If I grab my camera, jump in my car, and drive away, have I committed larceny? And if I bring a couple of my better lenses, sending the total value well over a thousand dollars, is it grand larceny?
I wouldn't think so, but you better not try it in Florida!
On one hand, Macintosh is often better suited for creative individuals who enjoy working with photography and graphics. That would certainly apply here.
On the other hand, the vast majority of degenerate sex offenders and child pornographers prefer to use Windows for their criminal activities.
On a side note, the article does state that "transferring the images from a digital camera to a PC created innumerable problems: "'The two computers (can) be hacked.'" Usage of the words "hack", "problems", and "PC" would generally imply that Amber and Jeremy were using some version of Windows. But if this is true, what version? Was it Vista?!?
The extremely high cost of Vista might explain why Amber and Jeremy felt the need to sell their child porn in the first place. Then their actions were clearly justified.
I can't understand how CNet could ignore these important facts. Typical shoddy reporting from CNet.
Law is driven by political expediency and religiously over zealous judges and prosecutors, who propose their moral values should dictate what is good or not good for society.
The legal system has perpetrated itself and being our watchers and conscience.
Our legal system and the judges would split a baby in half rather than use the sense of Solomon.
As stated in another post earlier, a gun might be used to kill someone, by judicial logic as proposed in this article everyone in the NRA should be in jail. And lets not forget that black robes are technically dresses, think about it.
If the underlying act is not a crime, then documenting it should not be a crime either. Stupid, yes. A crime, no.
I wonder if these moronic judges will make these kids register as sex offenders too. Bad reasoning. Bad logic. Totally ignores the public policy objectives underlying the law they used to prosecute these kids.
"We have to protect them from their lack of judgement." By slapping them with a criminal charge that will ruin their lives forever? That's protection? These people need to stay out of other peoples lives. 50 years ago it wouldn't be too uncommon for a 16 and 17 yr old to be married. This is using a criminal statue to morally police personal behavior.
They are in fact ruining the lives of these children they are trying to protect. They will be put on sex-offender lists. Have great restrictions on where they can live and work. Those of you who are Montel fans have seen a case like this already where the teen girl was coaxed to send the nude pics to and older man. He got off scot free and she was charged with promoting sexual performance of a child. She can't go to school, Her parents had to move because their house was too close to a school. The girl was 13 at the time. What kind of Judges do we have in this country. I can't wait for them to meet their make and explain. Maybe they were just pissed they didn't get the pictures.
If a teenager intends to keep something like this private, then someone attempts to obtain it, this is a privacy violation, not the fault of the admittedly foolish teen who created and/or transmitted it. It is ridiculous to accuse them, both minors, of distributing or possessing child pornography when they intend to keep it between themselves. If I have something that I want kept private that authorities would frown on, say, a pointless rant on how stupid the president is, and I would like him dead, but contains no semblance of a viable plan to do him in at all, simply rants, and someone cracks my computer and gets it, am I plotting to kill the president? No, even if I have not gone to the trouble of triple-firewalling my computer and placing it behind a NAT router, it is still my property and anyone who would like to remain on the good end of the law would do best not to access it without my permission. The same concept holds true of my email accounts other than the information being subject to deletion at the whim of the email provider. There is one proper course of action here: The state must drop the charges against these foolish teens, let them recover from their humiliation and hopefully learn from their mistake.
Triple firewalls do n0ot protect you for any info you put over the Net. The info is already our there & IS traceable. And our dear President has signed an executive order demanding all IP addresses & all personal info given to net content providers, & to flag any that contain certain words & phrases to the appropriate Federal agencies.
That is the law as it currently stands. Google is the only such company to refuse & have gone to court to overturn that order. they are winning so far, but it will be up to the Supreme Court before it is over.
You are whistling in the dark if you believe you have any privacy rights over what you send over the web
I can remember in the 90's when my son went to high school and I tried to get a report card copy of my sons grades from school, I was told I had to get my sons permission because he was older than 15, and considered an adult and as such the school was unalble to give me a copy. It is my belief that in order to prosecute these two with the idea in mind that they were creating/sending/whatever child porongraphy over the net one must first come to a good resolution as to what is a minor and at what age, and what is an adult and at what age. It seems ludecrous that the state can have 150 definitions of what is a minor and what is an adult, and then apply the rules as they see fit. I always think what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It seems that Laws are created for the lawyers, rather than to protect the weak and the innocent.
Y'all have no friggin idea the extent your traffic is monitored and WILL be used against you.
EVERY Byte is monitored and if you fall into the filters, your email messages, web surfing, VOIP calls and anything else deemed interesting ot the government WILL be monitored and used against you.
Welcome to Big Brother -- he's already HERE and WATCHING.
I've been reading news on CNET, CNN and some other major websites for the last two years, and this is the first time I post a comment. Every day my disbelief grows larger and larger. Years I thought of America as the place to be, but after all I've read these last months, my opinion has completely changed.
People (and companies) are prosecuted for the most stupid things, sometimes for millions of dollars, victims are penalized, ... Movies where dozens of people get killed are no problem but if a breast is shown then the whole country goes nuts... Priorities are completely ****** up at every level of your society.
Most Americans seem to have lost their common sense (often because of religion?). It might still be a great country to visit as a tourist, but it's mighty dangerous. Please take no offence.
The police and (if I understand correctly) the parents should be prosecuted. From the accounts it seems that the photos were never meant to be seen by anyone other than the two teenagers involved.
These laws were put in place to protect Minors, but what has been done? They have plastered this knowledge across headlines around the world now.
These police and parents have done more damage to these children than the children themselves ever could have gotten into on their own. They turned a completely private issue into a public issue and it never should have occurred. This is completely horrible.
The parents should never have made this public and the police never should have pursued this. Any "wrongs" that were committed were made a hundred times worse by the actions taken by the supposed "Adults" in this case.
These "Adults" have placed a stigmatism on these children that they may never lose. These "Adults" should be prosecuted.
I disagree with only one thing: The implication that the children did ANYTHING wrong. Kids will be kids, it sounds entirely harmless. Even if they had sold the photos, who is harmed by it? Them?
The prosecutors should be immediately disbarred. If anyone in Florida is reading this, they sould raise hell. In fact, they shouldn't just be disbarred: They should be put in prison. Their actions directly violated the rights, bodies, and liberties of another person. They should absolutely be put in prison.
The parents - well, not much can be said about them. They will probably never speak with the children again, their relationship will become estranged and they will lose their children. It serves them right.
The children, in this crucial juncture of their lives, will be spending time they should be spending studying, applying for college, and becoming useful members of society dealing with courts and becoming angstful about this.
The children have undoubtedly been harmed by this "child pornography| - but not by the photos, but by the egregious and malicious reactions of the "adults" around them!
But then, where is the difference between this and arresting a drug user, punishing the victim? Both cases are equally immoral and wrong. It is a crime to violate anothers' rights, it doesn't matter if you're wearing a suit and tie or skating clothes.
I hope these prosecutors burn in hell, after they are disbarred and imprisoned.
There are so many things about this case and story that just make me think that everyone involved will look back ten years from now and realize people had lost their minds.
1) Parents find the photos of their 16 or 17 year old and turn them into the police. To protect them?
2)My understanding is that the average age of first time consensual sex is between 16 and 17 years old, but many are starting much earlier.(In otherwords, most kids,including us, when we were young,have or will have sex as teenagers. Its okay to have sex but not okay to take a photo of it?Hmmmm?)
3)Is it illegal to have sex with a minor if you are a minor? Never has been that I ever heard of.
4)The child pronography laws are put in place to keep unscruplous, twisted, devaint pedophiles from exploiting children sexually for profit. A 16 and 17 year old having sex and taking photos with their camera phone to keep privately themselves somehow does not seem to fall into the child pornography category.
5) As a matter of fact, if the parents had not turned them in to the police, it is most likely no one besides the two teenagers would ever have seen the pictures.
6) This crap about the photos being emailed by her to him, and what a risk they were taking by sending the photos over the Internet (and by doing so they somehow had become pornographers)is almost too ignorant to comment on. I send alot of stuff by email, I doubt anything has ever been stolen, however I'm sure there were evil doers just waiting for these two to take some nudie pics and email them, so they could hack their connection and steal the photos.
7)If our goal is to teach our children, and protect them, how in the hell does this case protect or help anybody or any cause-wherin they are thrown into jail (two seemingly naive but good kids) , into the public eye in a sex and pornography debacle, and into a living hell for years to come?
I really will ponder the ignorance of this debacle for a long time to come and I'm surprised I feel this way (because I have a daughter),but... this reeks of a tremendous invasion of privacy particulalry because without the invasion of privacy there was no wrongdoing. No one had broken a law, since the two consenting teenagers were the only ones to see their photos. Once their privacy was violated, then others saw the photos and now we have a case against them? What??
How come this didn't get thrown out of court? I guess too many of the judicial side of this wanted to see the pictures too, and they couldn't do that without going to trial...
When I read this story, I couldn't believe it, but then I noticed it happened in Florida.
That 2 teens would react intimately with each other at a time when their hormones are screaming is not news. That judges would side with a prosecutor and judge these kids as criminals for behaving as kids speaks volumes about the qualifications of judges and prosecutors in Florida; but then what else can one expect from a state that's incapable of even conducting a vote?
You know, I have a stack of used cardboard boxes here that I was planning on knocking flat for recycling. But maybe I should take them out back and burn them. I don't really believe a little more CO2 will bring on global warming, but I suppose it's possible. And one of the infrequently-mentioned benefits of global warming is that we won't have to put up with Florida any more.
Consenting minors performing sexual acts is legal under Florida law, but taking pix of it for personal use is illegal? According to the law it is. Giving them to your boyfriend & his possession of them is. In Florida, the age of consent is 16, not 18. Where is the consistency? Inconsistency between related laws would seem to be the crime.
If these pictures are released, possible harm may come to their careers or personal lives---Let me get this straight. If others see these pictures, harm may occur to the minors involved. That is true. Therefore, everyone involved in the prosecution of this case is guilty of distribution of child pornography, since literally hundreds of people in the Police Dept, Prosecutors offices, & court employees have had access to the pix. This includes those who have no direct involvement in the case. Prosecution has definitely caused psychological & career harm to these teens, which constitutes the crimes of felony child abuse & distribution of child porn. These teen's intentions are no worse than the Court's. The wrong people are being prosecuted here.
There was a case in Arizona where a 12 year old faced a felony charge of possession of child porn on his computer. He claimed he had no knowledge that it was there. Two polygraph tests supported his story. Yet he was arrested & charged. If convicted, he would have been put on the sexual predator's list for the rest of his life. He pleaded out, but thankfully the judge who heard the case refused the plea & dismissed the case.
We all need to get a grip & find our lost common sense in this country. We have gone way too far off the deep end.
We have gone way overboard when the best we can do is to prosecute two childern for acts that they did not have the age level yet to understand were wrong. They are the victims. The police the prosecuter and the courts in this case should wake up and admit they made a misstake in the prosection of the victims. I am a retired police officer of over 25 years in Law Enforcement and I for one can tell you that we have gone way to far in this whole sex offender thing. Recent studies by the federal Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics found that 93 percent of children who were victims of sexual assault were victimized by family members or people they knew. Another federal study found that sex offenders had lower recidivism rates than other criminals, and that three years after their release from prison, only 3.3 percent had been arrested for another sex crime against a child. When are we as a socity going to wake up and realize that those elected to office are using this subject to get votes. They do not have our childerns saftey at hart. If they did they would make sure that only those sex offenders who were the most danger to our kids and other people would be placed on the Sex Offender Registry. In some states including Florida some many people are listed it is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Come on Public wake up and tell your elected officals you are on to them and if they keep going in the direction they are now going we will all have our rights taken away from us.
please explain to me what rights exactly we have left? this from an arizona mother of five with none of her children with her because she supported her (innocent) boyfriend who is in jail now for 7months awaiting trial on a crime that he will surely be sentanced to for life, unless he can come up 50,000 for an attorney who will actually provide him with a defense. i despise our government, am embarrased to be called an american.
I just seems relevant to point out that in Florida, like most states, oral, anal, and just about any other kind of "impure" sex is illegal. So I guess that means we should all be locked up?
People just need to get over themselves. If people think sexuality is a moral or religious issue, then they need to understand the concept of separation of church and state, and dont apply their warped morals to everyone else. MORALS ARE PERSONAL. IF I'M NOT HARMING ANYONE, LEAVE ME THE FCK ALONE.
When exactly did they reach the conclusion that having sex, taking photos of yourself having sex or having those photos shown to anyone was "bad" in any conceivable way? Show me the scientific evidence. I say sex is no different than picking your nose or someone else's nose. It's not traumatic, it's not violence, it's not demeaning. It's not immoral. The psychological difficulties in relationships are part of being human and hurt just as bad at 14 as 44 if you don't have any way to reason it out and just have lifetime movies to explain your own emotions.
The majority judge is just as pathetic and moronic as you Krosavcheg. "Appellant was simply too young to make an intelligent decision about engaging in sexual conduct and memorializing it. Mere production of these videos or pictures may also result in psychological trauma to the teenagers involved." -- There was nothing inherently unintelligent about the decision to take pictures of themselves, it's their business not yours, and not the courts to decide if it's smart or not. "May result in psychological trauma", or may result in pleasure as they (like many other people) enjoy looking at pictures of each other naked. Who f-ing cares. The judge isn't a psychologist, and it's obvious this is a loophole in the law, and not what the law was meant to do. It's not protecting anyone to rule in this way. Anyone who's researched the horrible problem that is child pornography knows that it's almost never a child selling their own pictures. Also, the judge's statement that computers can be hacked is so pathetic it's depressing. ANY ******* computer can be hacked, does that mean we shouldn't store anything important or valuable on them? NO.
Sure, taking pictures of themselves partaking in sexual activities is wrong, but more or less, they weren't going to publicize the images. They're children. They shouldn't have to rot in prison. They made a mistake. I'm sure you've made plenty. And as far as god's concerned, he'll smite you for lack of compassion and understanding.
excuse me for asking, but did you actually attend school? Where people get an education, and learn morals? Im sure that God won't smite them on the matter. If anybody, it will probably be you that is smitten due to your hatred. I'm sorry, but i find this comment childish and imprudent. Although, it is likely that you will not know what those words mean, as we have established that you did not recieve basic education.
I call troll. No one is really that much of a gibbering idiot. Also, even if there ARE people that intellectually/educationally disadvantaged, the tone of "krosavcheg's" comment is very troll-like. Real fascist sect Christians would rant more, and probably include something to make themselves feel special.
It's stupid. If they register as sex offenders, they'll have to deal with this crap for the rest of their lives. And for what, taking a few pictures of themselves? Who did they harm?
yeah, i thought i'd just be blaitent with it. I mean seriously, what teenage boy now-a-days doesn't watch/look at/ and/or get porn some how?
I think all of us minors should start making porn sites of ourselves and have that stupid "YOU MUST BE 18 OR OLDER TO ENTER!" page as the first one you see, except it would be "YOU MUST NOT BE 18 OR OLDER TO ENTER!". Yep, a minors only website, anyone else and it's punishable by law.
But, on a more serious note: The judicial system shouldn't be ******' prosecuting us if we do this ****!! Supposedly, "protecting" the victim: ********!. This would cause me more psychological damage than even the most embarrassing school/social related thing that I could ever do!!! My life would be ruined, forever.
I can't wait til some of my generation are the higher-ups in this ****: making all the decisions. Then, we'll finaly be able to right the wrongs that have gone on for far to long.
Manage updates with the Download App
I wouldn't think so, but you better not try it in Florida!
Van
I can tell you're a cool cat, so this was clearly just a lapse in cool cattiness.
(Cattiness as in Cat-like, not as in malicious or anything.)
On one hand, Macintosh is often better suited for creative individuals who enjoy working with photography and graphics. That would certainly apply here.
On the other hand, the vast majority of degenerate sex offenders and child pornographers prefer to use Windows for their criminal activities.
On a side note, the article does state that "transferring the images from a digital camera to a PC created innumerable problems: "'The two computers (can) be hacked.'" Usage of the words "hack", "problems", and "PC" would generally imply that Amber and Jeremy were using some version of Windows. But if this is true, what version? Was it Vista?!?
The extremely high cost of Vista might explain why Amber and Jeremy felt the need to sell their child porn in the first place. Then their actions were clearly justified.
I can't understand how CNet could ignore these important facts. Typical shoddy reporting from CNet.
(Yes, all of the above is sarcasm.)
Down with Mac! Down with Linux! Down with Sandwiches!
(continuing the sarcasm train. Very apt observation my friend - about CNet comment threads, I mean.)
Law is driven by political expediency and religiously over zealous judges and prosecutors, who propose their moral values should dictate what is good or not good for society.
The legal system has perpetrated itself and being our watchers and conscience.
Our legal system and the judges would split a baby in half rather than use the sense of Solomon.
As stated in another post earlier, a gun might be used to kill someone, by judicial logic as proposed in this article everyone in the NRA should be in jail. And lets not forget that black robes are technically dresses, think about it.
I wonder if these moronic judges will make these kids register as sex offenders too. Bad reasoning. Bad logic. Totally ignores the public policy objectives underlying the law they used to prosecute these kids.
By slapping them with a criminal charge that will ruin their lives forever? That's protection? These people need to stay out of other peoples lives.
50 years ago it wouldn't be too uncommon for a 16 and 17 yr old to be married. This is using a criminal statue to morally police personal behavior.
That is the law as it currently stands. Google is the only such company to refuse & have gone to court to overturn that order. they are winning so far, but it will be up to the Supreme Court before it is over.
You are whistling in the dark if you believe you have any privacy rights over what you send over the web
It seems ludecrous that the state can have 150 definitions of what is a minor and what is an adult, and then apply the rules as they see fit. I always think what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It seems that Laws are created for the lawyers, rather than to protect the weak and the innocent.
EVERY Byte is monitored and if you fall into the filters, your email messages, web surfing, VOIP calls and anything else deemed interesting ot the government WILL be monitored and used against you.
Welcome to Big Brother -- he's already HERE and WATCHING.
People (and companies) are prosecuted for the most stupid things, sometimes for millions of dollars, victims are penalized, ... Movies where dozens of people get killed are no problem but if a breast is shown then the whole country goes nuts... Priorities are completely ****** up at every level of your society.
Most Americans seem to have lost their common sense (often because of religion?). It might still be a great country to visit as a tourist, but it's mighty dangerous. Please take no offence.
These laws were put in place to protect Minors, but what has been done? They have plastered this knowledge across headlines around the world now.
These police and parents have done more damage to these children than the children themselves ever could have gotten into on their own. They turned a completely private issue into a public issue and it never should have occurred. This is completely horrible.
The parents should never have made this public and the police never should have pursued this. Any "wrongs" that were committed were made a hundred times worse by the actions taken by the supposed "Adults" in this case.
These "Adults" have placed a stigmatism on these children that they may never lose. These "Adults" should be prosecuted.
The prosecutors should be immediately disbarred. If anyone in Florida is reading this, they sould raise hell. In fact, they shouldn't just be disbarred: They should be put in prison. Their actions directly violated the rights, bodies, and liberties of another person. They should absolutely be put in prison.
The parents - well, not much can be said about them. They will probably never speak with the children again, their relationship will become estranged and they will lose their children. It serves them right.
The children, in this crucial juncture of their lives, will be spending time they should be spending studying, applying for college, and becoming useful members of society dealing with courts and becoming angstful about this.
The children have undoubtedly been harmed by this "child pornography| - but not by the photos, but by the egregious and malicious reactions of the "adults" around them!
But then, where is the difference between this and arresting a drug user, punishing the victim? Both cases are equally immoral and wrong. It is a crime to violate anothers' rights, it doesn't matter if you're wearing a suit and tie or skating clothes.
I hope these prosecutors burn in hell, after they are disbarred and imprisoned.
1) Parents find the photos of their 16 or 17 year old and turn them into the police. To protect them?
2)My understanding is that the average age of first time consensual sex is between 16 and 17 years old, but many are starting much earlier.(In otherwords, most kids,including us, when we were young,have or will have sex as teenagers. Its okay to have sex but not okay to take a photo of it?Hmmmm?)
3)Is it illegal to have sex with a minor if you are a minor? Never has been that I ever heard of.
4)The child pronography laws are put in place to keep unscruplous, twisted, devaint pedophiles from exploiting children sexually for profit. A 16 and 17 year old having sex and taking photos with their camera phone to keep privately themselves somehow does not seem to fall into the child pornography category.
5) As a matter of fact, if the parents had not turned them in to the police, it is most likely no one besides the two teenagers would ever have seen the pictures.
6) This crap about the photos being emailed by her to him, and what a risk they were taking by sending the photos over the Internet (and by doing so they somehow had become pornographers)is almost too ignorant to comment on. I send alot of stuff by email, I doubt anything has ever been stolen, however I'm sure there were evil doers just waiting for these two to take some nudie pics and email them, so they could hack their connection and steal the photos.
7)If our goal is to teach our children, and protect them, how in the hell does this case protect or help anybody or any cause-wherin they are thrown into jail (two seemingly naive but good kids) , into the public eye in a sex and pornography debacle, and into a living hell for years to come?
I really will ponder the ignorance of this debacle for a long time to come and I'm surprised I feel this way (because I have a daughter),but... this reeks of a tremendous invasion of privacy particulalry because without the invasion of privacy there was no wrongdoing. No one had broken a law, since the two consenting teenagers were the only ones to see their photos. Once their privacy was violated, then others saw the photos and now we have a case against them? What??
How come this didn't get thrown out of court? I guess too many of the judicial side of this wanted to see the pictures too, and they couldn't do that without going to trial...
Ken
but then I noticed it happened in Florida.
That 2 teens would react intimately with each
other at a time when their hormones are
screaming is not news. That judges would side
with a prosecutor and judge these kids as
criminals for behaving as kids speaks volumes
about the qualifications of judges and
prosecutors in Florida; but then what else can
one expect from a state that's incapable of even
conducting a vote?
Mike K.
Van
If these pictures are released, possible harm may come to their careers or personal lives---Let me get this straight. If others see these pictures, harm may occur to the minors involved. That is true. Therefore, everyone involved in the prosecution of this case is guilty of distribution of child pornography, since literally hundreds of people in the Police Dept, Prosecutors offices, & court employees have had access to the pix. This includes those who have no direct involvement in the case. Prosecution has definitely caused psychological & career harm to these teens, which constitutes the crimes of felony child abuse & distribution of child porn. These teen's intentions are no worse than the Court's. The wrong people are being prosecuted here.
There was a case in Arizona where a 12 year old faced a felony charge of possession of child porn on his computer. He claimed he had no knowledge that it was there. Two polygraph tests supported his story. Yet he was arrested & charged. If convicted, he would have been put on the sexual predator's list for the rest of his life. He pleaded out, but thankfully the judge who heard the case refused the plea & dismissed the case.
We all need to get a grip & find our lost common sense in this country. We have gone way too far off the deep end.
When are we as a socity going to wake up and realize that those elected to office are using this subject to get votes. They do not have our childerns saftey at hart. If they did they would make sure that only those sex offenders who were the most danger to our kids and other people would be placed on the Sex Offender Registry. In some states including Florida some many people are listed it is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Come on Public wake up and tell your elected officals you are on to them and if they keep going in the direction they are now going we will all have our rights taken away from us.
states, oral, anal, and just about any other kind of "impure" sex
is illegal. So I guess that means we should all be locked up?
People just need to get over themselves. If people think
sexuality is a moral or religious issue, then they need to
understand the concept of separation of church and state, and
dont apply their warped morals to everyone else. MORALS ARE
PERSONAL. IF I'M NOT HARMING ANYONE, LEAVE ME THE FCK
ALONE.
AND GET SOME FCKING COMMON SENSE.
-Damn Proud Florida Citizen
They'll always be looked at as potential child molesters when looking for work.
They're children. They shouldn't have to rot in prison. They made a mistake. I'm sure you've made plenty.
And as far as god's concerned, he'll smite you for lack of compassion and understanding.
teenage boy now-a-days doesn't watch/look at/ and/or get
porn some how?
I think all of us minors should start making porn sites of
ourselves and have that stupid "YOU MUST BE 18 OR OLDER TO
ENTER!" page as the first one you see, except it would be "YOU
MUST NOT BE 18 OR OLDER TO ENTER!". Yep, a minors only
website, anyone else and it's punishable by law.
But, on a more serious note: The judicial system shouldn't be
******' prosecuting us if we do this ****!! Supposedly,
"protecting" the victim: ********!. This would cause me more psychological damage than even the most embarrassing
school/social related thing that I could ever do!!! My life would
be ruined, forever.
I can't wait til some of my generation are the higher-ups in this
****: making all the decisions. Then, we'll finaly be able to right
the wrongs that have gone on for far to long.
oh, only one. :]