Comments on: Hurricane cleanup could take months, years

Katrina left a tangled mess, but human behavior has contributed to the problem. Engineering experts give their take.

teach bush

This should teach bush not to
ignore Kyoto.
otherwise i enjoy flying americans.

Not related to GW

Meteorologists are almost unanimous that Katrina was not worsened by global warming. (NOTE - I am not a GW denier. I'm just a GW-is-responsible-for-all-bad-weather denier).

teach bush

This should teach bush not to
ignore Kyoto.
otherwise i enjoy flying americans.

Not related to GW

Meteorologists are almost unanimous that Katrina was not worsened by global warming. (NOTE - I am not a GW denier. I'm just a GW-is-responsible-for-all-bad-weather denier).

[heystoopid]

As always!

As always, the people pay for the obsequient politician, who promises much, delivers little and pockets the cash difference! Now, we will be able to listen, to a new level of political promises and rhetoric, that will make a cat 5, seem like a light breeze!

[heystoopid]

As always!

As always, the people pay for the obsequient politician, who promises much, delivers little and pockets the cash difference! Now, we will be able to listen, to a new level of political promises and rhetoric, that will make a cat 5, seem like a light breeze!

[ballssalty]

It's comments like the first two...

That are the reason the left in the USA are losing enormously in politics.

How on earth can you actually blaim Bush for hurricane Katrina? Please detail your response with actual facts please.

Explain how he forced nature to create the hurricane and then forced it into the path it took. Also explain how he ordered people to begin looting and the order of weakening the levees.

Thank you.

[E B]

Don't bother us with FACTS, we want to blame Bush!

And while you're at it, explain how ratifying the Kyoto treaty would have been enough to prevent all of this.

Idiots.

Can't stop a hurricane, but you can try to prepare

http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/08/31/disaster_preparation/print.html

Excerpts:
"A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken."

"In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late."

[alancats]

Actually....

Obviously, President Bush can't be blamed for a natural catastrophe like a hurricane. He can, however, be blamed for cutting down Louisiana's request earlier this year for funding to shore up and expand the levee system protecting New Orleans. Hindsight may be 20/20, but there were PLENTY of warnings from people all over the region that this disaster was ripe for the happening. Check out the articles.

"Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly denied full funding for hurricane preparation and flood control."

"As recently as this summer, Louisiana pleaded for federal help to protect the state's rapidly eroding coastline -- a key natural defense against floods and major storms like Hurricane Katrina -- but the state was rebuffed by an administration and a Congress bent on budget-cutting and reluctant to pay for expensive preventative measures, according to congressional staff and budget-watchers."

Congress and the President both deserve plenty of blame.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/chitribts/20050901/ts_chicagotrib/floodcontrolfundsshortofrequests

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/09/01/us_earlier_rebuffed_louisiana_on_aid/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+National+News

[Mydrrin]

bush incompetence

It's not so much of Bush directing a hurricane. It is his inability
to do anything until things reach a crisis that should be a cause
for concern for everybody. Then Bush is decisive and gets things
done, but with a little planning and preperation things could
have been dealt with in a much better fashion.

All levels of this government "of the people, for the people" from
Bush to the govenor to the mayor should all be harshly criticized
for this boondoggle of relief operations.

- the government knew of the possible destruction and the area
that this would hit, four or five days ahead of time. Leaving lots
of time to get water, emergency food supplies, power generators
to the area, things needed for the relief efforts. Early callup and
station of national guard units could have been done.

- that people have no food or water available to them in this
time of crisis should be criminal incompetence.

- National Guard should have stations where people can pick up
food and water, and should be maintaining security.

- police, firefighters, and emergency workers should be helping
people with rescue, evacuation, and emergency services. People
should be getting information through emergency radio service.

- forced evacuation, there is at worst 150,000 people in New
Orleans, should take 3-4 days at worst with bus convoys.

That things have devolved to where they are now with armored
personel carriers, shoot to kill policies, 10,000 guardsmen, and
still no place for the people trapped in New Orleans to get food
and water, should concern everyone to the level of competence
of the elected officials.

[heystoopid]

Research, research, research!

I suggest you read, the annual reports from "Corps of Engineering", an organisation, tasked with the flood control of the entire Missippi River Basin, as a large amount of funding from '03 onwards was deliberately cut and diverted to support Homeland Security, and other overseas US military adventures. Me, If I was the State Governor, I would declare disaster Marshal Law, commandeer/co-opt all communication devices(well those mobile self powewred tv reporter vans with high satellite communications gear would make excellent temporary C and C centres to co-ordinate all relief efforts, something that news media is at great pains at pointing out, as all current government standard com networks are down(no phones/no power to Law enforcement Radio base stations, no fuel for generators etc) As in all disasters, it is a pointless excercise in futility to have stockpiles of relief supplies, being distributed with out adequate controls! This is also not helped by the fact that >60% of Loiusiana's national guard's disaster relief equipment is on permanent duty in IRAQ(generators/personnel/transport vehicles etc) Ah we live in interesting times, we can be open minded or closed minded. the choice is always ours!

Blame should be on GW and his slow reaction

AP Report:
The White House on Thursday made available top Corps officials to assure reporters that cuts to the agency's budget did not cause the Katrina disaster. Even though the administration has chronically cut back on the Corps' own requests for funding ? including two key New Orleans-area projects ? White House officials trumpeted the administration's support for the Corps.

"Flood control has been a priority of this administration from Day One," White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said.

But he added: "This is not a time for finger-pointing or playing politics."

In comments on Thursday, President Bush said, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."

But Louisiana State University engineer Joseph Suhayda and others have warned for years that defenses could fail. In 2002, the New Orleans Times-Picayune published a five-part series on "The Big One," examining what might happen if they did.



So for those who don't think he's partially to blame, then gain some knowledge on the cuts he made for levee protection in New Orleans. Also read the link that our levee protection has been inadequate and known for years

http://news.com.com/Experts+New+Orleans+disaster+was+predicted/2100-1008_3-5846233.html?tag=st_lh

[ballssalty]

It's comments like the first two...

That are the reason the left in the USA are losing enormously in politics.

How on earth can you actually blaim Bush for hurricane Katrina? Please detail your response with actual facts please.

Explain how he forced nature to create the hurricane and then forced it into the path it took. Also explain how he ordered people to begin looting and the order of weakening the levees.

Thank you.

[E B]

Don't bother us with FACTS, we want to blame Bush!

And while you're at it, explain how ratifying the Kyoto treaty would have been enough to prevent all of this.

Idiots.

Can't stop a hurricane, but you can try to prepare

http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/08/31/disaster_preparation/print.html

Excerpts:
"A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken."

"In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late."

[alancats]

Actually....

Obviously, President Bush can't be blamed for a natural catastrophe like a hurricane. He can, however, be blamed for cutting down Louisiana's request earlier this year for funding to shore up and expand the levee system protecting New Orleans. Hindsight may be 20/20, but there were PLENTY of warnings from people all over the region that this disaster was ripe for the happening. Check out the articles.

"Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly denied full funding for hurricane preparation and flood control."

"As recently as this summer, Louisiana pleaded for federal help to protect the state's rapidly eroding coastline -- a key natural defense against floods and major storms like Hurricane Katrina -- but the state was rebuffed by an administration and a Congress bent on budget-cutting and reluctant to pay for expensive preventative measures, according to congressional staff and budget-watchers."

Congress and the President both deserve plenty of blame.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/chitribts/20050901/ts_chicagotrib/floodcontrolfundsshortofrequests

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/09/01/us_earlier_rebuffed_louisiana_on_aid/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+National+News

[Mydrrin]

bush incompetence

It's not so much of Bush directing a hurricane. It is his inability
to do anything until things reach a crisis that should be a cause
for concern for everybody. Then Bush is decisive and gets things
done, but with a little planning and preperation things could
have been dealt with in a much better fashion.

All levels of this government "of the people, for the people" from
Bush to the govenor to the mayor should all be harshly criticized
for this boondoggle of relief operations.

- the government knew of the possible destruction and the area
that this would hit, four or five days ahead of time. Leaving lots
of time to get water, emergency food supplies, power generators
to the area, things needed for the relief efforts. Early callup and
station of national guard units could have been done.

- that people have no food or water available to them in this
time of crisis should be criminal incompetence.

- National Guard should have stations where people can pick up
food and water, and should be maintaining security.

- police, firefighters, and emergency workers should be helping
people with rescue, evacuation, and emergency services. People
should be getting information through emergency radio service.

- forced evacuation, there is at worst 150,000 people in New
Orleans, should take 3-4 days at worst with bus convoys.

That things have devolved to where they are now with armored
personel carriers, shoot to kill policies, 10,000 guardsmen, and
still no place for the people trapped in New Orleans to get food
and water, should concern everyone to the level of competence
of the elected officials.

[heystoopid]

Research, research, research!

I suggest you read, the annual reports from "Corps of Engineering", an organisation, tasked with the flood control of the entire Missippi River Basin, as a large amount of funding from '03 onwards was deliberately cut and diverted to support Homeland Security, and other overseas US military adventures. Me, If I was the State Governor, I would declare disaster Marshal Law, commandeer/co-opt all communication devices(well those mobile self powewred tv reporter vans with high satellite communications gear would make excellent temporary C and C centres to co-ordinate all relief efforts, something that news media is at great pains at pointing out, as all current government standard com networks are down(no phones/no power to Law enforcement Radio base stations, no fuel for generators etc) As in all disasters, it is a pointless excercise in futility to have stockpiles of relief supplies, being distributed with out adequate controls! This is also not helped by the fact that >60% of Loiusiana's national guard's disaster relief equipment is on permanent duty in IRAQ(generators/personnel/transport vehicles etc) Ah we live in interesting times, we can be open minded or closed minded. the choice is always ours!

Blame should be on GW and his slow reaction

AP Report:
The White House on Thursday made available top Corps officials to assure reporters that cuts to the agency's budget did not cause the Katrina disaster. Even though the administration has chronically cut back on the Corps' own requests for funding ? including two key New Orleans-area projects ? White House officials trumpeted the administration's support for the Corps.

"Flood control has been a priority of this administration from Day One," White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said.

But he added: "This is not a time for finger-pointing or playing politics."

In comments on Thursday, President Bush said, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."

But Louisiana State University engineer Joseph Suhayda and others have warned for years that defenses could fail. In 2002, the New Orleans Times-Picayune published a five-part series on "The Big One," examining what might happen if they did.



So for those who don't think he's partially to blame, then gain some knowledge on the cuts he made for levee protection in New Orleans. Also read the link that our levee protection has been inadequate and known for years

http://news.com.com/Experts+New+Orleans+disaster+was+predicted/2100-1008_3-5846233.html?tag=st_lh

Politicians only so what the populist wants ...

You can blame Bush all you want; in fact I will agree with you on Bushes environmental policy. But the fact of the matter is it?s the people to blame because in the end politicians do the will of the people. Sure you have your lobbies for both sides of the environment and they have their respective politicians in their pockets; but when it comes down to it every one has known for years that something like this would happen and when it does we look to the politicians and say why didn?t you do anything? The reason they did not do anything is because you did not want them to; if everyone wanted something to be done then on election day we would have voted for the Green Peace man/women running for congress president what have you and they would have made it first priority to rebuild the barrier islands and fix the flow of the rivers so that natural protections would be in place for a disaster like this. But instead we focus more on trivial issues and would rather spend our tax dollars on something that gives us instant gratification and leave the big issues for another day / generation. Well now we are faced with the big issues; we will arrogantly rebuild and not focus on the issues that got us here; we will have another devastating disaster and we will say the same things like why didn?t anyone do something to prevent this from happening. In the end we have no one to blame but ourselves and maybe just maybe the people will look and say we need to fix the environment and maybe they will look at their politicians and say if your not going to then on election day I am going to elect someone that will.

[mtw41]

mislead

When it comes down to it we elect republicans because they help big business and in doing so help the economy in some small way. Someday we will figure out that although this approach employees more people it does so at a cost. The cost is a lower standard of living for the masses (middle class) and more millionaires! I guess that's the American way but hopefully someday we will all realize that taking care of mother earth and our fellow man is a lot more important than seeing how much excessive wealth we can accumulate. In my way of seeing things we need to work on being better people and dispense with the republican paranoia that somebody is freeloading off the government. I'd rather see somebody collecting 15,000 a year on welfare than a company like Enron sucking massive wealth out of the whole US! It is correct to say that we the people are to blame but we have also been mislead by politicians like Bush that we do not have problems like global warming and weak levy systems in New Orleans!

[Earl Benser]

Had the Green Peace candidates been elected...

... they would have had lofty goals, but the national politicians
would have eaten them for lunch. Like Jimmy Carter found out,
nice guys are losers in politics - maybe you can get the votes from
an enamored populace - but unless you know where a lot of
skeletons are buried, Congress and the rest of the bureaucracy will
pay you no attention.

Dreams are nice, but the real world makes you wake up.

Politicians only so what the populist wants ...

You can blame Bush all you want; in fact I will agree with you on Bushes environmental policy. But the fact of the matter is it?s the people to blame because in the end politicians do the will of the people. Sure you have your lobbies for both sides of the environment and they have their respective politicians in their pockets; but when it comes down to it every one has known for years that something like this would happen and when it does we look to the politicians and say why didn?t you do anything? The reason they did not do anything is because you did not want them to; if everyone wanted something to be done then on election day we would have voted for the Green Peace man/women running for congress president what have you and they would have made it first priority to rebuild the barrier islands and fix the flow of the rivers so that natural protections would be in place for a disaster like this. But instead we focus more on trivial issues and would rather spend our tax dollars on something that gives us instant gratification and leave the big issues for another day / generation. Well now we are faced with the big issues; we will arrogantly rebuild and not focus on the issues that got us here; we will have another devastating disaster and we will say the same things like why didn?t anyone do something to prevent this from happening. In the end we have no one to blame but ourselves and maybe just maybe the people will look and say we need to fix the environment and maybe they will look at their politicians and say if your not going to then on election day I am going to elect someone that will.

[mtw41]

mislead

When it comes down to it we elect republicans because they help big business and in doing so help the economy in some small way. Someday we will figure out that although this approach employees more people it does so at a cost. The cost is a lower standard of living for the masses (middle class) and more millionaires! I guess that's the American way but hopefully someday we will all realize that taking care of mother earth and our fellow man is a lot more important than seeing how much excessive wealth we can accumulate. In my way of seeing things we need to work on being better people and dispense with the republican paranoia that somebody is freeloading off the government. I'd rather see somebody collecting 15,000 a year on welfare than a company like Enron sucking massive wealth out of the whole US! It is correct to say that we the people are to blame but we have also been mislead by politicians like Bush that we do not have problems like global warming and weak levy systems in New Orleans!

[Earl Benser]

Had the Green Peace candidates been elected...

... they would have had lofty goals, but the national politicians
would have eaten them for lunch. Like Jimmy Carter found out,
nice guys are losers in politics - maybe you can get the votes from
an enamored populace - but unless you know where a lot of
skeletons are buried, Congress and the rest of the bureaucracy will
pay you no attention.

Dreams are nice, but the real world makes you wake up.

katrinastan

Bush cut funding for those levee restoration projects. The national guard? Fighting man-made disasters in Iraq

Congress

Bush only can do as much as Congress lets him,so just blaming Bush is just Plane Stupid. This would have happened even if we went along with that stupid Kyoto Treaty. No I didn't vote for Bush.

[John Kuzak]

man-made disasters

http://www.analogstereo.com/alfa_romeo_147_owners_manual.htm

katrinastan

Bush cut funding for those levee restoration projects. The national guard? Fighting man-made disasters in Iraq

Congress

Bush only can do as much as Congress lets him,so just blaming Bush is just Plane Stupid. This would have happened even if we went along with that stupid Kyoto Treaty. No I didn't vote for Bush.

[John Kuzak]

man-made disasters

http://www.analogstereo.com/alfa_romeo_147_owners_manual.htm

Tsunami USA

The tsunami that hit in December and Hurricane Katrina seem to have alot in common. However, I do not see the rest of the world showing the same out pouring of concern as they did then. You tend to know who your friends are not when they are asking you to help them but when you need help yourself.

No tsunami

I see some people, including Politicians, relating this tragedy to The Tsunami and Hiroshima. This really bothers me. Not to diminish what has happened in the south but it is nowhere close to either of the mentioned events. In both instances, tens of thousands of people died with little or no warning. The tsunami killed around 180,000 people and 66,000 people died at Hiroshima not including the other 100,000 that were exposed to radiation poisoning.

Tsunami USA

The tsunami that hit in December and Hurricane Katrina seem to have alot in common. However, I do not see the rest of the world showing the same out pouring of concern as they did then. You tend to know who your friends are not when they are asking you to help them but when you need help yourself.

No tsunami

I see some people, including Politicians, relating this tragedy to The Tsunami and Hiroshima. This really bothers me. Not to diminish what has happened in the south but it is nowhere close to either of the mentioned events. In both instances, tens of thousands of people died with little or no warning. The tsunami killed around 180,000 people and 66,000 people died at Hiroshima not including the other 100,000 that were exposed to radiation poisoning.

[Earl Benser]

Fogbound forecast...

... by people who have no idea of the actual extent of damage, or
the actual capabilities for recovery. And Katrina wasn't the last of
the Gulf hurricanes to hit New Orleans. From what Katrina did to
the delta south of New Orleans, the next 'katrina' will eliminate the
city. There will be nothing left worth recovering.

[Earl Benser]

Fogbound forecast...

... by people who have no idea of the actual extent of damage, or
the actual capabilities for recovery. And Katrina wasn't the last of
the Gulf hurricanes to hit New Orleans. From what Katrina did to
the delta south of New Orleans, the next 'katrina' will eliminate the
city. There will be nothing left worth recovering.

[startiger]

Disaster waiting to happen

I don't mean to take anything away form the seriousness of what has happened, but why is anyone suprised?

Neworleans is a city on a coast thatis know for huricans and bad weather build BELOW SEA LEVEL. The whole reason the city exists at all is because it is surrounded by levees. I'm suprised this hasn't happened before.

Same thing with building in a known flood plane. As more and more people are trying to move into a space that they really shouldn't be to begine with, why are they supprised when something happens?

Agreed

I don?t mean to diminish the tragic situation that affected thousands of peoples lives, but I would be willing to bet that 80~90 percent of all the deaths were preventable. Most natural disasters have little or no warning (earthquake, tsunami, tornado, etc?), but a hurricane? Come on, we have ?days? of warning.

It?s the attitude of (old man voice) ?I?ve lived here for 40 years though lots a hurricanes and I aint gonna move for this hurricane?, that I believe contributed to a large number of the deaths. If everyone had evacuated, the homes and businesses would still be destroyed but at least they would be ALIVE. Homes and businesses can be rebuilt, people can?t.

It just goes with the territory. If you want to build your home on the coast with a beautiful view, fine, but be prepared to deal with the possible consequences and HEED any warnings. And choosing to live below sea level right next to the sea, well, that would also have its ?OBVIOUS? consequences.

It?s like people I know who live in a double-wide mobile home with an indoor fireplace.

They are just tempting fate!!!

reality check

The government as much as I hate to say it should move all the destroyed cities and town to be rebuilt further inland to minimize both loss of life and property. Then convert the property to public use or agriculture.

Living up north on the banks of the Mississippi we have seen it done here successfully.

[John Kuzak]

surrounded by levees

http://www.analogstereo.com/alfa_romeo_145_owners_manual.htm

[startiger]

Disaster waiting to happen

I don't mean to take anything away form the seriousness of what has happened, but why is anyone suprised?

Neworleans is a city on a coast thatis know for huricans and bad weather build BELOW SEA LEVEL. The whole reason the city exists at all is because it is surrounded by levees. I'm suprised this hasn't happened before.

Same thing with building in a known flood plane. As more and more people are trying to move into a space that they really shouldn't be to begine with, why are they supprised when something happens?

Agreed

I don?t mean to diminish the tragic situation that affected thousands of peoples lives, but I would be willing to bet that 80~90 percent of all the deaths were preventable. Most natural disasters have little or no warning (earthquake, tsunami, tornado, etc?), but a hurricane? Come on, we have ?days? of warning.

It?s the attitude of (old man voice) ?I?ve lived here for 40 years though lots a hurricanes and I aint gonna move for this hurricane?, that I believe contributed to a large number of the deaths. If everyone had evacuated, the homes and businesses would still be destroyed but at least they would be ALIVE. Homes and businesses can be rebuilt, people can?t.

It just goes with the territory. If you want to build your home on the coast with a beautiful view, fine, but be prepared to deal with the possible consequences and HEED any warnings. And choosing to live below sea level right next to the sea, well, that would also have its ?OBVIOUS? consequences.

It?s like people I know who live in a double-wide mobile home with an indoor fireplace.

They are just tempting fate!!!

reality check

The government as much as I hate to say it should move all the destroyed cities and town to be rebuilt further inland to minimize both loss of life and property. Then convert the property to public use or agriculture.

Living up north on the banks of the Mississippi we have seen it done here successfully.

[John Kuzak]

surrounded by levees

http://www.analogstereo.com/alfa_romeo_145_owners_manual.htm

[aabcdefghij987654321]

Bring our people home.

Dear Citizen:

Our country is in need.

Our people are suffering.

Our soldiers should be here, helping Americans in this disaster to survive,

not overseas helping Iraquis to achieve democracy.

Bring our soldiers home, now.

[aabcdefghij987654321]

Bring our people home.

Dear Citizen:

Our country is in need.

Our people are suffering.

Our soldiers should be here, helping Americans in this disaster to survive,

not overseas helping Iraquis to achieve democracy.

Bring our soldiers home, now.

jobs

This might sound selfish, but since I'm drawing unemplyment insurance, i was wondering if there might be a paying job down in the hurricane ridden area? Please send email thanks

[Christopher Hall]

No shortage of those

Well, if you have any manual labor-related skills, head on down to the area. If you can swing a hammer, they're going to need people like you for years to come.

They can use the help, if you're willing to give it.

jobs

This might sound selfish, but since I'm drawing unemplyment insurance, i was wondering if there might be a paying job down in the hurricane ridden area? Please send email thanks

[Christopher Hall]

No shortage of those

Well, if you have any manual labor-related skills, head on down to the area. If you can swing a hammer, they're going to need people like you for years to come.

They can use the help, if you're willing to give it.