Comments on: FAQ: How will Real ID affect you?

What are the privacy implications? What happens next? News.com tries to clear up some of the confusion surrounding the controversial law.

[QuetzalcoatlUSA]

Welcome to Houston.

Where are you coming from today? North Houston? Wow, long trip. What made you take such a long ride from home, today? The flea market is better on this side of town? That sounds a little fishy. Your papers, please.

[FellowConspirator]

Identity theft

Implicit in the implementation of "Real ID" is the assumption
that a "Real ID" is a more trustworthy form of identification. Of
course, it's marginally more difficult to forge, but hardly
impossible. And, of course, one can produce forged credentials
to obtain one.

So, increased trust without commensurate increase in resistance
to falsification yields increased risk. If people start thinking that
"Real ID" is somehow superior to what existed before, then it
becomes a liability. This has the potential not only for
compromising security at airports and federal buildings, but also
in exacerbating identity theft.

With the false presumption of "Real ID" as definitive
identification, businesses and government will issue lines of
credit and apply reduced security measures to holders of the
card.

Also, I'd point out that there's a huge upside for people that live
in states without Real ID: shorter lines at the airport (90% of
travelers will have a Real ID and will go through 1 line, and 10%
will be without and go through the other line). It'll also get you
out of federal summons and jury duty :).

[semi4]

"marginally more difficult to forge" = Better

"With the false presumption of "Real ID" as definitive
identification, businesses and government will issue lines of..."

It happens now with the drivers license and SSN.

The new system will be as you said, "marginally more difficult to forge" which should make it easer for law enforcment to catch ID theft rings.

Or are you saying that we should leave things as they are, allowing ID theft to go on as it is and allowing some states to issue IDs to almost any one that goes into a DMV?

[ralfthedog]

Re: shorter lines.

If you are taking off from Tulsa Oklahoma, 50% of the people will be in the slow lane.

If you are flying from LA to NY, the slow lane may be shorter. If any time advantage can be had from switching from the fast to the slow lane, people will jump to the slow lane.

[FellowConspirator]

... foreigners

I forgot to mention that Real ID's will also be issued to foreign
nationals based on whatever paperwork they provide from their
home country. If, for example, you get a foreign passport issued
based on false credentials and may a falsified birth or baptismal
certificate, you will qualify for a Real ID too.

Permanent residents, people here on visas or certain types of
waivers, etc.

[celebrin_v]

Real ID good RFID bad

Like many other countries the US is joining what really is the beginnings of a national ID system, I don't have a problem with that as I don't have anything to hide (yes folks honesty is the best policy).

My problem is the suggestion that identiy protection is being essentially ignored!

[Article Quote]
Homeland Security said it would be too much work "given law enforcement's need for easy access to the information." It is, however, "open to considering technology alternatives to the PDF417 2D bar code in the future to provide greater privacy protections," which could mean RFID chips in the future. U.S. passports already have RFID chips embedded.
[End Quote]

Say WHAT?!? So if I can get ahold of your card, and using readily available technology ($250 USB barcode scanner), I can get all your information, how does this make our country more secure? It doesn't.

For all you RFID proponents (and yes, I bash the US Passport system for adopting this) I STRONGLY suggest you read Wired's article on RFID Hacking from February 2007.

I tested this myself based on information in that article, in 3 weeks, using a cheap laptop and $600 in parts from MARVAK and RadioShack I was able to duplicate and edit RFID keyfobs used to secure access to a company I worked for.

Do I think a compliant ID program (national ID) is a good idea? Yes
Do I think DHS is going to totally screw it up up by creating an unsecure solution because they don't understand the technology? Yes
Do I think the bad guys are watching this and waiting to have field day with the rather technically inept DHS? Yes

Welcome to the modern age of technology DHS, put down your billy clubs and walkie talkies, time to step up and do it right.

[MTGrizzly]

I wondered how many posts before I got to the "nothing to hide" post...

>I don't have a problem with that as I don't have anything to
hide (yes folks honesty is the best policy)

Wanting to maintain your privacy - i.e; "hiding" something does
not mean you are criminal. Do you have curtains on your
windows? Have you run down to your local law enforcement
agency and provided them with all of your biometric data, a
summary of your comings and goings, a complete record of your
business transactions, what you and your wife discuss in bed at
night, what you do with your wife in bed at night, is your SS#
painted on the side of your car, et cetera?

I seriously doubt it. So, why are you advocating "honesty is the
best policy" when you are, in fact, hiding things from the powers
that be? "Hiding" does not mean that you are doing something
illegal, it means that you are, like most humans in modern
society, enjoy your privacy.

Real ID will deny you much of that privacy. As you say yourself,
it will be incredibly easy to pick up the information that will be
encoded on the back of the ID. RFID will make it even easier.
This does not even begin to take into consideration how easy it
will be to break into the databases or for them to be
mismanages. Nor does it take into consideration what will
happen when the government outsources the management of
this database to a private corporation...

The DHS is not going to "step up," as you say and do this right.
They are incapable of "doing the right thing," they're the
government. Remember Katrina and FEMA, it took them nearly a
week to just get there. And we are going to trust these people
with all our personal data?

[godlyfrog]

Real ID bad, too

"Like many other countries the US is joining what really is the beginnings of a national ID system, I don't have a problem with that as I don't have anything to hide (yes folks honesty is the best policy)."

This argument is only half right. Not having anything to hide should never equate to being guilty (Sir, step out of line.) before being proven innocent (You're clean, you're free to go.).

[Mikeatle]

Too much work???

I had the same reaction to the part about "too much work":
Homeland Security said it would be too much work "given law enforcement's need for easy access to the information."
What the?!?

I don't give a damn how much work it is or how easy they want to make it for law enforcement. I want my information secure.

As for your comment on honesty, I think you are getting two very different issues mixed up. I can be a perfectly honest person and still not want my information readily available to some backwoods cop wanting to prove his manhood.

This whole "homeland security" load of bull needs to come to a stop. I sincerely hope McCain (or whatever Republican gets the nod) loses and we get someone in the White House who will dismantle the Bush march toward Fascism.

[curioman]

I concur with Mikeatle

The Real ID is a giant step toward fascism, and is a rape of our freedoms. Stop it while you still can!

[godlyfrog]

Fat chance

Per the article, all of the Presidential nominees voted for the Real ID, except for Ron Paul. It was unanimous in the Senate and a huge majority in the House. The only way this is going to be stopped is if you vote for Ron Paul, or hope that this is overturned by the Supreme Court.

[nicmart]

Thanks, Declan

As always, interesting and useful writing from Cnet's best.

[inachu]

wrap your rfidID in tinfoil

RFID security sleeves are already on sale for wallets that prevent data from leaking out.

[aka_tripleB]

Do those fire-proof safe block RFID?

It obviously wouldn't be the only thing I'd use it for. But if it does, that's where my ID is going to stay unless I know I'm going to need it.

[ColdMast]

what ever happened to Liberty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty

[semi4]

Liberty has always come with a cost...it has never been free

As I said in another post...should we let the terrorist?s blow up more building because it is what they believe in doing?

We can't give everyone anything they want. There are limits to liberty.

Some states make it very easy to get fake IDs. In Washington the DMV is not allowed to even ask if you are a US citizen and when you get the drivers license you are auto registered to vote.

If some of the states were not stupid with their rules on issuing IDs to almost anyone (even the dead) then the Feds would not need to put their foot down.

Sorry but this isn't anarchy...Liberty has limits.

[Save_Me_from_my_Govt]

"One Nation, under surveillance"

Welcome to Amerika... May I see your papers, please?

God help us all... We've become the very thing that the founding fathers would roll over in their graves to see.

The Bin Laden's of the world must be laughing their heads off. They've accomplished what they set out to do; hose our economy, and allow a lunatic in power to use fear-mongering to shred the Constitution and turn the whole country into a police state where our very movements and privacy are tracked by our own government--without a warrant.

I only hope that when the power is turned over to the Dems, their first order of business is to rip out all of this loathsome government spying on its own citizens.

[reddragon696]

The United Police State Of America

I do not see the Democrats changing anything about the requirement of having an Internal Passport, which is what the Real ID actually is, since there appears to not be any difference between the Demos and the Repubs anymore. They both seem intent on destroying our Civil Rights and individuality just as fast as they can. It looks like bush really paid attention to his Grandfather's endorsment and support of the NAZI's and their ability to keep track of ALL people within their sphere of influence. What's truly sad is that all the sheeple of this country just set back and let it happen.

[godlyfrog]

Laughing?

They're not laughing, they're jealous. Look at the societies that these terrorists live in, and you'll see that what we're doing is exactly what they're doing, only we're making it easier to do it.

[jbrad723]

Real ID

When will I have to have my ID number tattooed into my armpit? I
sometimes wonder what we are coming to? And I understand about
security, etc. --- I spent five years in USAF's SAC!

[Thomas Paine]

Has anyone seen the United States?

In addition to travel, Real ID can affect things like the ability to enter federal courthouses and Social Security offices, veterans having access to VA hospitals, and being able to buy firearms (there goes the second amendment), to say nothing of its possible implications for voting or tracking what cold medication you buy. That's an extraordinary amount of power consolidated in the hands of a few in a single department of the administrative branch; that department, in fact, setting itself above other branches of the federal government. Note that an official of the Department of Homeland Security said "DHS does not agree that it must seek the approval of Congress as a prerequisite to changing the definition (of official purpose) in the future." Has anyone seen the United States lately? We seem to have misplaced it. I really think people need to brush up on the history of Europe in the early 30s -- specifically Germany. We can NOT simply complain to each other about government excesses and then wait for that government to ultimately do the right thing. If we do nothing more than bemoan the chipping away of our liberty, we will find ourselves with no liberty left to chip away. Rather than simply complain among ourselves and hope that officials yet to be elected do the right thing, we need to demand loudly and unmistakably that Congress remove this prelude to tyranny while we still have a Congress to make demands of.

[buckster10]

Achtung

What's next serialized tatoos or imbedded chips in our bodies???

[cirenosille]

Need a Leader

That's what we need, is a charismatic leader to voice these kinds of opinions. Someone that can get people's attention.
I see one chance of things like this not happening, or least being put off, and that is if Ron Paul gets elected. Don't know if that will happen tho.
I'm afraid that we may be moving towards something that has a good chance of ending up very dark.

[Ramalaka2]

Great post.....

Given that all the presidential candidates (except for Paul) voted for Real ID, does it really matter who wins the election?
Anyone who actually thinks there is a difference between the Dems and Repubs also believes in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus.
As Mr. Paine, noted, don't complain.
Wake up: resist, revolt and overthrow.

[nuckelhedd]

Three Cheers For This Patriot

HOORAH !!! HOORAH !!! HOORAH !!!

Well said sir


RON PAUL 08

[i_am_ragnorok]

It wasn't misplaced...

...it was intentionally and deliberately cast aside like day-old fish with the full support and endorsement of the majority, per rule of democracy. We reap what we sow.
- My best friend and I were having a discussion on the mall next to the Smithsonian "castle" when they were merely suggesting that DHS would come to be. He was all in favor of it and thought it was a good response to the terrorist threat. I said back then it would become our equivalent of the Geschtappo and that I'd rather face terrorists. Look where we are now; mandatory national cards with mandatory presentation by an organization that considers itself not bound by the very government body, and very nation, that created it.
- We indeed reap what we sow. I'm glad I moved to a state that rejects this debacle before it was too late. I'll happily stop traveling if means I can avoid more hooks from Homeland Geschtappo. We are on the brink of dissolution as "Land of The Free". Enjoy the bed you've made, America, with your very own votes ... or vote to change it while you still can. I know I do.

[inachu]

Someday demand for RealID on pc will be mandated.

Imagine RealId and Microsofts Live ID merging someday.

[Save_Me_from_my_Govt]

I didn't take long, did it?

Yeah, I was waiting for the "nothing to hide" post too. Bless their little pointed heads...

[pproctor1]

This hassles everyone to make the gummits job easier

Being natively lazy and good-for-nothing, gummit employees are always trying to make their job easier by making the lives of citizens more difficult. This has nothing to do with "security". Thank goodness the NRA (I'm a life member) has finally started to recognize this problem and change some of these meddlesome laws.

One of the major causes of the American Revolution was "writs of assistance". These allowed any low-life crown employee to enter and search the property of "his betters" essentially at will.

[bunnyman]

Mark of The Beast?

This may sound crazy & paranoid, but the Bible says that in the end days, we'll have to accept the mark of the beast, either in our hand, or foreheads. If we refuse the "mark", we will not be able to buy or sell, etc. Some have said that this Real ID barcode thing is the beginning of this type "marking". It does sound pretty darn weird!

[PzkwVIb]

That's funny

In my opinion believing in the Bible is wierd all by itself.

[godlyfrog]

Nostradamus

Nostradamus also predicted many things, which were just vague enough to let people connect the dots. You are hardly the first to play connect the dots, and certainly won't be the last. Here's a few other things that were compared to this verse:

Social Security Numbers
Barcodes
Credit Cards
Implanted ID chips
RFID

And that's just in recent history. People looking for signs and portents will always find what they're looking for.

[DRPerson]

Mark of the Beast?? I Agree!!

I've been in the Disaster Recovery business for over 12 years and am aware of all of the issues facing us today and work with companies to help them recover from disasters. When I first heard of REAL ID, that was my first thought, that this is the start of the end. When we need to have this card to buy products, go anywhere, etc., this is exactly what the Bible predicted. Also, there is a Holy War that is now occurring and this too, is part of the end of times. And who may be the Anti-Christ? It may be someone in the US or in the Middle East! Who may represent the US' current peacemaker??? Any guesses????? I have an idea but do not want to anger the people who appear to be hypnotized by someone who says the right things, but has no experience with which to back it up. Now the pieces appear to be fitting together better than they did before.

[whopua]

It's not the mark of the beast

The mark will be a either a physical or symbolic mark that proclaims your allegience to the Antichrist who will demolish all religion and force the world to worship only him as the god he proclaims himself to be. The mark will not be this ID card and it will not be for any one nation. It will be for a world government brought about by world crisis (war or economic) who's head will appear to be the greates leader history has ever known. Christ will defeat him at his 2nd coming and usher in the most wonderful government the world has ever seen. Let the reader understand.

[wlamia]

You ain't seen nuttin' yet...

If you don't like Real ID, just wait until we get nationalized health care, and we most certainly will in the next administration.

Everyone in the health care system will almost certainly have to have an identification card. It is an open question if you'll be able to opt-out or have your own private insurance -- Billary-care doesn't want you to.

A cornerstone of cost savings in all the plans is common electronic health records. My speculation is that this will be keyed to, or actually stored in, your ID card.

Just imagine the opportunities for social engineering this opens up. You smoke? Better not get cancer or heart disease, it won't be covered, 'cause you made the choice to smoke. Want to skydive, scuba dive, ride motorcycles, fly airplanes, or do any other 'risky' activity? Better save up, 'cause you might not get covered if you get hurt. Hey, better go to the health club and diet, that might disqualify you, too.

I'm not saying any of this is inevitable, just that centralized universal health records make it possible to coerce behavior based on the threat of denial of benefits. Look at how the gummit has forced highway, school, welfare, and other mandates on the states. Think they won't be tempted to put mandates on you?

[troppp]

Ditto

In the near future, you'll have to scan your ID when you go to purchase groceries. You'll have to scan your ID when you go to purchase clothing. A database determines that you bought higher calorie food (no doubt comfort food - you'll need it!) and that your clothes size went up, your insurance premiums automatically increase.

You'll have to scan your ID when you go to purchase that promiscuous software that allows you to digitally remaster old 70's tunes The RIAA is alerted... I won't even go there. By then, they'll probably have the death penalty on the books for it.

[Hammond Hank]

Real Nazi ID

'Seig heil!' you Nazi fascists at Homeland security. I just got my license renewed, and didn't have to do anything but turn my old one in to get the new "real" one. You let thousands across our borders unchecked every day, and jail those who try to stop them, but you're going to put my daughter-in-law in a different line and harass her because she comes from a different state that won't bow down to your New World Order crap?! You should be fired and thrown in jail for foisting this on American citizens, you Nazi thugs.

[Samarami]

Real Nazi ID

So, Hammond Hank. Who was the ONLY congressman to vote AGAINST the "Real ID" act? Ron Paul.

So, Hammond Hank. WHY AREN'T FOLKS LIKE YOURSELF FLOCKING TO THEIR PRIMARY "ELECTION" FUNCTIONS TO VOTE FOR RON PAUL???

I'll tell you why. THESE FOLKS WANT TO LIVE IN A NAZI STATE. That's why. Regards,

Samarami

[Samarami]

"Liberty"???

From what you just said, don't think you'd know "Liberty" if it came up and bit you in the arse!

Figure out how to get Ron Paul elected, change foreign policy, THEN you might get a sample of "Liberty". Not by having "government" grow bigger, and bigger, and bigger.....and more and more intrusive. Regards,

Samarami

[Geoffrey Dean Jackson]

Welcome to the USSR. Keep your papers handy.

To me this is starting to sound more and more like the soviet era Russia. Everybody there needed to keep their identification or "papers" handy, because they were subject to random checks by the local authorities.

Do you Americans really want this?