrifices made by others in order so that they could have freedom of expression.
A freedom they gleefully help the other governments deny others.
I think I am paraphrasing, but do we live in a generation that has no future and deserves none?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, the U.S. and China are bound to have a bad fight over human rights, we need to be united in our resolve to help preserve freedom of speech in China.
Not to hurt the Chinese government, but to help it shine a light on it's own deficience, and prevent kind of Nazi fanaticism that can occur when people are brainwashed into thinking their government is infallable.
- Yeah, feeling horrible all the way to the bank.
- by Jake Leone March 9, 2006 9:10 AM PST
- Such a spineless bunch of bratz run our internet companies.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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(18 Comments)People who don't have a clue as to the sacrifices made by others in order so that they could have freedom of expression.
A freedom they gleefully help the other governments deny others.
I think I am paraphrasing, but do we live in a generation that has no future and deserves none?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, the U.S. and China are bound to have a bad fight over human rights, we need to be united in our resolve to help preserve freedom of speech in China.
Not to hurt the Chinese government, but to help it shine a light on it's own deficience, and prevent kind of Nazi fanaticism that can occur when people are brainwashed into thinking their government is infallable.