Comments on: The Acid2 challenge to Microsoft

Opera Software CTO Hakon Wium Lie throws down the gauntlet--but will Microsoft pick it up?

Sucking Microsoft in

It's about time. I look forward to the development of this idea---putting pressure on Microsoft to improve its browser is a great idea---one I'm sure forward looking designers will embrace.

Great idea!

CSS Rocks!

Just picked up Eric A. Meyer's 'Cascading Style Sheets - The
Definitive Guide'. I finally commited myself to ditching tables for
element positioning, and am already reaping the benefits. This
absolutely must become standardized... please MS, get on it. As
well, update your older browsers for OS' not capable of running
IE 7. You enjoy your ~90% browser market share through illegal
actions of the past, if it were up to me, I would demand that you
make these changes. Your inaction over the last four years has
been a huge retardant to our collective progress. You should be
embarrassed and ashamed. Oh, and OS X makes you look silly
and helpless.

Our voices...

Our voices regarding web standards is very big, but do you actually think that Microsoft will have the ears to listen. Full implementation of CSS 2 in IE7 would be somewhat make me smile at Microsoft. Then again, I had very rarely smiled at the things Microsoft said that they would do in the past but never did. Our voices will be loud but does Microsoft have the ears to listen?

[Bill Dautrive]

Outstanding idea

There is one small problem though. Microsofts definition of interoperability is one MS product being able to communicate with another MS product.

Rare is the situation where MS thinks outside its own little box it trapped itself in. They need to join the rest of the computing world and stop being isolationists.

[John Kuzak]

another MS product

http://www.analogstereo.com/mercedes_cl_class_owners_manual.htm

[naylor83]

Great initiative!

Thanks Hakon for doing us this favour. Now it's our turn to help you in return, by nattering (no end) over at the IE blog. ;-) I've already done my part (for today).

[tennapel]

Maybe Opera need to look at its own core first

"Who is without sin may throw the first stone".

While I would like to see a fully compliant IE7 and while I fear the result of what Microsoft will deliver, I think Opera needs to take a hard look at itself.

While Mozilla and Safari and even IE6 often render specific CSS the same, Opera is often the odd one out. Release after release, the same bugs persist in Opera. Gaps do appear between

's that should be seamless and there isn't a single way to avoid it in Opera, no matter how much you try to isolate the problem.

Or you can isolate the problem and think of a workaround, but that will effectively break Mozilla or Safari rendering.

For IE we've luckily got CSS filters (thanks to Tantek), but for Opera/Mozilla/Safari we haven't got a way to single out browser-specific bugs.

Of course we should not have those, we should have browsers that render the ssame CSS statements the same way, in a predicatble manner.

Please provide a URL that shows this "bug"

Please provide a webpage that shows this "bug". It might very well just incorrect use of CSS, but a URL might or might not add some light to this.

What kind of problems?

Every browser has its bugs, and so has Opera, but generally its rendering engine is excellent.

Could you be more specific about your problems with Opera? And report it to Opera's bugtracking system so it may be fixed?

[katamari]

Couldn't agree more.

Absolutely. I don't understand why the Opera CEO has this huge vendetta against Microsoft -- it seems quite unwarranted, even more so with the "bork" Opera engine thing... totally bizarre, and COMPLETELY worthless.

[inachu]

I sure do miss playing Java Quake under IE

Don't you even start with my achy breaky heart!

What about full png support?

Will the full png support also be in the acid2 test?

I surely hope so.

By not upgrading IE to better CSS and png support, Microsoft is hindering us developers to make the internet to what it is enabled to do already.

And I am sick of it :)

png

I second that :)

png

I also second that

[HåkonWiumLie]

Opera and standards

We share the same goals: having interoperable
implementations of standards. Acid2 will not shield any browser, including Opera.

CSS2 for IE7 - come on MS, we're praying!

This is a positive campaign that will benefit everyone who works with or uses the internet if it is successful. It will allow designers to focus on designing rather than continuing to write code for specific browsers, which should have ceased to be necessary years ago. We should applaud Hakon Lie for his positive stance - if Microsoft take this to heart, it will regain the respect that it has lost amongst web developers.

[papastanley]

Opera 8b1 for OSX fails the Acid2 test

Just tested it with Safari (not RSS/Tiger version) and the Opera 8
b1 (ok it's still preview release) Opera 8 on OS X doesn't pass the
acid test either... note quite as wacky as the Safari render, but
still wack.

Great idea, but shouldn't Opera's browser work with it already?

.:S:.

Shame on you!!! Opera 8.01 fails the test!!!

After reading the article I was really convinced that you try to make the world better. After taking the test with Opera 8.01 on Win XP SP2 I have to assume, that you don't follow your own advice. Your software could not pass the exam you developed. Therefore I can treat your article just as a poor anti-MS commercial. That's a pitty.

[cdesimoni]

I hope they stop using ActiveX

Microsoft said since July 16, 1996 that "ActiveX is currently
supporte on the Windows Operating system. Microsoft is
working with Metrowerks to support ActiveX on the Macintosh
platform, and is also working with Bristol and Mainsoft to
support it on UNIX platforms. Developers who write ActiveX
controls and other ActiveX objects will be able to reach the
widest possible user audience with this cross platform solution."
Microsoft still has not done this and Active X is not compatible
with the Mac. I wish in there new IE7 (even though it will be for
the PC, I wish and hope they do away with ActiveX. It is more of
a security risk anyways. Take a look at www.vipmayflower.com .