Comments on: FAQ: How Real ID will affect you

In 2008, a federally approved ID card may be required to travel, open a bank account, even collect Social Security.
Photos: Electronic IDs are catching on

[jachamp]

Behold the mark of the beast

Revelations Chapter 13 verses 16-18

Re: Behold the mark of the beast

In order to make that statement, you have to interpret the Book of Revelation as literal prophecy. Once you start down that path, then it is impossible to take this system and call it the mark of the beast. Several problems: It is not an implant, the rest of the signs have not preceeded it, and it is being proposed by a committee, not an individual. The other alternative is that youi are interpretting Congress as anti-christ, in which case you still must deal with another question: Why was Social Security, our current form of national identification, not followed by fire and damnation?

[m.meister]

Hiding this bill shows how corrupt it and Washington DC are

The fact that this bill is being hidden inside an emergency
spending bill shows:

1. Just how corrupt this leadership is!

2. Just how corrupt this bill is!

Corruption thrives in darkness. This act and the "Patriot Act"
seem to be the very examples of government gone awry. These
are the very types of behavior that Thomas Jefferson warned
folks about.

[InetUser]

Hear! Hear!

Failures in leadership in the political realm abound. Not a complete list, but the list that I was able to come up with.
* Every Presidential inauguration, large corporations buy or rent out fancy, press excluded venues, and explicitly invite administration personnel specific to their industry for 'conversation'. You can just imagine what sort of conversations they are having. This is essentially buying access to the policy makers and policy enforcers for the sole purpose of begging for favors. Can the common person or even groups of common people have the same access or consideration?
* Every national party convention, essentially the same thing goes on. The same questions stand.
* How can you trust an organization that is in control of it's own compensation packages? Is it any wonder that they have the best retirement and medical benefits? Shouldn't they be in the same Social Security system and Medicare and Medicaid as the common man? Why are they so privileged? And what's worse, why do they think themselves so privileged?
* I believe that it was Congress itself that set the rules that no politician can be held to their campaign promises. If this is the case, it calls the politician's entire election platform into question. So what exactly are we basing our voting decisions on? Is there anything that prevents the politician from promising and saying anything that will get them elected and once in office do whatever is in their own best interests?
* It's really funny, but I thought that the people elected these Senators and Congressmen to their office, and they should be doing what is in the people's best interest rather than their own best interest.
* All in all, I think it's a another demonstration of a failure of leadership.

Leadership to me is something that is very significant in that it requires greater accountability and responsibility to the leader. The leader needs to stop thinking of what's best for themselves first and think more in terms of what's the best for the organization. A leader and all their activities need to be above reproach. They need to continually conduct themselves as if they were in a transparent fishbowl, rather than obscuring and hiding what they are doing.

When faced with questions as to which position they are supporting and why, why don't the current crop of leaders use their good communication skills to clearly and concisely describe their decision making process to support their position? Rather than what they are currently doing, which is to wrap their position in emotionally loaded statements designed to emotionally sway the listener? Is there no logic in their decisions?

what's all the fuss you idiots

BIG BROTHER ALREADY KNOWS EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU FROM THE TIME YOU ARE BORN,WHEN U GET YOUR SS# AND DO YOUR TAXES, DRIVE OR GET EZ PASS. SO SNAP OUT OF IT IDIOTS THERE IS NOTHING U CAN DO IN THE MATRIX. UNLESS U R THE "ONE". HA HA HA HA

Idiot?

It is people like you that are the problem. Just keep rolling over there partner. Better yet if you aren't going to do anything about it I will gladly buy you a ticket to move anyplace you want outside the United States. You are part of the solution or part of the problem, cupcake!

Idiot too

There's a difference between the government knowing who you are, and real time surveillance and tracking, where a person cannot move without swiping.

I watched the Weather Underground last week.

Agree or not with their policy of blowing up empty buildings to 'send a message', the authorities could not track them down for at least a decade, even tho they walked and operated in public.

Slipping underground for ANY reason, including to escape the Nazis, just got more difficult.

Maximum secrecy for them, maximum transparency for you.

(It should be noted, they went truly militant after Fred Hampton, a rousing orator, and his friend Mark Clark were murdered as they slept, as police broke in and started blazing. That's the official record.)

[Sboston]

..

Back in your canister bub!

ID CARD

THIS IS A GREAT IDEAL. MY BIRTH DATE, ADDRESS, ARE PUBLIC RECORD ANYWAY. I DON'T FEEL I WOULD BE GIVING UP ANYTHING THAT IS ALREADY AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC. WE NEED SOMETHING TO SECURE OUR PEOPLE. IF THIS WILL DO IT THAN I AM ALL FOR IT.

[pcLoadLetter]

This will not do anything to protect you

Not only will this not stop terrorism, it will centralize everything in a single place, so you are less safe.

Add that to the fact, that this is completely the opposite of the ideals that our country was founded on.

[Michael Grogan]

You are a moron..

...and with all the other morons like you, you will be first against the wall when the revolution comes!

id cards

Here in the uk we were/are due to have compulsory national id cards(sorry they won't be compulsory but you need them to get medical treatment and to get a job) the law introducing them was scrapped to make way for the election, but now bush's lapdog is back in power expect to see it re-introduced. I'm against them, mainly on the fact that i have to pay £80 (aprox $144) on something i have no choice over, and the reason that was given " to stop terrorists" well it didn't stop the madrid bombers the all carried id cards. Anyway i was so against having id cards i have changed my nationality and i'm no longer a uk national

Another link in the chains of control

Yes, it sounds like something from the Bible a little, but what it certainly is for is to control people. The government has found over the years little things to control the public. This is another attempt to peer in to peoples lives. When this signs in to law, I will officially become an outlaw.

Helps the security dramatically.

The reality it does quite a bit. Due to the lack of coordination it is very difficult for one to verify that one really has a legitimate. If somebody comes with an out of state license the local police aren't necessarily going to be able to verify the identity of someone in a timely fashion. If an officer doesn't have access to government database he just has to trust the would be fraudster unless one can recognize the ID as an obvious counterfeit. Making it more difficult to for illegal alien with ulterior motive to 'blend' makes it much more difficult for those on terror watch lists to evade capture.

[Michael Grogan]

You don't think these will be forged?

Wake the hell up and smell the roses! These ids will simply mean that once someone forges one they will avoid all further scrutiny. As soon as someone comes up with a new form of encryption it's beaten within weeks. What one man can create another can recreate, ie forge!

[ShadowGryphon]

In truth, the real ID act -Hinders- security dramatically,

"If somebody comes with an out of state license the local police aren't necessarily going to be able to verify the identity of someone in a timely fashion"
I have to correct you.
I am a Police Dispatcher and I am in a position to tell you, you are VERY wrong.
Through NCIC and other DB's I can search for the info on ANYONE with a license and it takes, normally, less than 1 minute for me to obtain the information and pass it along to the requesting officer. -any- license from -any- state (even canadian DL's).
So I am in a better position than most in this thread to know how dangerous this "real" id act is .

BTW a fraudulant DL -can- be recognized as such, if the examiner knows what to look for. Granted DL's vary state to state, making the examination and detection of a fake difficult, but there is a resource available to view examples of each
states 'license.

The sad fact is, these new ID's will -NOT- help security "dramatically", disagree? then tell me why we still have problems with spam, adware, spyware and other such intrusions, all inspite of our best efforts, I've said this before and I'll say it here again, the more advanced we become technologically, the greater the headaches we are forced to endure. and in this case, the headache is the loss of some of our freedoms. one freedom in specific: the right to come and go as we please unchallenged and unencumbered with needless electronic "dog" collars.


DON'T TREAD ON ME!

[Catgic]

Real ID 13:16-18

And Congress in league with the President causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a Real ID to be carried at all times in their right hip pocket, their purse or suspended from a lanyard around their neck:

And that no man or woman might buy or sell buy food, shelter, personal transportation, conduct financial transactions or travel or trek, save he or she that had the DHS approved Real ID, issued in accordance with the full faith and trust of the United States, bearing the government assigned SSN & Biometric-based personal number of his or her name.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the DHS certified number of a man or woman; the last three digits of whose number is an encrypted Six hundred threescore and six. ? Real ID 13:16-18 (The Catgic)

Absolutely needed!

Working in the construction field,i have seen how what you would call in-sourcing.We have inner-city kids and indian reservation with 20 % unemployment,yet we have a million mexicans swimming thr Rio grande every year!I'm to to the point where anything that will help curb these peoples freedom of movement is a plus!It is unfortunate it has to go this far,but no one is willing to control the borders!!!!!

Absolutely needed

id cards will not stop people entering the usa illegally or stop them from working, look at what has happend in western europe, the people entering illegally just side step the controls, and you get people working for cash in hand, the bosses like it because they can pay less then they would pay a legal person, plus if the person is not listed anywhere they don't have to pay taxes. id cards did not stop people entering western europe illegally, it just stop them from being visable

[topherobyrne]

absolutely neeed?....sigh

I work in the construction field as well, but it makes no sense to infringe the rights of LEGAL, law abiding citizens just to add more power to the government under the guise of "protecting us"...if this were really able to protect us, then why were terrorists able to get on a plane undetected? Because they made themselves that way, and did everything right.....THEN blew us up. Use your head. There is always a way around a system, and it will eventually be found. This is NOT the way to deal with border issues, or "extra protection".

[topherobyrne]

absolutely needed?....sigh

I work in the construction field as well, but it makes no sense to infringe the rights of LEGAL, law abiding citizens just to add more power to the government under the guise of "protecting us"...if this were really able to protect us, then why were terrorists able to get on a plane undetected? Because they made themselves that way, and did everything right.....THEN blew us up. Use your head. There is always a way around a system, and it will eventually be found. This is NOT the way to deal with border issues, or "extra protection".

[yellowjester]

we've got it backwards

We don't need a national ID we need to have every one else in the world carry an ID with radio frequency identification (RFID) chips. So we can monitor the rest of the worlds population. If they cross the borders illegally we could fry them up with our laser defense system. Yeah, thats the ticket.

[atamotua]

Best solution...

... You know, that is the best solution i've heard so far... money would be the only problem if the US would be to fund that project, but we can also force them to pay for their own gadgets...

[heystoopid]

Welcome to to the new Soviet State of America

In the new union of the united soviet states of america, soon the local police will be demanding "papers please" and shoot those who resist on the spot or send them to china lake for failing to be civil to the authorities. A true Democracy at work in the land of the free and the brave!

National ID

The question becomes: what are Americans going to do with this information? How much more will we take? The New World Order is here and now. Are we going to stand up and do something or continue to roll over. The once gradual usurpation of all we hold dear is not so gradual anymore. Where are the real freedom fighters in this country? They are too busy making that extra dollar to buy that upgraded TV, automobile or house. Freedom isn't as important as a new car is it????????????

We went wrong early . . .

At the end of the 18th century, we had some really good ideas about developing a new government by the people for the people, and so we recorded them in the Constitution and those important first ten amendments--the Bill of Rights. It certainly wasn't a bad effort--we're still a freer state in many ways than most others, and I still think the US is the best country in the world for me to live in. The ideas of representative democracy with checks and balances are the best system we're come up with so far in history.

But, the human desire for power seems to trump even the best decisions and the newest, most brilliant ideas of the time. Did we really take that long to start straying? Think about it for a while.

I'm not one to be a conspiracy theorist; generally, I find most laughable. However, whenever an election year comes around, or I see a issue like this come up, I can't help but have many of the following thoughts.

Political parties formed up pretty quickly after the Constitution was ratified. Like-minded individuals that think they know what's best for everyone else get together and start running for office together on the same platform. In a country where every man and woman is supposed to be considered equal, we sure let elitist classes form up pretty quickly. Because isn't that essentially what political parties are? A way to subvert the checks and balances put into the system by ensuring that one group can control multiple branches of the government at once? It often seems that way to me.

We tried to create our government system in such a way to prevent abuse of power, but it seems like politicians were very quick to find and exploit the loopholes. Let's see what's in the bag of tricks for our political and wealthy elites.

Having trouble getting enough in your party elected? Redraw the map.

Got unpopular legislation you need to pass? Tuck it in with another bill sure to pass.

1 vote not enough? Buy the loyalty of a politician.

And let's not forget how the mathematics of voting seem to help polarize us. How many of you have wanted to vote for third party candidates, but don't because you know it won't mean anything? How many of you have found one of the two leading candidates so personally repulsive that you felt to had to vote for the other big guy, just because you couldn't let him win?

Are we truly that divided, or does our political system serve to amplify it? And in a sense, doesn't this serve the status quo? What kind of real change can happen in a system that seems dominated by the infighting of two elitist political parties that don't want to let go of their socially engineered grip on our society?

And even now and then, I have this dark thought that the infighting is really mostly just for our benefit. Again, I'm not prone to conspiracy theories, but after watching politicians battle it out, I often get the creepy feeling that Republicans and Democrats like to play us against each other so we don't realize that our representative democracy has been degenerated into a form of socially engineered oligarchy.

Translation: Maybe we've been suckered into believing that everyone is still equal in this country, misdirected into focusing our attention on the "ideologically opposed" among us, and left with every loophole exploited so that we don't realize we're really ruled by a elitist class of political parties.

Hackers know the truth; people are often the weakest links in any security. Maybe our political system has been being hacked for the last 200 years, and we've simply been too stupid to realize it. Or maybe, with the road to hell being paved with good intentions, it has been destroyed by all those out there who decided for all of us that the ends justified the means, ignoring the fact that each time they whittled away a protection for "our own good," they were slowly destroying the system they sought to protect.

Then again, maybe I should take Asimov's advice, and not attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. And that stupidity would be our own collective stupidity in not thinking far enough ahead to see this coming. Short-sightedness does seem to be a fairly universal weakness, doesn't it?

I could probably go on, but it is late. In a sense, it seems like we never really had the promise of freedom and liberty that we are supposed to; it seems like the system never worked the way it was supposed to.

Somewhere along the line, we'll need to invent a better form of democracy, or maybe we'll eventually get a crack at improving the one we have. Until then, stupidity like this ID card will continue to be thrust upon us, because some of the freedom we thought we had was always a bit of an illusion.

There's More

I agree to your, very thought out reply to this story and the thoughts of the others, but we are in a real mess. Although I feel the US is the best place this far in history, and don't want to live any other place, for it's my home and I am proud to be called an American.
We as the people have let our goverment over take us in what I believe at one time was truly goverened by the people and for the people. It's like now a reversed roll.
We let our goverment spend great amounts of money on stupid stuff like how a dog can run on three legs when he loses one leg...millions and billions goes to stupid research..and then they all cry about the deficit. Paying for favors!
They have little fits where some one can't talk and call it a filabuster...I would have spanked my kids for acting so stupid...That's what I call acting like children and throughing fits!
We see people every day cutting the other down, on TV they used to never cut another product down but told how good there's was...Look at our president race this year....It was really bad...cut throat,really bad! And the media you used to could at least trust them to tell the truth, because they used to have standards.
The people, look at them "Where's the Standards?"
The Ten Commandments, they don't teach anything bad, decent rules for living...don't steal so on. But let's not let them be seen..it's better for our kids to grow up seeing things of sex and perversion...Then we ask where did we go wrong? Where is honesty? Why does he or she cheat on their spouse..or where did all the simple good things go? We can't call fore-fathers, fore-fathers any more because it's unfair to women-I guess, when in fact it is fore-fathers, not fore-women or fore-persons. I can even have a person of the same sex as me and call them husband or wife which ever I choose. And in some states I can even marry them, and get husband and wife rights. Somethings wrong there! I can watch all kinds of what I call cencered acts..but if I say anything I'm stepping on others rights.
We have gotten so far from what the fore-fathers stood for and help create in this great Nation-Some times I wonder what's comming next, but not wanting to know on the other hand. It's really sad. But alot of Americans are not worried about goverment rights or so on-their worried about feelin' good and money. And I never seen so many lazy young and some old people..they want a pay check but don't want any work.
Christians, I don't understand why so many are worried-I believe everything from time is setting up God's prophecy. We as Christians should be glad and happy to be headed home. We should always stand for what we believe in but we shouldn't be worried leave that to the sinners, have joy, peace, and faith for you know where your going.
You are thinking maybe, what's this all got to do with what I said or even this story...WE DID IT, by not taking action a long time ago and make our goverment be for us and not them. I vote every election, and I don't take anyone's word about a party-I check them out myself-though it's hard for you don't know for sure who is telling the truth..so I pray alot and my vote counts.
I don't often reply to these post it debates, for I don't like wasting my time but for some reason I felt a need on this one.Thank you for reading this, I hope I didn't afend anyone but this is how I feel and I stick to it..

GOV CORRUPTION

A 84 YEAR OLD MAN TOLD ME A STORY ABOUT A GROUP OF REPUBLICANS AFTER LOSING TO THE DEMOCRATS STARTED PLANNING TO SET UP A SYSTEM TO CONTROL THE GOV. AND IT LOOKS LIKE THEY DID IT THE RAPE OF THE U.S.A. SOMETHING THAT WILL TAKE DECADES TO REPAIR. THE STORY STARS BACK IN THE 30'S

[Sol999]

What They Deserve

The Amerikan Sheeple are getting the police state they want and richly deserve. Their government masters will spend another $82 billion to brand them like cattle but you can be sure the $82 billion is just a down payment. Typical Amerikans - they pay their government masters to enslave them.

[Sol999]

Dumb Amerikans

They think a government database will keep them safe! Idiots!!!

[Sol999]

A Boon for Identity Thieves

Our SSN (socialist slave number) has been the biggest enabler of identity thieves and in 2008 thanks to our government masters these thieves will get an even better identity theft enabler. Damn Amerikan sheeple never learn.

http://img.slate.msn.com/media/1/123125/2065969/2111765/2116520/050425_ARC_Skittles_ex.jpg

[bernadinegraham]

So Twure

So twue, so very very twue!!

[My-Self]

They that can give up essential liberty ...

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Q. What are you giving up ?

I keep hearing that the ID's mean giving up some liberty - what liberty are you giving up ? What is the difference between a police officer demanding to see your DL as a means of ID & demanding to see your Federal ID ?

Are you giving up something if the ID is used to prevent illegal aliens from getting state social security & other benefits (e.g. viting).

Are you giving something up, if checking the ID, prevents Usama Bin Laden from sitting next to you, on the plane?

Are you giving something up, if the ID is used to reduce identity theft?

Most of the information is already held on state & federal databases - they're just too ineficient to put together.

The only thing the ID will do is provide a consistant form of ID, when you are in public. Just like the DL, only better.

Same in the UK

We're facing a government who have a declared aim to introduce an ID card system in the UK too.

Here, it's often claimed to be to "protect us from terrorists and other BAD people". However, it's also been stated that you/we won't be required to carry it at all times but if challenged we'll have 7 days to produce it at a police station.....anyone else see the glaring flaw in that argument?

The same goes for any ID card - the black hats will find a way to fake it/avoid it, and it's only actually any good for tracking the _good_ people who might stray from the line the tiniest bit.

Also, if I understand correctly, the US proposal is to link it to the driving license...in which case, what about those who don't/can't drive?

If they can propose a system that will actually deliver on protecting the majority from the extreme actions of a tiny minority then I _might_ reconcider my objection at that time - but ID cards of any sort suggested to date are not it and should be campaigned against verhmently by everyone IMHO.

I certainly plan to join any "lawful/reasonable" civil disobediance necessary to undermine the implementation in the UK. When the law is an ass, only a bigger ass would respect it :-)

id cards uk pass commons

as 911 scheptics, we are also deeply concerned about the passing the house of commons. We're looking for people who want to help challenge this.

Check out our film on 911 called 'face the facts'available free for download on www.911truthbristol.com

and then let us know what you think

all the best

colin power

911truthbristol

[cyberblatt]

No right to call yourself United anymore!

This Bush is and his backer's are traitors who undermine anything a country is about. He is worst than Hitler so you better stop this freak before it is too late. He is selling you out for next to nothing. He controls the media and you get brainwashed like no one on this planet.
I just hope you folks notice that. Take back the white house and throw out the garbage before you get infested.

[Sol999]

LAST CHANCE TO STOP THIS!

It looks like it will take a miracle but please see this article and the link to how you can make one last attempt to stop this.

Last Chance to Stop National ID
by Rep. Ron Paul

http://www.antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=5887