Comments on: MPAA says Real's patent attempt saps RealDVD argument

Movie studios allege patent application filed by RealNetworks proves company misled the court about circumventing copy protection measures.

[Kainchild]

There are methods out there that could have been used to guarantee that the hard drive couldn't be removed in working condition.

[SniffTheDuck]

This is a good idea! I thought we were allowed to make copies of media like a CD or DVD so we could keep the origional fragile disk safe ( I may be wrong there but if I'm not allowed to copy scratched disks before they totally go then I want them made of something else! ). If you can't easily take out the drive then this would just be our copy.

[paulej]

Without being an expert on the DMCA and the provisions relating to "circumvention of anti-piracy measures", I cannot say whether what Real is doing really breaking the law or not. That said, my understanding of what Real is trying to accomplish seems reasonable. They are definitely not trying to circumvent copy protection measures so that users can then distribute content far and wide.

Since the DMCA was enacted, I have heard nothing but complaints about the law. The only ones who seem to want it are those in the movie industry. Is this a law that got pushed through by one powerful organization? It seems to me this law needs to be repealed. We had copyright laws for years, they were already clear, and the traditional copyright laws are supported world-wide (by and large). Other than the "circumvention" piece, what other "value" does the DMCA offer to copyright holders?

[sandonet]

Paulej

That's an excellent point. If Real can lock down movies in Facet, then what's the harm? Facet is a great idea and I saw Glaser demonstrate the box in court. I immediately thought about all the shelf room I could save if I stored my DVDs on a box like Facet and then sold the discs.

[funkyboot]

Sondonet,

You ask what the harm in Facet is then go on to post about the harm it could cause. You copying your DVD's then selling the discs is exactly what the MPAA is suing to try and prevent. That's basically the same as the "rent and rip" and would likely fall outside of what is otherwise known as "fair use." When it comes to fair use and CD's, the minute you no longer own the original discs, you would not be entitled to use of the copy you made. If you keep a copy of a disc you sold, that would equate to you being in possession of a copy of work that you did not have the right to copy (copyright, get it).

[Renegade Knight]

@funkyboot

It's not as simply as you lay out. Case in point. DVR's. We have a fair use right to time shift our viewing. It started with VCRs but the principal is the same for DVD, Digital Content, etc.

If what you rent is time shifted and you do'nt retain the shifted copy, you are good to go. Maybe. It's not as clear as I'd like to think either.

[sandonet]

funkyboot,

I disagree (cool handle though). Rent and rip is very specific. It describes renting a video, copying and then returning it. I bought every one of my DVDs. Just as I once used to copy my CDs I should be enabled to copy my films for my own use. The rule should apply...no forget that. Forget the DMCA and the rules. Hollywood should want me to get as much satisfaction as possible from my purchase.

If Facet enables me to easily store, access and view my films, they should be supporting this in my opinion. For its own sake, the studios have got to make people feel like they're getting value from their movie purchases. Facet could be one way to do that.

you guys really don't pay attention.

@funkyboot said it's "basically the same." he didn't say it was "exactly" the same.
what @sandonet described is clearly illegal, even without DMCA, regardless of what the rest of you want to do, w/ or w/o DMCA regs.

I really support Real's attempt at breaking the MPAA cartel's stranglehold on FAIR USE but your arguments here only cloud the issues.

Can anyone describe the legal considerations of ARccos and RipGuard as an encryption method?
What does this method do? I've read the redacted court filings and this is the weakest part of Real's case. Their case seems to be ad hoc arguments considered at the last minute. Fair Use argument was thrown out by the judge prior to beginnings of the hearings since they were filed the day before. Where can we find a more in depth analysis of the legal strategies?

[techman21]

DCMA needs to die. It was a bad law to begin with.

[techman21]

Oops, I mean DMCA.

[Lerianis3]

I have to agree. The fact is that the DMCA was a BAD LAW that made a lot of stuff that was commonly thought of as legal, illegal!

Personally, I think that we SHOULD have a right to 'rent and rip' considering that we are paying almost the WHOLE PRICE of a DVD when we are renting now and the MPAA has already GOTTEN THEIR MONEY for the copy of the DVD that we are ripping and returning.
Same thing for CD"s: we already have NUMEROUS methods to get songs for free, so it doesn't make it any more 'illegal' (or illegal at all!) to offer them online at 'higher qualities' for people to download. Until they get rid of FM radio and AM radio, the RIAA can STUFF THEIR ARGUMENTS.

[contentcreator--2008]

Lerianis - of course MPAA doesn't get that money from the rental at all (nor from anyone else for that matter). The rental company keeps renting the disk over and over, collecting all the money, while all the people keep copies, as you would have it, and the creators get zip. And of course the reason the cost of buying the disk is low (remember when they used to be $70???) is to try to convince you to buy them.

Your last comment about how it shouldn't be illegal to steal copies online because they are on the radio --- that falls in the category of "how clueless are you?"

[ywkhgqo]

the headquarters of the mpaa needs to become the latest site of a major meteor strike

[russkeller]

If not for the fact that they'd be replaced with other stupid out of touch bankers who don't understand technology and how to use it instead of just fearing it I'd be for that.

That's the real problem, all the CEO's, executives, and other so called businessmen are really little more than bankers incapable of independent thought. In fact they're a fantastic shinning example of the incompetence that's caused this whole financial meltdown.

[contentcreator--2008]

russkeller --- if you knew anything you'd know that you have the whole thing completely backwards, that the meltdown was a high-tech creative orgy of destruction. All of this if just "blah blah blah" I want stuff and I don't want to pay.

The bottom line is that people continuously seek to maximize what they can grab and minimize what they have to pay. Businesses try to profit as much as they can, but that is self-limiting in a competitive market. When people steal, they make it a non-market, and businesses (which ultimately people own) are forced to increasingly stringent measures to cope.

[russkeller]

contentcreator.

If you were competent you'd know 'consumers' in general are more than willing to pay. But when you refuse to provide the product in the form the consumers are demanding it.... That's when the napsters pop up. No one is going to be PAYING for a product like this to iligally copy a DVD. Think about it, if your capable.

[dddjones]

I wonder why the MPAA is going after Real when companies such as FusionRD, Escient, and Colorado vNet do already do what the Facet player is supposed to do. They all claim not to install 3rd party decrypting software yet are able to store movies. So perhaps they have figured out how to store movies without decrypting them? May be their engineers were smarter than Real?

[troppp]

Answer: Once the RIAA beats down one company, they set a precedent that allows them to beat down everybody else with ease. A case with Real would be high-vis and have a higher initial impact. Just look what they did with SeeqPod.

[frenchfry42]

This tiny bit of C code is all it takes to copy an arccos or ripguard "protected" dvd... would anyone call that effective protection?

while(ReadFile(hDVD,buffer,2048,&NumBytes,NULL) && NumBytes!=0)
{ WriteFile(hDest,buffer,NumBytes,&NumBytes,NULL); }

[aka_tripleB]

Someone should walk into court and yell, ".ISO". I'm sure the MPAA is avoiding the subject, but I can't see why REAL hasn't brought it up. I'd like to see how the judge reacts when someone explains what an .ISO is.