Comments on: Why Real ID is a flawed law
Internet attorney Sophia Cope says the act will do more harm than good and the better idea is for Congress to revisit the fundamentally flawed law.
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A unified database system for ID is perhaps a good idea with the proper implementation. But it should not have anything to do with driver licenses, which are often maintained by private sector entities. Everyone has an identity, not everyone drives...
An electronic ID card would be acceptable if and only if there is a physical switch, to prevent unauthorized reading of the information. And that only law enforcement and gov. entities are allowed to require you 'unlock' for electronic ID. There should be no easy method of writing this info to the card, otherwise we open ourselves to a whole new world of ID Fraud (quit calling it ID Theft, if you steal my wallet, you have it and I don't, but if you 'steal' my identity, does that mean I no longer have an identity?)
As for the immigration issue, I don't think it should be considered with this issue, if immigrants are here legally its not a problem. If not, its still not going to be solved by this issue regardless of how its implemented.
On that note a similar approach with a Voter ID card, would possibly be an answer to the electronic voting corruption that does exist already. With one exception, the Electronic Voter Card should be globally unique, and completely anonymous, containing no personal ID information, storing the election, issues/measures and how you voted on them only with a non-personally identifying voter ID Number. This card should have a 4-position switch to comletely lock, read-only (for verifying your vote record afterwards, against the central database counting the votes), and write-only for recording your vote, at an official polling place. And an erase option. The method of ensuring integrity of the system is you would have to present Valid registered voter ID to recieve a Voter Card, and that you are allowed to pick that card at random from a bin, such that it does not ever get associated with your Identity. Being able to verify your vote, against the official record of it can prevent the 'fixing' of elections with current systems. The validation process needs to become part of our democracy, because the whole system is being hijacked, with control of the media.
My main desire for something like Real ID is that we find a way to make the voter registration and election process secure. Right now in my state, all you have to do to vote is to sign a card pledging that you are a US citizen and a resident of the state. It's all on the honor system and never checked by the county election offices. This is a tragedy. Attempts to fix this problem have been blocked by the majority party (Democratic) in our state legislature.
If Real ID can give back our elections to US citizens only, I'm all for it and I'll accept the potential for abuse and privacy problems. Without legitimate elections, we no longer have a free country. If Real ID won't solve this problem, then we need something that will.
I suspect that the same people who are blocking election reform in our state are also the people who are opposed to implementing Real ID.
getting worse with each passing 'security' law that is passed and
acted on and then extended longer than was originally planned.
What exactly can a friggin' piece of paper do to protect us? Nothing! Terrorists will still be able to get all the stuff they need for their schemes because they use markets that are not in the least bit affected by the Real ID act. Even if the act was global (it's coming sooner than you think), the REAL bad guys are supported by crooked governments who turn a blind eye.
All this act does is make sure the government gets better control over its subjects. That's what we are slowly becoming: subjects. The whole project stems from a desire for power and money. If the government has complete power of us, they can easily get all the money they want.
It's time for a thorough house-cleaning of the government at all levels. Our founders never intended for us to have life-long politicians. They sit there and get numb and greedy, doing anything they can to stay in office, completely ignoring their vow to "defend and uphold" our Constitution.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves.
Most importantly, Absolutely No Campaigning, you are not allowed to run for office, you must be chosen (at random) and pass the screening through public forum.
This almost eliminates all of the special interests, and campaign finance issues. There will be no campaigning, thus politicians do not need huge sums of money to buy airtime, and travel around to get votes. (free communication would help fight this too.) Thus there would no reason to accept special interest money, since there is no campaining, because no amount of money will put you back in office once your term is up. This has the added benefit for the office holder in general, you can actually keep, and live well off the political salary while in office, and not have to worry about financing your next campaign. That fat salary, is your 'bride' to act in the best interest of the people.
Allowing incumbants (of this process) to be considered, against new randomly chosen prospective public office holders, could be an avenue to retaining those who are really good at it, but still respecting term limits, which may change (increase) in light of a system such as this, if it proves to be beneficial.
This public forum screening process could be broadcast on things like CSPAN, or local access channels, and allow ordinary citizens to put forth issues important to them.
Second, although it needs to be carefully worded, I do think that broadcasting known false political or legal information of any kind by public entities, should persecutable, and not protected by free speech. Currently our media, our politicians, police, military, have the freedom to lie to the American public without fear of legal recourse.
Keeping state secrets, although I don't always agree with, is not nearly as bad as lying to cover things up.
Utimately this might release the death grip massive corperations have on this country, we must ensure that all processes and methods of governement do not rely, in anyway, on any particular private sector industry or business, especially the corperate media.
P.S. we also need to buy back the Federal Reserve, in case you did not know the entire country is bank rolled by a private group (Rockefellers, Morgans and such). Our national debt is held by them, not the rest of the world. We pay huge interest on our national debt to them, when we could just buy it back, for the fixed amount written into law (something like 475 million), and quit paying the interest on this debt, and quickly eliminate the principle in a few short years. This is 100% tax payer money going directly to the richest of the rich, for the governments debt, mostly perpetuated by the huge interest that we should not have to pay. The government should be able to loan itself money interest free, provided there is proper budget oversight.
So what do you care, sportsfanonly?
Is technology really affecting your favorite sport? If it does then perhaps there will be an article here about it, at somepoint, that is more relevant to you, and we will not complain about you talking sports, in this 'technology' forum.
Since it is being touted as a "secure" form of ID, I think you will find that in 2 or 3 years, no one will "accept" the old drivers' licenses - they will require the new ID card to board a plane, go into a federal building, to cross the border with Canada and Mexico, receive social security payments, etc.
The "you do not have to have one" argument is silly.
I know what the asshats are going to do. They are going to say "Why is that a problem if you have nothing to hide!?"
I say, it's a problem because NO ONE has the right to know where I am going and what I am doing, period and done with, unless I am being monitored by the police because they think I am committing a crime.
hammer, or electric shock will be the first thing my card sees.
Lampie
I also bought a larger sleeve for my passport.
I like the authors opinion that a distributed system with each state storing its own information....cause that would be much more secure than a single system (note the sarcasm). Everyone knows that some states would have good systems while other would have more vulnerable systems. So now I can hack one system and ping data from the other 'more secure' system...
How is it possible that we have allowed the present administration to continue in office. This will pass, with some rules in effect to limit access, and soon, because of "national security" those rules will be dropped.
I have been around for 62 years and see the fall of our respect and the arising shame to be an american (I cannot capitalize it anymore). I served as a pilot in the air force during Viet Nam, have been active in my community, and am saddened by this attempt at control and efficiency. I will focus on my community and family, and keep the small hope that this nation will collectively come to our senses and honor the constitution, and personal rights that were so painfully produced.
This erosion of our personal freedom is happening with such velocity that we are becoming spectators in our destruction as a proud people.
I really can get why organizations like the Michigan Militia are forming.
Throw the hooligans out.
A sad american.
I too served in the Air Force and am thoroughly disgusted by the cowards in this country.
The official story of 9/11 is an absolute lie...and no one cares, like it's ancient history and doesn't matter. It matters COMPLETELY!
www.911truth.org www.ae911truth.org
Seems Obama would shift our direction with grace and style.
"Illegal" aliens are no different, just newer. They will drive because they need to drive to take care of their families and move around. They take the risk of being caught by driving without a license. Our nation of immigrants has always had some beef with those Italians, or those Catholics, or those Asians, or those French, or those Germans, or those English, or ............ The wine drinkers and garlic lovers and ... enjoy what the southern families pick, and other contributions many aliens participate in, a national db license to drive is only exposing us to more control in this "free" country. When will this invasion stop, and I don't mean the alien invasion.
My posts were meant to respond to other comments except my first one. Sorry about that. First time using this forum, and I make mistakes, just like the concept of this national id is a mistake.
We can correct it though, before it is in place.
While I am apprehensive about the government having more information about me, I do feel that Real ID is a security program long past due. And, while government abuse in the past has occurred, it has been rare. Further, civil liberties groups always seem to find the right avenue to correct the abuses; that's the beauty of our system.
Conversely, let's consider the effects of not having a reliable Real ID system; the ability of illegals, and terrorists, to penetrate our society, with stated goals that are to the detriment of us all.
Does the writer think that journalists, or housewives, or executives, would be singled out?
Get real!
I don't like my movements being tracked, like which nightclubs I visit, or my library book selections, or the porn web sites I visit, or...or....
But, I love the idea that people who may have bad purposes in mind can't get in my restaurant of choice, as in Israel; or on trains, as in Spain.
Here's what really bothers me; we're spending hundreds of billions of dollars to secure ourselves against terrorism.
Terrorists are driving us broke and potentially out of existence with the leverage of threats that cost untold Billions to strategize against, plan for, develop remedial programs "in case," and much more. Osama Bin Laden and his ilk must laugh several times a day at the chaos, real and imagined, that they have, and will cause.
Unfortunately, the modern world and all it's threats, are a symptomatic reaction to the hopes of people tantalized by democracy and capitalism.
Read ID may be considered overkill in a Constitutionally-driven society which values privacy, but allowing our enemies to penetrate our society at will, and execute plans that harm thousands is not a solution.
It might help to consider that Real ID would have prevented most, if not all, of the 9/11 hijackers from taking flying lessons, boarding planes, or many other activities.
We should be able to build safeguards into the compilation of a Real ID system that will minimize the potential for misuse by the government or anyone else.
More importantly, it has to start right now. We have been lucky the last few years. How long can luck last?
Americans may be finally starting to take Citizenship seriously; attaching real value to citizenship by Americans should point the way towards making Real ID a necessity, and right away.
If everyone in this country had to provide proof of their legal status to be present, we would be amazed at our loss of control of our borders, and the threats we face.
We should consider Real ID the opportiunity that it is; a way to establish a national ID system for US Citizens that is foolproof, biometrically attached and verifiable to the holder, with multiple ID points, including finger/hand print verifications, retinal verification, and in the future DNA verification.
We could start with DNA Real ID for children of US citizens that becomes part of their Real ID issued at birth.
Same thing goes for several people in the area that refurbish old homes to rent. They hire mostly illegals to put up fences and fix the homes up and pay them cash. I could go on with this but it is futile.
It's a beautiful story though that it catches criminals, that it stops illegals. But the truth be known if will keep track citizens that obey the law and those illegals, terrorists you speak of just will not use the system or find their way around it. There are already existing laws that take care of these problems if they were enforced.
are a symptomatic reaction to the hopes of people tantalized by
democracy and capitalism."
Uh, no.
A reaction to the anger of people who find our military bases in
their country?
A reaction to the frustration of people screwed by our foreign
policy?
Yea, that's more realistic.
QUOTE: "But, I love the idea that people who may have bad
purposes in mind can't get in my restaurant of choice, as in
Israel"
Are you suggesting that restaurants will screen customers using
the ID? Can you site a source? Hardly a selling point, either
way.
QUOTE: "It might help to consider that Real ID would have
prevented most, if not all, of the 9/11 hijackers from taking
flying lessons, boarding planes, or many other activities."
Huh? Are you saying that Real ID will prevent non Americans
from attending schools in the United States? Worst idea I ever
heard.
Are you saying that in the future a British passport won't get
you on a plane at JFK? How about a Saudi passport?
See? The ID is not for, and does not help, the war on terror.
Either you haven't thought any of this through, or it's tongue in
cheek. You can't really think these things and be a US citizen
can you? Papers please!
Lampie The Clown
Not really. There is still a human factor to the Real ID system. There is still room for people to make mistakes, or for somebody "on the inside" to allow bad things to happen - especially if money is involved.
No, this system will only track all the good people who have to sign up for it or risk breaking the law. Can't work without one? Who's that going to stop? The bad guys get their money through non-legal means or under the table.
I stand by my belief. If it becomes the law to get one of these, what makes you think the criminals will choose to follow this one law while breaking all the rest?
Real security comes through:
1. A REAL border control policy, and tougher penalties for crimes committed by illegals. A while back, a known drug dealer was caught illegally crossing the border with drugs in his possession. When ordered to stop, he took off running. The Border Patrol agents shot him. The man made it back to Mexico and brought charges against the US Border Patrol agents. The agents are now in prison, while the drug runner is free to go about his business. How screwed up is that?!
2. NO US Constitutional rights for illegal aliens or foreign fighters (terrorists). They are not US citizens. Don't give them the benefits of the very country they are trying to destroy.
3. A military allowed to do its job without worrying about lawyers butting in.
4. A population allowed to bear arms as guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment.
That's all I have to say about that.
These very same people presently complaining about loss of Civil Liberties and privacy will be the first in line raising their voices and complaining when the next terrorist attack occurs on American soil.
If you want to keep your rights, then you also have to take on some responsibilities of which Real ID is a minor peice in guarding American interests at home and abroad!
Ya know, all this money, loss of freedom, and effort that the
terrorist threat is costing us, has me thinking that maybe it
would be cheaper, in both the short and long run, to change
our foreign policy and stop thinking we are the world police.
We trained Bin Laden, when we wanted him to fight the
commies in Afghanistan. It was expedient, and now we are
paying the real cost of expedience.
Our blind support of Israel against the Palestinians is political
in motivation.
Having bases in Saudi territory seems to really make a lot of
people (including Bin Laden) really mad. Forget the $$$ cost of
having it there, what is the benefit, compared to 9-11?
How would you feel if China put a large military base in Nebraska? Would you thank them or get out your gun?
There are better ways to fight terrorism, starting with the
golden rule.
Lampie
You will see countless stories where DMV workers sold licenses to illegals, drug lords, and anyone else whom had around 2,500.00 to pay.
embedded chip with info. However, if your SSN is
on the chip, the Real-id card is as useless as the current piece of paper you are required to have that is supposed to be your Social Security Card.
Both your Social Security card and Medicare cards have your SSN clearly printed on them - no photo.
The Social Security card was never meant to be used for identification. It has been abused by businesses because they were able to use the SSN as a customer id tracking system.
There is NO electronic database, be it private, city, state, or federal that is or will be immune to theft or illegal use. Data is stolen from distributed and centralized databases every single day. You only hear about the most serious cases like the VA, TJX, and other very notable cases.
The Real-id card has potential if it is implemented with very very strict usage and security standards. Based upon previous federal attempts to regulate everything from Alcohol to Drugs, the Real-id program has little chance of succeeding.
- They're not looking for terrorists.........
- by 911truthdotorg February 4, 2008 8:29 AM PST
- they're looking to control and fear US into becoming scared, unquestioning sheep.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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Showing 2 of 3 pages (112 Comments)DHS is what Hitler's Gestapo could have only dreamed to be. Even Chertoff's name means "of the devil" in Russian.
And the kicker is, this is all based on the biggest lie in world history - 9/11.
9/11 was a "false flag" attack...and inside job so they could accomplish exactly what is going on now...the destruction of the Constitution and ALL of our rights, freedoms and privacy. All without little or no opposition.
We're not being kept safe, we're being destoyed.
Just this past week it came out that everything in the 9/11 Commission had to go through Karl Rove. Now tell me that report wasn't a complete work of fiction.
Please watch these Google videos:
9/11 Press for Truth, Zeitgeist, Loose Change, Terror Storm, 9/11 Mysteries, America: Freedom to Fascism
www.911truth.org www.ae911truth.org