Comments on: Mass deletion sparks LiveJournal revolt

Users rebel after Six Apart deletes 500 groups, including ones devoted to literature, abuse recovery and Harry Potter fan fiction.

[dearprudence31]

I found these on LJ, yet fandom needs to be deleted

I don;t post these to promote them, because it makes me want to vomit.

I want to know how these violent, hateful journals can remain, while journals that contained fiction about two homosexuals of consenting age had to go.

I found the following on LJ, which are much more disturbing than the fandom journals. Please bring this to light.

First KK and white nationalism
http://community.livejournal.com/folk_and_faith/profile
As an example I am not putting them all here. There were 10 results.

A journal for the Nzi part after looking for the interest anti-jew
http://community.livejournal.com/nazi_regime/
There was another result.

A REVOLTING anti women site. when typing in the search anti-women
http://community.livejournal.com/anti_womens/profile
there were 5 results

An anti alternate sexuality LJ after typing anti-lesbian.
http://community.livejournal.com/anti_alt_sexual/

A disturbing anti-gay community after typing anti-gay
http://community.livejournal.com/_anti_gay_/
There were five results

[ladydragon543]

I am so disgusted...

You know, the actual *users* and might I also point out *customers* of livejournal, have been waiting for a response about this matter since the early hours of the morning.

And we finally get one...kind of.

*** 6A/LJ. Seriously? You can give an interview to Cnet, but you can't even bother to let your own users know whats going on? We called. We e-mailed. We took over that news post about the moo cards. Seriously! from page 6 of the comments to page 100 (probably more now) is *full* of pissed of LJers who decided to say "Hey, guess what? Dedicated user who is no longer so dedicated. Money? For you? Um...NOPE."

Way to alienate us. Really.

Never shall we die. But you? You might, lj.

[nerami]

And so we hoist the colors

*points at the comments* LJ only allows 5001 comments on any one post.

Which means it's done there, at the page 100, and it's either going to the previous posts or waiting like nice little internet users until they update with their long lost explanatory statement *frowning slightly* oh how I wish to read that one...

[Hardrada]

LJ staff is volunteers

Who are very poor at enforcing the rules at all, filing tickets at this point is pretty useless I'm afraid.

But I did hear a paid staffer of LJ put a video on Youtube apologizing for what happened.

[feliusrex]

Abusive terms of service. Shun Live Journal.

Quoted below is a section of the Terms Of Service that you agree to (and you shouldn't for obvious reasons) should you want to be on LiveJournal. Personally I wouldn't even use their free service, little alone pay them money. But read for yourself:

XI TERMINATION

You agree that LiveJournal, in its sole discretion, may terminate your password, journal, or account, and remove and discard any content within the Service, for any reason, including and without limitation, the lack of use, or if LiveJournal believes that you have violated or acted inconsistently with the letter or spirit of the TOS. Any contracts, verbal or written or assumed, in conjunction with your deleted journal and all its parts, at LiveJournal's discretion, will be terminated as well. LiveJournal may also, in its sole discretion and at any time, discontinue providing the Service, or any part thereof, with or without notice. You agree that any termination of your access to the Service under any provision of this TOS may be effected without prior notice, and acknowledge and agree that LiveJournal may immediately deactivate or delete your LiveJournal journal and all related information and files. LiveJournal reserves the right to bar any further access to such files or the Service. You agree that LiveJournal shall not be liable to you or any third-party for any termination of your access to the Service. Paid accounts that are terminated will not be refunded.

[squishycat]

That's...problematic

The problem is that a lot of us have been members since before
that part of the ToS was instated, and we have a lot on livejournal -
friends, communities, connections - that is really very hard to
leave, or to move en mass to another similar provider (not least
because convincing everyone we're connected to at all to move to
the same site would be extremely difficult).
But they're sure as hell not getting any more of my money, either,
and I'm not going near any page that has ads.

[nicocoer]

The voice that Livejournal Built

I, and a lot of the livejournal users, are big proponents of free speech. In fact, that is why we chose to go to livejournal for our blogging needs. For as long as it has been around, Livejournal has allowed networking and communities spring up and flourish, with generally only harrassment issues causing deletions. Actually, Livejournal has allowed many people find their voice in a censored world.

With this being true, I was greatly offended by the mass deletions on Livejournal yesterday. While I understand that it is wise to delete communities encouraging pedophilia and other Illegal sexual activities, There is a vast difference between that and what happened the other day. In their rush, the Livejournal team indiscriminately deleted RPG players, Art comms, literary comms reading the novel Lolita, and even Pedophilia/incest survivor communities. Were they the government, this would be a case that would rock the country's legal system.

As it is, this is on an independant, for-profit site. Thus, only the voice that Livejournal originally granted us can save us all from irrational censorship.

I've been on livejournal for 5 or 6 years now. I've found that livejournal is a positive and flexible space, and it is not one that I will give up easily. I, and my fellow users, will fight back for the place we love until the last stand.

sincerely,

Livejournal user NicoCoer, aka Savannah Nicole Logsdon

[lilswtangel]

stupid mistake not everyone or anyone can make...

If they're going to apologize, at least have the decency to give a sincere apology.

Sorry, LJ|SixApart, but you have just lost yourself thousands of paying consumers.

Get this, renewed subscriptions? no thanks...not if I'm going to be at risk of deletion for writing about fanfictions on my fandom.

As for "WFI", you were the catalyst for LJ's "mistake" though I'm sure you had your good intentions.

[Astrophil]

The internet is not "civil"

and there are no "Civil rights" as such.

Never ever forget that portals such as yahoo, craigslist, livejournal and all the rest of them-- are not public common property, but are privately owned. If you want to homestead go for it, but remember the landlord can kick you off at any time and will be within his rights to do so.

If you want to talk about anything that the mainstream bunch might possibly find objectionable, protect yourself by keeping downloads of all your communications. On livejournal, the url is; http://www.livejournal.com/export_do.bml
you can download one month at a time, and I just took care of two comms and my own journal this evening.
I'll keep the data saved on CD's.

If you find yourselves censored, you will have to buy your own piece of land, so to speak; register a domain and put yourselves on a server that offers free speech guarantees. There are plenty of portal softwares available to upload and put to use.

No matter what the officials are trying to do-- thus far, the internet is still a do-it-yourself place.

[Hardrada]

I'm an LJ user who reported a bestiality comm years ago

At the time LJ staff only told me not to look if the detailed recounts and encouragement of animal rape offended me.
The community remained untouched and active.

LJ staff is notorious for only enforcing their own rules when they feel like it, I guess the threat of a lawsuit or negative press made them feel like it.

[ishobo-21778177163149405791139]

.

Animal rape? Maybe the animal consented. Seriously, what is wrong with bestiality? Animals do not have rights. We kill them everyday for food and their by-products. We use them for medical research.

[chuck_whealton]

At least they finally did the right thing

Well, maybe (hopefully) things have changed at Live Journal since you reported that trash several years back.

I think they did the right thing. It's their service and they're allowed to delete what they consider objectionable.

I'm sure there's plenty of other places people can go to post that type of garbage.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

[littlegirllover]

A Real, Live, Pedophile Comments

I'm no master of economy, but I'll try to be brief. My livejournal (littlegirllover) was among the deletions, of course.

I think I only want to comment that I am amused by all these "fandom folks," who, having been caught up in the net certainly intended for ones like me, but never, no, by no means, themselves, now scream "injustice!" from the mountaintops - and trail off, saying, "but yes, yes, yes, delete the others ones for sure, for sure."

"What we write has nothing to do with pedophilia at all, what we write is pure and good, and sound, and our right to write it ought be protected." (Or words, generally, to the same effect)

My point is more simple, beyond the hypocrisy of so many "poor fandom victims," and is really just this: if pedophilia and child molestation, and child rape, and child victimization is so ********* (pardon) important to everyone under the sun (apparently, yes?), then why such an equally hypocritical endeavoring to silence all discussion, all mention of it, outside of the profit making enterprises of news shows and the victims, industry?

Is it only important to us when we can shout from the mountaintops that it's not us?

Well, it is me, and it was me well before I heard the mournful cries of the fandom folks - and it will continue to be me, well into the future and all the way to the grave.

Until we "mainstream" the discussion, we will learn very little about it, but all sorts of organizations will continue to earn profits, tangible and intangible, from the way we do things now. Which, if one looks at the ever-growing lists of child sex offenders and victims alike, obviously, is not working.

Livejournal/SixApart says it is not a legal issue, and it that is true. SixApart's chairman and CEO says, "[o]ur decision here was not based on pure legal issues. It was based on what community we want to build and what we think is appropriate within that community and what's not."

My questions back to Mr. Berkowitz and to the activists at WFI, were I a responsible journalist, would be "Why don't you want to try and be a part of a solution, instead of propagating a problem? If it is so very important to you, then why don't you want to allow discussion of the issue, strivings for truths and paths? Should we always rely on an assumption that all pedophiles exist on the Internet only to congregate, prey on children, plan crimes and other nefarious activities? Should we seek out proof that is the case, before we sweep them and the issue out the door, leaving our stoop squeaky clean? What kind of 'appropriate community' is it you want to build? - the kind that spouts out one side of your mouth that nothing is more important than finding solutions to the problem of pedophilia, while using the other side of your mouth to silence any and all discussion and interaction, which could lead to the beginnings of those solutions?"

So anyway, yeah, there's my bit: the fandom freaks want a right to their freakiness and scream foul when assumptions come home to roost on their silly pages, while insisting in the same scream that other freaky pages are just too freaky, and not nearly as important as their fictions, to have a right to their discussions and interactions.

Last, because it is necessary, for I know how these things work, before one leaps to the assumptive conclusion that I am just another pedophile looking to congregate with other pedophiles for purely prurient purposes, I'd suggest the leaper have a visit to over 500 of my (now deleted) journal entries, more or less available here: http://www.ljfind.com/user/littlegirllover/

In those entries, one will find all the evidence they need to prove I'm a pedophile, yes, but unless one relies upon assumption, one will find not one scintilla of evidence that I ever endeavored to hurt anyone, or am a monster - much to the contrary.

Regards,

Mark (http://mark-ex-lgl.livejournal.com/)

[Christopher Hall]

How does that work?

I'm not being flippant. I'm having difficulty grasping the concept of simultaneously being a pedofile and not being a monster. I'll listen if you'd care to explain it to me.

[violet leaves]

This is what we fight against!

Here is a pedophile who wants us to think he is not a monster yet he advocates sex with children, lusts after children and masturbates looking at pictures of kids.

His orgasm(s) are more important than the child he is looking at and getting pleasure from. Modeling sites, child porn what ever pedophiles can masturbate to are out here on the internet.

Hiding from public, these pedophiles look for each other and share the links, pics and porn.

We are here. Everywhere you are pedophile.

Pedophiles all have one thing in common:
They are LIARS.
Manipulators and child lusters.
These things you can be certain of.

There is no "good pedophile".

Thanks for your time.
~violet
www.truthinpain.blogspot.com

[chuck_whealton]

Get real...

You wrote:

>In those entries, one will find all the
>evidence they need to prove I'm a
>pedophile, yes, but unless one relies
>upon assumption, one will find not one
>scintilla of evidence that I ever
>endeavored to hurt anyone, or am a
>monster

This is really absurd.

I'm convinced the Live Journal people did the right thing.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

[J. Brandon Loberg]

Kudos. Very well said.

Your comment is a refreshingly insightful contribution to the debate surrounding these issues. i wholeheartedly agree; the mainstream, by rejecting any discussion of paedophilia whatsoever, pushes the issue, and more importantly, sex offenders into the dark corners of society, which only makes matters worse...

[melanthe]

Fandom_counts membership = 24,546

If that amount of people's voices can be ignored, then 6A/LJ is not a company worthy of their business.

[Trystn]

Spread Em for Jay-eee-zus, or anytime Daddy or the Preacher wants some

Why are the xtians going after quote unquote "pedophiles?" It's another example of trying to draw attention away from themselves by pointing the finger at others.
Remember Susan Smith? The nice Baptist girl who drowned her kids in a car in NC and then blamed a non-existent "black man?" Well these females of WFI would like you to forget her, and forget that her father - then the #2 man in Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition - raped her regularly from the time she was 14 until a month before she murdered her children. One or more of them may have been by him.
So for this and other skeletons they'd like to cover up - going back to King James I's love for young boys to the present cases of sexual abuse by priests and ministers- they point the finger and scream. Of course, you notice that they make NO effort to clean up their own house ...

[Christopher Hall]

Why settle?

So you'd rather the Christians get away with hypocrisy and the pedofiles run free on the Internet and in the communities?

Why should we settle for either?

[chuck_whealton]

So what are you saying?

Are you saying that just because people can't save the world, they should do nothing?

I don't agree at all. What Live Journal did was a great start.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

[cookie_monster_001]

Oh shut up.

If you honestly believe that those idiots represent true Christians, you're as stupid as they are.
And seeing as your rationalization has NOTHING to do with what's being discussed, I can only assume that you're just using this as an opportunity to shove your own bias on people, just like the "xtians" you hate so much.

Besides, what does this even have to do with what's being discussed?

[enscorp]

For Trystn - A Typical Christian Basher

OK, So ALL Christians, Baptists, etc... are bad, evil hypocrites because SOME people who call themselves Chrisitans, are totally devoid of TRUE Christ-like living. Never-mind that none of us (humans are perfect).

It's called a Logical fallacy. It's a NON-VALID argument. It doesn't hold water. It is, by definition, a specious statement that doesn't even qualify as an argument. You need to develop some critical thinking skills BEFORE you go spouting off at the mouth, especially when you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

BTW - Your handle "Trystn" says it all about your level of intelligence and morality.

Come Lord Jesus. Come soon.

[acfernandez]

Convicted Stalker

I once was contacted by a convicted serial stalker through my LiveJournal account. He created a fictional account under the name HeatherS_1966 and friended me. He was an individual I knew in real life, but chose LiveJournal a a means to attempt to contact me in other ways. While Livejournal is a wonderful means for individuals to meet and continue to communicate with one another over space and time, it can also be used as a dangerous forum for those who choose to abuse the right to speak freely on it's site.

[euphoriia]

Fandom_Counts Membership at 27,083

Every time I refresh it, more and more keep adding on.

[tzantatzanta]

idiots. that's the only word that fits.

we keep forgetting this little thing called th first amendment.
people have the inherent right to write whatever they feel like
writing.

these are nothing more than hysterics from people who have no
better use of their time than attacking material that they deem
offensive. livejournal gave in to their pressures.

materials that speak of illegal activities are not illegal. it is like
saying that when i write the word "kaboom" an explosion occurs.

ideas are not real. no matter what a hysterical, right wing,
middle-american idiot says. personal morality is a moot point.
the world does not conform to any one person's sense of
decency. truth is not moral.

moreover, the protection of ideas from persecution is the law.

[Christopher Hall]

The First Amendment does not apply

The First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America states:

[i]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[/i]

This places an umbrella over your right to free speech, [b]as it could be harmed, diminished, or maligned by the government.[/b] Your First Amendment rights in regards to private corporations and/or publicly held entities simply do not apply.

[NoVista]

Catharsis

is an aspect of life that the Moral Minority never thought of.

On IRC, people used to argue about whether or not it was RL (Real Life) and there were many variations of users relating to online life and personas.

In classical theatre, it was deemed more important to view the violence of, say, Medea, and achieve catharsis -- rather than yield to the impulse to murder someone in RL.

Personally, I do not see the attraction of children as sex objects or even just as an erotic aesthetic. But if someone else does, and wants to think about that, or write about it, where is a RL victim? Only a legend in your own mind, for those who disapprove. Tsk.

As Mark Twain said, "Nothin' needs improving like other people's morals."

Just remember, no matter how high you are on the moral ground, there will be someone who disapproves of something YOU do.

Maybe you're one of those parents who hates pedophilia and pornography, yet enters the sub-teen daughter in a ~beauty contest~. Yeah. I think that is twisted but that's me.

Or maybe you think violent video games entice young people toward violence. And, at the same time, you're of the 28% per cent who approve of the war/occupation in Iraq. Where 64 US soldiers are currently charged with murder and several have already been convicted of the rape of a 14 year old girl. So in supporting the troops, you implicitly are supporting deviants?

I have a lovely Art Deco era book called "Exotic Ladies". Adult women in revealing, stylised costumes. I think it is very romantic, ethereal, and some would call it porn.

Well, like they say, one man's antique is another's junk.

I haven't seen LiveJournal, probably won't, but to someone who says, you have NO rights to what the site does, I say they have no right to take your money under false pretenses.

[littlegirllover]

I showed you the door, yes?

I'm not being flippant either, although, considering the directions to the open doors, which I provided in my original comment, if I was to be flippant, I would have said that you are being, at least, disingenuous.

But, I don't think that's the case. I think, rather, that you may seek a compact explanation of a more complex issue. I'm sorry, beyond stating a fact that a pedophile is not, necessarily, either a child molester or monster, I can't you provide that. I do not believe in monsters, although there are surely sociopaths, psychopaths, child molesters, child rapists, and child murderers, among others, yes.

However, what I have already graciously provided, remains to my knowledge available. Those links, and the writings to which they lead, will provide anyone with the inclination to back up their claims they care, with all the explanation they say they demand. Fact is, most don't want that fallacy shattered. They really don't. It's easier to just say they care, when they really could care less.

So yes, if you were not just being flippant, or disingenuous, then avail yourself at your leisure of the information I have already provided in the original comment. Thank you for asking, though, for that is far more than most ever bother to do.

Mark

[crazy_prog]

obsession

In your short comment you mentioned paedophile 6 times, masturbate/s, porn and lust/ers twice each and name checked orgasm and sex once each. Someone has an obsession!

[crazynexus]

unhelpful..

Now, that was an unhelpful comment. Instead of berrating people and saying they should die (I thought we should respect all life, or is it only life that YOU deem worthy of living?), how about understanding this persons' problem? Do I find the lusting after children down right creepy? You bet I do. Perhaps you should take a look at your own sexuality and think to times you may have had thoughts outside of societal norms. Similar lines of thinking here. Next time you comment, try to be constructive.

[J. Brandon Loberg]

Evil to he who thinks evil...

Those whose comfort is apparently too fragile for them to consider allowing others the liberty of expression should not be running online blog communities in the first place--especially after the laudable decision of 1996 (mentioned in the article) exempting online forum operators from liability for users' posts. Usually, companies self-censor (to a greater extent that the law requires) out of fear of legal ramifications, but in this case, Six Apart chose to deny people the right of free expression for no better reason than gated housing tracts dictate what colour one can paint their house. It has everything to do with LiveJournal's 'image', and the propensity of companies like Six Apart to favour only superficial, ineffectual content, because if people don't react strongly to what they read, they won't form opinions about the company, especially negative ones.

i'm terribly sick of these cop-out apologists for blatant censorship arguing that it's "for the children." Rubbish. The same excuse has been repeated ad-nauseum for years, and it remains merely a convenient way to displace one's opinion. To my knowledge, no children have ever been hurt because someone wrote a bit of queer erotica, or wrote sexual parodies of Harry Potter. Someone had some fun, that's all. Some harmless fun. But that's not the point. Even if the f-ing KKK operated a LiveJournal group filled with ignorant racist rants, or NAMBLA began a forum on the topic of lowering age-of-consent laws, i would advocate just as strongly for their right to do so, despite my vitriolic opposition to the causes used in both examples.

[nothingavailable]

and to everyone else.

If expression ventures into graphic descriptions of rape, brutalization, torture etc of children then it has ventured into the kill zone.

I completely agree on the harmless fun and fantasy writing, but it takes a brain and some common sense to sort out the legit from the wacko. All Six Apart did was run a word search and lock out accounts. No common sense employed.

[reggy6654]

Industy wants to keep indentured servitude

Industy wants to keep control of the Green Card.

Industry has come out against the current immigration bill, because this bill takes away the Green Card whip that industry has wielded, for decades,like a sword of damacles on their immigrant employees.

Currently an employer must start and complete the Green Card application for an employee wanting to stay in the United States. If the employee changed jobs before completion, the employee would risk losing the green card.

The Immigration reform bill would put control of the Green Card application in the hands of the people, and award green cards on the basis of merit (not employer loyalty). Merit such as learning English, learning a skill... things that almost all U.S. citizens agree an immigrant should possess.

Industry is very afraid of the current bill, this bill would remove the whip that industry has wielded for years against an employee changing jobs. That inability to strike, walk-off-the-job, change-jobs, look for a better job, is what makes foreign labor so attractive to industry in the United States.

I urge everyone to write their senators and tell them NOT allow any amendment that puts the shackles back on people immigrating to this country. People should be free to choose their employer, and not be indentured to their employer in order to become citizens. There are ammendments being proposed by a group of SPECIAL-INTEREST only senators, that would keep the shackles on.

I urge you to write you Senator (or future senator if you are working on become a citizen) and tell them that you oppose any such ammendment. Keep control of your future here, and help others to keep control over theirs.

[siouxmoux]

sexually explicit, about characters Harry Potter

"pornish_pixies" focused on fan-written fiction, frequently sexually explicit, about characters in the Harry Potter novels.

Now This is Just Plain Sick. I have to say I am glad LiveJournal has decided to pulled the plugged on these accounts.

[rbsz]

Learn how to write, please.

pornish_pixies, a fiction and art community for adults, is home to some of the highest quality writing I have ever read. If you ever feel like improving the quality of your own writing, you might go take a look. The community has been rightfully reinstated, and it looks like you could use the help.