Comments on: Fighting Microsoft's piracy check

The software pushes ahead with a piracy check tool for Windows as some users complain about system troubles and unwanted data collection.

[dagwud]

Delusions of Validity?

A product validation check makes people appreciate Windows more? Microsoft more? Get real.

I don't care if Microsoft wants to validate my copy of Windows (copies, actually). But it CERTAINLY has absolutely zero affect on how much I appreciate them.

I have to wonder how they collected that "data" and the content validity of the question.

[Sir Limey]

Validity

Validation is not the real issue, why doesn't MS inform us to what they are using our Information for? it is tiring to see how many programs are tracking your activities, Microsoft does not need to do anything other than validate their over long registration key, anything else is and should be confidential to the owner and should not be harvested by any software company at all.
Hey Apple get real with your prices and compete for my business

[schubb]

Pointless

As most every tech news outlet has reported at one time, the pirates use Volume license keys from big business. That makes them infinitely harder to shutdown, you invalidate 1 or 2 keys and 10,000 machines go without updates and complain about illegal keys.

They say this is to stop the back room resellers putting pirate copies of windows on machines they sell....sorry I don't buy it.

[Below Meigh]

I did buy it...

What about the IT employee that decided that buying $200 XPHome machines and then installing a VLK to get the machines to Pro..all because the boss wanted to save money? I've seen it. I've had to fix it.
I don't like MS spying (it's spyware, isn't it?) but I also agree that there are too many illegal licensed machines...search the torrents, even google for Windows XP Volume License and see what's out there...
Bravo MS...keep us legit. Just make sure to keep charging us for an OS that allows trojans, worms, keyloggers, virii, spam and spy-mal-ad-ware...

[komradkyle]

stupid

come on microsoft had a monopoly for years its time it ended

[WJeansonne]

There Will Always Be Software Thieves

The thieves are the one's obviously hemming and hawing about the validity check. You can't cheat an honest man, as the saying goes. As usual they want something free with all the benefits--what a joke. I personally have never run into any problems with it. If they are looking for something "free" they should go try that turkey OS called Linux and watch how fast they come running back to Windows.

[jsmith1785]

Privacy

It really doesn't matter whether it's pirated or not, Microsoft does not have the right to go poking through *your* personal computer to see what's on it. I don't have a problem with them trying to stop piracy, but don't invade my privacy to do it.

And yes, I've switched to that "turkey OS called Linux" and haven't looked back. Spent a few years dual booting, then at the beginning of this year, I wiped Windows and went Linux only. CentOS 4 for a while, and a couple weeks back, Ubuntu 6.06 LTS.

Everything I need is here, web/email, office software, image editing, web page development, CD/DVD burning and multimedia, everything works. As a bonus, being a web designer, my favorite editor just happens to be Linux only, Quanta+.

I have never looked back. And when Vista ships & forces massive hardware upgrades for the new Aero interface, my NVIDIA GeForce 2 MX400 will be doing the 3d effects just fine with XGL.

[Methuss]

Lazar is dreaming...

"Our experience is that customers--as long as the process is understandable, unobtrusive, quick and painless--appreciate not only their copy of Windows more, but also appreciate Microsoft more," David Lazar, director of the Windows Genuine program at Microsoft, told CNET News.com last week.

Experience with WHO? I don't know a single legitimate customer that would validate (pun intended) that statement. Not to mention the fact that the entire process actually exposes some customers, such as those in finance or military, to violations of law by allowing their systems to be compromized by an outside entity.

[kamwmail-cnet1]

There will always be Microsoft Thievery.

MicroShaft had done it in the pass when they sent out the same info with their Windows 3.1 program. Now they're trying it again with WGA for WinXP. Tell me, Microsoft employee you, why should Microsoft know what programs (non-microsoft programs) are installed on my PC's? Will cookies and script files be sent over next?

As for Linux, yep, already looking into it. Will definitely install Linux on some of those PC cases with that Windoze XP sticker on the side. Hey, can I have a refund if I mail in those XP license stickers? I mean, afterall, you charged me for it and are now driving me off of it.

[Neo Con]

This is a free market, people!

If you don't like the product, don't buy the product. It's ridiculous how people who ***** and moan about Windows and rave about OSX and Linux seem to continue to use Windows. If it gives you that much angst, stop using it! For the love of Pete, take your own advice and switch to one of Microsoft's miriad competitors!

And please don't hack the product illegally and then bask in your own self-righteousness. That only makes life harder for the rest of us trying to make a living writing software.

[kamwmail-cnet1]

Hack the product illegally?

I bought it. It's mine to do with as I wish as long as I do not sell it or otherwise profit from it.

Another stupid armchair lawyer.

Come to think of it, another stupid armchair economist too. "It's a free market", hey so why are you buying gasoline if you don't like the environmental impact? Just buy something else. "It's a free market".

[boolean22]

People would buy the soft IF...

The ******* piece of **** worthed the money spent. In some countries ya can't just buy Windows, cause it costs almost half the PC!! And don't tell me they still can buy Windows Starter, 'cause it can't be installed on good config PC, only in crappy systems. The mere fact that they're charging a piece of software that is only the barebones of what a real system should have (read: photo-editing, authoring, stability, Antivirus, Antispyware, etc.) is just nonsense. The OS is the BASICS of computing. I can take that Adobe systems charge 1 thousand for their suites, but that's a Pro app. Windows, although they call it Pro, has nothing Pro to it. It's still a basic platform.
That's what made the software so unpopular.

[volterwd]

I bought the software

and you friggin moron this wasnt in it when i bought it.

I bought a legit copy so what the heck should i be dealing with their problem?

[timb2006]

Free markets...

I build my own computers, use Linux (partial to Ubuntu) and I stare unaffected at these kind of arguments. But being smart enough to legally not pay for an operating system which makes these kind of demands on legitimate users does not preclude comment on issues - one could ask, for example, why Microsoft would settle with defunct operating system Be for $23M payout if they considered themselves free marketeers rather monopolists? I would suggest you explore another great concept of democratic societies - free speech. Some people consider it of greater issue than free markets. I find the idea that people should only comment on issues if it affects them personally to be repugnant - genocide, anyone?

[gbrayjr]

How irresponsible...

To highlight a crack program with no verification whether it contains a trojan or other malicious software. Disclaimer or not,this is irresponsible. Anyone willing to download some random crack program to get around WGA is really taking a risk, and CNET isn't serving its readers well by featuring such an approach.

[kamwmail-cnet1]

Assuming you know what a hack is..

you would know to run virus scans and monitor it's online access activity.

Nice try in sounding self righteous and "knowledgable" (puke).

[sarmasriram]

Doesnt make sense

I don?t see people having issues with their Car security alarm that goes on and on even though nobody wants to steal it. Everything has a bug! Remember that!
I am sure you'd add all sorts of anti-theft stuff to your car and brag about it (even if it malfunctions once in a while).
But when a software company does it (especially MS), you go bonkers!!!
Take a break guys! Be practical... Microsoft spends loads of money developing these software and nobody would want their hard work to be taken for a ride.
You don?t like it, don?t use it. But whatever u do, stop cribbing!

[kamwmail-cnet1]

Nope, not especially MS.

I went bonkers with stupid companies and their "cookies" on the website, too. It's basic. It's something called PRIVACY. Look it up, it's an American thingie. You might not understand it.

[heystoopid]

Who needs WGA anyway?

Who needs WGA anyway, for with Windows XP, I've found and excellent p2p torrent file(or HTTP) on the neowin net, with regular updates of security fixes and patches, with either a smart, or user manual select feature!

It sure beats M$'s, adhoc marginalizing approach by a large margin!

At least the net, does provide one with the freedom of choice at this point time!

[andrewholden]

Thanks Microsoft, a new Mac user is born!

I´d like to thank Microsoft for introducing this stupid check - it
was the final straw that made me dump my perfectly valid one year
old Windows XP Pro laptop for a wonderful MacBook Pro! Windows?
Never again!

[fred dunn]

WGA and VISTA both are going to sell Macs...

This paranoid mentality of MS and their upcoming Vista Bloatware has me about to switch and I even build my own. This will come to a halt if I migrate to the MAC but what I have seen of the Beta version of Vista is not good. That coupled with an MS that will challenge my confidence with them by making WGA a critical update has me seriously opting for Apple.
Mind you, this will not be inexpensive for me since I have been running MS since MS started.

[chuck_whealton]

Macs Rock!

Aren't you glad you did it? I'm using a Power Book right now.
It's great. Excellent OS that pretty much does everything
Windows does and doesn't crash while doing it!

Don't get me wrong, I believe that Windows has it's place out
there, but the Mac OS is excellent.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

[wjohn587]

Hooray for Microsoft!!

I'm glad Microsoft is becoming much more aggressive with the WGA tool. I have never understood why some people think they are entitled to free software. Why should I continue to pay for those who steal the operating system and other software?

[jsmith1785]

Paying for pirates

Do you really think that if they stopped every single pirate copy of Windows worldwide that they would actually drop their prices? I think not.

[kamwmail-cnet1]

Who said anything about Piracy? It's PRIVACY.

But hey, I guess you MicroShaft employees have a difficulty in understanding the difference.

[kamwmail-cnet1]

Who said anything about Piracy? It's PRIVACY.

But hey, I guess you microsoft employees have a difficulty in understanding the difference.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Why do I have to pay?

For an operating system I don't use. I have tried
to get a refund or get a bare-bones system yet I am
still forced to pay the Microsoft tax? Why??!

[R Me]

Idiot

Because for years Bill Gates forced people to buy software they did not want or need and now karma is kicking his a$$.

No one except an idiot would feel sorry for Gates. He is an extortionist. A thief. A liar.

He is getting his just rewards now, and still he is crying all the way to the bank.

Torrents forever!

[mozartsbum]

thanks

As a legitimate Microsoft cumstomer, having purchased Windows XP Professional, I too resent the anti piracy update. It's repeated pop up results in my hitting the red X every time. There are more simple, benign methods of ascertaining that I have a legal copy of the OS. Like anyone going back and forth from a live concert gig, just showing their ticket or stamp is enough to get past the doorman/men. Having the installation of Microsoft spyware is like being body-checked as well as showing proof of purchase in order to go to the toilet or go outside for a breath of fresh air. It all adds up to the global paranoia going on currently because of the neocon anti terrorist feeding frenzy that has eaten up and regurgitated the entrails of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. Like the useless failure of the USA football team in the World Cup, this isn't evidence of a nation in decline.
Cheers.

[Comment101]

Legitimate Users Harmed by WGA

Contrary to the claim that only thieves are inconvenienced by WGA. I have a legal and valid Windows XP that was incorrectly invalidated by the defective WGA software. This denies me updates and patches to which I am entitled and leaves my system open to the myriad Windows security flaws.

The WGA tool encourages me to buy the software again (the software that I already own) and does not provide any way for me to contact Microsoft over the WGA error.

I am severely and negatively impacted in the following ways:
- Legitimate software that I own has been invalidated.
- I am denied critical Windows updates.
- I either have to take an excessive amount of time to track down contact information and argue with someone at Microsoft over the incorrect invalidation of my software, or I have to simply give in and buy the product again.

I am certain that I am not an isolated case. Microsoft has undoubtedly screwed countless other legitimate product owners.

[Dalkorian]

one here!

Over the weekend I ran Windoze Update manually to make sure I
got the latest patches (I do have it set to do this automatically,
but the machine isn't always on - or plugged in:). Unfortunately,
since I work with Macs at work, I got lazy and just installed
everything.

When the wga trashware tried to phone home, my firewall asked
me if I wanted to allow this. I said no, thinking it would be fine.
The machine kept working all night without issues.

Then I tried to start it again last night. WGA can't verify my
license (yes, it's a legally purchased copy with a real and legal
license), so IT WON'T EVEN LET ME LOG INTO MY OWN MACHINE!
To access MY OWN COMPUTER, I have to hook a phone line into
my modem and allow it to phone some 800 number to verify my
legal license. Nice way to get around my firewall.

Unfortunately for them, I'm too stubborn and ticked off to allow
this to happen. Unfortunately for me, it's hard to remove the
program and edit the registry when I can't even log into the
machine. I'll be looking for my install CD tonight (it's in storage)
and hoping there's a way to still roll back to a prior restore
point.

My point here? I'm a legal paying customer, not a pirate, yet I'm
being treated as a criminal by Micro$haft. NEVER AGAIN.

Once I get some dough together, it's MacBook Pro time for me.
My legal copy of XP will go into BootCamp and my current PC
will turn into a Debian box. Screw this noise MicroCrapWare - I'll
never be suckered by you again. May you burn in bankruptcy
hell.

[Tinned_Tuna]

Legitimate users are harmed by WGA

I suspect around 20% (pure guess) of legit users are hassled by errors from WGA. From example I have 3 licenses for WinXP, and after installing it in a virtual machine, none of the 3 worked. The 3 came from OEM machines, which had had their hard drives formatted and Linux installed on them. Technically, shouldn't I be able to use those licenses? I think M$ is being over aggressive here.

Also, the way it just happens to take a flak cannon to your firewall and personal privacy is not great. It is horrible, I do not want my machine's to have these sorts of security flaws in them. If spend a couple hours locking down a WinXP box, only to have a "Critical update" blow it all to pieces is not great for me.

Ahh well, I could always kill it at the router, or if I can't do that, take it off the internet... Most non-techie users who are hassled by this are just gonna flop at this, and go buy another copy of Windows.

I just hope this helps push users to a better, more secure OS, like Linux, or if they're feeling brave, Linux (Ubuntu! go google Ubuntu) where YOU have control over your machine, not M$, or some cracker who managed to find an exploit in the WGA tool.

And the fact that it is just a beta, and normal users, and people who may be using their computers in corporate environments and *NEED* their computes for their day to day work, and may loose revenue if it becomes non functional due to beta software are being exposed to an unnecessary risk. If your machines are mission critical then sue Microsoft!.

[Tinned_Tuna]

Legitimate Users Harmed by WGA

I suspect around 20% (pure guess) of legit users are hassled by errors from WGA. From example I have 3 licenses for WinXP, and after installing it in a virtual machine, none of the 3 worked. The 3 came from OEM machines, which had had their hard drives formatted and Linux installed on them. Technically, shouldn't I be able to use those licenses? I think M$ is being over aggressive here.

Also, the way it just happens to take a flak cannon to your firewall and personal privacy is not great. It is horrible, I do not want my machine's to have these sorts of security flaws in them. If spend a couple hours locking down a WinXP box, only to have a "Critical update" blow it all to pieces is not great for me.

Ahh well, I could always kill it at the router, or if I can't do that, take it off the internet... Most non-techie users who are hassled by this are just gonna flop at this, and go buy another copy of Windows.

I just hope this helps push users to a better, more secure OS, like Linux, or if they're feeling brave, Linux (Ubuntu! go google Ubuntu) where YOU have control over your machine, not M$, or some cracker who managed to find an exploit in the WGA tool.

And the fact that it is just a beta, and normal users, and people who may be using their computers in corporate environments and *NEED* their computes for their day to day work, and may loose revenue if it becomes non functional due to beta software are being exposed to an unnecessary risk. If your machines are mission critical then sue Microsoft!.

[umbrae]

Here is one for you...

I have a legitimate copy of windows xp. It has failed WGA almost everytime I have tried to run it (thank god for hacks).

In frustration, I have installed the same version on 3 other machines using the same license key (an OEM copy, so technically all these other machines are out of license/pirated) and they pass WGA perfectly.

If you think WGA is used to stop piracy you are wrong: it is meant to track you and send your information back to Microsoft. More likely it is reporting whether Office or Halo are legit rather than Windows. I doubt MS really cares whether Windows is pirated. It has sent internal memos in the past claiming piracy lead to windows popularity. A copy of windows on a machine, legit or not, is a good thing for Microsoft. However, the same can not be said for other Microsoft software.

If WGA is meant to detect pirated versions of Windows, then, by my tests, it fails horridly.

[freemarket--2008]

All users cheated

As has been determined in many lawsuits, all users of MS software have been cheated. Whether they know it or not. MS has abused it's monopoly position and continues to do so. Only a small portion of their customers have been compensated and not very well at that.

It's one thing to be the best, it's another to cheat your way to the top. If only more people would fight back.

[metsrok]

If you're legit user...

You should fill out the form online if you know you have a legit copy from and OEM, and it won't validate it.

[kamwmail-cnet1]

MS employees here have a prob with understanding Piracy & PRIVACY.

It appears that the MS employees posting here have extreme difficulty in understanding the difference between Piracy and PRIVACY.

According to MS dictionary, if you value the American fad called PRIVACY, YOU Must be a PIRATE.

[pmfjoe]

PS...

ps. I forgot to add that in all reality, you just own the right to use the software, you dont actually own the software which is why it is called a license. You have to think of it as a long term almost non-revocable lease (I say almost non-revocable because many EULAs have some type of revocation of license section.

[dtrues]

WGA Causes Blue Screen of Death

I finally allowed this thing to be installed on my computer, and what did it get me? It caused my computer to crash immediately upon reboot. If it wasn't for my non-microsoft firewall I'd have been screwed. After replacing the driver which caused the problem, you can't uninstall WGA, I was rewarded with a lovely message telling me that my legitimate copy of Windows wasn't genuine. News to me, my four hundred dollars, and CompUSA. Thanks Uncle Bill, Good Riddence.

[Penguinisto]

Thank heavens I don't use Windows...

Because having Yet Another Hole punched in the firewall just so the OS maker can keep tabs on what I do, and worrying that an update or a feature may not be available because a bug or a smiliar CD Key may make them think that I somehow pirated their OS?

Yuck.

Seriously - my Macintosh doesn't do this at all, and my Linux boxes were installed from .iso files that I legally and freely downloaded.

It must really suck to be forced to subject one's personal data and personal property to the capricious whims of a large software company.

Okay, I can understand the need of a given company to prevent piracy of their products, but seriously... this method is rather intrusive (and costly in terms of bandwidth for those overseas who get taxed for it).

No way, folks... I may never play HalfLife2 and such (though Quake4 runs just fine on my Mac...), but at least I know that no one is rummaging through my computer and leaving open potential holes for crakcers and script kiddies to wriggle in through.

[vc73]

Life in a G8 Country

I am not suprised by the predictable outrage of all these "legitimate" users of Windows XP. In the West, there are copyright and patent laws that are supposed to enhance quality of life and protect each individual's right to innovate (i know its not perfect...). Imagine if our society degraded to the point where all software was pirated (a case akin to Asia's moral fibre today). Who would want to do business? There wouldn't be any capital justification to labour relentlessy; the end would never justify the means. I would like to think we are different. Microsoft has every right to protect their property; it is their fiduciary duty to the Microsoft stockholders and employees. I hope the WGA is implemented immediately upon the launch of VISTA so everyone knows the rules from the get-go.

[wascallywabbit]

Oh Puhleese

Lemme get this straight...Have you looked at which "society" is cleaning the economic clock of the G8 countries? I'm sorry...just where do the Walmarts of the world get virtually all their goods manufactured? The software I've purchased from Microsoft is not "their property"; it's mine. If us "G8"-ers are soo superior to the immoral Asian masses, can you please explain why companies like Sony and Microsoft insist on treating us the same. Or why, we should be unwitting testers for their buggy software (software that I might add is of no value to use "G8"-ers)...If Microsoft wants beta testers, let them pay for them. All this from a company that wants you to trust it blindly to install "security" products on your PC.

[Ted Miller]

Sell for less

Windows XP Pro $25 dollars for everone
Office XP 2003 Pro $25 dollars for everone

Trash all other versions (Home and MS Works Small Business)

All people will get first education on how to use Office software in their home.

All will be cheap enough making it worthless to pirate.

LINUX will be dropped for the cheaper Microsoft.

Mac's will become doorstops.

No more need Genuine Advantage Checks.

Everybody smiles everybody happy.

World Peace!

WOW...........The simple life!

[willdryden]

Life in a G8 Country?

>>I hope the WGA is implemented immediately upon >>the launch of VISTA so everyone knows the rules >>from the get-go.

Me too. That way no one in their right mind will buy it.

[mjohnson13]

Life in a G8 Country

Once again, I'm not sure if you are a blatant troll, a M$ shill, or just pathetically lost-in-the-woods naive. Truthfully, I have no idea which is worse.

Living in the G8, as you would seem to indicate, companies are entitled to do pretty much anything that they dang-well please, just because, you know, they can? And that we are somehow vastly superior to the "degraded society" of Asia because of our system of copywrights and patents that have become patently (haha) intrusive and invasive.

Living in the "first world" of the G8, shouldn't I, as a taxpayer and a non-criminal, be treated as such? I have violated no copywright laws, every MP3 that I have is from my CD collection that I bought and paid for with the fiat money issued by my government. Yet I have to subject myself to the digital equivalent of a body cavity search just for the privilige of running overpriced bloatware just so that I can play Oblivion without heart ache? Ummmm... Well, hell no. WGA is not the straw that broke the camel's back (it was, truth be told, added after the fact; YAAOOK*) (*yet another act of overkill)
, it's just one more indignity. One more slap in the face.

If this goes on, then maybe we'll see guys dressed up as techs storming a boat in Puget Sound and throwing crates of Vista into the water. (+5 to your history exam if you catch this reference.)

Back to your comments regarding the Asiatic countries... I've got some Japanese and Chinese business associates that would take great umberage to what you've implied about their neck of the woods. While perhaps not as sophisticated as the people from the backwoods of West Virginia and Kentucky, I'm reasonably confident that there ARE a few homes in China that are wired for the Internet. I understand that a few of them even have broadband. One or two might even have some extra money that they use to buy, you know, stuff. And... If my sources are correct, then they even have a "white market" where they can buy... (and this is the real secret) AUTHORIZED VERSIONS. I've been hearing the cutest little rumors about this tiny, sparsely populated country called India. Maybe one day they'll even have tech and call centers there.

Perhaps you shouldn't be contributing to the general conversation. Take your condescending and rascist (and please, don't degrade yourself further by stating that some of your best friends are Asians) ravings, write them on little scraps of paper and keep them to yourself.

A final note... Your... Uh, I'll be charitable and refer to it as a "point" about the pirated software, a lack of capital justification, etc... I call attention to the fact that there is a very real and emergent OS and its attendant software packages. Linux... Coming to a desktop near you... (And if the Beta 2 of Vista is any indication... It'll be sooner than you think.)

[Penguinisto]

Turkey?

Dunno ab't that - I've been running various flavors of Linux for over a decade and have been running an exclusive mix of OSX and Linux on my personal machines for three years running now - one of the Linux boxes even operates as a personal media center for my television - it replaced my old DVD player and TiVo very nicely (shrug). I've had to reinstall OSX exactly zero times, and I upgraded one of the Linux boxes once - from SuSE 7.2 to Fedora Core 5. Zero viruses, zero spyware, zero slowdowns in performance (no registry to get corrupted, y'know), and no machine has (to this date anyway) been compromised.

Haven't felt the need to go "running back" yet. ;)