Comments on: BlackBerry Curve outsells the iPhone 3G

Aggressive "buy one, get one" promotion by Verizon Wireless helps boost RIM's consumer BlackBerry market share by 15 percent for the first quarter, NPD says.

[gopnick]

It's the network, stupid. :)

[Dalmatian28]

Why is this surprise to anyone? There are people out there that aren't bored and actually trying to accomplish something every day. If that is your goal...Blackbarry (NOT the iPone) is your best friend . Not everyone wants to watch movies and listen to music. If you have every try to type anything on iPone you know what a junk those touch-screen keyboard are. I think that at the end of the day when all iPone hype cools down, most people will buy blackberry because for business it is much better device!

[KillersDad]

@ Dalmatian28

Hey don't blame your poor typing skills on the iPone's (sic) keyboard, nor can an iPone (sic) improve your subject/verb agreement either!

I don't watch movies or listen to music on my iPhone, it's my business line and email conduit when I'm away from my computer. Oh, and my calendar and my note-keeping device and occasionally my information access device via it's Safari web browser.

Didn't see a web browser on a Blackberry, but my iPone's (sic) got one!

[colamix]

@ KillersDad

A grammatical Nazi who can't construct a sentence properly, using 'and my' three times in the same sentence, shouldn't be criticizing others. Don't assume English is everyone's mother tongue. Oh, and you do realize you are the exception, not the rule, when it comes to business users having adopted the iPhone as their communication device.

[KillersDad]

@colamix

Gee, cmx, everywhere I read SPELLING and GRAMMAR are TWO different things! Why would you think of me as a great grammarian when I was pointing out his inept handling of his Blackberry keyboard.

And, RE: "Oh, and you do realize you are the exception, not the rule, when it comes to business users having adopted the iPhone as their communication device."

ahem - http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2009/tc2009054_744579.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_top+story

[mynameiscoffey]

actually there are also people out there who communicate in multiple languages and the iPhone (and other touch screen phones I'm sure) have a unique ability to be able to dynamically change the keyboard/input on the fly. I can't switch between English, German, Spanish and Korean on the BlackBerry (actually with Verizon I can't even text in any of the non-English languages even if the keyboard let me, as non-English characters, such as accents, umlauts and ligatures don't transmit on their SMS network). That feature has made a touchscreen, even tho it may be worse for typing a single language, vastly superior for multilingual individuals.

[rapier1]

I'm feeling that quite a few people aren't as wedded to the idea of 'iPhone forever' as others are. What's hot in a phone tends to shift over time and the majority of people seem more than willing to jump onto the next 'hot' phone with barely a second glance. This isn't to say anything bad about the iPhone - only that its probably as much at the mercy of consumer trends as any other commodity electronic device.

[KillersDad]

This isn't about what's HOT. It's about what's CHEAP. The tell here is that while Blackberry hold 4 of the top 5 positions, the #2 phone, the iPhone SOLD against virtually free phones.

The real question is, "Why didn't Blackberry win all the top positions?

[myles taylor]

I don't agree with that. If you were to pool iPhone users you'd probably find that most people who didn't return it in the first 90 days are likely to stay with it. They're likely to hop to the next model but I doubt they'll hop away without a second glance. I doubt many (if any) of those Blackberry Curve sales were people migrating from the iPhone. They were people upgrading their phones because it was cheap.

[supoman]

Agree with Myles. People were buying the Curve because it's the cheapest that VZW has ever sold them and the first time they've ever gave them away. You can't beat free!!

[ibrocky]

It's not a shift. Many buyers looking to purchase an iPhone is waiting for the new iPhone to come out in June. Thats only a month and a half away. An iphone user won't "shift" or move over to another phone.... especially to a blackberry.

[markitwatch]

I used the iPhone for 2 months and couldn't take using its annoying keyboard and non-robust email app, so I downgraded to a Backberry 8700c that was 2 years old, yet still made me smile. The iPhone is a fad, plain and simple, and it may have gotten too big too fast. We'll see...

[renGek]

well the iphone could be cheaper if they didn't make you pay the premium for its paltry video capabilities that nobody I know have used beyond viewing 3 minute video clips. So knock off $150 on the iphone and maybe people will think its a good deal.

[KillersDad]

Wow, is the whole world really this dense? While Blackberry market share 'surged' on the B1G1Free promotion, RIM and Blackberry gained market share not by EARNING MARKET SHARE, but by BUYING market share.

If you build a better mousetrap, the whole world will beat a path to your door. IF YOU'RE GIVING THAT MOUSETRAP AWAY, YOU WON'T HAVE A DOOR FOR VERY LONG.

I don't want a free mousetrap. I don't want a mousetrap for less than the cost to manufacture. I want a mousetrap from a company that makes a reasonable profit, services what it sells and reinvests in product improvement and product line expansion.

That's the way I run my business, too.

[Daturze]

Not sure I'd agree with your mousetrap analogy completely. You're assuming that the value is the mouse trap, where I suspect the value is in the contract for the device, and in creating a larger audience for their little app store to generate more revenue.

Game consoles sell at a loss (not counting the Wii of course) in order to sell the profitable games and accessories, I see this as being the model RIM has taken.

[Rolker]

I don't understand what is the problem with this selling method. Cheap phones sell, just look at the non-smart phones market - it is significantly bigger than the smart phone market.
You also forget that the Blackberry is a great phone, which gives you everything that you need from a cell phone.
There are other options, which are not inferior to the iphone. In some cases they even surpass the iphone.
And don't forget that this is just for the U.S. market. Outside the U.S. there other manufacturers (Nokia, Samsung, LG, etc.) which are good as well.

[qdenning]

This would be true except RIM's profits are WAY UP! Source: http://www.mobiledia.com/news/69444.html
Also, just because Verizon gave the devices away doesn't mean RIM gave the devices away. Verizon still had to purchase them from RIM.

What it really means is that more & more people are switching from their "dumb" phones to smart phones like the iPhone & Blackberry. It's also impressive that Apple can capture that much market share so quickly, and impressive that BlackBerry can earn it's way into the consumer device market when it was traditionally seen as a strictly business/corporate device.

Bottom line: both are great, it's fun having choices!!

[jypeterson]

@qdenning

Yes, RIM's profits are up. Here is why: the telecoms buy the phones from the manufacturer and subsidize the phones to customers. RIM no longer has control over their hardware at this point. More likely than not, RIM did probably reduce the price of the phones to the carriers, which enabled them to offer "free" phones to consumers and bringing about this short term gain on units sold.

As most people understand it, the subsidized phone really isn't free. You end up paying for it through your monthly fees. As for the hardware costs, RIM is still making money by clearing out its inventories by offering them at lower prices to carriers.

It is very difficult for hardware companies to continue buy one, get one sales on a long term basis. If RIM doesn't spend money to keep improving their products, people won't even take free ones later on.

[flatrock19]

The BlackBerry Curve costs considerably less to manufacture than the iPhone. The Perl far less. I believe the Storm costs less as well, though I doubt by as much.

However what you pay for a phone when you buy it from a carrier isn't the real price. The carrier subsidizes the price and makes the money back from the monthly service fees. AT&T's subsidy for the iPhone was rumored to be around $325. That mean that 16 GB iPhone you pay $200 for really costs $525.

Getting two Blackberry Storms for $200 doesn't mean they are really being sold as half off, because that ignores the subsidy. It means you get $100 off on each one if you buy two, but it is more like selling two phones that cost a slightly less to build for $425 each. It's also harder for two people to switch carriers than one, so there is a slightly higher likelihood that they will retain those customers longer. There is also a greater chance that a Blackberry user will be signing up for a more expensive enterprise data plan which makes selling Blackberries more appealing to the carrier.

IPhone users tend to use a lot of data, putting strain on the carriers network, but they don't use the premium enterprise data plans, so while having more customers are desirable, carriers would likely prefer more Blackberry users than iPhone users, including AT&T.

[renGek]

You mean like how every carrier will sell you a phone for $50 or less if you sign a 2 year contract with them....that kind of giveaway thats been helping their business ??

[KillersDad]

@Daturze

Gee, can't a mousetrap analogy apply to the entire experience of the product and service? iPhone's without cellular service and/or wi-fi service aren't even good doorstops. I didn't think I needed to differentiate the iPhone from it's attendant cellular service nor it's implicit wi-fi service.

And other things analogous to the iPhone and it's attendant services would be HP Computers, sold inexpensively but paired with outrageously expensive ink cartridges. Game consoles are another comparable product.

But when you look at the RIM/Verizon sell-off of Blackberries in a B1G1F marketing effort, who's the winner? RIM? I hardly think so. If I were Verizon, I'd have negotiated a sweetheart deal for the Blackberry products I was giving away.

Subsidized cellular phones have been a mainstay of the industry and actually makes sense when considering the phone company's need to update it's user owned devices, but to give away product and claim market share is not analogous to the headline and discussion the writer presents in this blog. BlackBerry Curve outsells the iPhone 3G is disingenuous marketing hype for RIM.

[pentest]

HP computers use ink cartridges?

[make_or_break]

Sounds like typical Apple fanboyism...

If the Curve is indeed garbage, then it won't sell no matter the price. Fact is, most people discover that it's actually good enough for what they need it for. The 2-4 deals only sweeten the pot...and considering that in the end it's ALL about getting people to sign up the cell phone service and not necessarily the phones themselves, I'd say RIM has managed to do pretty well for itself, particularly in light of their profit and market surge.

Besides, who says RIM isn't getting a chunk of cash for all of those freebies THE CARRIERS are choosing to give away? And who says RIM isn't getting a chunk of the monthly charges...just like Apple does from AT&T.

Apple has to wonder if these 'exclusive' carrier deals are really more harmful than helpful in gaining market share. For a lot of us, the CARRIER (and any subsequent satisfaction/loyalties) is still the primary concern when picking any cell phone.

[jinx101a]

But I won't know how to live my life if my iPhone isn't there to tell me what I should be eating and where I should be going.

[myles taylor]

Like I said above, these are most likely new smartphone owners. I doubt any of these people migrated from the iPhone. These are people who could never afford a smartphone before. Go RIM though!

[Random_Walk]

Agreed - I still have a Crackberry, as it's a solid, relatively cheap phone that does everything I currently want it to do (plus, my corp is on T-Mobile, not AT&T... so justification would be very hard to come by).

The one question I have though is, where's Windows Mobile on the list? Did they even make the top 10? The top 25?

Same with Palm and Symbian, come to think of it. They seem nowhere to be found.

[Kyanar]

Actually, Random_Walk, they aren't on the list because it's phone marketshare, not operating system marketshare.

[sartor1]

Those figures will shift once the new iPhone comes out, with it's 3.0 software.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Will it? The iPhone's been out long enough that unless they can somehow add something that is a real groundbreaker that those who jumped ship would have by now already. Sure, you'll get a few more, and you'll get the returning 1st gen phone users whose contracts are expiriing, but what else can you add to the unit to make it seem any better to the average peson than it is now? Teleportation?

I dare say even the average person on the street, if asked, would not be able to tell the difference between the 1st and 2nd generation iPhones, let alone even that there is a difference.

[aMUSICsite]

That's what I was thinking. Some people will be holding off for the new iPhone and Apple is probably running stocks down in the run up to the new hardware. Did not the same happen just before the 2nd Gen iPhone? I'm sure I remember other phone companies jumping on the iPhone are not selling bandwagon when Apple announced the 2nd gen phone. Then once they released it the sales went through the roof again.

[make_or_break]

There would need to be something groundbreaking to get any serious sales bump with the next-gen iPhone. The second-gen had 3G networking speed over sloth-like EDGE going for it...all other improvements paled in comparison; what exactly would 3.0 have that has that sort of 'gotta-have-it', pull-them-in appeal? Plus, a fair amount of 3G phone biuyers were first-gen iPhone users.

If anything, I still think Apple needs to address the downmarket side more than anything else. Most people don't want $100/mo service plans, no matter how "kewl" the handheld may ultimately be. Get a device that addresses that end of the market, then Apple has a great chance to truly rule.

[Lydia222]

This is no conundrum but a simple result of 2 facts.

Two for one deals always bubble sales figures.

And people just cringe and wince at the thought of having
to sign any contract with ATT.
Verizon, with all of it's woeful deceptions, is still a better carrier than
ATT and everyone is aware of it.
If Apple was able to unleash itself from this sinking ship,...there would
be no contest whatsoever on the sales of the Iphone.....

[ashutoshs]

I think what RIM and Verizon are ending up doing is either knowingly (or may be unknowingly) converting a majority of normal phone users into smartphone users.
This will certainly help them (RIM and VZN) but at the same time it will help a significant no. of users in finding a middle step before buying an expensive phone like iPhone or storm. this is ending up removing that price barrier which prevented them from experiencing these phones and the services they come with.

-AP

[mchenzaie]

The real issue is that iPhone users are just waiting for the next version to come out!

[trewbux]

I agree- I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of sale statistics relative to the product launch

[ikramerica--2008]

I am waiting. Have been for months. Will be one of the "early adopters" of iPhone V3, finally putting my Sony phone to bed...

[renGek]

why doesn't apple come out with a new iphone every 8 months? fanboys are gonna buy it no matter what. They don't even need new features. Just make some software updates and change the color or shape of the box that comes with the phone.

[Seaspray0]

It's not the only issue. There's alot of factors involved and you can't just pick one and ignore the rest. That would be stupid. For instance, the fact that blackberry is offering a 2 for 1 is also important.

[pwb9]

It's conventional wisdom that people will quickly move on to the latest and greatest. And it is very likely wrong in this case.

[rshah29]

Promotions like these by RIM show weakness.

[qdenning]

It was a VERIZON promotion -- not a RIM promotion. You can get BlackBerrys on many carriers including ATT. Verizon was the ONLY one with a BOGO sale.
Doesn't show RIM weakness, it shows aggressive sales tactics by Verizon.

[Vegaman_Dan]

The fact that it works also show there is a strong demand for the devices- enough to make them #1 in fact. That's hardly something you would want to qualify as being weak.

[jaxstephens]

I'm surprised the T-Mobile G1 was in the top 5. You don't hear much about it outside of tech circles like this, so I would not have guessed that at all.

[The_happy_switcher]

They've won a battle--they are LOSING the war. The apps for the iPhone are going to propel it to #1 for good.

[flatrock19]

Only if they start filling hole in missing features.

The iPhone has a good web browser and slick interface however it needs to actually be able to do things like run background apps, print to a network printer, and connect to files on a wireless network to name a few things.

Why do they also not have a first party turn by turn GPS yet?

They seem to be addressing some obvious shortcomings like the lack of cut and paste. Playing adobe flash seems to be beyond the capabilities of the current hardware, though the built in app for viewing YouTube videos works well, so maybe custom apps can fill part of that hole.

The interface on the iPhone was a big step in the right direction, and the marketing of it to the masses has been brilliant. However, it isn't a huge step beyond it's competition, and Apple places a lot of limitations on what applications can be run on it.

There is a lot of room for competitors to chip away at Apple's prominence.

Apple's biggest advantage is definitely their App store. However, Apple's limitations on it also leave a lot of room for competitors to make inroads there as well.

Apple makes solid producets and are great at marketing high end consumer products, but RIM has done a better job at addressing the needs of enterprise business users. As the Smart Phone market matures I suspect it will start looking a lot more like the PC market. Apple will have a nice niche with high end consumer products, but with have trouble with the enterprise and the value markets.

[renGek]

I don't understand the logic in iphone apps. Why go backwards in the tech world from web apps back to proprietary local apps. makes no sense especially since many of these apps have free equivalents already on the web.

[Vegaman_Dan]

With the way that Apple is really annoying and causing trouble for the developers, it's hard to say how long that will stay that way. When Apple turns down an app for NiN's music as a standalone app citing that the content is offensive, and yet they sell the very same album in iTunes, you have a double standard.

When Apple can actively sell an application that simulates child abuse and murder but only pulls it after it hits the news and there is a public outcry, then you have to question the process in which they vet their applications. They say that every single app goes through an approval process and yet.... yeah.

Some developers are crying foul because an app they create adds functionality to the phone, it's sold for a year, then gets yanked by Apple without warning or explanation, then magically that same functionality gets added to the OS itself. Those same developers feel that they are doing the dev work for Apple free while Apple then rips them off.

That's the sort of thing Apple is up against.... Apple's biggest challenge to success is Apple themselves. :/

[codynews]

iPhone = By FAR the better phone, but its $ (both the phone and the plan) and you have to go with ****** AT&T

Blackberry = Sucky phone (I've used tons of them ladies and gentlemen and the iphone way better), but you can get them cheap (see Verizon BOGO) and Verizon is way better than AT&T

I ended up switching to AT&T for the iphone but it was painful. I'm glad I did but I also wish Verizon would get the iphone so I could switch back.

[Understarsidream]

Sorry.. but Verizon is horrible. I don't care if the phone is free or not - their customer service is still horrible (and their network is the same as all the other carriers since all they all contract with the same tower companies).

[mikehill33]

a smart phone isn't so smart without basic word processing functionality.

CUT, COPY, PASTE for life!!!!

And I don't care what stupid hacky app I can buy, I want it right out of the box!!!

[Teeple]

I suspect this long-winded argument against the iPhone will be null and void come July 2009 with the advent of 3.0 Software update.

[Seaspray0]

While not available now, the next revision of the iphone software (comming soon) is supposed to include the copy and paste. You get to complain only until then.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Enterprise users are a big chunk of RIM sales. Blackberry units support Exchange and are business class units for both application and security. The iPhone is very much a consumer only device at this point, but that may change in the future.

That said, my next phone will likely be an iPhone when it comes out in a month or two. I have never liked the Blackberry line's phsyical hardware designs. I feel like I'm playing a hand held video game instead of a PDA / phone.

[The_happy_switcher]

I'd be happy to autograph your new iPhone for you.

[Vegaman_Dan]

AppleRocks1963 wrote:

"I'd be happy to autograph your new iPhone for you."

Thanks for the offer, but I shall decline- I don't want the phone to be devalued by such actions.

[Seaspray0]

Actually, with the addition of activesynch, the iphone will synchronize directly with microsoft exchange servers. There are a few limitations to this... it doesn't synch the contact list and a few other items (which means the user has to synch them through a corporate computer loaded with itunes and IT departments aren't too happy about that). Also, they do not meet the security requirements of many companies as corporate phones/email devices. Whether the iphone is acceptable as a corporate phone is entirely based on the individual company and its needs and policies. The corporate user seldom has a say in that decision (company needs/rules takes priority).

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Seaspray0

The iPhone/Touch Exchange support does actually sync with contacts and your Exchange account, but like the rest of the iPhone's email app, doesn't let you do anything offline except read messages. You can't create, delete, or modify content. Even foldes in your Inbox require you to be online to access them. There is no synch with the notes in Outlook either, which is something I REALLY wish there was.

But it is nice to see calendar entries get sycnched up and geeting to my corporate Exchange mail even on a Touch is pretty nice.

The unit is *not* secure though. Yes, you do have to add a PIN to start the unit if you have Exchange enabled, but the unit sends everything in the clear, no encryption, and everythihng is done as root. It wouldn't take a hacker of much talent to write up a bit of fluff to use an iPhone as a bridge between a corporate network and their own private one, which is an IT security nightmare.

[Synthmeister]

But, but, but Apple and RIMs "closed" model is doomed, I tell you. WinMobile and Android and Symbian are supposed to lead us to the open promised land overflowing with milk and honey and hardware and software.

What happened to the prophecies? The sacred writings? The holy oracles? The ancient analyst soothsayers?

[Seaspray0]

They were smashed on the side of the mountain by the ISP when the people sinned and googled. They were cast out and wandered silicon valley for many years looking for the land of software and networking.

[Teeple]

So, we have a B1G1 Free Promo, access to the top 4 carriers (Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile and AT&T) and we are supposed to look at this 'upset' as a surprise?

I agree with some of you - the promo was good for blackberry - what do they care if the curve is a slightly inferior product and slower than their newer siblings (the BOLD is really nice and really fast). All they care about is increasing their market share - and fleshing out their App store too.

Now - if Apple were to start selling their devices independent of any specific carrier and for the current 199.00/unit, I suspect Apple would have no problem increasing their reach even further than they have. Bad for Apple by limiting themselves to one vendor, for now.

OS 3.0 will be out soon and that will undoubtedly cause a minor resurgence in the sales figures.

[ikramerica--2008]

Very true. If/when the iPhone goes "wide" it will immediately have a 100% increase in sales, if not more. And even now, as the iPhone is approaching 2 years old, you will continue to see "switchers" to AT&T as their various 2-year contracts at other carriers expire. Combine that with the $99 version rumored to be coming, and the iPhone will continue to grow despite a lack of 2 fer sales.

[bschmidt25]

I would suspect that this has more to do with Verizon wanting to clear out some inventory for the new Curve than RIM wanting to sell an inferior device. I'm actually VERY happy with my Verizon Curve. Best phone I've owned IMHO and I've had Windows Mobile devices from all carriers and Palm Treos when they were relevant. I have not owned an IPhone yet. The Curve does everything I need it to and more and can take a beating, the one thing I'd be most worried about with an iPhone.

[CCW66]

Verizon needed a better smart phone. Verizon passed up the iphone and this hurt sales. I would like to see who stays with AT&T if Verizon gets the iphone.