Comments on: U2 manager: 'Ultimately free is the enemy of good'

ISPs are doing more to protect copyright music and movies than ever but it's not good enough for Paul McGuinness, the outspoken manager of U2.

[pentest]

Enforcing copyright is a burden of the copyright holder, not third parties.

[Renegade Knight]

If ISP's protect content, what are they doing to protect the content of their users?

He got at least one thing right. The future is likely wider distribution of lesser priced things.

[manualfunky]

everyone is aware that bands actually make their cash from tours and merchandising, right? they get sweet F A from the sale of music especially through the major labels, a lot of it goes back to paying the label back the huge loan they gave them to record in their (labels) recording studio!

Download pirate music and go to concerts so that bands get their money

[kev7773]

A lot of the used CD stores I used to frequent back in my college days allowed customers to listen to any CD in the store before you bought it. You could stand around the aisles with gigantor noise-canceling headphones on and jam to your favorite artist, or discover new music, without spending a dime. This was not illegal - it was sampling before you bought. If the record companies can come up with a way to allow customers to sample an album in the privacy of their own home, I can only imagine how this would boost sales -- new bands being discovered, or old fossils being dug up from the past to a whole new generation of consumers.

While piracy is wrong, it is currently on of the only ways to sample artists from all types of genres and eras - not just what a few visionary artists have made available on their official sites. While many people who download music illegally are doing so just to sample and then go out and purchase the same music they downloaded, another part of the community doesn't bother - because as a previous reader commented earlier on - they don't want to give their hard-earned money to the RIAA until they change their attitude and start treating customers like customers, not like thieves.

[manualfunky]

everyone is aware that bands actually make their cash from tours and merchandising, right? they get sweet F A from the sale of music especially through the major labels, a lot of it goes back to paying the label back the huge loan they gave them to record in their (labels) recording studio!

Download pirate music and go to concerts so that bands get their money

[gibraltarit]

Wrong title, should read

U2 manager: Ultimately HE is the enemy of good

[jeffromiller]

I would argue that a "used" CD is no different than Pirate Bay - you buy a CD, listen to it yourself (maybe make a copy of it or upload it to only your PC), then you go sell it back to a store for $5 for someone else to buy (the artist won't receive a dime of that second payment - so, isn't that scenario the same from the artists perspective for the person buying it the second time as downloading it on Pirate Bay for free). No one in the music industry had (or has) a problem with Used CD Store sales because it was (and is) not nearly as effective a distribution medium as the Internet. Using the "moral" argument is therefore moot unless you want to shut down every mom-and-pop CD store that sells used CD's. The CD was sold intitially and the artist collected royalties on it regardless of whether the first person who bought it hid it under his matress or then took it to a used CD store or uploaded it to Pirate Bay. Harping on ISP's is hypocritical unless you also harp on all the mom-and-pop record stores selling used CD's. I wonder if Mr. McGuiness ever made a "mix tape" back in the 70's or bought a Used CD prior to his good fortune with U2? Maybe the RIAA should go after him too?

[screamapillar]

Good point jeffro, Interesting also that authors don't hate the concept of a library where all the books are free to read and pass around - even the very latest book!! And get this - it isn't a poorer quality version, or a version that has some DRM on it so you can only read it in your lounge room but not in your car. Or a version you can't take away from the library. Or a version where the text is a little faded to encourage you to buy the 'real' one. Nope. It is the EXACT same book you could buy.

And yet, I don't hear authors demanding libraries be shut down.

To the contrary, most authors and academics - those that make money from writing - insist that we as a society are doing poorer due to a LACK of libraries. Could it be, perhaps, that art is meant for people and that the artist will get their money one way or the other regardless of if there are free facilities also available?

But omg it gets worse - author's LOVE the idea of libraries and LOVE the idea of you lending your copy of a book to someone else. *** is with that? Surely that is a lost sale right there - man, need some sort of drm padlock device on a book huh? Oh wait, author's think sharing books is a GOOD thing. ***? Are they crazy?

And guess what - a substantial amount of book sales comes BECAUSE of libraries. Because of sharing a book with someone else. Omg how could that be? Didn't the person access that art for free? Wait, could it be that they thought it WORTHY of purchase? Could it be that they then told all their friends about the book too?

Good quality music will sell and make money because it is good quality. Period. Batman was the most pirated film and also made the most money. Good things make money AND are also accessed for free. This is not an atrocity. It is art going to where it should - the people.

[pentest]

Did that jackass actually compare the Beatles and Elvis to U2?

U2 had a few decent records in the 80's, but are not talented at all. Not a single member is an outstanding musician or singer. I know garage bands that could blow these clowns away.

[camp88]

if McGuinness is correct and
"Free is the enemy of good"

and (as we all know)
good is the enemy of great (because if one's happy with "good" then one doesn't strive for great)

then
free is the companion of great

because
my enemy's enemy is my friend.

And hey, I'll take great over good any time.

Thanks for clarifying that for us Mr McGuinness

[camp88]

jeffromiller writes "I would argue that a "used" CD is no different than Pirate Bay - you buy a CD, listen to it yourself (maybe make a copy of it or upload it to only your PC), then you go sell it back to a store for $5 for someone else to buy . . ."

actually PB is very different than this: no one is reselling the material, they're simply giving it away.

[jeffromiller]

But from the artists perspective, it's no different. They (e.g. U2) don't get compensated for that second transaction either way - whether someone pays $2 to Mom-and-Pop records for it or whether it's downloaded for free. My point is that it's hypocritical for McGuiness to single out ISP's.

[Dalkorian]

Right, TPB is far less greedy than the old used CD stores because no one is trying to make money off of it anymore. They're just sharing what they enjoy, which apparently is evil according to the talentless bono's ... I mean bozo's ... that comprise the "band" called U2.

Enjoyment is evil, corporate profit is good. Yeah, we'll buy that argument! We're stupid enough to buy anything a fat, balding dinosaur cares to sell us!

[screamapillar]

I agree with you camp88 - indeed, the used CD could be arguably very distructive for the music industry. Consider these two points that add to your insightful post:

*Where the copy accessed on PB is good quality the used CD could be poor - this will unfortunately make the consumer like the artwork less at no fault of the artist. This could also cost the artist a fan (a repeat purchaser) which is a heavy cost, far more than the cost of just one cd. So the used CD is very costly in this scenario.
*Where the copy accessed via PB is not a lost sale (indeed it might create a sale) the used CD is - the PB accessed version, once sampled, may entice the consumer to go out and purchase the CD, even if it is a CD they never would've considered purchasing before. This is creation of not just a sale, but a whole new marketplace and a new fan. So PB version has the capacity to generate NEW sales, not just sales to existing fans. In the meantime, the Used CD will mean the person will not purchase a copy of the CD new, meaning a lost sale.

[tgrenier]

fta "I think the universality of pop music that we've become used to in the last few decades that's in danger. "

Yeah.

If someone came along as talented as the Beatles, Elvis or even Michael Jackson, they'd make a ton of money and be heard all over the world. The less business we have, the more music we'll have.

[hleeowen]

Record companies suck. Always have. They keep small acts out of the game and profit on the big ones.
They now want ISP's to be their police force. Go hire your own police, don't burden ISP's. There was a good point above about USB drives. Gee, they can still trade music without ISP's.
Radio has always been free. Now because you can listen for free on the internet, it must be stopped???? This is how bands get exposure.
I say, give away the music and sell tix to see it live. Sell Tshirts, stickers and various merchandise. Free the music! If you can't perform live and sell tix, go get a job at a bank.

[Len Bullard]

Having been through this debate hundreds of times since the very beginning of file swappping, there is little to say to the Spy Vs Spy arguments. The technologists are going to find out that Lessig has been wrong about the architecture being the law and they are the lawmakers. It is possible to enforce contract law on the web and most of us know it. As long as there are speaker wires, there is no way to stop copying and most of us know it. Copyright enforcement has always been the responsibillity of the copyright holder and some of us know it.

1. Fighting the UI is futile. The web is a copying machine and you can't keep your material off the web. The old price-per-copy system is dead. Get over it. The costs of recording have plunged and scaled outward. Gresham's Law is in effect and U2's manager will have to get his head around that.

2. The music industry failed society because it not only could not adapt, too much of its outsized profits have been going to middle men who now no longer have a role to play. Of those, the ones who insist on trying to keep the traditional industry in place are simply going to exit the business soon enough.

3. A broadband tax can be used as it has been used to remunerate artists if that is truly who middle men left standing are concerned about. The problem is ASCAP, BMI and SESAC really aren't set up to determine how to do this because they are still stuck in a mechanical royalties system that tries to count copies. It won't work and so far, I've seen few suggestions for distributing such a tax that can be trusted. Until that is worked out, expect this situation to deteriorate further.

4. Bad music doesn't sell. You can put a rocket engine on a rock and make it fly but you can't pilot it in a direction you don't aim at before you light the fuse. The failure to innovate in the music business is the core reason for slacking sales. People were copying before the Internet and will continue to do so at ever widening scales.

5. New business models for independents are emerging out of the available services and we are taking advantage of them. The profits aren't very good and won't be for awhile just as they weren't that good in the 1950s when transistor radios began to supplant the control of the juke box.

6. Innovate doesn't mean rebrand or repackage. Music as a standalone medium is dieing. The talented artists and the aware artists realize the American Idol model is busted. They are learning hypermedia technology and wrapping their music in self-made videos and real-time 3D. Real-time 3D is the sleeper here but it takes more talent than Bono has to do it (he can learn it, but he won't).

If you want to survive this, study what the Guthrie family does with the web. They are smarter than you are and they are adaptive. You aren't. That means you perish even if you go down rich. This isn't about good vs bad; it is about vitality vs languour.

And a monotonous languour fills your heart like a concrete bunker without guns. You are defenseless until you solve the problem of collections not based on copies.

Dascha, listening to professionals with degrees in the business is how you failed. You need to get out of the box and look around for vital solutions.

[SharpD0g]

I am a software developer and so I view myself as a content creator. One of the problems here is the divisiveness that RIAA, MPAA and shrink-wrapped license agreements create by their one-sided heavy-handedness. I think that is the second-most important problem after price.

WIth regards to price, If I am to pay for a video game, song, software package, movie or any other digital content every couple of years when I get a new device to use it on, it absolutely does not have the same value to me as a hard-copy painting, vinyl album, CD, book or other item that I can use and enjoy for decades.

Attempts to scare and 'sue the pants off' of individuals trying to preserve their investment (because, after all, most digital copies cost as much as their physical counterparts) is meant with resentment and retaliation.

There is some PR work to be done with users. If you cannot get the end users on board, then all the efforts with DRM, ISPs and the court systems of the world will fail.

[B-Ri]

I guess one thing that disturbs me is that he says the ISPs should do more to help prevent piracy. I would much rather the ISPs focus on getting the best internet connections more prevalent and stable. I am a Charter customer and have been having frequent outages in the past few months. The problem is more that the ISPs are trying to leverage themselves into the content business as it is. This just is a recipe for abuse more than anything else.

[Earl Benzar]

I have news for this troglodyte, as Johnny Rotten once said "we don't care." You and Bono are about as relevant as that other Bono, Sonny.

[pw1y]

He does make a certain valid point or two, unfortunately this issue is too polarizing for most to see it. It is also interesting to note how forgiving some people are to the ISP's which are clearly profiting from a service which facilitates the new free model. How dare they.

[The Wiethoff]

Expensive isn't the same as good

[badasscat]

"Free is the enemy of good" - do these people think before they speak?

The guy sounds like Brezhnev.

In context it's actually worse. The preceding sentences make it sound like a nomination acceptance speech for Premier of the Soviet Union.

[spotaha]

The real point to take away from all of this is Mr. McGuinness' last comments about companies approaching the music/movie co's and propose ways they can make money from their content....

Well, you're over a decade late!

I have been involved very intimately with this business, and it's not the technologies that screwed you Mr. McGuinness, it was you and your labels. We approached these companies and asked... We proposed ways to generate huge amounts of revenue. Some deals were done at a rate taht was too costly to make it work, ensuring the dinosaur's last hurrah.

These file sharing programs weren't created by big companies... they were created by folks in their living and dorm rooms because the dinosaurs gave them no other option AFTER they did what Mr. McGuinness suggests, asking/doing a deal to use the content.

So don't come back to your user base a decade+ after you made a huge error and say I'm sorry and just expect us to let you back into our good graces. In that time, we have realized how much crap you had been forcing down our throats, how you're industry charged technology recovery fees for the development of the CD for 20+ years and the "hits" just keep on coming.....

While I am not a proponent of copyright infringement, theft or anything else you may want to call it... it is your bed that you made and now you must lay in it. There are rules and regs on the books that you can use to enforce already existing laws. There's no reason to make someone else do your dirty work (i.e. the Justice Department). Get off your ass and do your work, stop whining and get a life in the real world.