Comments on: TorrentSpy ruling a 'weapon of mass discovery'

You may have to surrender what's in your RAM if sued. Legal experts say decision may cost businesses big bucks and threaten Web privacy.

[RJBlackKS]

hmm

what if logging is turned off by default? I know it's best practice to set up auditing on some functions in a network, but you have to set it up.

how can you "turn a blind eye" if your eye is originally blind so to speak? definately not tacit approval.

[inetdog]

Even if logging is turned off, they are "storing" it.

As noted in my earlier comment, the judge has said that since the information was "stored" in RAM for some measurable length of time, he is not asking them to store (i.e. log) anything that they are not logging already. But they can't "destroy" this RAM storage without destroying evidence, so they have to save the specific data his order asks for somewhere else to avoid destroying evidence.

It just happens that the easiest way for them to do this is to turn logging back on. But even if no logging function existed, they would have to build one to satisfy the order.

The judge is using a subtle (and perhaps in the eventual Appeal Court's judgement falacious) rationalization to force TorrentSpy to keep logs. That's all he is doing. But the precedent it sets for forcing any service provider to install specific logging of any sort of information whenever requested by a court order is a nuclear threat to privacy.

The most practical way to comply with this order is to turn logging on, then redact parts of the log and send it to the court.

[joecaz]

MPAA

We can bring them to their knees, quit going to the boxoffice! Most aren't worth seeing anyway.

[Timodeous]

What's next, my DVD collection?

Where do we draw the line?

I collect a huge number of DVD's that I buy regularly through Video Rental houses, pawn shops, eBay and the like. None of those profits goes to the MPAA either.

I suppose that the addage that "the rich get rich and the poor stay poor as the 1% rules America" seems to be strongly enforced here. I do suppose that people will watch a movie they download instead of renting it (MPAA doesn't get money from each rental either; video stores 'honorably' buy from vendors that sell movies for rental at high prices... yet I see the same Walmart videos in these stores as well)... but do we arrest and convict the person who watches a movie at the Drive-In from the other side of the fence? Granted millions of people don't do this...

I suppose the market for IP spoofer software will be going up...

[Professor Cornbread]

Proxy

TorrentSpy isn't a tracker, it is just a place to download the .torrent files, so wouldn't it work to just log in via proxy, download the torrent, and resume business as usual w/o the record of your IP being the one that downloaded the file?

[Panda9148]

Anonymizers

It is considered poor etiquette to hog the bandwidth of an anonymous proxy server through the massive uploading/downloading of information, which includes .torrent files, but if you are tech-savvy enough to rig your outbound and inbound ports and PROPERLY* set up your proxy program and connect to a trusted proxy server, you can become virtually un-traceable.

*Don't be tricked into thinking that just because you're using a anonymous proxy that your activity cannot be tracked. Check your P's and Q's and do it right if you're going to do it at all.

[erikjohnp]

Post-it analogy is bad & judge's order

For those who think this is a terrible ruling, you may want to find a different analogy than the "Post-it" analogy for RAM (it isn't clear whether it was the author's analogy or Dean McCarron's). A handwritten post-it note directly related to a factual issue in a case that is ongoing is almost certainly discoverable -- and no one who is in the midst of litigation, who rights factual information related to the case down--on a post-it note or anywhere else--should be throwing it away. If you are, you are risking sanctions.

Please read the judge's opinion (especially footnote 31) before you scream too loudly -- while it has flaws, the judge was sensitive to some of the issues described here, and the facts of this case are very unique.

[ddesy]

According to ruling they aren't storing it....

If you read the ruling, it ends up saying that a third party, Panther, has the data in RAM on it's servers. It then says, however, that TorrentSpy has control of that RAM. That doesn't even make sense!

[Flinxi]

Someone shoud....

File a lawsuit against the MPAA...

People have a legal right to make personal backup copies of any cd/dvd/tape, etc. that they have purchased... but, by making such dvd's (in the case of the MPAA) copy-protected, you are keeping me from my right to make my own backup copy. Now, you remove your copy-protection, or you provide me with a program that will totally remove such copy protection to allow me to make a FULL, HIGH QUALITY backup of MY dvd which I have legally purchased!

[Flinxi]

What this ruling does...

... is totally remove any concept of "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!"

Now... just because you THINK someone may be doing something illegal, you can now go in and do a search looking for the evidence with no grounds for probably cause.

It also takes away any 5th ammendment right, and forces others (in the particular case - TorrentSpy) to become informants.

Granted, these 2 statements are slight exaggerations, but because of this ruling, they are conceivable, and this ruling sets the precedent for them.

[erixgirl86]

I Just Dont Know Anymore

Seems to me like the judge was just trying to think of a solution to the whole deal, but that's like me saying I want to end world hatred by giving out puppies and candy.. You have to break it down and then come up with a solution, not just splurt out something that can't and probably won't be done due to finacial matters as well as rights to the american people. Another thing that I kind of see happening is officials abusing their power to just go in someones life and tear it apart just because of a "hunch" it needs to stop, we put them in their office and we can damn well vote them out.

[Cadae]

IP collection requirement not achievable

The Judge's footnote 33 requires IP addresses that are the same to be hashed and stored with the same identifier. This is pointless, as many users are on internet connections that regularly change IP addresses. This means that the same hashed IP address appearing in a log neither proves nor disproves that the same user was using the service at different times.

[adventiar]

Right To Privacy

I'll keep this short and simple. I am gauranteed by the constitution and its amendments the right to privacy and the right to be inisent until proven guilty. So if I am by right inocent of any crimes then what I do is NO ONE ELSES BUSINESS REGARDLESS HOW MUCH MONEY THEY MAY LOOSE FOR ANY REASON IN A YEARS TIME!!

[tetsuyo]

Election Priorities

Our priorities in this country are all out of wack.
Just the idea of the courts allowing the peering into innocent peoples lives at the whim of a corporate representative is wrong. The people need to gain back their power over corporate America. This election we need to support Presidential candidate, Sen. Mike Gravel who advocates a national voter initiative that gives the power back to the people to make laws on a national level. Just like states have ballot initiatives we need to be able to have national ballot initiatives as a check on the lawmakers in Washington who so easily sell out the publics interest to the corporations.
Sen. Mike Gravel has other great ideas and speaks the truth to power.

This election we have a chance to change our country for the better. Too many Americans are selling out their rights by buying into corporate commercialism and then crying like a baby when it turns out that those same corporations are stabbing them in the back and peering into their private lives. Stop supporting the candidate with the most money in their war chest for a change. Those big campaign donations come from corporations and they have to be paid back. Stop supporting the candidate that the media tells you has the best chance of winning.

Support the candidate with the great ideas and peoples interest in mind. Support the candidate that goes the extra mile to protect our Constitution and you will be doing a great service to your country.

[Psycloned]

My RAMS

Let me show you them.

[jdbwar07]

Do judges have too much power?

I'm not a lawyer, but it's my understanding whenever there's some question about how the laws should be applied, the particular judge in the case will rule, and this will set a permanent "precedent" that all other cases must follow. This seems to be a big problem, not just because this power resides in one person who might be corrupt or biased, but also because he/she is unlikely to have the relevant understanding if there's a technical matter (such as this). Here some judge doesn't even know what RAM is, yet now because of his opinion, sorry, "ruling" any remaining privacy of electronic information we have is severely diminished. I would say the proper place for this would be Congress, but obviously they would just do whatever the RIAA lobbyists told them. Sad when our government is so corrupt it's pathologically incapable of serving the public anymore.