Comments on: IE slips further as Firefox, Safari, Chrome gain

Microsoft's browser has steadily lost ground to its competitors in the past year, with most of the drop coming from slippage by Internet Explorer 6.

[ballmerisanape]

It sucks when you are at least 2 years behind in useful features (tabbed browsing...). And it's going to take a toll.

That's good though... living healthy is about balance.. and Microsoft's pendulum is swinging the other way now. If they are smart.. they will realize that the tech world is consumer driven now... and they should adapt and give real people what they want.. and not cater to 80's computer geeks who think it's ok to have to go into DOS for simple tasks.

[Mr. Dee]

Internet Explorer has had built in Tabbed browsing since November 2006. IE 6 users also had tabbed add with the release of the MSN Toolbar since 2004.

[Risket]

@ Mr. Dee

Yes IE has had tabbed browsing since 2006.... however tabbed browsing was first introduced in 1998 by NetCaptor. Opera picked up on it in 2000 and Firefox added it in 2001. It seems like during those times the folks over at Microsoft were just sitting around playing with themselves since it took them FIVE YEARS LONGER than their biggest competitors to add tabbed browsing.

I work with some people who actually use IE. I remember when they were all excited about the "new feature" when tabbed browsing was finally added. I just laughed along with a couple other people I work with who are more computer savvy.... we've HAD tabbed browsing for YEARS because we use Firefox.

[Dalkorian]

Internet Exploder's feature anorexia is the least of its problems. Any web browser that simply can not be removed from the underlying OS is a travesty that needs to be beaten to death behind the woodshed.

[shootthecops]

the rate of loss this month wasnt quite what i was hoping for, the movement away from IE may unfortunately be tapering off.

[t8]

Hopefully the loss of IE's market share will increase when Google starts bundling their browser at OEM level.

[Zoobie]

MS has a built in advantage with corporations that won't allow Firefox as part of the standard software image. Although with Firefox up to 22%, I'd say more corporations are approving it if users request it, and home usage is probably well above 22%.

[HlLLARY CLITON]

Internet Explorer 8 so far is slooooooooowww.

[t8]

Sure is. It use to be an advantage that Microsoft had, that is, loading the browser in the Windows Kernel. But that advantage seems to have long gone. Chrome for example opens up in much quicker time that IE, and opening tabs and browsing is significantly faster.

[Lerianis]

Actually, it is not slow. I've timed it and Minefield (latest version) after disabling all the plugins in IE8.... it's about the same speed surfing from page to page.
Now, the PROBLEM comes when you active those plugins and ActiveX controls.... ESPECIALLY the ones that Microsoft Office installs! That slows the browser down so that it takes anywhere from 30-60 seconds to open, even in Windows 7.
I've informed Microsoft of this, but haven't heard anything back from them... hopefully, this will be solved in Microsoft Office 14's release.

[pentium4forever]

I agree with you on that. Using IE 8 beta on Windows 7, it's painfully slow just at launching. I don't have Office installed either. IE 7 goes circles around IE 8.

[kelmon]

HURRAY! IE6, don't let the door slam into you too hard as you leave!

I'm honestly not that bothered about web browsers with the exception of IE6, which needs to die a horrible death.

[rapier1]

Agreed. I only wish the medical IT industry would banish IE6 to the stinking rotten grave from which it arose. I'll always be thankful MS came up with the idea of XMLHttpRequest but I will continue to curse them for IE5 and 6.

[mono1980]

IE6 needs to go to hell and die.

[therobot]

I may use Firefox if it didn't crash 5-8 times a day. I'm using IE 8 at home and so far so good. I'm not really missing much as far as my extensions are concerned.

[t8]

That is unusual. That is not the experience of everyone else.

[Lerianis]

t8, I have to agree. That is not the experience of most everyone else who I have talked with. If you are having that many crashes with Firefox.... get out your anti-virus troubleshooting scanner, and fire it up. I think you have a virus or an extension that is making that occur.

[Dalkorian]

That is not the experience of anyone else. Your problem is either in your machine or in your claim.

[xcal78]

"That is not the experience of anyone else. Your problem is either in your machine or in your claim."

Nothing better to do then to try and assert your opinions on others uh? Brilliant!

On the flip side I've never has issues with Firefox either or heard of that kind of troubles with it.

[supoman]

Not to mention that most of the spyware and trojan horses are aimed at IE. It's a wonder that anyone wants to actually use it for web surfing Maybe on a intranet computer but not for casual browsing.

[xcal78]

Those things are aimed at the larger maretshare browser. Firefox is moving into the crosshairs more and more all the time. All browsers are godo and bad no single one out now is clearly better then the next. It's all personal choices but we all know what happend to netscape when it started doing this.

[tm_anon]

@xcal78

They're also aimed at easy distribution. With how tightly IE is integrated into a Windows system, it's extremely easy to make a trojan which can effect your entire system. There's hardly the need to write in directions to the registry since it's already gained access through IE. That, along with MS' refusal to work with generally accepted web standards makes IE the bottom of the barrel, useful only for downloading and installing a better browser.

I'm not saying it will always be like that, it's just how it currently sits.

[xcal78]

Yup, with things like online help defaulting to IE even when you have Firefix installed IE will always be the most abused browser. Also techies prefer Firefox and they are the people writting the bad stuff so targeting the browser you prefer isn't too productive. IE people are too busy fighting off the bad stuff so trying to write bad stuff back at Firefox isn't happening. LOL

[Dalkorian]

Keep convincing yourself it's all about market share xcal. We're getting a kick out of it.

[xcal78]

@Dalkorian

Do apple fan boys have split personalities or you have a mouse in your pocket? Your as good as the other apple fan boys in the thread. That's ok I love your threads a lot so I feel obligated to post in them.

[xcal78]

@Dalkorian

Feel free to argue the facts all you like. I EAGERLY await an attempt or blank silent like the other guy in the thread.

Reference:
Windows Drops Below 90% Market Share--Firefox Above 20%
http://ostatic.com/blog/windows-drops-below-90-market-share-firefox-above-20

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13554_3-10018838-33.html

Firefox's Market Share Increases, IE's Falls (FF 20.78% - IE 69.77%)
http://www.informationweek.com/news/internet/browsers/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=212201517&subSection=All+Stories

IE falls below 69% market share, Firefox climbs above 21%
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/40800/113/

[Pishkado]

The impact on MIcrosoft is not that fewer people are using its browser. They don't get any revenue from it, after all. The impact is that significant use of other browsers - any ones, or even just one other one, doesn't matter - makes it harder for them to push proprietary browser features down Web developers' throats. Developers who need to support Firefox, Safari, and probably Chrome before long have to stick pretty closely to the standards - which, in the final analysis, are enough to do anything that anyone really needs to do. That, in turn, reduces server lock-in and will thus impact sales of their server-side software.

[t8]

True.

It is good for web standards.

[cjb8465]

Unfortunately there are still some sites (often proprietary ones that big business needs) that are IE-only.

Plus, what happens when Joe CEO is looking for "the internet" and clicks on the big blue E? IT has set him up with Firefox, but IE prompts him that it is no longer his default browser.

And a new IE user is born.

[tm_anon]

How many IT departments set Firefox up on a machine? Every company computer I've ever seen or used is set up with IE only. A friend of mine has a laptop provided by her school and it too is set up with IE only, she's not allowed to install another browser and so she's stuck with it. If more IT departments would listen to those using the computers and set up a different browser on the machine there would be a much larger drop in IE users.

[jawaidbazyar]

I run an ISP, and I regularly tell our entire user base to use Firefox.

Our staff use Linux with Firefox exclusively. We develop our intranet to work with firefox and don't even bother testing it with IE. We have a few Windows boxes to run apps that are Windows-only, but that's it.

There are lots of corporations that are using Linux to varying degrees.

Oh, and I'm a "Joe CEO" and thank you very much, I use Firefox even on Windows to avoid malware that will cost me a ton of time and frustration.

But thanks for playing the stereotype game!

[MafiaPenguin]

I just deleted the IE links on my dad's desktop and he asked me if he could just use FF to browse the internet.

[xcal78]

@rapier1

Amen!

[Ted Miller]

Umm... Did everybody foget that you need IE anything to update windows and that you cannot do it with any other browser. When big brother Microsoft said they will assimilate us all, they ment it. You will use IE, You will eat IE and you will live IE, so shutup and be happy for you have no other choice!

[Tedders85]

For people with Vista or 7, you don't use IE.

[xcal78]

You don't use IE to do a windows update but you could IF you wanted too but not required. I don't get the point or the relivance of this but more power to you if you actually had a point to make there. LOL

[Renegade Knight]

There are a few programs like this. They aren't IE but require IE to run.

[SJ2571]

Windows Update? No thanks. Every update just slows my PC down even more. It's the first thing I disable when installing Windows. (No, my PC is NOT at risk either as I use ShadowUser Pro to restore my PC to the same state with every reboot, as well as Sandboxie when trialling new unknown apps. So even if something nasty does come in, it's gone when I shut down).

[pentium4forever]

To Ted Miller -- Actually you don't need IE to use windows update. Look up the Firefox extension called "IETab". It enables you to embed an IE window within FF. It obviously requires the IE engine but your basically not forced to launch IE separately.

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

Considering all iversions of IE fail the Acid 3 test miserably in comparison to every other browser out there:

http://www.sciactive.com/main/index.php?Itemid=1&id=133&option=com_content&task=view

this goes to show why IE needs to die horribly. This test tests how compliant the browser is with the published web standards. Since IE doesn't care about standards, many websites need to make many fine corrections, and adjustments that they shouldn't need to make to have their site show up correctly on IE. However, when they do this, many time it messes up the rendering on browsers that are compliant and cooperating with the good guys (e.g. Safari and Opera mostly). This isn't right. Web page programmers should start to abide by the standards strictly, with no leeway for IE anymore. I am forced to use IE 6 at work, and the Acid3 start page, not the test page, didn't even render correctly at all (which means the site is most likely strictly compliant, to hell with MS and their IE crap).

[xcal78]

There's 2 sides to this and you only see one side but that's typical. While IE "should" try to standardize why? They dominate the market so they can force all the others to conform to IE. Maybe the issue is all the other small smarket share browsers need to standarize on IE's way of doing stuff. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I've had issues with Firefix and IE personally but IE is included without any extra work so I tend to use that. If Firefox had a clear sustainable competative advantage over IE I'd switch but it's just a Netscape replacement in the fight to be #2 with IE. If Firefox offers you some kind of peace of mind over IE then by all means use it. Hopefully it will fair better then Netscape.

[dream_fly]

IE is the most compatible as most sites tend to make IE work, regardless of other "standards". Thus IE in itself is the standard.

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

@xcal78: There are 2 sides to this, the right and wrong sides. Standards exist for a reason, and stating that they are useless, which is what you are doing, is beyond ignorant. Standards exist for medical devices, construction, etc for a reason. Stating that a standard should be designed, not by function, but by the majority stakeholder is like saying "well this company sells the most pacemakers, and they work like crap and kill people, but hey, they have the majority out there so all other companies should make their's that same." Anyway, it would be difficult to emulate a pile of garbage in detail, rather than a structure.

If you opened your mind to Firefox, you would see what crap you've been using. Just read the reviews of each.

I admit I mega-loathe IE because the struggle with it at work is in complete contrast with the ease I have at home with Firefox.

BTW, competitive, not competative.

[BrandonLive]

Acid 3 is NOT a compliance test. Acid 3 is brand new, IE 8 is the first version of IE that passes Acid 2 completely. IE 8's score on Acid 3 has been steadily improving, but as I said, it is NOT a compliance test.

IE used to be the most standards compliant browser around, long ago. Then development largely stopped after the whole DOJ thing, and the standards moved on while IE stood still.

[xcal78]

Standards are only standards WHEN and *IF* all parties involved agree on them. HD and Blue Ray were both standards and guess what happend to HD? Enough said!

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

@Brandonlive: When testing to web standards, you are testing compliance with those standards and the specifications in them. This is the same thing companies who make pacemakers do, and it's called a compliance test. See here for the standards:

http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid3

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

@xcal: And again, you are incorrect. Standards are not democratically decided by the interested parties (thank god), and the BD and HD-DVD example is not right, those were internal "standards". The standards we are discussing here are defined by an oligarchy of the educated and unbiased, for example Underwriters Laboratory (UL), International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC), EN, ISO, etc, etc.

[xcal78]

My bad on starting down this road with you. After taking a moment to read your old comments I can clearly see your an Apple anti-Microsoft fan boy. I don't like fan boys of any side whether MS, Apple, IE, Firefox, Xbox, PS3, etc. as they can't get over themselves on any issue that involves their side. Enjoy your 25-30% market share browsers but remember who paids your bills and don't care what you think about it.

[xcal78]

For the others who may read this thread. HD and Blue ray ARE standards the same as OSI or 802.11g as were cd, dvd, tapes, 8 tracks, mini-discs, vhs, beta-max, etc. Feel free to follow any standard you 'FEEL' is relivent but remember in web development they are just 'recommendations' standards so you could be following a train off a dead end blindly. Other standards like 802.11g or ISO 9001 aren't a recommendation but a physical standard you need to follow to be complient with.

[xcal78]

Acid project states on it's website:

"About
Founded in 1998, The Web Standards Project (WaSP) fights for standards that reduce the cost and complexity of development while increasing the accessibility and long-term viability of any site published on the Web. We work with browser companies, authoring tool makers, and our peers to deliver the true power of standards to this medium."

"The Web Standards Project is a grassroots coalition fighting for standards which ensure simple, affordable access to web technologies for all."

Key words are: 'fighting FOR standards' so they are trying to get some that they think are good but I wouldn't use this to pass a SOX audit without having a new job lined up.

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

Also, notice the latest build of Safari gets 87/100 while IE 7 gets 12/100 on the ACID 3 test. What crap IE is. We would have possibly near 0 rendering issues on the internet if only IE could become compliant, but yet again the laziness at Microsoft leads to a dismal user experience.

[xcal78]

Give it a break and look at the bright side. That's called 'Job Security'. You get to double code stuff to make sure it looks right in all browsers. I've been doing web development since Al Gore invested it! (little humor) It's always been that way so if you think you can change it more power to you. I'd just re-focus my misplaced energy somewhere else where it might do some good instead of playing the 'poor' me (feel pity for me) card.

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

Web development for Microsoft is seems. They have their job, Al Gore has his, environmentalists have theirs, and I have mine (guess, it involves pacemakers). They (MS) aren't doing their job and the lazy punks should.

[xcal78]

Non-vendor OS related developement. ERP web stuff that needs to work on all browsers. I just don't live in fairy tale land where everything works right or the way someone wants it to do. You do what you gotta do to get the job done or you find a new line of work. No simplier way to put it. Reminds me of the Grumpy Old Men movie. LOL

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

Wow, xcal, with that mentality it's almost assured that you work for Microsoft. :"You do what you gotta do," other than the right way?? "I just don't live in fairy tale land where everything works right or the way someone wants it to do," maybe you should try using a different OS, browser, etc. You may be surprised how well the alternatives work.

[t8]

Yes Microsoft passes on unnecessary costs to Web developers. That is one reason developers, developers, developers, really hate Microsoft.

[eadeguzman]

Developers hate Microsoft? Hmm... I guess that's the reason why Apple is forced to support Windows on a Mac through bootcamp because there are more applications on the Microsoft platforms than any other platforms combined?

Its developer base is still Microsoft's strength. Without it, Microsoft would have zero market share now.

Software development is a lot more fragmented outside of the HTML.

By the way, the so-call standards that everyone is mentioning here are mostly an after-thought. The original HTML "standard" doesn't have much in it in terms of programmable objects using DHTML, etc... so Microsoft developed what had become a defacto standard (of sorts). When W3C got its act together and formed new standard, a lot of code was already out there that Microsoft had to support. For example, may people probably hate <iframe>, but it's there and many developers use it (even though W3C refuse it to be a standard)... W3C's recommendation is to use the <OBJECT> tag which is a bit clunky to use.

Now Firefox, Safari, and any browser support IFRAME -- still it's not a standard -- will fail if verified with XHTML strict. Why is it so unreasonable for w3c to support iframe? Because it's an MS standard?

[t8]

@ eadeguzman

Developers are moving away from Windows apps and toward Web 2.0 apps more and more.
It is known that Windows developers are in the decline.

[eadeguzman]

t8 - Desktop development still has its place in software development.

Yes, maybe it is obviously declining but that's a far cry from your claim that "developers really hate" Microsoft.

By the way, for Web2.0 -- how do you write the server-side components? It's either Java or .Net. .Net code is Windows development either as a server components or a UI. IIS/.Net still commands a significant install-base and shows no sign of decline.

Microsoft arguably still has best software development tools out there -- whether desktop or web development.

[abcd9009]

eadeguzman - I agree with you to a certain degree. Microsoft is to Software industry as GM is to the Auto industry and Citibank is to the financial industry. These companies just cannot fail and lets say if they do... Uncle Sam will come to the rescue because we have millions of people depending on these companies for their livelihood. Google is soon becoming that company for the Online market. As for Apple, even if it goes away (which I doubt it will at least not until Jobs is there)... there will be a few fans moaning and screaming and a few thousand people who would be out of job but that's about it... they will eventually switch to Windows and continue programming and building great apps. I bet even Apple wants Microsoft to survive because the world runs on Windows (especially the corporate world where all the real money is). To give an example... iPod was not a very profitable device which Apple realized and they were forced to release iTunes for Windows only then the sales sky rocketed. There are no products in the World that cannot run on Windows, or have some alternatives to those products which would run on Windows. On the other hand there are thousands of apps exclusively for Windows and not made for any other OS and the simple reason being economics... why make for other platforms when it's not profitable. MS has products for every possible solution you can think of (and for apps they don't have a product there's Visual Studio where you can build it yourself using wizards without knowing any programming), granted very few of MS products are worth using with the exception of MS Office which is a de facto for office apps and everyone including iWorks and Google Docs and OpenOffice and Lotus Notes and StarOffice have to support MS Office if they wanna survive. You will always see the compatibility statements in all these applications "support for Word, Excel" but it doesn't have to be the other way around. Not a single application needs to be supported by MS Office to survive.
And finally, if it wasn't for Microsoft the internet wouldn't be as popular as it is today. Google wouldn't even exist. Because to Windows popularity and the internet, we now have viruses and spywares. Not saying these are good things but without these Symantec and Mcafee and Trend Micro wouldn't be in business since antivirus is their flagship product. How many people in the world can buy a mac vs pc and how many products are available for free on a mac vs pc (not talking about quality here... it's the quantity - the cost which dictates popularity and that creates job opportunities and keeps the Global economy rolling). Now people would say you can get cheaper Linux PCs than Windows. True but not practical because where is average Joe going to learn Linux? Schools/Univ have majority of faculty trained in Windows; Corporate Workstations are Windows; Game PCs are Windows; Majority of online shoppers are surfing on Windows; net apps are created with Windows users in mind (again going back to economics and profitablity)
Having said that, I do believe in whatever goes up must come down and Microsoft will come down but at least not for the next decade or at least not until Internet gets fast enough for people to use WebOS or maybe gOS as an alternative to Windows. But until then Windows will remain the most dominant OS regardless of how good OS X or Linux gets because at the end of the day EVERYONE (including Apple and Google) have apps for Microsoft Windows and Office.

[xcal78]

"Now people would say you can get cheaper Linux PCs than Windows."

I'd challenge anyone who thinks Linux is cheaper then Windows to 'Prove it'. If they know anything about total cost of ownership Windows is the more viable OS. The costs to switch OS's, upgrade software apps, re-train users, provide extra support for users, re-train users again, etc. will be 5-10 times the cost of Windows. In the long run you'd see a ROI (Return on investment) but long term as in 10-15 years. That's assuming everything goes well and people actually like the new OS. User acceptance is a huge issue with a MAJOR switch like OS's. If you can't get the users to accept the new system it fails. This is all basic project management/business and can found with a 30 second Google search if anyone wants examples or references to these terms and their uses.

[Inconnux]

After I was hit with an IE exploit and it infected my whole system I stopped using it. Pure idiocy tied the browser to the OS. I now use Firefox for 99% of my browsing and only use IE when absolutely forced to.
I tried Chrome but found it to be a horrible browser with very limited functionality.

[BrandonLive]

So you also think it's idiocy that Mac OS includes Safari, or that Ubuntu includes Firefox?

If the OS didn't include a browser, how would you download Firefox? Have you thought about how much the PC software ecosystem would suffer if the OS didn't include an HTML rendering engine that apps could reuse?

[t8]

To the comment above.

Other Os's do not bundle a browser at kernel level, they come bundled as applications.

That is why other browsers are safer to use.

[Lerianis]

Unfortunately..... t8 has a point here. It was an EXTREMELY bad idea to tie IE so..... inextricably into the system, to be mild about how hard it is to remove even for Microsoft guys.
IE should have been decoupled from inside the OS YEARS ago, back when Windows 95 came out and there was howling about how it was totally unremovable and insecure. Why Microsoft didn't do it at that time... I really can't understand or explain, even as a 'Microsoft guy!'

[ppsm]

What about Flock? A terrific browser for social media organizing social media. And it never freezes. Unfortunately it has a bug that keeps from accessing google docs and google calandar. IE 8 is a mess. Loads of errors and freezes with it. It barely functions.

[Lerianis]

IE8 doesn't freeze very often for me unless you are going to a site that tries to 'get around' it's inbuilt protections. Newsweek freezes in IE8, but that's because they are being 'smart' (not!) with Javascript and IE8 doesn't like that.

[aka_tripleB]

How much of the Safari increase is due to Apple including it in updates for its other software?

[shootthecops]

well, thats apple for you!

i'll stick to firefox, you never know what apple is scheming...

[seven7dust]

safari on windows has almost 0% market-share
it's a shame considering it's fast and easy to use
it's especially great for bookmarking
the 3 types of bookmarks implementation is genius
also the autocomplete implementation is the best IMO
it's like they read my mind when they created it

believe it or not it was Safari that got my
attention towards Macs in general
So basically I switched because of the safari update
{not the only reason ,vista also played a big part}
kinda crazy of apple to push it via itunes
but hey watever works

[divide_by_zero]

I still use ViolaWWW.

[bmallek]

Is it really any surprise or wonder as bad as Microsft's program is.

[albertsoler]

Does anyone know what percentage of the Safari increase is due to iPhone and iPod touch?

It would only be natural for the Safari numbers to jump significantly since the launch of those two products. I personally use Safari on my iPod touch, with its limitations, since I have little choice.

BTW: The iPhone is a waste of money -- but the touch is cool.

When I update iTunes, (on my PC -- Yikes!), I usually uncheck the Safari option. I bet most PC people with iTunes don't even know that Safari installs by default. But, I doubt those unused Safaris are being counted in the statistics.

Firefox still works for me. It's far from perfect. But, I don't like the other choices for various reasons:

IE -> ActiveX -- Nuff said.
Opera -> Who uses Opera?
Chrome -> How much collected information is too much information? Google has gotten way too big for its britches.
Any other browser -> (See Opera above)

[seven7dust]

mobile safari doesn't feature in this list
but there's more info here
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10

the ipod touch OS internet share is 0.11
and the iphone is 0.48

note how other phone OSes have such low shares
shows you that all the ******* about the IPhone was lies
the IPhone outnumbers all the others combined easiy
and it has half that of linux
other than Iphone users it seems nobody else seems to bother with surfing
on their phones
even the ipod touch has more share than android,winmo & symbian etc
and blackberry doesn't even make the list meaning it's lower than even PSP
thats seriously the biggest insult ever

[Le_Croix]

well, i use Opera. all of my friends use Opera (i made them realise why they should). i switched to Opera with 8.0 version and never looked back since. first browser with tabbing and speed dial. it has a mail client built in (better to have one application open than two). i tried every browser. EVERY ONE OF THEM. none was at the same level. i just have a smile upon my face just thinking about sensless arguments over FF vs IE. Opera is faster and safer than both of them. and that's more than enough for me

[cipote10]

As a web designer, I'm THRILLED to see this trend. IE is a major headache when it comes to CSS. Get rid of it already!

[pretenderkc]

got to put in my 2 cents here.
best response i read are XCAL and EAGEGUZMAN.

for folks who can't seem to understand about standard, think about metric and English unit system.
the world is mostly metric system.
only a few countries, including the U.S., are still using the English system.

think about English unit is IE.
other browser is metric.
anyone who went thru engineering school will admit that metric is a better system.
easier to calculate.
easier to remember.
so, why doesn't the U.S. change its system to comply with the world, METRIC?
same answer as the web browser.
and that answer as GUZMAN explained.

bottom line.
the programmers decide who lives or dies.
i programmed some stuff to play WMV clip and allows it to go fullscreen.
Microsoft got a full doc and a working sample.
can't find the doc to make it work with any other browser.
solution?
use Flash.
problem with Flash is that it requires multiple conversion process from the NLE (non-linear editng) software.
that means, to make it Flash compatible, i have to spend about 12 hours for a 20 minutes source clip for HD source.
NLE can output WMV and web ready in 2 hours for the same material and source length.


obviously, i ain't gonna spend 12 hours making Flash-friendly clip for a 20 minutes view length.
so, WMV is the choice.
and for those people who refused to use IE, they can view our video clip but can't enjoy the fullscreen HD via the web!!

[t8]

Correct that is 2 cents worth.

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

Coming from someone who uses standards everyday, you do not know what a standard is. You are describing a unit SYSTEM, it is technically not a standard. Just like the girl above tried claiming BD and HD-DVD are standards, they are techinically Device Design Requirements, that were agreed upon by several invested corps. A standard is a list of specifications and tests for determining compliance. Acid 3 is a type of test of web standards, although not all, and is a method for testing general compliance. For example, the standard I use often is (International Electrontechnical Commisssion) IEC 60601-1 "Medical Electrical Equipment: General requirements for basic safety and essential performance." The webstandards described here (see link above) were decided on by groups of web developers from several organizations, including Microsoft, that work together to form a consensus for developement and effectiveness in an INTERNATIONAL forum. Standards are not decided by interested parties, although they may provide input, and require tests to determine compliance. Standards bring unity and simplicity to the increasing complex world we live in, and should be embraced. Those who don't cooperate will not survive.

[ausernamenoonehaschosen]

To be clear, Standards can not be decided by invested parties, and must be decided by an internationally accepted forum. The affected parties may provide input, but that is all. For example, the new minidisplay port is not a standard, although an international forum may take it, and build a standard for it (that must include tests AND design requirements). And Apple may try to put one out there on their own for it, but this would not be a standard.

[xcal78]

"Standards can not be decided by invested parties"

Remember ausernamenoonehaschosen like to use Acid who then picks and chooses which 'recommended' standards it will use to benefit itself. Sounds like a religion or cult to me. Pick what rules you like and don't pick the ones you don't like. Make it into exactly what you want not what it really is.

[xcal78]

Standard: something set up and established by authority as a rule for the measure of quantity, weight, extent, value, or quality

[xcal78]

"The metric system was first proposed in 1791. It was adopted by the French revolutionary assembly in 1795, and the first metric standards (a standard meter bar and kilogram bar) were adopted in 1799."

Yea the unit of measurements are standards either. We all just guess what 1 liter is or 1 cup. Who needs a stadard to tell us what that should be. We'll just make it up! I could go on for hours here with references for days but it's time for breakfast.

[xcal78]

@ausernamenoonehaschosen

Prove your claims. I want references & links. Show us your infinite wisdom so that we all might be enlighted by it.

[xcal78]

"For example, the new minidisplay port is not a standard"
____________________________________________________________
"On January 13, 2009, VESA announced that Mini DisplayPort would be included in the upcoming DisplayPort 1.2 specification."

"VESA (Video Electronics Standards Association) is an international standards body for computer graphics founded in the late 1980s by NEC Home Electronics and eight other video display adapter manufacturers."

[xcal78]

"Coming from someone who uses standards everyday, you do not know what a standard is."

Pot calling kettle black! Daily use of standards who doesn't understand what a standard is clearly. In all fairness I bet you do use standards daily but cherry picking only the ones you like that suit you. Do you have the man hood to admit defeat or just spew more trash?

[WulfTheSaxon]

@xcal78

Seriously? Are you arguing just for the sake of argument or do you actually believe that drivel? The W3C is an international open standards body set up by the guy that invented HTML in the first place. Microsoft is a paying member (like all other major browser vendors). How can you say that the flawed way in which IE behaves is a "standard" when Microsoft publicly acknowledges that they strive for compliance with the standards /they help craft/ at the W3C? If you want more proof, just take a look at all the sites that were "broken" when IE 7 came out with its better standards-compliance.


@ausernamenoonehaschosen

Try to look past xcal78's fundamental misunderstanding of the semantics behind the word "standard", and the difference between a standard and a de facto standard (a difference clearly delineated even in Microsoft's Encarta encyclopedia). He's just a troll -- he can't help it ;)

[ploneglenn]

The stats on my own sites show IE as a lot lower. On http://www.dynamicalsoftware.com IE has only 19.3% and FF has 62.28% (chrome has 6.58%). On http://www.code-roller.com IE has 32.7% and FF has 62.8%.

[xcal78]

I bet Slashdot is higher on FF then IE too. Techie websites will be higher in FF then IE as it's the techie preferred choice browser. Unfortunetly they make up a few percent of the browser population. You need a global scope as this article has not just a few isolated websites to judge something by.