Comments on: Terrorism invoked in ISP snooping proposal
Attorney general said Internet providers must retain records of Americans' activities to help in terrorism fight, CNET News.com has learned.
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administration. By making us afraid, those in power are able to
achieve their law and order society and other objectives with
minimal resistance.
"Oh yes, Mr. Cheney, we'll do anything you say. Please protect us
and don't let another airplane fly into a building."
administration. By making us afraid, those in power are able to
achieve their law and order society and other objectives with
minimal resistance.
"Oh yes, Mr. Cheney, we'll do anything you say. Please protect us
and don't let another airplane fly into a building."
But it appears they've done an about turn and brought this back from the dead - either that or Gonzales has failed to keep up with Congressional developments - not surprising as Congress is still mad at his Coup D'etait style invasion of their offices.
My guess is that Congress will be offering very little support for DoJ based legislation over the next few years.. so I don't expect to see much activity on this front.
Coupled with the fact that the FCC is about to have it's "ISPs must allow wiretaps on Internet Phonecalls" legislation shot down by the courts, one of whose Judges has publicy commented on their evidence as being "Gobbledygook"..
Well, I would have agreed with you just maybe a few weeks prior that the FCC using powers that only congress is suppoesed to have would get shot down easily, but just last week, Bush got one of his key yes men, Brett Kavanaugh approved by congress to have a seat on the very prominent U.S. court of Appeals for the D.C. circuit, which is usually where acts of the FCC goes before to get straightened out, like when FCC tried to enact the broadcast flag without authority from congress from doing so, I believe it was the DC circuit that shot that down. Now with Kavanuagh there, aman who has ties to Bush's eavesdropping programns, who knows whats next.
But it appears they've done an about turn and brought this back from the dead - either that or Gonzales has failed to keep up with Congressional developments - not surprising as Congress is still mad at his Coup D'etait style invasion of their offices.
My guess is that Congress will be offering very little support for DoJ based legislation over the next few years.. so I don't expect to see much activity on this front.
Coupled with the fact that the FCC is about to have it's "ISPs must allow wiretaps on Internet Phonecalls" legislation shot down by the courts, one of whose Judges has publicy commented on their evidence as being "Gobbledygook"..
Well, I would have agreed with you just maybe a few weeks prior that the FCC using powers that only congress is suppoesed to have would get shot down easily, but just last week, Bush got one of his key yes men, Brett Kavanaugh approved by congress to have a seat on the very prominent U.S. court of Appeals for the D.C. circuit, which is usually where acts of the FCC goes before to get straightened out, like when FCC tried to enact the broadcast flag without authority from congress from doing so, I believe it was the DC circuit that shot that down. Now with Kavanuagh there, aman who has ties to Bush's eavesdropping programns, who knows whats next.
They say that the data from the emails and phone calls will not be saved, then I need to question just why the hell they need the other info they want, how is the names/dates/times/locations and so on going to help fight terrorism.
The only time we become the idiots they think we are is when we buy into what they are really doing.
They say that the data from the emails and phone calls will not be saved, then I need to question just why the hell they need the other info they want, how is the names/dates/times/locations and so on going to help fight terrorism.
The only time we become the idiots they think we are is when we buy into what they are really doing.
What planet are you people living on?
Did you forget 911 and how about those pedifiles who are stalking kids on the internet?
Cannot have it both ways folks.
If you think that the terrorists are through with US you are badly mistaken .
And if you are a parent or have a family member with a child then you should be happy prosecutors and police will have access to those records. Unless you have been a victim of a pedifile you do not know how difficult it is to prosecute these criminal cases.
YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS
Also, since you are neither a terrorist or sex offender, you should have no problem setting up a camera in your home 24/7, even in the bathroom to monitor you.
See, there's this thing called privacy. The 9th amendment. Also, there is this thing called the fourth amendment, unreasonable search and seizures. People have fought and die for this very thing, the constitution that YOU want to flush down the toilet. You want to dishonor their memory. You want them to have died in vain. I don't. Freedom is what makes a democray a democray.
The people to be scared of are those in the White House and congress.
Also, this is not limited to those two subjects, read the news articles that have come out today, there was talk for them to use this for all sorts of "crime", from IP and copyright infringement, to those who have marijuana sites.
This is too much power in the hands of those who noone evens trusts anymore. I smell another plant.
You're also using that old meme, "if anyone is against this, they're with the terrorists, or they're with the pedophiles"... please, that doesn't work any longer, people can see right through that. Tommorrow, you'll be saying we need this because the Easter Bunny is planning a coup d'etat. At least argue like an intelligent adult.
this a step further. Let's have the government install listening
devices in everyone's homes. If you're not doing anything wrong,
why would you object?
Also, the governemnt ought to require auto makers to put
monitoring devices in cars that report traffic law infractions to the
police. If you don't break the law and exceed the speed limit, why
should you care?
hy are you so eager to give up rights for a false sense of security? Has fear taken you completely, to the point where no rational thought is possible? You might want to consider moving to China or Cuba, you will feel safer and be happier there.
There is a reason the framers built in protections for the people. They knew it would cause the government problems, and even allow criminals to go free. Were they stupid, or did they know that without freedoms, there is no safety?
The founding fathers warned about what is happening right now. History from germany and the soviet union are being repeated in the USA. The pathetic thing is that so many people are supporting our wanna-be dictator, just like the german people did in the 1930's. If you are old enough to remember the soviet union, did you oppose their ideals when it existed? If so, why do you support them today?
If you want to be alarmed, compare the speeches and quotes from Hitler, Goering, Stalin, ect to what Bush, Cheney and Gonzales have said. It is IDENTICAL!
So I guess you don't care if the government low-jacks you, installs cameras in your home, tracks your political activities? Who cares about the constitution when cowards like you are hiding under the bed in fear of the boogeyman that the US created?
If you have nothing to hide, they why do you care is the most cowardly, shortsighted thing an american can say.
I think that Benjiman Franklin was thinking of you when he said:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
This is inscribed on the statue of liberty: "?They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.?"
What a pathetic country we have become. It took a bit over 200 years to go from, "Give me liberty or give me death" to "I am a spineless coward, please spy on me so I can feel safe".
If only the founding fathers and the millions of people who sacrificed for our freedoms could see us now. Would they be proud or ashamed?
...as well as, any other scraps of "Freedom" left in the world.
Yes, there are bad people in the world. And, yes, really bad things DO happen. Those are facts. But, another FACT is that ALL BUREAUCRACIES tend to become CORRUPT. And, the more powerful they are, the more corrupt, and DANGEROUS, they become. That is the far more pertinent FACT, in this discussion, ...since it HAS been PROVEN to ALWAYS HAPPEN, ...NO MATTER -WHAT- THE ORIGINAL INTENTIONS WERE.
Right now, -the U.S. Government-, along with several other "Western Governments" ARE trying, as hard as they can, to finally eliminate every shred of Human-Freedom, even though these actions are, in fact, in DIRECT VIOLATION of the MOST BASIC PRINCIPLES of the United States, and ALL BASIC HUMAN-RIGHTS.
Total-surveillance, DOES MEAN... TOTAL TYRANNY. They go hand-in-hand. Only a FOOL, fails to understand THAT, ...based upon thousands of years of human-history.
But then, all of this, HAS happened before, quite recently in fact. You might have heard of it. It took "World War-II" to stop it. Sadly, HALF THE WORLD was conquered before that "...bastion of freedom", The United States, was finally able to help stop a totalitarian take-over of the world. Concurrent with that, bit of history, and continuing on before, and after, "WWII" was the aggressive-expansion of a totalitarian-form of Communism. Once again, it was the STRENGTH and FREEDOM of the -United States- which was a deciding factor in preventing the complete take-over of an all-encompassing police-state.
Now, it is America ITSELF which is in danger of allowing the "U.S. Government" to become the most powerful tyrannical-bureaucracy in human-history. And all of this on the basis of FEAR-MONGERING and, even, out-and-out LIES from a powerful-few.
Make no mistake. Without one thread of hyperbole, the world IS, once again, teetering on the brink of EXACTLY the same thing. And, this time WILL be the worst nightmare in human history. Only this time, it is US, the American-People, who are guilty of creating it. Now, it appears, WE only have TWO CHOICES to stop it:
1. Ignore the TOOLS, and the FOOLS, and STOP this ATROCITY now, ...while we still can.
Or...
2. Face the BLOODIEST CONFLICT in HUMAN-HISTORY. And, for all time, bear the label: "the MOST DESPICABLE DESPOTS in history".
Yes, I absolutely believe that what IS coming WILL make what happened during WWII look like, nothing more than, ...practice. Even now, as we speak, it HAS BEGUN. WE are allowing the United States to become a TOTALITARIAN POLICE-STATE. WE are condoning TORTURE, WE have murdered thousands of innocent people. WE are allowing a completely CORRUPT-GOVERNMENT to COMPLETELY DESTROY THE "U.S. Constitution", ...FOREVER. And, now, it turns out that OUR SOLDIERS are actually guilty of MACHINE-GUNNING INNOCENT WOMEN CHILDREN and INFANTS, in THEIR HOMES, ...while they BEGGED FOR MERCY.
THIS, HAS GOT TO STOP!
In my opinion, the greatest "threat" is to allow any free-society to be destroyed by fear. But, I honestly dont know which I -fear- more... The criminal, and TREASONOUS, -politicians who are clearly hell-bent on turning America into a totalitarian police-state,
...the IDIOTS who are allowing this to happen, so they can personally feel "safer" and, thereby, not have to feel responsible for their own lives,
...or, the governments current DESPERATE NEED for another "terrorists Attack", to help them continue with this DESPICABLE, ANTI-AMERICAN, agenda... which uses more UNREASONABLE-FORCE, everyday, ...both against alleged foreign-elements AND against "...The American People", themselves.
I PRAY EVERY DAY that I am wrong. But, I -FEAR- I am not.
What planet are you people living on?
Did you forget 911 and how about those pedifiles who are stalking kids on the internet?
Cannot have it both ways folks.
If you think that the terrorists are through with US you are badly mistaken .
And if you are a parent or have a family member with a child then you should be happy prosecutors and police will have access to those records. Unless you have been a victim of a pedifile you do not know how difficult it is to prosecute these criminal cases.
YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS
Also, since you are neither a terrorist or sex offender, you should have no problem setting up a camera in your home 24/7, even in the bathroom to monitor you.
See, there's this thing called privacy. The 9th amendment. Also, there is this thing called the fourth amendment, unreasonable search and seizures. People have fought and die for this very thing, the constitution that YOU want to flush down the toilet. You want to dishonor their memory. You want them to have died in vain. I don't. Freedom is what makes a democray a democray.
The people to be scared of are those in the White House and congress.
Also, this is not limited to those two subjects, read the news articles that have come out today, there was talk for them to use this for all sorts of "crime", from IP and copyright infringement, to those who have marijuana sites.
This is too much power in the hands of those who noone evens trusts anymore. I smell another plant.
You're also using that old meme, "if anyone is against this, they're with the terrorists, or they're with the pedophiles"... please, that doesn't work any longer, people can see right through that. Tommorrow, you'll be saying we need this because the Easter Bunny is planning a coup d'etat. At least argue like an intelligent adult.
this a step further. Let's have the government install listening
devices in everyone's homes. If you're not doing anything wrong,
why would you object?
Also, the governemnt ought to require auto makers to put
monitoring devices in cars that report traffic law infractions to the
police. If you don't break the law and exceed the speed limit, why
should you care?
hy are you so eager to give up rights for a false sense of security? Has fear taken you completely, to the point where no rational thought is possible? You might want to consider moving to China or Cuba, you will feel safer and be happier there.
There is a reason the framers built in protections for the people. They knew it would cause the government problems, and even allow criminals to go free. Were they stupid, or did they know that without freedoms, there is no safety?
The founding fathers warned about what is happening right now. History from germany and the soviet union are being repeated in the USA. The pathetic thing is that so many people are supporting our wanna-be dictator, just like the german people did in the 1930's. If you are old enough to remember the soviet union, did you oppose their ideals when it existed? If so, why do you support them today?
If you want to be alarmed, compare the speeches and quotes from Hitler, Goering, Stalin, ect to what Bush, Cheney and Gonzales have said. It is IDENTICAL!
So I guess you don't care if the government low-jacks you, installs cameras in your home, tracks your political activities? Who cares about the constitution when cowards like you are hiding under the bed in fear of the boogeyman that the US created?
If you have nothing to hide, they why do you care is the most cowardly, shortsighted thing an american can say.
I think that Benjiman Franklin was thinking of you when he said:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
This is inscribed on the statue of liberty: "?They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.?"
What a pathetic country we have become. It took a bit over 200 years to go from, "Give me liberty or give me death" to "I am a spineless coward, please spy on me so I can feel safe".
If only the founding fathers and the millions of people who sacrificed for our freedoms could see us now. Would they be proud or ashamed?
...as well as, any other scraps of "Freedom" left in the world.
Yes, there are bad people in the world. And, yes, really bad things DO happen. Those are facts. But, another FACT is that ALL BUREAUCRACIES tend to become CORRUPT. And, the more powerful they are, the more corrupt, and DANGEROUS, they become. That is the far more pertinent FACT, in this discussion, ...since it HAS been PROVEN to ALWAYS HAPPEN, ...NO MATTER -WHAT- THE ORIGINAL INTENTIONS WERE.
Right now, -the U.S. Government-, along with several other "Western Governments" ARE trying, as hard as they can, to finally eliminate every shred of Human-Freedom, even though these actions are, in fact, in DIRECT VIOLATION of the MOST BASIC PRINCIPLES of the United States, and ALL BASIC HUMAN-RIGHTS.
Total-surveillance, DOES MEAN... TOTAL TYRANNY. They go hand-in-hand. Only a FOOL, fails to understand THAT, ...based upon thousands of years of human-history.
But then, all of this, HAS happened before, quite recently in fact. You might have heard of it. It took "World War-II" to stop it. Sadly, HALF THE WORLD was conquered before that "...bastion of freedom", The United States, was finally able to help stop a totalitarian take-over of the world. Concurrent with that, bit of history, and continuing on before, and after, "WWII" was the aggressive-expansion of a totalitarian-form of Communism. Once again, it was the STRENGTH and FREEDOM of the -United States- which was a deciding factor in preventing the complete take-over of an all-encompassing police-state.
Now, it is America ITSELF which is in danger of allowing the "U.S. Government" to become the most powerful tyrannical-bureaucracy in human-history. And all of this on the basis of FEAR-MONGERING and, even, out-and-out LIES from a powerful-few.
Make no mistake. Without one thread of hyperbole, the world IS, once again, teetering on the brink of EXACTLY the same thing. And, this time WILL be the worst nightmare in human history. Only this time, it is US, the American-People, who are guilty of creating it. Now, it appears, WE only have TWO CHOICES to stop it:
1. Ignore the TOOLS, and the FOOLS, and STOP this ATROCITY now, ...while we still can.
Or...
2. Face the BLOODIEST CONFLICT in HUMAN-HISTORY. And, for all time, bear the label: "the MOST DESPICABLE DESPOTS in history".
Yes, I absolutely believe that what IS coming WILL make what happened during WWII look like, nothing more than, ...practice. Even now, as we speak, it HAS BEGUN. WE are allowing the United States to become a TOTALITARIAN POLICE-STATE. WE are condoning TORTURE, WE have murdered thousands of innocent people. WE are allowing a completely CORRUPT-GOVERNMENT to COMPLETELY DESTROY THE "U.S. Constitution", ...FOREVER. And, now, it turns out that OUR SOLDIERS are actually guilty of MACHINE-GUNNING INNOCENT WOMEN CHILDREN and INFANTS, in THEIR HOMES, ...while they BEGGED FOR MERCY.
THIS, HAS GOT TO STOP!
In my opinion, the greatest "threat" is to allow any free-society to be destroyed by fear. But, I honestly dont know which I -fear- more... The criminal, and TREASONOUS, -politicians who are clearly hell-bent on turning America into a totalitarian police-state,
...the IDIOTS who are allowing this to happen, so they can personally feel "safer" and, thereby, not have to feel responsible for their own lives,
...or, the governments current DESPERATE NEED for another "terrorists Attack", to help them continue with this DESPICABLE, ANTI-AMERICAN, agenda... which uses more UNREASONABLE-FORCE, everyday, ...both against alleged foreign-elements AND against "...The American People", themselves.
I PRAY EVERY DAY that I am wrong. But, I -FEAR- I am not.
smoking.
(Here's a quick link to a CDC release to confirm it:
http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/r050630.htm)
Last I checked, we're not bombing Philip-Morris.
Ergo, spying on Americans is not a terribly efficient way of
protecting American lives.
Fear. Gotta love it.
People willing to give up their constitutional rights--those that
this country is based on and that we've in theory given our lives
for--are cowards. Thanks for doing Osama's job for him. Idiots.
smoking.
(Here's a quick link to a CDC release to confirm it:
http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/r050630.htm)
Last I checked, we're not bombing Philip-Morris.
Ergo, spying on Americans is not a terribly efficient way of
protecting American lives.
Fear. Gotta love it.
People willing to give up their constitutional rights--those that
this country is based on and that we've in theory given our lives
for--are cowards. Thanks for doing Osama's job for him. Idiots.
Stop voting these ******* into office/giving them a job. Get someone who has a hint of common sense.
And I'm sure that if we were to spy on them, we'd find a lot more than we'd find in the public. Idiots.
Stop voting these ******* into office/giving them a job. Get someone who has a hint of common sense.
And I'm sure that if we were to spy on them, we'd find a lot more than we'd find in the public. Idiots.
- William O. Douglas, judge (1898-1980)
It is not the function of our government to keep the citizens from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.
--Justice Robert H. Jackson
It would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense, we would sanction the subversion of one of those liberties which make the defence of our nation worthwhile.
- Earl Warren, jurist (1891-1974)
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
- Abraham Lincoln, 16th U.S. President (1809-1865)
- William O. Douglas, judge (1898-1980)
It is not the function of our government to keep the citizens from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.
--Justice Robert H. Jackson
It would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense, we would sanction the subversion of one of those liberties which make the defence of our nation worthwhile.
- Earl Warren, jurist (1891-1974)
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
- Abraham Lincoln, 16th U.S. President (1809-1865)
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
- James Madison, fourth US president (1751-1836)
As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
- William O. Douglas, judge (1898-1980)
It is not the function of our government to keep the citizens from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.
--Justice Robert H. Jackson
It would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense, we would sanction the subversion of one of those liberties which make the defence of our nation worthwhile.
- Earl Warren, jurist (1891-1974)
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
- Abraham Lincoln, 16th U.S. President (1809-1865)
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
- James Madison, fourth US president (1751-1836)
As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
- William O. Douglas, judge (1898-1980)
It is not the function of our government to keep the citizens from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.
--Justice Robert H. Jackson
It would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense, we would sanction the subversion of one of those liberties which make the defence of our nation worthwhile.
- Earl Warren, jurist (1891-1974)
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
- Abraham Lincoln, 16th U.S. President (1809-1865)
- Terror?
- by bearcatbob June 3, 2006 3:24 AM PDT
- Let's face it, the REAL terror today is coming out of OUR OWN government! The Bush administration wants to know EVERTHING about Everyone! These people are the most sinister force working today! Remember: Power corrupts and ABSOLUTE POWER corrupts absolutely!
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
Showing 4 of 4 pages (292 Comments)