Comments on: FBI plans new Net-tapping push
New legislation, seen by News.com, would force ISPs and net gear makers to build in Big Brother.
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Joe Shea
Editor-in-Chief
The American Reporter
Joe Shea
Editor-in-Chief
The American Reporter
people. However, there are technologies available
which allows us to bypass wirtapping, e.g.
http://anonymouse.org/
Their VIP-service allows encrypted anonymous surfing
where even the NSA would need millions of years to
brute-force crack the encryption :-)
I don't see an secure connection going on either with it.
people. However, there are technologies available
which allows us to bypass wirtapping, e.g.
http://anonymouse.org/
Their VIP-service allows encrypted anonymous surfing
where even the NSA would need millions of years to
brute-force crack the encryption :-)
I don't see an secure connection going on either with it.
50% of you probably don't care about the 2nd Amendment... but it is ALL CONNECTED.
50% of you probably don't care about the 2nd Amendment... but it is ALL CONNECTED.
be a wonderful tool for organized crime and
stalkers. I mean, once a back-door is there, who
is to say the government will be the only one
opening it (nevermind that if we were as serious
about this democracy things as our forefathers
they'd be emphasizing the importance of the
second ammendment).
Door X requires key Y to sniff anything passing
through that addressable routers. Government Z
says "don't worry, we're benevolent and we're
the only ones with the key." But, analyst A
takes the key home to do a little work and kid B
sees it as an opportunity to punk kid C and
tells his buddies. Pretty soon the key is all
over the Internet. Stalkers, industrial spies,
identity thieves will surreptitiously collect
data and use it.
I believe this to be a fairly credible scenario
-- particularly in light of the fact that the
phone tapping facilities are similarly
accessible to NGOs and individuals with specific
knowledge.
be a wonderful tool for organized crime and
stalkers. I mean, once a back-door is there, who
is to say the government will be the only one
opening it (nevermind that if we were as serious
about this democracy things as our forefathers
they'd be emphasizing the importance of the
second ammendment).
Door X requires key Y to sniff anything passing
through that addressable routers. Government Z
says "don't worry, we're benevolent and we're
the only ones with the key." But, analyst A
takes the key home to do a little work and kid B
sees it as an opportunity to punk kid C and
tells his buddies. Pretty soon the key is all
over the Internet. Stalkers, industrial spies,
identity thieves will surreptitiously collect
data and use it.
I believe this to be a fairly credible scenario
-- particularly in light of the fact that the
phone tapping facilities are similarly
accessible to NGOs and individuals with specific
knowledge.
Paul
Soo much drama. I doubt very that your freedom has been compromised to the point that the honor we have for those who served and died for our country is devalued or suddenly all for naught. They served with pride and died with honor. All because of something you disagree with that may never effect any of your private dealings? Nothing about our country has stayed the same, including our Civil Liberties, Rights or Freedom. Soldiers in the Korean War died during Segregation. And some then felt it a guaranteed right to live, eat and drink more freely than a particular section of Americans based not on their actions but their skin color.
"That's right, they died for US. We are living in a cowardly nation currently, and by that I mean those who never had a responsibility, never served our country, among others."
Is that a veiled attack on President Bush or is the United States of America really defined as a cowardly nation based on a vaguely defined minority group that is not even considered U.S. Census Bureau? Our power as a nation, the symbol of democracy was not built by the weakest links. Far too many people do horrible things to people and animals but we're not a nation of animal abusers or murderers. Too many drunk drivers too but I don't feel the urge to throw my hands up in the air and give up thinking there is no hope.
"What happened in 911 was one of the most terrible trageties of our time, without a doubt. However, considering the airline did report the men to the F.B.I. and nothing was done tells me something more. It tells me governmental control comes from fear, a fear that we live in a terribly country, it's all about fear."
Yes we knew threats were made and we knew that targets areas like Manhattan was mentioned. But nothing that was known at the time was specific enough to prevent even one of the events that occured on 9/11. Why? Because the terrorist used our free society, our laws, goods and services to facilitate their plan. They lived with us and drew as little attention to themselves as possible knowing that our laws guarantee those here certain rights. You make it seem as if the FBI had detailed plans and did nothing. The topic of this thread is one of many changes our government has made. Bureaus now share information, agencies were restructured, and we learned alot about how they did it right under our noses. We couldn't operate the same as we did before 9/11. Drastic changes had to be made, and yes maybe they were made out of fear. Fear that it could happen again valid enough.
"When do we start living in a bubble and have no rights at all?"
That would never happen in this country. Don't worry though. Someone some generations from now will be asked by the authorities to move from the port he has always been using to dock his his Compact Sports Shuttle and think that it won't be long before he has no rights at all. No one is asking that you be polyannic about America's future, but you don't have to lay down and die before your time. Our freedoms empower us but also make us vulnerable.
"So, to hear some whine and cry about our freedom and that we need protection, you are too afraid of the reality of it all, too coddled to begin with. As I said, what happened on 911 was terrible and hope to never see this again, but there were warnings, many times over, what was done about it and what difference would it make to tap the internet?"
So, your personal freedom is above the security of the country that you so freely excercise them in. Talk about coddled. Again you mention the signs that were repeatedly broadcast will before 9/11. But although Bin Laden always tells us we will soon be punished for what we've done, they have never been specific in detail enough that it can be prevented. We're talking about vagabonds that utilize modern technology to plan and orchestrate things like rowing a boat up near a battleship that is filled with explosives or to live with us, trained by us to fly and combined that freedom and training with their mission from Alah to kill as many of us at one time as possible. Not combat but mass murder. And the difference that tapping the internet will make cannot be measured alone but as part of many measures that reveal the actual pieces of the puzzle that before a crisis rather than just filling in the missing pieces afterwards.
"Our government and terrorist are both to blame, we are simply caught in the middle of a political and less than moral war for sure. If we left just the governments from both sides to fight it out, and left the good people who only want peace out of it, the war would be done instantly."
Let's skip the first line for second. In the second line you used the words "government" & "both" which leads me to wonder if you are informed enough to make a moral judgement about the purpose of this war. Government implies organization, laws, a court system that allows you to challenge the laws, and people have civil and human rights. Doesn't sound like Iraq to me. And as for "both" there are more than just two side vying for representation to this newly formed government that you seem to believe would have happened all on it's own without our morally wrong participation. The "good people who only want peace" only now have a voice in the direction of their government but not long ago were oppressed, imprisoned or killed for anything we American would take for granted. Their soccer players were tortured some to death just for losing. But you think it morally wrong to intervene because in time they would have decided to share power, form a democracy and become and ordered society instantly if we had just let them be?
"Our leaders have for the most part been the true cowards while we strive for a decent free life, and tolerate too much. Those who think we need this protection are without a doubt , the most dangerous and scared people."
I'll say one thing for you and that is you're nothing if not consistant in your apocolyptic views. Internet tapping isn't meant to punish the innocent or rob us of any freedom. It is only one of many tools to help us identify those who believe they're on a mission from their god to kill us. Debate and compromise isn't an option for them, killing is. But to you "Our leaders have for the most part been the true cowards while we strive for a decent free life, and tolerate too much. Those who think we need this protection are without a doubt , the most dangerous and scared people."
I'd rather sit next to a person who fears death than next to a suicide bomber. But that's just me.
Ric
Paul
Soo much drama. I doubt very that your freedom has been compromised to the point that the honor we have for those who served and died for our country is devalued or suddenly all for naught. They served with pride and died with honor. All because of something you disagree with that may never effect any of your private dealings? Nothing about our country has stayed the same, including our Civil Liberties, Rights or Freedom. Soldiers in the Korean War died during Segregation. And some then felt it a guaranteed right to live, eat and drink more freely than a particular section of Americans based not on their actions but their skin color.
"That's right, they died for US. We are living in a cowardly nation currently, and by that I mean those who never had a responsibility, never served our country, among others."
Is that a veiled attack on President Bush or is the United States of America really defined as a cowardly nation based on a vaguely defined minority group that is not even considered U.S. Census Bureau? Our power as a nation, the symbol of democracy was not built by the weakest links. Far too many people do horrible things to people and animals but we're not a nation of animal abusers or murderers. Too many drunk drivers too but I don't feel the urge to throw my hands up in the air and give up thinking there is no hope.
"What happened in 911 was one of the most terrible trageties of our time, without a doubt. However, considering the airline did report the men to the F.B.I. and nothing was done tells me something more. It tells me governmental control comes from fear, a fear that we live in a terribly country, it's all about fear."
Yes we knew threats were made and we knew that targets areas like Manhattan was mentioned. But nothing that was known at the time was specific enough to prevent even one of the events that occured on 9/11. Why? Because the terrorist used our free society, our laws, goods and services to facilitate their plan. They lived with us and drew as little attention to themselves as possible knowing that our laws guarantee those here certain rights. You make it seem as if the FBI had detailed plans and did nothing. The topic of this thread is one of many changes our government has made. Bureaus now share information, agencies were restructured, and we learned alot about how they did it right under our noses. We couldn't operate the same as we did before 9/11. Drastic changes had to be made, and yes maybe they were made out of fear. Fear that it could happen again valid enough.
"When do we start living in a bubble and have no rights at all?"
That would never happen in this country. Don't worry though. Someone some generations from now will be asked by the authorities to move from the port he has always been using to dock his his Compact Sports Shuttle and think that it won't be long before he has no rights at all. No one is asking that you be polyannic about America's future, but you don't have to lay down and die before your time. Our freedoms empower us but also make us vulnerable.
"So, to hear some whine and cry about our freedom and that we need protection, you are too afraid of the reality of it all, too coddled to begin with. As I said, what happened on 911 was terrible and hope to never see this again, but there were warnings, many times over, what was done about it and what difference would it make to tap the internet?"
So, your personal freedom is above the security of the country that you so freely excercise them in. Talk about coddled. Again you mention the signs that were repeatedly broadcast will before 9/11. But although Bin Laden always tells us we will soon be punished for what we've done, they have never been specific in detail enough that it can be prevented. We're talking about vagabonds that utilize modern technology to plan and orchestrate things like rowing a boat up near a battleship that is filled with explosives or to live with us, trained by us to fly and combined that freedom and training with their mission from Alah to kill as many of us at one time as possible. Not combat but mass murder. And the difference that tapping the internet will make cannot be measured alone but as part of many measures that reveal the actual pieces of the puzzle that before a crisis rather than just filling in the missing pieces afterwards.
"Our government and terrorist are both to blame, we are simply caught in the middle of a political and less than moral war for sure. If we left just the governments from both sides to fight it out, and left the good people who only want peace out of it, the war would be done instantly."
Let's skip the first line for second. In the second line you used the words "government" & "both" which leads me to wonder if you are informed enough to make a moral judgement about the purpose of this war. Government implies organization, laws, a court system that allows you to challenge the laws, and people have civil and human rights. Doesn't sound like Iraq to me. And as for "both" there are more than just two side vying for representation to this newly formed government that you seem to believe would have happened all on it's own without our morally wrong participation. The "good people who only want peace" only now have a voice in the direction of their government but not long ago were oppressed, imprisoned or killed for anything we American would take for granted. Their soccer players were tortured some to death just for losing. But you think it morally wrong to intervene because in time they would have decided to share power, form a democracy and become and ordered society instantly if we had just let them be?
"Our leaders have for the most part been the true cowards while we strive for a decent free life, and tolerate too much. Those who think we need this protection are without a doubt , the most dangerous and scared people."
I'll say one thing for you and that is you're nothing if not consistant in your apocolyptic views. Internet tapping isn't meant to punish the innocent or rob us of any freedom. It is only one of many tools to help us identify those who believe they're on a mission from their god to kill us. Debate and compromise isn't an option for them, killing is. But to you "Our leaders have for the most part been the true cowards while we strive for a decent free life, and tolerate too much. Those who think we need this protection are without a doubt , the most dangerous and scared people."
I'd rather sit next to a person who fears death than next to a suicide bomber. But that's just me.
Ric
All you liberal wackos conveniently ignore the fact that government agents still have to draft affidavits, subpoenas and other legal documentation. These drafts are then scrutinized by higher officials within their own departments before they are then presented to a court for approval. It's called oversight.
This proposed legislation will allow law enforcement to catch up to rapidly advancing technology. Any sane person should not have a problem with the government monitoring Internent transmissions (email, voice, IM, etc) if the goverment can demonstrate such transmissions constitute evidence of a crime.
Wear the mantle of -TRAITOR- well, ...YOU DESERVE IT!
What TRAITORS do not deserve, ...is the AMERICAN AIR, that they are still breathing.
I just hope that when these people do get their just reward, that I am there to see it as the sword of true-justice finally falls on them.
...because, if there is any JUSTICE, these TRAITORS WILL be PUNISHED for their crimes against the AMERICAN-PEOPLE. They will be SPAT upon by the citizenry, and their descendents will hide in SHAME, and HUMILIATION, because of THEIR... DISGUSTING TOTALITARIAN ATTACK against EVERYTHING that AMERICA ACTUALLY STANDS FOR.
Ric
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
All you liberal wackos conveniently ignore the fact that government agents still have to draft affidavits, subpoenas and other legal documentation. These drafts are then scrutinized by higher officials within their own departments before they are then presented to a court for approval. It's called oversight.
This proposed legislation will allow law enforcement to catch up to rapidly advancing technology. Any sane person should not have a problem with the government monitoring Internent transmissions (email, voice, IM, etc) if the goverment can demonstrate such transmissions constitute evidence of a crime.
Wear the mantle of -TRAITOR- well, ...YOU DESERVE IT!
What TRAITORS do not deserve, ...is the AMERICAN AIR, that they are still breathing.
I just hope that when these people do get their just reward, that I am there to see it as the sword of true-justice finally falls on them.
...because, if there is any JUSTICE, these TRAITORS WILL be PUNISHED for their crimes against the AMERICAN-PEOPLE. They will be SPAT upon by the citizenry, and their descendents will hide in SHAME, and HUMILIATION, because of THEIR... DISGUSTING TOTALITARIAN ATTACK against EVERYTHING that AMERICA ACTUALLY STANDS FOR.
Ric
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
They should have named the Book/Movie 2006, not 1984...If we're not very careful these people will be running things just that way given the chance...Go ahead and laugh now but, ask a few older Germans how things went before the Nazi's seized power over there prior to WW2...People laughed them off too I'm willing to bet...
Needless to say, No one was laughing for a long time after that!
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to tap things given evidence of wrong doing or at least Serious suspicion in the proper case...This, let's tap Sallys phone tonight and see what she has to say, is another thing altogether... I mean these A-Holes are or, have been throwing the "UnAmerican/UnPatriotic" slam around at anyone ooposing what they want for too long now...
If anyone needs to be tapped, it should be the members of government...Their the ones I suspect are up to more Bad than almost anyone else in this country....
To accuse people like me of arbitrarily just "flipping the switch" and listening to "Sally" just for fun is ignorant, and offends me.
They should have named the Book/Movie 2006, not 1984...If we're not very careful these people will be running things just that way given the chance...Go ahead and laugh now but, ask a few older Germans how things went before the Nazi's seized power over there prior to WW2...People laughed them off too I'm willing to bet...
Needless to say, No one was laughing for a long time after that!
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to tap things given evidence of wrong doing or at least Serious suspicion in the proper case...This, let's tap Sallys phone tonight and see what she has to say, is another thing altogether... I mean these A-Holes are or, have been throwing the "UnAmerican/UnPatriotic" slam around at anyone ooposing what they want for too long now...
If anyone needs to be tapped, it should be the members of government...Their the ones I suspect are up to more Bad than almost anyone else in this country....
To accuse people like me of arbitrarily just "flipping the switch" and listening to "Sally" just for fun is ignorant, and offends me.
not want this. The FBI and NSA are criminals already and they want to make what the have been doing is the past seem right. I can tell when they are trying to monitor the chat and the e-mail. I won't say how I know here, but I can see when they are listening in on chat and checking e-mails. If they want to do this I want all their files opened to the public ALL FILEs!!!The government works for us, we the people are their supervisors we need to tell them what we want them to do for us, not let them do what ever they want to us. I feel less safe or secure today than I did on 9-12-01 because of the criminal actions of all the governments spy units looking at us. They are there to serve US not us serving them. They need to be humbled big time, put in their places or sent packing. This is a government for, by and of the people, all the people. We the people rule the government so lets tell them what to do. HUMMMM? KATT
not want this. The FBI and NSA are criminals already and they want to make what the have been doing is the past seem right. I can tell when they are trying to monitor the chat and the e-mail. I won't say how I know here, but I can see when they are listening in on chat and checking e-mails. If they want to do this I want all their files opened to the public ALL FILEs!!!The government works for us, we the people are their supervisors we need to tell them what we want them to do for us, not let them do what ever they want to us. I feel less safe or secure today than I did on 9-12-01 because of the criminal actions of all the governments spy units looking at us. They are there to serve US not us serving them. They need to be humbled big time, put in their places or sent packing. This is a government for, by and of the people, all the people. We the people rule the government so lets tell them what to do. HUMMMM? KATT
If you have nothing to hide like you say, then go to the police station.. let them ransack your home.. bug your phone line, monitor your emails.. and see how much you like it.. I bet you would change your tune.
- You do it then..
- by aSiriusTHoTH July 10, 2006 11:22 PM PDT
- If you want your full privacy and freedoms taken away.. give them up then. For the rest of us.. get the hell out of our homes.
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
Showing 4 of 5 pages (248 Comments)If you have nothing to hide like you say, then go to the police station.. let them ransack your home.. bug your phone line, monitor your emails.. and see how much you like it.. I bet you would change your tune.