Comments on: Police blotter: Laptop border searches OK'd

In this week's installment, 9th Circuit says border police may search laptops without warrants or suspicion of wrongdoing.

[baisa]

An outrageous and dangerous precedent

The notion that Americans have no right to privacy and no right to be free from search and seizure simply because they are crossing the border is OUTRAGEOUS. How can this repellant and extremely dangerous precedent be justified? The Constitution guarantees all Americans the right to be free from unwarranted searches and seizures. This principle should apply EVERYWHERE -- it is a fundamental individual right. As soon as it is accepted that being free from search and seizure is not a right in one context (entering the country) it will only be a matter of very short time before it starts spreading, virally, to all manner of other contexts, for all kinds of alleged important reasons.

[mr3vil]

ditto

You're exactly right. Now that the government has claimed it's ok to unlawfully search a person at the border. Next thing you know they'll say it's ok to go into your home and search it because the DHS felt like it.

Granted, I understand warrantless searching of non-citizens....but OUR OWN? Since when did the Constitution suddenly not apply to a citizen of the United States? The fact of the matter is, despite the fact that the gentleman in this case did have contraband on him. That should NOT negate the fact that his 4th amendment rights were egregiously violated.

I'll tell you, it's a terrible shame that these days being a facist pig is less of a threat to one's political aspirations than not being concered about "national security". Well, good thing we can still burn flags I guess.

[cerdoE]

This is not a precedent at all

When I went into Canada 15 years ago, three times, when I returned, I was subject to being searched by US Customs all three times. I couldn't "opt out"; if they wanted to search it was clear they had the right.

When I went to Mexico 6 years ago, when I returned, I was subject to search by US Customs when I returned. I couldn't "opt out"; if they wanted to search it was clear they had the right.

Reportedly, in this case, Canadadian authorities searched his laptop, because he had a criminal record, found the illegal materials, then called US Customs. The US Customs search was _not_ unwarranted!

Even if you want to protest the fact that "random" searches were considered acceptable by the judges - ever hear of police roadblocks? This isn't a new practice!

Where is the precedent here?

[chuck_whealton]

Re: An outrageous and dangerous precedent

Why is this so dangerous?

If a police officer pulls you over they can search you, if you go to
the airport you get searched. What's the difference?

You go to a border, and you get searched.

Heck, when I cross from Arizona to California and back, I get
searched (if the agents choose) for various fruits and/or
vegetables.

What's so different about this from any other searches? Or
perhaps you feel we shouldn't be searched anywhere? That
would at least be consistent.

What it comes down to is it's no different from any other type of
search that law enforcement is currently allowed to perform.

I'll say what I've said before; it's only a major ordeal if somebody
is breaking the law.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

We The Sheeple....

I love how everyone gets so outraged after it's too late. I was called "Chicken Little" when I tried to warn people 10-15 years ago. Enjoy your loss of rights, the sheeple mandated it!

[lamer111]

Real Truth here people...CNUT bites

Tell the WHOLE truth CNET!

Excerpt from Fark.

THERE IS A HELL OF LOT MORE TO THIS STORY. I can't believe Cnet left the most crucial part of the story out, namely that Canada Customs examined his computer before refusing him entry into the Canada then alerted U.S. authorities on his return trip to the United States. When Canada Customs examined his computer they discovered several known child pornography web sites in his browser history and passed that information to American law enforcement. THAT is what prompted the authorities to check his computer. It wasn't just some agent acting on a whim.

[declan00]

The "real truth"

If you read the opinion more carefully, the 9th Circuit's decision did not turn on whether or not the Canadians tipped off the Feds. Put another way, it didn't matter:
"In sum, we hold first that the ICE's forensic analysis of Romm's laptop was permissible without probable cause or a warrant under the border search doctrine."

Also I'm not sure that namecalling is really all that useful or productive here.

[Sir Geek]

If that were true (they received an alert from Canadian officials)

Why the hell wouldn't they have gotten a warrent (they had good cause - the tip from Canadian Officials). This way they would never have had worry that the evidence could be tossed from court.

[battlefella]

CNET covered the decision points

Read the decision before you blast CNET - the judges did not give much importance to the fact that Canadian authorities may have discovered and tipped the US on this matter. The decision made it clear that the it did not depend (or even consider) this fact. That makes CNET's coverage more accurate than if it had filled the story with (legally) irrelavent information.

[declan00]

doesn't matter

It's not relevant in terms of the law.

[George Moss]

Diary/notebook border search

Wednesday, May 3, 2006 - El Progresso, Mexico/TX border
crossing in vehicle - self and another US citizen - Extensive search
of vehicle - Agent paged through my friend's diary/notebook and
envelopes containing mail he had received - I asked "are you
authorized to search personal notes?" - (bruque) "Yes." - 1-1/2
hour delay - nothing found.

[andocrates]

Border crossings are exceptions

I'm big on civil liberties, the one place I understand and never question is crossing the border. I had a difficult time getting out of Japan recently, but the difference is the Japanese can be strong and demanding without being rude. American Law Enforcement creates hostility with their poor people skills. As we watch our civilization collapse around us, I say it's worth losing a few lives to protect our way of life - or to put it another way if we lose a planeload of Americans but retain the integrity of our form of government we cannot lose. I'm not sure we want to admit it, but null has played George Bush like a Cheap fiddle all along. All the stress of the last few years has been caused by a bunch of frighted county club politicians get paid to scare everyone then reassure them that they are on the job keeping them null.

Just 15 years ago we were all lamenting at how judges loved criminals and were letting them off with love taps. Now we have the highest incarceration rate in the world, higher then the USSR at it's zenith, and judges pass out 30 year sentences over the stupidest infractions - something is wrong with our system

Can they copy data from your drive?

Can they copy data from your drive, or image your hardrive, without your consent?

(I probably wouldn't mind if they took a quick manual look at my laptop while I observed, but I would really dislike having my personal data copied for later scrutiny or distribution. That seems like theft to me.)

[chris_d]

welcome to police state USA!

I don't care about precedent, it's just plain wrong for customs to be able to search your entire laptop just because they want to, which the courts said is ok.

It's getting bad. Read this story:
http://www.nbc10.com/news/9574663/detail.html

[baisa]

Exactly why precedents are so dangerous

The previous poster pointed out situations where unwarranted searches and siezures have already been accepted.

That this kind of mentality is probably quite prevalent, is PRECISELY why bad precedents are so dangerous!

It is ok for airlines to request reasonable examinations of luggage and one's person prior to boarding an airplane, for safety and security reasons. One can refuse by not flying, and this is a private arrangement. But the border is another matter altogether. What is interesting, is that some of the main reasons for searching people at borders are the prohibition against drugs, which itself is a violation of individual rights. All these violations of rights just necessitate and justify further violations of rights.

[rodolfo76]

What if your child was in those photos?

Were my child the one contained in those photos I would certainly feel glad they nabbed this fellow. We can't expect law enforcement to do their job if we take away their tools. They have a difficult enough job!

[qwerty75]

Do you have a point?

Warrantly searches are unconstitutional, period. IT doesn't matter if the person being searched is, in fact, guilty or innocent.

[Had_to_be_said]

Nice attempt at EMOTIONAL-BLACKMAIL...

But... we ARE NOT talking about an appropriate-approach to catching the incredibly small percentage of people who are actually guilty, of any serious-offense...

Whether, we are personally involved, or not...

What this IS about, is allowing the Government to treat EVERY AMERICAN like a CONVICTED CRIMINAL, on the off-chance that, maybe, SOME ACTUAL CRIMINALS might be stupid enough to get caught. And, all WE, as Americans, have to do is give up our MOST BASIC RIGHTS, and accept living in a TOTALITARIAN POLICE-STATE, "...for our own good".

I think most Americans, at this point, are SICK of the ridiculous, and tired, statement that "Law-Enforcement" constantly needs, ever more, powerful "tools", ...in other words, THEY MUST BE ALLOWED TO SPY ON EVERYBODY (virtually without restraint) in order for (we) Americans "...to live in safety".

Frankly, that is the same, infuriatingly-sad, argument that EVERY DICTATOR, in history, has used to justify their criminal-oppressions of every basic human-right.

In short, when "probable cause", "due process", and "Constitutional Rights" are no longer viable necessities, ...then America itself is DEAD, and "..We The People", no longer have a "...legitimate-government".

But, maybe, that is EXACTLY what some here, are promoting...

[sotelojohn]

Give back my freedom

I care for and monitor my own children. I do not want the government or your "help" protecting my family.
It is brainless fear mongering statements like this that will cost us our few remaining civil liberties. My God, I can't believe what's happened to this country in the last 30 years.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
I will move out of this evolving police state soon. "Give be liberty or give me death."

[andocrates]

Are you for real?

The police have so much power they are drunk from it. Wow, talk about living in a bubble. And as was already noted this child was likely driven to the photo shoot by her mom, they call everything C pornography even when there is no sex or even nudity involved. Jon Benet Ramsey's photo shoot is legally child pornography even though she was fully dressed. 20 years in prison for that stuff? This is what is so wrong and why some of us are upset.

[angeles75]

Border search

If it means a safer America. I am all for it.

[qwerty75]

sheesh

Really? Are you that scared and shortsighted? It does not make us safer, but it makes us less free.

Giving up your rights that millions have fought for just so you can 'feel safe' is the very definition of cowardice.

[walwebster]

Rights?

I don't recall anybody fighting (much less dying) for the "right" to cross borders without thorough scrutiny since Genghis Khan's last great barnstorming tour ...

[qwerty75]

Read the bill of rights someday soon.

Pay extra close attention to the 4th amendment, but others apply in part as well.

[AlanZusman]

I would rather drop my Pants!

WOW!!! Our Government is Out of control, Totally unacceptable - I will drop my pants and let you violate me physically before I will let you take my laptop or my digital data > that is my brain, my sanity . . . which is the only thing more important than my freedom & privacy!

[TuxedoBond]

WTF?!

You're a sick man.

[Amebix83]

After looking at this guy's rap sheet it's no wonder, http://criminalsearches.com/details.aspx?id=886298 . He wasn't allowed into Canada because he's a child rapist and they find known child porn addresses in his browser history. The guy is a scumbag and I don't have a problem with felonious pedo-sex offenders being subject to extra searches. The scary part is that the Gov't doesn't need any reasonable suspicion to take all of our digital info. The argument has been made that ICE agents can search a photo album, address book, or envelopes full of mail so why shouldn't they be able to search their digital counterparts? If they were only glancing through a hard drive for anything suspicious that would be one thing, and even then I wouldn't be comfortable. But they are copying all of your information and adding it to your FBI file. When the customs agent looks though your photo album or postal mail he's not going in the back room and making a photo-copy of every page. I don't think that all of my written communications (e-mail, TXT messages, IM history, Forum posts) should permanently be property of the Gov't just because I go visit friends in Canada for the weekend.