Version: 2008

Comments on: FAQ: Vista's strong, new antipiracy protections

Microsoft is working closely with studios in ways that could affect your home entertainment system. Here's what you need to know.

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Yeah, I want to give up my TV that works, for a PC? No way
by educateme August 30, 2005 4:52 AM PDT
When was the last time you wanted to sit in front of your PC and
answer DRM questions and wade thru security features to watch a
video. As if we really want to cuddle up to our suck-as* PC and rely
on it to give us reliable entertainment. It will be the downfall of the
living room if it gets infected by having a PC in there as a TV.
Hopefully the world will be smarter than that, Microsoft could
better serve everyone by FIXING winblows security and leave the
TV, video and Music to smart machines that only require and On &
Off button.
Reply to this comment
and if you want to watch hd dvds or blu ray
by ajbright August 31, 2005 11:27 AM PDT
Then the producers of these types of DVDs will reduce the output to standard definition if your TV doesn't support (and 99% of existing HDTVs don't) their copy protection protocols.

So what they're basically saying is if you are going to want to watch movies or even cable/satellite tv in around 5-7 years time, you'll almost certainly have to buy new TVs (or monitors if you use your PC as a DVR or TV tuner).

Vista will just add your computer to the list of devices that support these protections, and you can expect the discs themselves to be incompatible with this hardware - as well as old versions of Windows, Linux, etc.

Think going switching to a Mac will help, I guarantee that Macs will also have similar protections built in - not just because Jobs is in the movie business himself, but because they'll become incompatible with HD DVDs and the like if the OS isn't made compatible with the copy protection.

Also you can thank congress for allowing themselves to be bought by Hollywood - and passing laws such as the Broadcast Flag (don't worry, eventually it'll become law either via the courts or via a new version of the bill) and expect a new law that demands all hardware includes the very copy protection software/hardware MS is talking about.

They did it with macrovision, it is illegal to produce a DVD player without it - even if it is broken on the PS2 (which technically makes Sony a violater - ironic considering the amount of movies Sony produces).

But not to worry. I also guarantee that someone will produce software that will beat all these protections - but not in South America or Europe or Asia - because the US Government is making trade treaties and applying political pressure in those parts of the world to make sure that Hollywood, the music industry and Microsoft are protected.

Good to know that all you need to get the US Government to do what you want is enough money.
I happen to agree
by Leria September 1, 2005 12:52 AM PDT
I happen to agree with you. Why would I want to change to a Media Center PC with Vista, when it is a crapshoot whether it will work with my TV or monitor.
We really need to start pressuring Congress and others to look into this and pass laws saying that any DRM that makes consumers have to go out and buy new hardware or that makes older hardware not work correctly or at a reduced clip, is illegal, period and done with.
Hollywood isn't really worried about filesharing and piracy with these things. They are more interested in "Oops, your download from our music/movie service got corrupted. PAY UP AGAIN, SUCKERS!!!! HAH, HAH, HAH!"
Yeah, I want to give up my TV that works, for a PC? No way
by educateme August 30, 2005 4:52 AM PDT
When was the last time you wanted to sit in front of your PC and
answer DRM questions and wade thru security features to watch a
video. As if we really want to cuddle up to our suck-as* PC and rely
on it to give us reliable entertainment. It will be the downfall of the
living room if it gets infected by having a PC in there as a TV.
Hopefully the world will be smarter than that, Microsoft could
better serve everyone by FIXING winblows security and leave the
TV, video and Music to smart machines that only require and On &
Off button.
Reply to this comment
and if you want to watch hd dvds or blu ray
by ajbright August 31, 2005 11:27 AM PDT
Then the producers of these types of DVDs will reduce the output to standard definition if your TV doesn't support (and 99% of existing HDTVs don't) their copy protection protocols.

So what they're basically saying is if you are going to want to watch movies or even cable/satellite tv in around 5-7 years time, you'll almost certainly have to buy new TVs (or monitors if you use your PC as a DVR or TV tuner).

Vista will just add your computer to the list of devices that support these protections, and you can expect the discs themselves to be incompatible with this hardware - as well as old versions of Windows, Linux, etc.

Think going switching to a Mac will help, I guarantee that Macs will also have similar protections built in - not just because Jobs is in the movie business himself, but because they'll become incompatible with HD DVDs and the like if the OS isn't made compatible with the copy protection.

Also you can thank congress for allowing themselves to be bought by Hollywood - and passing laws such as the Broadcast Flag (don't worry, eventually it'll become law either via the courts or via a new version of the bill) and expect a new law that demands all hardware includes the very copy protection software/hardware MS is talking about.

They did it with macrovision, it is illegal to produce a DVD player without it - even if it is broken on the PS2 (which technically makes Sony a violater - ironic considering the amount of movies Sony produces).

But not to worry. I also guarantee that someone will produce software that will beat all these protections - but not in South America or Europe or Asia - because the US Government is making trade treaties and applying political pressure in those parts of the world to make sure that Hollywood, the music industry and Microsoft are protected.

Good to know that all you need to get the US Government to do what you want is enough money.
I happen to agree
by Leria September 1, 2005 12:52 AM PDT
I happen to agree with you. Why would I want to change to a Media Center PC with Vista, when it is a crapshoot whether it will work with my TV or monitor.
We really need to start pressuring Congress and others to look into this and pass laws saying that any DRM that makes consumers have to go out and buy new hardware or that makes older hardware not work correctly or at a reduced clip, is illegal, period and done with.
Hollywood isn't really worried about filesharing and piracy with these things. They are more interested in "Oops, your download from our music/movie service got corrupted. PAY UP AGAIN, SUCKERS!!!! HAH, HAH, HAH!"
Yeah, I want to give up my TV that works, for a PC? No way
by educateme August 30, 2005 4:52 AM PDT
When was the last time you wanted to sit in front of your PC and
answer DRM questions and wade thru security features to watch a
video. As if we really want to cuddle up to our suck-as* PC and rely
on it to give us reliable entertainment. It will be the downfall of the
living room if it gets infected by having a PC in there as a TV.
Hopefully the world will be smarter than that, Microsoft could
better serve everyone by FIXING winblows security and leave the
TV, video and Music to smart machines that only require and On &
Off button.
Reply to this comment
and if you want to watch hd dvds or blu ray
by ajbright August 31, 2005 11:27 AM PDT
Then the producers of these types of DVDs will reduce the output to standard definition if your TV doesn't support (and 99% of existing HDTVs don't) their copy protection protocols.

So what they're basically saying is if you are going to want to watch movies or even cable/satellite tv in around 5-7 years time, you'll almost certainly have to buy new TVs (or monitors if you use your PC as a DVR or TV tuner).

Vista will just add your computer to the list of devices that support these protections, and you can expect the discs themselves to be incompatible with this hardware - as well as old versions of Windows, Linux, etc.

Think going switching to a Mac will help, I guarantee that Macs will also have similar protections built in - not just because Jobs is in the movie business himself, but because they'll become incompatible with HD DVDs and the like if the OS isn't made compatible with the copy protection.

Also you can thank congress for allowing themselves to be bought by Hollywood - and passing laws such as the Broadcast Flag (don't worry, eventually it'll become law either via the courts or via a new version of the bill) and expect a new law that demands all hardware includes the very copy protection software/hardware MS is talking about.

They did it with macrovision, it is illegal to produce a DVD player without it - even if it is broken on the PS2 (which technically makes Sony a violater - ironic considering the amount of movies Sony produces).

But not to worry. I also guarantee that someone will produce software that will beat all these protections - but not in South America or Europe or Asia - because the US Government is making trade treaties and applying political pressure in those parts of the world to make sure that Hollywood, the music industry and Microsoft are protected.

Good to know that all you need to get the US Government to do what you want is enough money.
I happen to agree
by Leria September 1, 2005 12:52 AM PDT
I happen to agree with you. Why would I want to change to a Media Center PC with Vista, when it is a crapshoot whether it will work with my TV or monitor.
We really need to start pressuring Congress and others to look into this and pass laws saying that any DRM that makes consumers have to go out and buy new hardware or that makes older hardware not work correctly or at a reduced clip, is illegal, period and done with.
Hollywood isn't really worried about filesharing and piracy with these things. They are more interested in "Oops, your download from our music/movie service got corrupted. PAY UP AGAIN, SUCKERS!!!! HAH, HAH, HAH!"
I'll be all over this "upgrade"
by skeptik August 30, 2005 6:04 AM PDT
uh... yeah. I've never had the slightest interest in Linux, but it looks like the Microsoft marketing machine has finally convinced me it is time to look into changing my OS.

"Microsoft hopes that problems will be infrequent, and that most consumers won't have any idea that these protections even exist."

Microsoft hopes?!? Reminds me of the old classic joke:
Q: If you wish in one hand and s**t in the other, what do you end up with?
A: A Microsoft product.
Reply to this comment
they also"hoped"
by Scott W September 1, 2005 2:13 AM PDT
MS also "hoped" that windows would never blue screen. they also "hoped" that crackers wouldn't break into windows machines. they "hoped" that nobody would notice the security risks. they also "hope" that technically experienced users don't realise how s*** their product is and switch to linux.
I'll be all over this "upgrade"
by skeptik August 30, 2005 6:04 AM PDT
uh... yeah. I've never had the slightest interest in Linux, but it looks like the Microsoft marketing machine has finally convinced me it is time to look into changing my OS.

"Microsoft hopes that problems will be infrequent, and that most consumers won't have any idea that these protections even exist."

Microsoft hopes?!? Reminds me of the old classic joke:
Q: If you wish in one hand and s**t in the other, what do you end up with?
A: A Microsoft product.
Reply to this comment
they also"hoped"
by Scott W September 1, 2005 2:13 AM PDT
MS also "hoped" that windows would never blue screen. they also "hoped" that crackers wouldn't break into windows machines. they "hoped" that nobody would notice the security risks. they also "hope" that technically experienced users don't realise how s*** their product is and switch to linux.
I'll be all over this "upgrade"
by skeptik August 30, 2005 6:04 AM PDT
uh... yeah. I've never had the slightest interest in Linux, but it looks like the Microsoft marketing machine has finally convinced me it is time to look into changing my OS.

"Microsoft hopes that problems will be infrequent, and that most consumers won't have any idea that these protections even exist."

Microsoft hopes?!? Reminds me of the old classic joke:
Q: If you wish in one hand and s**t in the other, what do you end up with?
A: A Microsoft product.
Reply to this comment
they also"hoped"
by Scott W September 1, 2005 2:13 AM PDT
MS also "hoped" that windows would never blue screen. they also "hoped" that crackers wouldn't break into windows machines. they "hoped" that nobody would notice the security risks. they also "hope" that technically experienced users don't realise how s*** their product is and switch to linux.
Who in their right mind would use Vista?
by August 30, 2005 7:14 AM PDT
So let me get this straight. Not only do you now have to replace your computer every time Microsoft comes out with a new computer, now you have to replace your TV's too. What a sweet deal. Gee what should I do? Should I spend thousands of dollars on upgrading my software and hardware or not spend a dime and switch to Linux and MythTV. Geez what a dilema.
Reply to this comment
Who in their right mind would use Vista?
by August 30, 2005 7:14 AM PDT
So let me get this straight. Not only do you now have to replace your computer every time Microsoft comes out with a new computer, now you have to replace your TV's too. What a sweet deal. Gee what should I do? Should I spend thousands of dollars on upgrading my software and hardware or not spend a dime and switch to Linux and MythTV. Geez what a dilema.
Reply to this comment
Who in their right mind would use Vista?
by August 30, 2005 7:14 AM PDT
So let me get this straight. Not only do you now have to replace your computer every time Microsoft comes out with a new computer, now you have to replace your TV's too. What a sweet deal. Gee what should I do? Should I spend thousands of dollars on upgrading my software and hardware or not spend a dime and switch to Linux and MythTV. Geez what a dilema.
Reply to this comment
A little confused...
by TV James August 30, 2005 8:11 AM PDT
Doesn't this just mean that the piracy solution will just have to be more hardware-based? That is, a device that says it's one thing even though it's something else?

This is just like the hacker, unable to tap into network, puts on a gray jumpsuit and shows up at a branch office saying he's with MCI and he needs to adjust the VPN connection on your direct T1 to the main office. Poor little whatstheirname at the front desk, wanting to be helpful will often lead them right back to the utility closet, no questions asked.

As long as you're dealing in something intangible that can be moved from one piece of plastic to another, you're going to have people who have no trouble getting the digital bits to dance for them. If you want to be safe from illegal copying, go manufacture cars or something.
Reply to this comment
ack
by TV James August 30, 2005 8:11 AM PDT
should say "tap into your network"
A little confused...
by TV James August 30, 2005 8:11 AM PDT
Doesn't this just mean that the piracy solution will just have to be more hardware-based? That is, a device that says it's one thing even though it's something else?

This is just like the hacker, unable to tap into network, puts on a gray jumpsuit and shows up at a branch office saying he's with MCI and he needs to adjust the VPN connection on your direct T1 to the main office. Poor little whatstheirname at the front desk, wanting to be helpful will often lead them right back to the utility closet, no questions asked.

As long as you're dealing in something intangible that can be moved from one piece of plastic to another, you're going to have people who have no trouble getting the digital bits to dance for them. If you want to be safe from illegal copying, go manufacture cars or something.
Reply to this comment
ack
by TV James August 30, 2005 8:11 AM PDT
should say "tap into your network"
A little confused...
by TV James August 30, 2005 8:11 AM PDT
Doesn't this just mean that the piracy solution will just have to be more hardware-based? That is, a device that says it's one thing even though it's something else?

This is just like the hacker, unable to tap into network, puts on a gray jumpsuit and shows up at a branch office saying he's with MCI and he needs to adjust the VPN connection on your direct T1 to the main office. Poor little whatstheirname at the front desk, wanting to be helpful will often lead them right back to the utility closet, no questions asked.

As long as you're dealing in something intangible that can be moved from one piece of plastic to another, you're going to have people who have no trouble getting the digital bits to dance for them. If you want to be safe from illegal copying, go manufacture cars or something.
Reply to this comment
ack
by TV James August 30, 2005 8:11 AM PDT
should say "tap into your network"
Another reason to avoid Vista
by Thrudheim August 30, 2005 11:03 AM PDT
"The operating system will also check what the computer is
connected to (a monitor, a TV, and so on), do another check to
make sure the device really is what it says it is, and then see
what kind of plug, or output mechanism, is being used to
connect the computer to the device. Vista will go much further
than previous operating systems in checking devices that are
several steps downstream, if several digital components are
connected to each other. If it finds that there is a device that
doesn't respect DRM rules, or if it finds a plug that doesn't
support transmission of those copy-protection rules, it might
not let the video be sent through that output at all."

With Windows' less-than-stellar history handling devices, this
sounds like a recipe for a big mess. What a troubleshooting
nightmare if things don't work right. Another reason to avoid
Vista.
Reply to this comment
Another reason to avoid Vista
by Thrudheim August 30, 2005 11:03 AM PDT
"The operating system will also check what the computer is
connected to (a monitor, a TV, and so on), do another check to
make sure the device really is what it says it is, and then see
what kind of plug, or output mechanism, is being used to
connect the computer to the device. Vista will go much further
than previous operating systems in checking devices that are
several steps downstream, if several digital components are
connected to each other. If it finds that there is a device that
doesn't respect DRM rules, or if it finds a plug that doesn't
support transmission of those copy-protection rules, it might
not let the video be sent through that output at all."

With Windows' less-than-stellar history handling devices, this
sounds like a recipe for a big mess. What a troubleshooting
nightmare if things don't work right. Another reason to avoid
Vista.
Reply to this comment
Another reason to avoid Vista
by Thrudheim August 30, 2005 11:03 AM PDT
"The operating system will also check what the computer is
connected to (a monitor, a TV, and so on), do another check to
make sure the device really is what it says it is, and then see
what kind of plug, or output mechanism, is being used to
connect the computer to the device. Vista will go much further
than previous operating systems in checking devices that are
several steps downstream, if several digital components are
connected to each other. If it finds that there is a device that
doesn't respect DRM rules, or if it finds a plug that doesn't
support transmission of those copy-protection rules, it might
not let the video be sent through that output at all."

With Windows' less-than-stellar history handling devices, this
sounds like a recipe for a big mess. What a troubleshooting
nightmare if things don't work right. Another reason to avoid
Vista.
Reply to this comment
Vista will be stillborn.
by bobby_brady August 30, 2005 11:04 AM PDT
RIP Vista...What a joke Vista has turned out to be, and I was a supporter and a holder of many shares of MSFT.
Reply to this comment
Vista will be stillborn.
by bobby_brady August 30, 2005 11:04 AM PDT
RIP Vista...What a joke Vista has turned out to be, and I was a supporter and a holder of many shares of MSFT.
Reply to this comment
Vista will be stillborn.
by bobby_brady August 30, 2005 11:04 AM PDT
RIP Vista...What a joke Vista has turned out to be, and I was a supporter and a holder of many shares of MSFT.
Reply to this comment
bloatware
by mpotter28 August 30, 2005 2:05 PM PDT
It wouldn;t be so bad if it was just one useless function but MS will add enough weird bs to VISTA that the new machine you buy to run it will perform at the same speed as your old one. The real question is why should I upgrade to a new os when all the features mentioned by MS have been dropped and they seem to be continually adding features (for free) that get in my way and help somebody else.
Reply to this comment
bloatware
by mpotter28 August 30, 2005 2:05 PM PDT
It wouldn;t be so bad if it was just one useless function but MS will add enough weird bs to VISTA that the new machine you buy to run it will perform at the same speed as your old one. The real question is why should I upgrade to a new os when all the features mentioned by MS have been dropped and they seem to be continually adding features (for free) that get in my way and help somebody else.
Reply to this comment
Showing 1 of 2 pages (63 Comments)
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