Comments on: Police blotter: Judge lets Feds track cell phones

Federal judge approves a Patriot Act request to monitor the location of cell phones. Other courts have denied similar requests.

[djweitzner]

important case -- convoluted reasoning

Good catch, Declan. It's indeed important that Federal magistrates
are now 3-1 on the question of whether probable cause is required
to get location information. The result in this one is unfortunate, as
you imply, but more a result of convoluted (and I think incorrect)
statutory interpretation, than a major 4th amendment argument.
I've written more about this on my blog.

[digitallysick]

we have no freedom =(

we are monitered and tracked, and watched, in everything we do, by what books we check out at the library, etc, its sad

[Vetter83]

Welcome to the new AmeriKa.

This administration has managed to void any and all rights that Americans has under the constitution! The Patriot Act was just a first step, since ALL our constitutional rights have been unsurped in the name of a 'war on terrorism'.... 'terrorism' is a tactic! not a country! nor a viable enemy! IT IS A TACTIC!!
How can you declare war on a tactic that has been used for thousands of years and will continue....
And the American Sheep go .... bllllleeeeehhh.,...

Is this what happens when laymen are excluded from Judging pers?

The average high school graduate (20 years ago) knew enough
about the constitution to make a correct decision. Attorneys &
bureaucrats are writing tons of BS every day, in complicated verb
age that is clogging up the Federal register & turning simple
common law principles into a nightmare of contradictory rules &
regulations catering to special interest groups. Why are there
more Millionaires & less middle class affordable homes? Is there
a correlation to the # of new laws written by attorney paid with
tax $ of the working poor (who should be tax exempt? but are
instead offered expensive to administer redistribution programs
that only accommodate a small % of those in need). This is an
alarming pattern. I think if there were gold or any tangible
valuable commodity for money (or backing paper the
governments could not do so much deficit spending=hidden
taxing, currency devaluation etc. Am I wrong?

[TitanBane]

Not all that important

While Magistrate judges are the first line of defense in protecting the Constitutional rights of individuals from overzealous prosecutors, their decisions hold so little presidential weight that the end result is one individual case decided wrongly (and likely to be changed upon appellate review); no later decision will be based on this one. Moreover, if I were a prosecutor I don't think I'd want this kind of warrant, absent probable cause, on the chance that all the evidence I collected based upon it would be deemed "fruit of the poisonous tree" later on.

[My-Self]

The 'Bush Witch project' ...

The judicial role of this measure is of secondary importance. This is a tool for blackmail, threats, witch hunts and political opponents control. You can bet Republicans will hire private contractors to analyze the data and gain a strategic advantage in the next 'elections' (an that's just the tip of the iceberg) ...

Do you own yourself or are we goverment property?

How can we be free when a drivers license is a permit insted of a
right (for sober adualts)? Outside NY, London & Tyoko you cannot
have a reasonable life (pursuit of happenies) without a car! reply to
prepostman1 at yahoo. Do you own yourself or are we goverment
property?

[casper2004]

Welcome to the slave trade

The only people that aren't government property, is the rich. Of course, if a rich person says something that isn't in lockstep with what Bush's views are, they'll become Chattel as well.

[Computerguy107]

Freedoms

This is just another example of how WE let our freedoms erode in the name of security. When our freedoms are attacked by terrorists we should grant ourselves more freedoms not less. Who is winning.

[My-Self]

An important error in your story ..

You wrote :

"Gorenstein also said that because the cell phone user's location is only available to police when a call is in progress, "

and it should have been :
"Gorenstein also *made the false claim* that because the cell phone user's location is only available to police when a call is in progress, "

Tracking is active as soon as the phone is powered, no matter if there is a call in progress or not (location tracking is just a refinement of the triangulation techniques already used for roaming).

If you're wearing a cell phone, this information allow them to literally 'replay' your whole life, and where you are is what you do.

And don't even think about leaving it on the table instead of taking it with you. Your normal activity produces jitter in the signal level as you move around.

When the 'feature' was introduced, the pretext was to get location information *only* for 911 calls, and anyone who clearly saw the abuse coming was dismissed (including in C-Net boards) ... once again, we were unfortunately right.

So what's next ? When do we finally learn that the microphone can also be activated remotely at any time ? (It can, it have been, and it will become 'reasonable' sooner than you might think)

BTW, since it's now authorized against everyone without any reason, I guess that include Democrat politicians, including those who once had an affair... ;-)

[steve_percy]

wrong wrong wrong

First, even if you were correct, the authorizations to law enforcement only includes first and last cell sites during outgoing or incoming calls. Nothing in-between.

Second, even when you were correct (older TDMA technology), none of the telcos recorded this information bc it had no fraud prevention or systems diagnostic use.

Third, newer technologies, used by all telcos in GSM, CDMA and iDEN technologies, do not transmit their location to the telco as they move from cell site to cell site (this old constant updating was known as a periodic or timer registration). Your phone only registers with the network when it changes major coverage areas. Until then, the telco just knows that you're somewhere in the market (city). When a call comes in for you, the system sends a page out from all towers in the city. The tower that receives your reply (the cell site on which you were camped) routes the call to you. It workls the same on an outgoing call, where your camped cell site receives a voice assignment channel request. Phones today go to sleep and do not constantly update. This is why your battery lasts three days instead of 12 hours.

[Mendz]

People today...

... are more intelligent than ever. We can identify a law, find a hole in it and justify a new law around it. I am quite impressed. In a sad way though... So what's the point of being concerned with security and privacy? The government has its eye on you... anytime, anywhere... all the time... and it's legal! Scary...

[casper2004]

The United States of America is a mob rule

It's only legal to snoop because terrorists talked too many citizens into it when they attacked us on 9/11.

[steve_percy]

You're All Missing the Point

No one makes you carry a cell phone. It's a matter of convenience. And to the extent that those records are turned over to the phone company, they're business records. Don't you want the cops to find you when you dial 911? Don't you want murderers and kidnappers (and their victims) quickly recovered by law enforcement? We're all too busy to loosely track the movements of garden variety thieves, cheats, perverts or scoundrels. Only Gorenstein has gotten it right--> 1. cell sites do not equal tracking devices (no device, no install, no government control of transactions); 2. cell sites identify only the location of a cell tower that belongs to the telecomm (as opposed to identifying the location of the phone, itself) and their disclosure will never invade the privacy of your home b/c cops cannot ascertain a specific location. Bottom line: THIS STUFF SAVES MORE LIVES THAN YOU'LL EVER KNOW!!!