Comments on: Apple fights RealNetworks' 'hacker tactics'

Updated iPods won't play songs from RealNetworks' temporarily Apple-friendly store.

iPod to go the way of the original Apple

Typical Apple idiocy. They never learn.

Make something new and snazzy, than lock it in to a proprietary format. Gee, I wander why their products suddenly loses market share within 3-5 years after competitors come to market with open standards.

[vanox]

Proprietary Formats?

Apple doesn't only use proprietary formats.

Here is a list of the audio formats supported: AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 (32 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible, AIFF, Apple Lossless and WAV

You can find it here: http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

[robertmorris2]

it's a matter of taste

this war of operating systems and their relevance to use
has gone on forever. there are choices that we all make in
usage. it is whatever your need is. each system is in itself
is proprietary, for the sake of sales , etc. most now are
internet based, that is, all information is available in all
formats from the web. while the iPod is now popular, I'm
sure by next year there will be many more competitors. it's
just the way the marketplace works. and, that is great.
because it forces companies to improve and invent.

iPod to go the way of the original Apple

Typical Apple idiocy. They never learn.

Make something new and snazzy, than lock it in to a proprietary format. Gee, I wander why their products suddenly loses market share within 3-5 years after competitors come to market with open standards.

[vanox]

Proprietary Formats?

Apple doesn't only use proprietary formats.

Here is a list of the audio formats supported: AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 (32 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible, AIFF, Apple Lossless and WAV

You can find it here: http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

[robertmorris2]

it's a matter of taste

this war of operating systems and their relevance to use
has gone on forever. there are choices that we all make in
usage. it is whatever your need is. each system is in itself
is proprietary, for the sake of sales , etc. most now are
internet based, that is, all information is available in all
formats from the web. while the iPod is now popular, I'm
sure by next year there will be many more competitors. it's
just the way the marketplace works. and, that is great.
because it forces companies to improve and invent.

This is just flabbergasting...

If Microsoft tried to pull this ********, they would be sued so fast that they wouldn't know what happened.

But NO, Apple is allowed to get away with this crap because their ******* user base is so blindly devoted they don't realize that they're being abused as customers.

[Below Meigh]

So explain why AAPL is worth more than MSFT!

Apple is protecting its liability to the vendors that contracted its music. Get real? Real has slammed everyone with lock-in contracts to use them EXCLUSIVELY.
It will go the way of Internet Explorer- people will get fed up with being told "our format is better or else".

You want a Mercedes? Get an Apple. You want a Dodge? Get a PC. But then, you likely steal the music and want to play it on the "very hip, with the incrowd" iPod....

[Jonathan]

Full of crap

Give it a rest. The reality is Apple isn't trying to own the market by giving their wares away for free, locking the market down, then making everything proprietary and lacking everyone into a proprietary system. AAC == MPEG4 = NOT A PROPRIETARY SYSTEM!
Users are choosing to give Apple their market share they aren't being goaded into it with marketing games. If Apple wants to keep a closed system that doesn't let anyone else play on their device that is their choice. The iPod is their baby. They can do whatever the heck they want with it. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Its what everyone else was ******** about when MS was on trial. The oh shut up. MS can do whatever they want with their software.
Now the shoes on the other foot and Apple is using it to kick MS/Dell/Rio/Etc in the ***. Not so much fun when the coin is flipped is it sucker?

Apple User Base

The Mac experience is by far a much better experience than any
M$/PC experience I have had. I switched just over a year ago
and WOULD NOT go back to a M$/PC. Unfortuneately I still have
to maintain 20+ M$/PC's in our office. But as one of them
needs to be replaced it will be with a Mac. They cost a little
more but ROI is better.

This is just flabbergasting...

If Microsoft tried to pull this ********, they would be sued so fast that they wouldn't know what happened.

But NO, Apple is allowed to get away with this crap because their ******* user base is so blindly devoted they don't realize that they're being abused as customers.

[Below Meigh]

So explain why AAPL is worth more than MSFT!

Apple is protecting its liability to the vendors that contracted its music. Get real? Real has slammed everyone with lock-in contracts to use them EXCLUSIVELY.
It will go the way of Internet Explorer- people will get fed up with being told "our format is better or else".

You want a Mercedes? Get an Apple. You want a Dodge? Get a PC. But then, you likely steal the music and want to play it on the "very hip, with the incrowd" iPod....

[Jonathan]

Full of crap

Give it a rest. The reality is Apple isn't trying to own the market by giving their wares away for free, locking the market down, then making everything proprietary and lacking everyone into a proprietary system. AAC == MPEG4 = NOT A PROPRIETARY SYSTEM!
Users are choosing to give Apple their market share they aren't being goaded into it with marketing games. If Apple wants to keep a closed system that doesn't let anyone else play on their device that is their choice. The iPod is their baby. They can do whatever the heck they want with it. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Its what everyone else was ******** about when MS was on trial. The oh shut up. MS can do whatever they want with their software.
Now the shoes on the other foot and Apple is using it to kick MS/Dell/Rio/Etc in the ***. Not so much fun when the coin is flipped is it sucker?

Apple User Base

The Mac experience is by far a much better experience than any
M$/PC experience I have had. I switched just over a year ago
and WOULD NOT go back to a M$/PC. Unfortuneately I still have
to maintain 20+ M$/PC's in our office. But as one of them
needs to be replaced it will be with a Mac. They cost a little
more but ROI is better.

[ajbright]

Which is why I won't buy a $250-$400 walkman

So let's see, for $20-$100 (depending on quality required), I can buy a device that will play music from any download store (including iTunes), or directly from CDs (the format music comes on in stores - for those that don't like to pay for music).

The only inconvience is having to swap out a CD every now and then, but it's a heck of lot easier to find the song(s) I want to listen to, rather than search through gigabytes of HD space.

A few CDR's will hold more than enough music, in fact I have trouble filling more than 2 or 3 with stuff I actually want to listen to.

Alternatively I can spend between $250 and $400 for a glorified walkman, and be limited to my exisiting CDs (probably not for long, as no doubt Apple will bar mp3s ripped from your own CD collection) or just one solitary download site.

hmm.. wonder which I'll choose.

[nmcphers]

Well...

I bet you were one of those people who stuck with casette tape when everyone was buying CD's. If a portable CD player works for you, go for it. The iPod is not being marketed to you. It's been marketed to people who want more than a CD player.
And no, Apple won't stop you from playing MP3 files. That would be SONY. Although now they are chaning their tunes. And that would be also be Microsoft, who tried to cripple MP3 on Windows in favor in WMP. So don't pretend every company doesn't look out for themself.

[ajbright]

Which is why I won't buy a $250-$400 walkman

So let's see, for $20-$100 (depending on quality required), I can buy a device that will play music from any download store (including iTunes), or directly from CDs (the format music comes on in stores - for those that don't like to pay for music).

The only inconvience is having to swap out a CD every now and then, but it's a heck of lot easier to find the song(s) I want to listen to, rather than search through gigabytes of HD space.

A few CDR's will hold more than enough music, in fact I have trouble filling more than 2 or 3 with stuff I actually want to listen to.

Alternatively I can spend between $250 and $400 for a glorified walkman, and be limited to my exisiting CDs (probably not for long, as no doubt Apple will bar mp3s ripped from your own CD collection) or just one solitary download site.

hmm.. wonder which I'll choose.

[nmcphers]

Well...

I bet you were one of those people who stuck with casette tape when everyone was buying CD's. If a portable CD player works for you, go for it. The iPod is not being marketed to you. It's been marketed to people who want more than a CD player.
And no, Apple won't stop you from playing MP3 files. That would be SONY. Although now they are chaning their tunes. And that would be also be Microsoft, who tried to cripple MP3 on Windows in favor in WMP. So don't pretend every company doesn't look out for themself.

[unknown unknown]

Consumer unfriendly...

That exactly what DRM is. Now Apple has created compatibility issue in effort to thwart Real that does nothing but frustrate consumers who just want to play their music. I honestly can't see what's so great about iTunes or the iPod. iTunes is fine for managing playlists and music if you have a small collection, but when you get a few thousand songs in their the flaws become quite obvious. Also I've found it no more intuitive and easy to use than WinAmp (WinAmp loads a lot quicker). The iPod isn't that great either, the touch sensitive ring that is suppose to be used navigate the menu make easy to over shoot the desired selection making the experience frustrating to say the least. Definitly not worth the trouble. Some my liken the PC to Dodge, but in my experiance the PC has been very reliable, and I don't have to pay extra for stylized bullsh*t.

[Jonathan]

And how much time have you spent with both?

Well considering it sounds like you've hardly used either iTunes nor the iPod you should take your own mini review with a grain of salt. I've got iTunes/WinAmp/WM all loaded on my laptop and time and again I go back to iTunes because it?s the most flexible, powerful, easy to use app out there. I've got a tad under 6,000 tracks on my 60GB iPod that I picked up about 2 months ago. My first iPod. The device is the best system on the market when it comes to navigation. Yes there are some critical features missing in the software but by and large it a rock solid device. The sensitive you are complaining about is what allows me to scream through #-f-m-z in a matter of seconds finding it way faster then most devices out there. Maybe if you didn't make a snap decision on the device and actually tried playing around with one for a bit you would get the hang of it and understand how powerful that synaptics wheel really is.
Again the iPod is far from perfect (I would love to be able to move tracks up, down, remove my playlist and be able to shuffle playlist not just songs or albums) but the solution is a whole lot better then most.

[mortis9]

don't like it, don't buy it

if you aren't please with either their software or their hardware, why are you bothering to post on here? this topic here is the frustration that iPod owners go through when looking to buy music online. What's the point of you complaining about something you don't have, don't want, doesn't affect you, and you probably can't even afford???

[unknown unknown]

Consumer unfriendly...

That exactly what DRM is. Now Apple has created compatibility issue in effort to thwart Real that does nothing but frustrate consumers who just want to play their music. I honestly can't see what's so great about iTunes or the iPod. iTunes is fine for managing playlists and music if you have a small collection, but when you get a few thousand songs in their the flaws become quite obvious. Also I've found it no more intuitive and easy to use than WinAmp (WinAmp loads a lot quicker). The iPod isn't that great either, the touch sensitive ring that is suppose to be used navigate the menu make easy to over shoot the desired selection making the experience frustrating to say the least. Definitly not worth the trouble. Some my liken the PC to Dodge, but in my experiance the PC has been very reliable, and I don't have to pay extra for stylized bullsh*t.

[Jonathan]

And how much time have you spent with both?

Well considering it sounds like you've hardly used either iTunes nor the iPod you should take your own mini review with a grain of salt. I've got iTunes/WinAmp/WM all loaded on my laptop and time and again I go back to iTunes because it?s the most flexible, powerful, easy to use app out there. I've got a tad under 6,000 tracks on my 60GB iPod that I picked up about 2 months ago. My first iPod. The device is the best system on the market when it comes to navigation. Yes there are some critical features missing in the software but by and large it a rock solid device. The sensitive you are complaining about is what allows me to scream through #-f-m-z in a matter of seconds finding it way faster then most devices out there. Maybe if you didn't make a snap decision on the device and actually tried playing around with one for a bit you would get the hang of it and understand how powerful that synaptics wheel really is.
Again the iPod is far from perfect (I would love to be able to move tracks up, down, remove my playlist and be able to shuffle playlist not just songs or albums) but the solution is a whole lot better then most.

[mortis9]

don't like it, don't buy it

if you aren't please with either their software or their hardware, why are you bothering to post on here? this topic here is the frustration that iPod owners go through when looking to buy music online. What's the point of you complaining about something you don't have, don't want, doesn't affect you, and you probably can't even afford???

[iKenny]

Apple's real goal

What most of you don't seem to understand is that Apple isn't in
any of these businesses for marketshare. They exist, as do all
companies, to make money. Both on the computer front and the
music player front, Apple sells what most view as the most
superior products. The Mac is, objectively speaking, far more
secure than a Windows computer and, in my experience, far less
crash-prone and easier to use. The iPod is repeatedly hailed as
the easiest to use, most stylish MP3 player available.
And how does Apple do this? They control all aspects of the
product. The iPod is no different from typical Apple style. The
Mac would not be as easy to use and secure as it is did Apple
not make both the OS and the hardware. The iPod is the
simplest MP3 player because Apple guarantees that it will work
with the software, by writing the software themselves.

Yes, perhaps the users of their products are "locked-in." But
perhaps that's the price you pay for superior quality and
reliability. If you're happy with slightly less, then by all means
don't buy an iPod or a Mac. But please don't whine and moan
about Apple and its tactics. They operate how they want, and if
you don't like it, don't buy from them, just like any other
company.

Apple's move against Real makes perfect sense and fits perfectly
with their business plan after this analysis I might point out.

[mortis9]

i completely agree

the prior comment put it all in the light. why complain? like all computer companies they're playing the game to make money. They control all aspects of their product to deliver their products in a more "controlled environment" and as such for what those products do, they're superior to others in the market place, currently.

What is really boils down to (as this article was aobut apple shutting out real) is that if you don't own an iPod, shut up, this doens't concern you. If you do, you knew prior to buying it there was only one source for online music. Nothings changed other than that now you're feeling taken advantage of.

Same arguement with their first Apple.

Read the first post. Your arguement is valid in that Apple IS trying to make money. But as my first post points out, they're going about it the wrong way. History has shown what happens to companies that lock in their customer base in proprietary formats that is slow to evolve. A hundred companies working on a shared format always beats one lone company working on a proprietary format.

Apple tried this with their PC's, Sun tried it with their workstations, and Palm's now facing reality. Haven't worked backed than, won't work now.

[iKenny]

Apple's real goal

What most of you don't seem to understand is that Apple isn't in
any of these businesses for marketshare. They exist, as do all
companies, to make money. Both on the computer front and the
music player front, Apple sells what most view as the most
superior products. The Mac is, objectively speaking, far more
secure than a Windows computer and, in my experience, far less
crash-prone and easier to use. The iPod is repeatedly hailed as
the easiest to use, most stylish MP3 player available.
And how does Apple do this? They control all aspects of the
product. The iPod is no different from typical Apple style. The
Mac would not be as easy to use and secure as it is did Apple
not make both the OS and the hardware. The iPod is the
simplest MP3 player because Apple guarantees that it will work
with the software, by writing the software themselves.

Yes, perhaps the users of their products are "locked-in." But
perhaps that's the price you pay for superior quality and
reliability. If you're happy with slightly less, then by all means
don't buy an iPod or a Mac. But please don't whine and moan
about Apple and its tactics. They operate how they want, and if
you don't like it, don't buy from them, just like any other
company.

Apple's move against Real makes perfect sense and fits perfectly
with their business plan after this analysis I might point out.

[mortis9]

i completely agree

the prior comment put it all in the light. why complain? like all computer companies they're playing the game to make money. They control all aspects of their product to deliver their products in a more "controlled environment" and as such for what those products do, they're superior to others in the market place, currently.

What is really boils down to (as this article was aobut apple shutting out real) is that if you don't own an iPod, shut up, this doens't concern you. If you do, you knew prior to buying it there was only one source for online music. Nothings changed other than that now you're feeling taken advantage of.

Same arguement with their first Apple.

Read the first post. Your arguement is valid in that Apple IS trying to make money. But as my first post points out, they're going about it the wrong way. History has shown what happens to companies that lock in their customer base in proprietary formats that is slow to evolve. A hundred companies working on a shared format always beats one lone company working on a proprietary format.

Apple tried this with their PC's, Sun tried it with their workstations, and Palm's now facing reality. Haven't worked backed than, won't work now.

[shadowself]

Not a big impact

The iPod photo has been out for quite a while. If I recall correctly
the last firmware update for the iPods from Apple was about a
month ago. NOW people are starting to react to this?

This would strongly imply that this is not really an issue with
users and is much more of a "water cooler" topic for those who
want to complain about something with no significant impact.

If there really are thousands or even hundreds -- or even
dozens -- of iPod users who have been affected by this why
have they not been screaming for the past month?

The silence is deafening.

[shadowself]

Not a big impact

The iPod photo has been out for quite a while. If I recall correctly
the last firmware update for the iPods from Apple was about a
month ago. NOW people are starting to react to this?

This would strongly imply that this is not really an issue with
users and is much more of a "water cooler" topic for those who
want to complain about something with no significant impact.

If there really are thousands or even hundreds -- or even
dozens -- of iPod users who have been affected by this why
have they not been screaming for the past month?

The silence is deafening.

People are surprisingly rich.

I go to the Chapters bookstore in toronto once to twice a week.
They started to sell ipod and ipod mini a month ago. Originally
they didn't put up the price of the regular ipod. Only showing
the price of the ipod mini.
I went to the store today. Surprisingly, they are showing boxes
of ipod U2 and ipod Photo instead of the mini. Pricing only the
Ipod Photo and ipod U2. Looks like people are damn rich here
in Toronto.

People are surprisingly rich.

I go to the Chapters bookstore in toronto once to twice a week.
They started to sell ipod and ipod mini a month ago. Originally
they didn't put up the price of the regular ipod. Only showing
the price of the ipod mini.
I went to the store today. Surprisingly, they are showing boxes
of ipod U2 and ipod Photo instead of the mini. Pricing only the
Ipod Photo and ipod U2. Looks like people are damn rich here
in Toronto.

[jbelkin]

Locked ... If You're a Moron

Every song from REAL that you can burn onto a CD from the Real store (and not every track can) can be loaded onto the ipod. On the ipod, you can even load it lossless!

EVERY song from itunes can be burned to a CD and loaded into EVERY Mp3 player.

So, it's locked in the exact same sense that a convertible is locked when its top is down - if you're a moron, it's locked. For the rst of us, it's a NO RADIO sign in the back window.

Why would you even shop at Real? Same selection - more complications - why bother?

[jbelkin]

Locked ... If You're a Moron

Every song from REAL that you can burn onto a CD from the Real store (and not every track can) can be loaded onto the ipod. On the ipod, you can even load it lossless!

EVERY song from itunes can be burned to a CD and loaded into EVERY Mp3 player.

So, it's locked in the exact same sense that a convertible is locked when its top is down - if you're a moron, it's locked. For the rst of us, it's a NO RADIO sign in the back window.

Why would you even shop at Real? Same selection - more complications - why bother?

[dejo]

You can only complain if...

The only people who have a right to complain about Apple's
move here are those that have purchased Harmony-protected
tunes from Real and have found out that they no longer play on
their iPod. (By the way, I support Apple's move here. It's their
DRM to use. They can do whatever they see fit with it.) Anybody
else who has not been directly affected by this needs to stop
their ********.

Oh, OK, only APPLE is allowed to be arrogant

"It's their DRM, and they can do what they want with it."

Once again, THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

Apple is pursuing a strategy that is totally counter to what they profess to believe in, which is open consumer standards. I reiterate what I said earlier: if ANY OTHER COMPANY tried to do this, they would be vilified in the press, but because it's Apple and Steve "Jesus Christ" Jobs, they get away with it, and they even have Apple devotees defending them here.

Yes, it's their DRM. YES, they can do what they want with it. Totally IRRELEVANT to the argument.

[dejo]

You can only complain if...

The only people who have a right to complain about Apple's
move here are those that have purchased Harmony-protected
tunes from Real and have found out that they no longer play on
their iPod. (By the way, I support Apple's move here. It's their
DRM to use. They can do whatever they see fit with it.) Anybody
else who has not been directly affected by this needs to stop
their ********.

Oh, OK, only APPLE is allowed to be arrogant

"It's their DRM, and they can do what they want with it."

Once again, THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

Apple is pursuing a strategy that is totally counter to what they profess to believe in, which is open consumer standards. I reiterate what I said earlier: if ANY OTHER COMPANY tried to do this, they would be vilified in the press, but because it's Apple and Steve "Jesus Christ" Jobs, they get away with it, and they even have Apple devotees defending them here.

Yes, it's their DRM. YES, they can do what they want with it. Totally IRRELEVANT to the argument.

[markdoiron]

Say It Slowly: M . . P . . 3

anyone who's supporting these proprietary standards is nuts. send them a message: we want out mp3's!!!

mark d.

[dejo]

Say it slowly: D . . R . . M

Unfortunately, if you want to get music online LEGALLY, you
cannot go with MP3, since it does not have any DRM included.
And the record labels are not about to support any non-DRMed
format, including MP3.

[markdoiron]

Say It Slowly: M . . P . . 3

anyone who's supporting these proprietary standards is nuts. send them a message: we want out mp3's!!!

mark d.

[dejo]

Say it slowly: D . . R . . M

Unfortunately, if you want to get music online LEGALLY, you
cannot go with MP3, since it does not have any DRM included.
And the record labels are not about to support any non-DRMed
format, including MP3.