Comments on: Real ID could mean real travel headaches

A May deadline is just one flash point in a political showdown between Homeland Security and states that oppose Real ID demands.

[kenny-J]

Send

me the money to pay for one. I already pay for a Driver's License, don't need no stinkin' passport.

[kenny-J]

Vegas isn't

necessary to human life or any ancillary needs. You don't like it, don't go there.

Flying on the other hand is a necessity for many business people, a major convience for vacationers, a major employer, not to forget that the US Government has been committed since the 20's to making air service a reality. So, they (we) will pay for empty seats.

[whmurray]

Not about Terrorism

I remember boarding a plane from LGA to DCA behind Governor Averill Harriman. The Nixon administration searched the brown paper bag in which the Governor was carrying his lunch. He laughed when I suggested that was the price he paid for being a famous democrat during the Nixon administration. Admittedly, this was an ear in which loonies really were hi-jacking planes to Cuba. Now they only need to threaten to do it.

Real-ID is not about terrorism so much as it is about demonstrating that one must now have the permission of the state to travel. This is only one of several power grabs by the governing class justified by terrorism.

Interestingly enough, one will not be able to travel within the US without a license from the state, while citizens of France can now travel through Germany to Austria without even showing a passport.

[whmurray]

Not about Terrorism

I remember boarding a plane from LGA to DCA behind Governor Averill Harriman. The Nixon administration searched the brown paper bag in which the Governor was carrying his lunch. He laughed when I suggested that was the price he paid for being a famous democrat during the Nixon administration. Admittedly, this was an era in which loonies really were hi-jacking planes to Cuba. Now they only need to threaten to do it.

Real-ID is not about terrorism so much as it is about demonstrating that one must now have the permission of the state to travel. This is only one of several power grabs by the governing class justified by terrorism.

Interestingly enough, one will not be able to travel within the US without a license from the state, while citizens of France can now travel through Germany to Austria without even showing a passport.

[pagardener]

Real Id

Guess what??? I will drive to where I want to go..forget traveling by air..forget going to Canada or anywhere outside the 48 states. Of course I am retired so I can do that. As a former traveling consultant I feel for those who have to travel for business..I suggest anyone that travels by air for vacations...don't do it for a year or so..maybe that will show the politicos where we stand on this.

[mythicalpoet]

REAL Revolution

They will have to kill me before I cattle tag myself. 1984 has come; are you going to be one of the Sheeple and bow down? This is the equivalent to branding us as cattle. We are not property of the state. 9/11 was a False Flag attack to do exactly what they are doing--to extracate all of our liberties until you have none. The NWO globalists are behind this and if you accept this chip you are accepting to be part of the evil global tyranny that is coming. HR1955 THOUGHT CRIMES BILL, which nullifies the Declaration of Independence, will soon make it illegal to even write what I just wrote, in fact you won't even be able to protest the government in any way. This bill will be voted on this year.

How about a REAL REVOLUTION instead?

[ktmotox]

Citizenship card?

What is a Citizenship Card? Never heard of that one.

[ktmotox]

Oops

Sorry. I meant to post this one to a previous comment that mentioned a Citizenship Card.

[bdennis410]

Real ID is a real solution- Get Real!!

Geez! All this crying and whining about Real ID makes me want to offer the complainers a replay of the 9/11 tapes.
If another incident occurred, like a hijacking, that could have been prevented with Real ID, who do you think would be the first whiners in line to complain that we didn't do enough?
Right!
Let's get this right. We are a free and open society; that doesn't mean that we have to offer terrorists or their new, non-Muslim recruits an easy entry into the U.S. or on board planes, ferries and trains.
More, I hope the new Real ID standards include biometric as well as visual ID standards. I want the person who offers the ID to be able to be 100% verified through that ID use. This means fingerprints, photo, even retinal scan and eventually, DNA verification. The technology is coming, and we should use it for our security.
Privacy concerns only matter if government uses the information to..what? Silence dissidents? Not in this country.
Track down people who own guns? Fat chance - No army could conquer 200,000,000 gun owners, and no citizen-based, volunteer army would even try. Monitor citizen movements? Only those that could or would aid nefarious purposes.
So let's make sure the safeguards against improper use of the Real ID database are installed, but let's not interfere with the goal of keeping those who would harm our national interests away from this country.
I'm as nervous as the next person about government intrusion, and the loss of privacy. I also don't want my son or daughter, or grandchildren to be on a bus or train or plane that gets bombed out of existence, or killed by dirty bomb fallout, or by poison gas.
We are already behind in identifying and capturing the terrorist cells that are here. Some government agency "high confidence" estimates are that over thirty cells are operating: medium confidence that there are close to fifty. High confidence that there are over 100 "sleepers" in place; in educational institutions, in sensitive government and research jobs.
And we can do this.
I hate the idea that hundreds of Billions (that's Billions with a big "B" folks!) of dollars have already been spent on security and that much more will be spent just in less than the next ten years. That money could go to education, or health insurance tax breaks, or...or...
But, I do believe that the forces of evil are planning things worse that we can imagine, and soon.
Real ID is only a very important part of the solution, but a priority nevertheless.
The states don't want to pay for another federal mandate, and I don't blame them. National security is a constitutionally-driven government mandate("provide for the common defense"), and should be paid for that way.
What I think is we should skip the state driver's license requirements and go straight to a National ID card, paid for by the government through Homeland Security reimbursement to the states for managing the process. The states in turn could use the Real ID as the supporting document for Driver's Licenses, or other ID issuance and verification.
Real ID could be verified and issued through appropriately trained U.S. Post offices (the ones that do Passports), Police and Sheriff Departments that have been trained in fingerprint and document verification, State Department offices, and more.
For Real ID, including biometric, to mean anything, it must have the highest standards of proof and verification. Anything less just opens the door to fraud and defeats the purpose. So, whiners and complainers, start thinking personal and family safety, rather than inconvenience; start thinking of ways to enhance our security, not dilute it; start thinking of cooperation, not confrontation.
Make sure that those we elect have the same goals in mind.

[PzkwVIb]

Fine

Replay the 911 Tapes. Get this stright, FREEDOM is more important than SECURITY. I would rather take my chances being blown up than to live in what is becoming Amerika.

I am not a commie, or a socialist, or a terrorist. I am an American Patriot. If you can't wrap your mind around that, then it is YOU that is living in the wrong country.

[archyopterix]

Track down people who own guns? Fat Chance

Too late. Just ask the folks in New Orleans after Hur. Katrina. The police used the national gun database to locate gun owners and confiscate their legally owned and registered guns. Most have not had their guns returned, they were destroyed. This system, while its intent is to defend citizens, has all the earmarks of fulfilling the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Combine this with Universal Health Care (control your bad habits like junk food or smoking), voter registration (you will have to permanently register as Rep/Dem), enhanced driver's license (which is already being tied to car registration, insurance, driving record, driving habits - how much gas you use, where you go (GPS tracking in Oregon)), income tax payments (how much money you have and how much the gummit will take from you to pay for all this "protection"), property taxes (they will know what you own and what it is worth), online automatic payments for monthly bills (who you owe money, what you buy, and what you pay), Internet browsing tracking cookies (what you look at, read, write, etc), and there will be no place to hide, nothing you can do, that Big Gummit won't know about or try to control.

But it will be all for your protection.

Be Happy, or else.....

[Tinman52]

Get on board

I guess I wonder what the problem is when I have US issued passport and my state (MA) has accepted the guidelines.

Sounds like people fighting change to fight change.

I enjoyed how Maine was used as the example of a state fighting the new cards. If you've grown up in the Northeast, you'd know the irony of this considering Maine id's used to be the ones that college students would counterfeit so that they could buy alcohol underage.

[pproctor1]

Papers Please-- Life in the USSA

The US now joins the old Soviet Union and other assorted two-bit dictatorships in requiring an internal passport for all travelors. Makes me want to cry for the old constitutional republic.

[pproctor1]

Reich sicherheitsdienst

The Reich sicherheitdienst was the NAZI organization that oversaw the SS and other assorted secret police bodies. The term roughly translates as office of homeland security.

[Expat type]

Do Not Fly! Live FREE or DIE!

If everyone refuses to fly, guess what? The airlines will go broke. The screaming in the financial centers will get intense, and these policies will be rescinded quickly. Spread the word! No travel till they come to their senses. In Fact, a general strike in May might just get their attention. No cooperation with any federal department or regulation. I did not serve in the military for this. Live Free or Die!!!

[Expat type]

Book an air ticket, then cancel it!

If everyone does this the message will be apparent quickly. Hordes of tickets cancelled will get the financial industries attention immediately.

[usfjss6711]

More states should opt-out

When I found out that Florida is agreeing with the Real ID it has
disgusted me. If we are going to implement a federal ID, why
not just dissolve all state lines, and Bush can be the ruler of us
all. Of course if there are no states the name would need to
change, so lets drop the United States of, and change the name
to just America. At that point we still will not have universal
healthcare, but at least we will all have ID cards that match. And
finally, setup checkpoints around America so that when we
travel with our RF chipped ID the government will know exactly
where we are, where we have been, and maybe they will know
where we are going (after a good ten years of monitoring
someone you most likely will be able to predict that kind of
stuff....)...

So ya, lets go for it.

1984

[semi4]

Illegal to ask the Citizenship of ID applicant in WA

In Washington state a DMV person can be fired for asking the citizenship of someone who is applying for a driver?s license and when the driver?s license is issued to the illegal alien/terrorist they are automatically registered to vote.

I find it comical how many idiot children there are in the world that want it to be easy for valid identification to be obtained by ?illegal? aliens or ?terrorists?.

If it requires the Federal Government to spank a few childish bottoms and slap the stupid out of a few state bureaucrat ?GOOD!

I for one do not like the Federal Government stuffing its nose into the states business but in this case there are many states being run by the inmates of the asylum. If your state makes it easy for terrorists and illegal aliens to get valid identification you should be beating down the doors of your State legislators not blaming the Federal legislators.

Many people have phobias about an intrusive Government but seriously, any that have a problem with their state ID only being issued to valid criticizes?you may be playing with a full deck of cards but you?ve lost the box that holds them all together.

States should have jumped on this long ago. The Feds should not have needed to force the issue.

If your state does not like the guidelines for IDs that have been put together by Homeland security then put your own security measures in place to ensure that terrorist do not have easy access to valid IDs but don?t put on tin foil hats, howl at the moon and hand out valid IDs to any terrorist or dead person that may apply.

[PzkwVIb]

Only an idiot

believes this has anything to do with terrorism. You are not going to catch terrorists with this. Anyone with a brain knows that there is no such thing as a unforgeable document and you can bet that terrorists can lay down enough money to get them. There is NO valid excuse to have a federally mandated ID and that is the direction this is going.

[ktmotox]

Great Post

I'd be very happy to live with an ID card and system that meets the Real ID requirements. I want my vote to count again. I want foreigners to stop voting in our elections. It's not their country.

I think semi4 posted one of the few intelligent comments on this talkback thread. The election system in the state of Washington is a disaster that the state legislature refuses to fix. The federal government has to step in.

There's no reason to speculate that Real ID won't work and is easy to forge. Let's just try it and see. We can always improve it to be more secure if it turns out to be necessary.

I heard Michael Chertoff commenting yesterday that there is Federal money in the 2008 appropriation to help the states pay for Real ID, and there is more money in the just proposed 2009 budget. The states have no excuse whatsover not to implement this.

[krosavcheg]

REAL-ID

What good fortune for governments that the people do not think.

Adolf Hitler

[mp44]

I thought they extended the deadline for states to comply

"By Spencer S. Hsu
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, January 11, 2008; Page A03
The Bush administration will announce today that states will
have more than five additional years to comply with its
controversial nationwide Real ID program, the second such delay
in a year, people briefed on the plan said yesterday.

By May 2011, the program to tighten national standards for
driver's licenses would require motorists born after Dec. 1,
1964, to submit a digital photograph upon application, a birth
certificate or similar proof of identity, and a statement on
penalty of perjury that information provided on applications was
true, they said. Other changes would take effect in 2014.

Drivers older than 50 would have until 2018 to meet the new
license requirements, according to sources who spoke on the
condition of anonymity before today's announcement by the
Department of Homeland Security."

http://www.ncsl.org/standcomm/sctran/Real_ID_news.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2008/01/10/AR2008011003971.html

[declan00]

may 11 is the effective date

Two thoughts:

1. The extension doesn't apply to states that are not complying with Real ID.

2. We said this repeatedly in the article. Go back and reread it. Here's an excerpt:

In just more than three months, millions of law-abiding Americans might face new hassles when traveling on commercial flights if they hold driver's licenses or identification cards issued by Maine, South Carolina, Montana, Oklahoma, New Hampshire, and up to 15 other states plus the District of Columbia that have rejected the Real ID regulations on privacy and cost grounds or have not agreed to comply...

In proposed rules last March, DHS offered a five-year extension, until 2013, for states to issue the new cards. The catch: to receive the reprieve, a state must agree to abide by Real ID regulations and submit a report describing its plans. Those that don't will find their driver's licenses disallowed at airports in May 2008.

Even the pro-Real ID states balked at that timeline, and the estimated $14.6 billion price tag for implementation. As a result, in the final rule released last month, DHS extended the deadline a second time to December 1, 2017. Only states that can prove they are well on their way to implementing Real ID qualify for the lengthiest deadline extension.

To take advantage of any kind of extension, states must request a waiver from DHS by March 31, 2008. DHS guarantees that "all states submitting requests will receive extensions until December 31, 2009."

[My-Self]

Using papers to control population movements

Using administrative papers to monitor, control or prevent population movements and thus limit people's freedom to move was one of the worst aspects of USSR political control over it's citizen, and the reason behind the fall of the Berlin wall and the collapse of east European Comunist regimes ...

[rmigalla]

If 9/11 was a lie, why are we doing this

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3664073116607499063
http://www.stj911.org/
http://patriotsquestion911.com

[mscatena]

Bothering the innocent is easy ? and they don?t shoot back

DHS behaves like the man in the joke who is looking for his car key at night under a lamppost. Then somebody comes to help and asks:

--Where did you lose your car key?

--In that dark alley.

--So why are you looking it up here?

--Because there?s more light here.

It seems that many measures taken by DHS have the effect of bringing discomfort to the innocent while doing little to prevent a 9/11-type of attack. Things like: requiring passports for *all* air international travel by US citizens; requiring transit visas for foreigners; crackdown on illegal aliens (i. e. deporting nannies) and now RealID.

Notice that all 9/11 terrorists entered the US legally with a valid visa and could travel at will with their passports. A visitor can legally drive in the US with the driver?s license from his original country. So what is this *really* about? You may argue that it?s just a bunch of bureaucrats pretending to work. But there are more sinister explanations.