Comments on: Why my cable DVR stinks

Are viewers better served by set-top boxes or dumbed-down terminals? TV providers look into it.

[wernerlin]

that's the way the business *used* to work

It's exactly because of this issue that the CableCard standard was created: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD . With CableCard, you can get digital cable content onto 3rd party devices, like, say, TiVo Series 3: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060719-7304.html . Though, of course, like everyone else, I'll get excited about the Series 3 only if and when someone actually gets their hands on one and can post a review...

[Mystigo]

Scientific Atlanta Engineers

I have seen some of the inner workings at Scientific Atlanta.
Their software engineering groups are the suit-and-tie
Dilbertesque kind of outfits, more suited to a Telco or bank,
than to a commercial software enterprise. Additionally many of
them are young, inexperienced, or H-1B, the company being
VERY reluctant to pay the kinds of salaries required for long
experience and proven ability. Having cut my teeth at a Telco
right out of college, I can say that most software groups
organized in this fashion, usually have one or two bright
engineers that carry what they can of the project for a year or
two, and then flee to the Adobes, Apples, and Microsofts of the
world as soon as they can. Thus the projects tend to cycle over
time as new talented engineers train up and make real
contributions towards the end of their stay, and then, when the
engineer leaves, the project languishes and falls into disrepair.
The net result is that the projects never work properly, and in a
great many cases eventually just get abandoned in favor of
commercial solutions, if they exist. I would not be surprised if
TiVO software ends up on many cable DVRs over the coming
years.

[Don Key]

Tivo records two channels at once, and has done HD for about a year

Why are there sooooo many uninformed users here? Tivo can... and does:

Record two channels at once
Record in HD
Doesn't require a credit card

DirecTV has had these options for years.

[mnbulldog]

This is NOT a Tivo box

It simply uses Tivo technology licensed by DirecTV but requires a DirecTV subscription. People are not uninformed - they are talking about stand alone Tivo units.

[pnoeric]

hello, TiVO!

how an entire article can be written about DVR interface issues and not mention THE DVR, TiVO, is beyond me.

needless to say, the award-winning TiVO interface blows the doors off every cable-DVR interface I've seen. it's smart, intiutive and very, very easy.

and it works!

[theKingRich]

TiVo STILL the BEST!

TiVO is STILL THE BEST DVR out there!
I too was scanning the article for the TiVo words. Then I was kinda baffled that it wasn't in there... at all!
I recently moved and could only get DirecTV because the Adelphia franchise here is managed under a bankrupcy court, hence their horrible offering.
Now, my DirecTV DVR lacks MOST of the features that my old TiVo had (left to my Mom). After a couple of recordings, it has become Slow, and annoying.
Now, if only TiVo could get out of the Hardware business and become a Software License vendor ONLY, and leave the hardware up to Sony, Philips, etc, we'd have a Killer TiVo!

[mnbulldog]

Sci Atl Makes WORST DVR EVER

Sci Atl has NO clue how a DVR should work. They need to team up with Tivo or MS. I have owned DVR's from RCA (Microsoft UTV), Hughes (Tivo), DishNetwork, Replay, Tivo, and Sci Atl.

Without a doubt the Sci Atl is the biggest piece of junk in the world. Constantly freezing, skips recordings, you can't start watching a show from the beginning while it is recording, horrible GUI, etc. I could go on and on.

UltimateTV (very similar to MS Media Center MyTV) was by far the best and most intuitive just edging out TIVO for ease and speed of use.

TIVO does rule now (only because MS decided to dump UTV for some reason)- except very slow on DirecTV HD DVR's.

Anything - and I mean anything is better than a Sci Atl DVR. Dish's new HD PVR series is suppose to be pretty nice but I have not seen it. And of course, DirecTV is releasing the NDS HD DVR sometime this fall - finally - to replace the TIVO based units.

If you never used any other DVR you might not know how bad a Sci Atl box is. However, anyone that thinks these boxes work well has clearly NEVER used any other DVR or they would be dropping these boxes on their cable companies doorsteps.

What happen to Comcast deal with TIVO?

[WJeansonne]

Windows Media PC to the Rescue!

Dedicate a Windows Media Center PC to the task and your problems are over. Seriously, it is an extremely robust system that is realiable and fun to use. I tried a Tivo first--it totally sucked--perhaps because it relied on Linux for an OS. It needed constant rebooting and never worked reliably. Next I tried a Replay TV which was awesome compared to Tivo (including commercial skip!). The only reason I gave Replay up was because of the Media Center's feature set and limitless capacity for storing recorded T.V. and serving up music, photos and video, DVD--the list goes on. This interface will even show original air dates for TV shows which is a cool feature.

[Zymurgist]

Media Center PC - forget it.

Media Center PC is no replacement.

If you are going to go that route, you can build
up a Windows or Linux system with any of the
free or commercial PVR packages available and
have something far easier to use, more reliable,
with a boat-load more features (and -- for you
theming nuts -- far more personalizable too).

Media Center PC is very much like what the cable
companies give you save that it doesn't hide
that it's Windows.

Also, I don't think that TiVO users care what
the underlying OS is. It's only important in
that it makes it cheap and reliable. The UI and
service have no relationship to the OS.

[megazone]

Reinventing the wheel

There have already been a number of 'Buy TiVo' posts. And while that's a viable solution for many, the real issue is the continued effort to reinvent the wheel. There are companies that are experts at creating DVR interfaces - TiVo, ReplayTV, and Digeo/Moxi. All three have, to various degress of success, licensed their software to others. ReplayTV has pretty much fallen out of the market, but TiVo and Moxi are still players. Instead of reinventing the wheel with home-brewed software, duplicating work already done - and done better - by these vendors, why not just license the software?

TiVo is bringing their software to the Motorola DVR platform for Comcast, and it is available for other cable MSOs. We've had TiVo on DirecTV systems, though they're stupidly moving to an inferior home-grown system. (Yes, the new software is from NDS - NDS is owned by News Corp, which owns DirecTV.) Moxi is also available on some Motorola systems.

All of these other companies are spending money to develop software which doesn't even perform at the same levels TiVo was at 4 years ago. Some competition is good, but it doesn't make sense for everyone to try to put out their own home-brew solution. Any more than we needed 10+ flavors of UNIX fragmenting the market. That same money could be invested in adding more features and improving the product. Let the hardware vendors do what they do best - design and build hardware. Offer a choice of software like TiVo or Moxi. Standardize on some interfaces, like the PC industry, and the STB industry would be transformed.

[mnbulldog]

Second That

Agreed - although I would through Microsoft's DVR software into the mix (same that is in Media Center) which I feel is personally better than Tivo in many respects. But agree that they should be licensing from companies that know how to do it rather than designing severly inferior products (although I haven't seen th NDS products yet - waiting on their HD DVR).

[mnbulldog]

Second That

Agreed - although I would throw Microsoft's DVR software into the mix (same that is in Media Center or was used in UltimateTV) which I feel is personally better than Tivo in many respects. But agree that they should be licensing from companies that know how to do it rather than designing severly inferior products (although I haven't seen th NDS products yet - waiting on their HD DVR).

[umbrae]

Well...

If it runs on a PC and is free, then fine... Otherwise, we need another wheel because those don't fit my car.

[AngelaStarbright]

REPLAY IS THE BEST

I have had a Replay TV machine Since Janarury of 2000. The harddrive crashed in about April 2003 but I had a warrenty on it and sent it back in and it worked until I decided to replace it with new model that could be networked. I haven't had any issues with the newer machine at all since last year. If you are at all inclined towards computer hardware you can prevent a breakdown and be back up and running if it does break down it a manner of 30 minutes.

I replaced the 40 GB drive in both of my Replay's with 160 GB drives and can store complete seasons of several shows.

There is much more support out there for Replay and *ack* *ack* Tivo than the Cable DVR's and if you want a good system for about the same price that is more reliable and scalable I suggest going with a ReplayTV. It is Networkable, so you can record a show in the bedroom and watch in the family room. So if you want to record conflicting shows and watch them both from your easy chair in the family room you can.

I LOVE REPLAY TV. I hate watching regular TV any more. I find myself reaching for the remote to rewind or pause it even at friends house that don't have it.

[m.meister]

Two Years and Nothing has changed

I wrote about this in my blog almost two years ago.

<http://provokethought.blogspot.com/2004/09/this-aint-no-
tivo.html>

So apparently things have not gotten better. The reality is that
cable DVRs are crap because the cable company is looking for
the cheapest option out there without regard to the quality of
service. The only think that might drive them to fix the problems
is if their support centers are constantly tied up with the same
issue. Even then, I think they rely on the unholy wait times
(average wait time with Time Warner Austin was 30 minutes).

For the record, I've also used Comcast's DVR which likes to lock
up at least 2-3 times a week. Just freezes.

While not perfect, Tivo remains the best option. I keep praying
for their OpenCable version so I can tell the cable company to
stick their crappy excuse for a DVR.'

[Raemir]

Intelegent Network?

"Much more important than deploying simpler devices in people's homes, Whitton said, is providing enough intelligence in the network to allow service providers to troubleshoot devices remotely."

The last thing I want is any "intelligence" built into the network. A "dumb" network is a neutral network! I can just see Verizon controling a smart network and saying, sorry, but we don't allow that!

[Amigoid]

Network Based Video recording old news

I used to work for iMagicTV in Canada before the dot-bomb nuked almost all the US employees. They were showing this whole idea of Video Recording on demand over the network years ago. As for Windows Media Center, no friggin way, man. Their DRM is way too draconian for something that is being broadcast. Give me a non-handicapped ATI all-in-wonder card and I'd rather roll my own. Funny thing is, I still use my 4-head vcr. No DRM there. Then again, I don't watch a lot of TV anymore. Smallville, Beauty and the Geek, and the local news, so thats not much of a load for a DVR. Rather just read Sabrina-Online.com

[humnicky]

Just Get TiVo...

I've used Comcast's DVR...it was horible.
I've used Replay TV...it was a joke.

Just get a TiVo.

[mjm01010101]

Screw DVR's

youtube and/or bittorrent gets my content for me.

[aSiriusTHoTH]

we all cant be theives..

Yea.. and we all can't be pirating theives...

[bourgtai]

I remember the dark ages...

Circa 1996, when I wanted to watch an episode of Seinfeld, I had to be home at the time that Seinfeld was on. And that wasn't easy, let me tell you!

Yes sir, I just wish that there was some kind of device that could have recorded television back then, even if it was on magnetic tape, I would've taken it.

[wooledge001]

Get a VCR

I use a VCR, I watch programs when I want, I fast forward, skipping the commercials, and it always works.

[Had_to_be_said]

It wont work when...

..."television" goes completely digital.

(Mandated by law)


..."Analog outputs" are gone...

(soon to be mandated by law, and manufacterers)


...ALL "devices capable of receiving television" are strictly controlled by legal, and technological, means...

(soon to be mandated by law, and manufacterers)


...you simply can no longer buy "VCR" equipment or supplies.

(soon to be implemented by manufacterers and retailers)


In short...

"Betamax" overturned...

"Consumer control" gone...

"Fair use", just a memory...

Depressed by reality, ...yet..?

[Stormspace]

VCR has issues

I used a VCR for a long time and only since 2004 did I start using a TiVo. Here are the issues I had with the VCR.

1. Power outtages - These would wipe the clock out. Even putting a UPS on it didn't solve the problem if the outtage was longer than the battery could handle.

2. Tape Management - I found that I wanted all of one show on a single tape, so I had to constantly shuffle tapes around to maintain an archive. Shuffling files around is much easier, as is burning them to DVD without commercials.

3. Commercial skip - My VCR had a 30 second commerical skip feature but if you overshot the mark getting back was a PITA. Also overall performance with magnetic tape is much slower than hard drive access.

4. Lineup/showTime changes - With a VCR I had to be on top of any show time or channel line up changes, and often I only had a days notice of the change. TiVo updates automatically when a show changes time or your cable lineup changes.

5. Encores - VCR's were a bear to manage and required quite a bit of research if you wanted to catch an encore at another time. TiVo will grab the show if it wasn't able to record it earlier.

6. Space - My VCR at most would only record 8 hours of programming on one tape. My TiVo does 180 hours. Now I'd never watch 180 hours of TV in a month, but now everyone in the family can have there own set of shows available when they want them. We also save up shows and have a marathon once or twice a year with shows like Survivor and Big Brother where the whole family gets together to watch. We can also archive shows to watch during the summer of during reruns periods and there is always a good movie on.

[lrblandon]

DVR Issue from Time Warner!!!Me too!!

It's not an isolated issue as they stated. Just last night my DVR
reset and I lost the entire channel guide. The Scientific Atlanta box
is the worst piece of equipment I have ever used not to mention
how much it digitizes my recorded shows as well the studdering
while watching live tv. I have a Tivo HD DVR with Direct TV (HR
10-250) which is 100 times more reliable. Now if they would be
able to improve the speed of the guide, then it would be 1000
times better.

[baylorcadet09]

Amen to that!

I completely agree! We just made the transition over from DirecTV's Hughes HD box to Time Warner's Scientific America box and it seems soo inferior!

I just wrote a post below about it actually...

[badflounder]

WRONG

When you buy directv equipment you OWN IT. You do NOT have to return it.

[chuck_whealton]

My DVR is pretty bad also...

I have one of the old RCA 7000N models. I got it because I'll be darned if I'm going to let Tivo (or their like) extract dollars from me on a monthly basis after I've already shoveled out dollars for their unit.

No question, it could be better. But in the end, it's like a super long VCR tape, so I stick with it.

If they finally come out with something DECENT where they're not trying to eek every last cent they can out of you on a monthly basis, I'll probably buy another one.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

[topmoo]

Living Roam

I like the Windows Media Center the best. I have DirecTV with all the options they have, I have a Tivo, the HD Receiver, the DirecTV DVR and normal sat receivers and my faves are the one's running through the media center... I don't see how you can dispute the pros and cons when the only pro that matters is the NO MONTHLY FEE that Media Center has. We pay 10 a month for both the tivo & the hdirectv dvr. It's just not needed when you have the media center, it does the same thing with many more options and a much easier on screen menu to learn. I can't imagine our tv system without the media center, but i can deal without the others, in fact the one tivo is run through a media center just for the streaming video features that we can't get with tivo.

www.livingroam.com

I got my great setup from www.livingroam.com and i couldn't have a better setup, we can watch tv dvd's or music from any of the pc's and receivers in any room with a hookup, i couldn't be happier.

topmoo

[jmhmaine]

TIVO as software - TIVO running on Cisco Box

The real solution is for TIVO to license its software to Cisco and other companies that build the boxes for cable companies. Unfortunately TIVO doesn't want to think of its self as a software company.

Wall Street and other investors pressure them to be more than a software company. TIVO wants reoccurring revenue from things such as programming guide and ad placements. The problem is that cable companies already have a programming guide, that are superior to TIVO because they know what they are broadcasting -- so they don't need to pay TIVO for the service.

Having said all that, I have a Time Warner DVR, and would gladly pay $10 a month to have TIVO run on the Cisco box. This scenario you get the best of both worlds. You can record two HD programs, not have a separate box, and have a great UI.

[UnnDunn]

TiVo has agreed to build software for Comcast boxes...

TiVo has agreed to build software that will run in Comcast's Motorola DCT boxes. Hopefully we will see some of that software be deployed before the end of the year.