Comments on: Craigslist struggles with sex ad crackdown

Some prostitution ads manage to get by Craigslist's monitors. Can employees determine whether photos of women wearing sexy underwear are prostitutes?

[SIGHUP]

?Backpages.com is an online classified publication? should be backpage.com.

[myles taylor]

I have said it in every one of these stories and I'll say it again. Trying to stop prostitution is like trying to stop the tide ocean or the sun from rising. It's one of the oldest occupations in history and a few laws never changed and never will change it. All the laws do is make it dangerous and drive it underground.

Legalize it, tax it, regulate it, and make it safe.

[Grifter02]

I agree 100%. Why do people care so much what someone else spends his money on? Just put regulations in place to prevent the spread of diseases and let them make some legitimate money.

[odubtaig]

Because it's working so well in Amsterdam:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/263117
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/04/some_200_young_girls_victims_o.php
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/02/more_trafficking_victims_found.php
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/484f9a2f3c.html

[chambcm]

I also agree. What a continued waste of time, money and effort in trying to stop it.

[odubtaig]

"Legalizing prostitution was infused with the idea of the articulate prostitute, who should get rights and better working conditions. But that image is incorrect, says Schaapman ( http://members.chello.nl/p.g.j.schaapman/ ). Two third of prostitutes are foreign, most often illegal and nobody is registering. The Amsterdam police has a port-folio with 76 violent pimps operating on de Wallen. Often they stand at the corner, counting the customers of 'his' woman, to subsequently collect the money. 'It is very difficult for the police to get a case. Pimping is allowed, but exploitation and violence of course are not. But the women do not file reports, or will retrieve them later on.'"

[myles taylor]

@odubtaig So the Dutch aren't doing it right. Doesn't mean that it can't work. Also, is our current system working? Is prostitution being prevented? No.

If there was a legal way to obtain a prostitute, it would cut back on the violence and crime. Yes, it would still exist to some extent, but not near the degree.

[odubtaig]

Do you even have the slightest shred of evidence for you claims?

No.

[Dalkorian]

<sarcasm>

No, prostitutes didn't exist before Craigslist, so Craigslist invented prostitution. They did it to run more ads, which makes them more money. So women are being exploited for the obscene profits of the CEO of Craigslist.

<end sarcasm>

Oh, and I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you to. Interested?

[odubtaig]

Probably not the answer you schlubs are looking for:

World takes notice of Swedish prostitute laws
By Karl Ritter in Stockholm
Monday, 17 March 2008

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/world-takes-notice-of-swedish-prostitute-laws-796793.html

"police know from eavesdropping on human trafficking rings that Sweden is considered bad business because of its tough stance."

[unknown unknown]

The U.S has at least one place with legalized prostitution, 8 counties in Nevada.

[ajbright]

There are places in the US where prostitution is legal, and I'd be interested to know what the numbers are for violence against women in those states, particularly violence against prostitutes.

You have examples of professionally run brothels that obviously look after the women they employ, but those that aren't deemed attractive or honest enough to work in those places still end up on the street and are still subject to the same issues of violence and rape. And yes it is possible to rape a prostitute because rape is a crime of violence and human indignity. It should be considered closer to torture than sex.

My worry is always for those that are caught in the trap of poverty and drug abuse. Human traffickers are obviously a problem, but I think the numbers governments tend to use include too many examples of people who are merely illegal immigrants and have never been victims of slavery and violence.

In the UK for example the police will report any foreign resident who engages in prostitution as a statistic for human trafficking crimes, regardless of whether they have evidence to back it up. The good part about this of course is it makes it easier for politicians to get funding to fight human trafficking for sex slavery in particular. Anything that fights this can only be a good thing.

[TxTodd]

The pic @ the top of the smexy boots.... please tell me that's Natali Del Conte!!! (even if it isn't true :)

[Harrison912]

I use Craig's list occasionally to market my safety and security web site products so I'm always interested in anything going on there. What ever the outcome of this debate, it's bringing lots of traffic to Craig's List and that's great!

[unknown unknown]

They should have stuck to their original position, that the Erotic Services section was staying and filed this lawsuit for declaratory relief from this grandstanding idiot earlier.

[Just_Jack]

I hope the lawsuit against the SC AG is successful. It's long past time to send a message to grandstanding social conservative whackos that there's this thing called the Bill of Rights...

[odubtaig]

Does the Bill of Rights automatically allow you to advertise illegal services?

No.

Unless there's a lot of hitmen and firestarters also advertising.

[mikeburek]

@odubtaig Yes, you are right: "Does the Bill of Rights automatically allow you to advertise illegal services? -- No"

But who is "you." Here "you" is the person selling, not Craigslist. The AG should go after the individuals breaking the law, not Craigslist. If I wanted an easy cop job, I'd just go through the pages in Craigslist and check each person out. Then I'd have an impressive record of apprehending lots of people and not even leaving my desk.

Some cities have anti-hang-out laws around neighborhoods, especially around pay phones. Why didn't the AG just fine the phone company for providing the phones? Instead, they went after the people who were dealing drug and using the phone.

So why not go after the people doing illegal activities instead of the tools they are using?

And why haven't these AGs looked at all the "I'm looking for 420" ads? Isn't that illegal also? Why focus on only prostitutes?

[odubtaig]

The medium is the internet, not Craigslist. So long as they are selling classifieds space, they are responsible for that content the same way a newspaper is responsible for its content.

[DanRobinson]

Replace "Craigs List" with "Sidewalk."

". . . The creators of the sidewalk were threatened with prosecution by South Carolina's attorney general since prostitutes and other evil beings regularly walk there."

If the AG wants to prosecute someone, he should just call up the flippin' phone number and ask that someone meets him for sex.

Or is that too obvious?

[odubtaig]

So, if someone has a private road and they let prostitutes operate from the sidewalk of that private road and charge a fee for them to be allowed to do so, they're not going to be prosecuted?

Yeah, right.

[mikeburek]

The cities own the sidewalk. it's the city's fault.

Also, aren't phone companies being sued? Every Craigslist post says "call....". So if we didn't have phones, then there would be no prostitution. The phone is essential to prostitution on Craigslist. And all the payphones that are used for prostitutes and for drug deal? The AG should look into suing the phone companies for not listening on every phone call and determining if the call is legal. People pay for the phone calls just the same way people pay to put a listing on Craigslist.

[odubtaig]

So, are you saying there wouldn't be some sort of penalty for 'the city' if it didn't at least attempt to do something? Hmmm?

See above re Craigslist. It's not a medium, it's a publication.

[faceless128]

why do people keep saying that they're trying to stop prostitution?

if they were trying to stop prostitution, they would investigate and arrest the prostitutes that are abusing the online classifieds, these attorney generals are trying to sweep this under the rug, not trying to stop it.

[chris_n_ABQ]

Craigslist isnt a sidewalk, or a "place" at all, so no odubtaig the analogy is not valid.

Craigslist is an information medium, like electricity. It is data. They provide a data storage service.

* You post the data. They store and display the data.
* Just like you pick up your cell phone, and Sprint or whatever provides the medium to move your data (your voice).

Providers are protected from having to worry about the content of the data (or they used to be ha) because there is *so much of it*, A, and its content is generated by PRIVATE CITIZENS, B, and perhaps more importantly; citizens, who enjoy the bill of rights, can expect that their private communications be free from government intrusion except under proviso of a warrant or court order.

In other words, it would normally require a *search warrant* to ascertain the contents of private communication, i.e. emails phone calls etc.

So you see, as A DATA SERVICE provider, craigslist is not and cannot be rationally or legally responsible for the behavior of seperate, private individuals.

The only legal course of action is to go after the individuals posting the ads. But I think personally that this is still way too far to go in a rational society. Its better to leave people the hell alone. Illegal prostitution only encourages exploitation and profiteering, as is true in almost ALL black market situations, such as drugs, liqour during the thirties, illegal gambling, weapons sales, or what-have-you.

But we dont seem to be livinbg in a rational society, do we? ..despite the lip-service paid to the idea. Even the lip-service is fading away. What happened to the enlightenment?

[codynews]

Why would anyone pay for sex when you can go to just about any bar in any major city and pick up some bar ****? I never had a problem finding someone to sleep when when I was single.

People are just lazy :P

[virtualharvestva]

It?s a very diverse classified listing site, and just like most anything can be misused for wrongful purposes. I am glad they are restructuring and monitoring the ads more closely. I have found it to be a very responsive tool for marketing. The diversity generates a tremendous amount of traffic and users benefit in numerous ways ? both in business and personal capacities.

I use it in marketing to develop my business... read more at: http://blog.virtualharvestva.com/.

[beatyourprice]

The problem is not craigslist. problem is people do post all this ads and you cant stop it. I run free classified ads site http://www.beatyourprice.com i keep delete them and they come back from diff. ip address. And if they dont post ads in craigslsit they will find diff classified sites.