Comments on: Microsoft's Silverlight: Yes, we can

The browser plug-in has been tapped to enable live and on-demand video streaming of Tuesday's inauguration events on the Presidential Inaugural Committee Web site.

[shootthecops]

yes we can, take those payoffs baby!

can you think of any reasons to pick silverlight over flash here? i bet microsoft can come up with a few, meanwhile it's competitors are being locked out.

[chadcampbell]

Silverlight is far superior to Flash when it comes to online video. Silverlight offers a more complete end-to-end media solution. For instance, PlayReady, which is part of Silverlight, enables content protection scenarios not available on other platforms. In addition, Silverlight natively supports the the VC-1 format which is backed by all major movie studios. That's probably why both Netflix and Blockbuster are using it.

SIlverlight also enables developers to create rich web applications using standardized languages such as C#. ActionScript is not a standard langauge.

Silverlight also significantly outperforms Flash: http://www.bubblemark.com/

On a personal note, after enduring the Flash NFL experience for less than one quarter this year, and comparing it to Silverlight's use in the Olympics, its pretty clear which is undoubtedly better (Silverlight).

[wizlb]

Yes. As a developer, Silverlight is much more appealing than Flash. First of all, I get a real programming language (C#) instead of a scripting language (Actionscript). Second of all, Microsoft caters to developers much, much better than Adobe does.

[shootthecops]

i wasnt arguing about the technical specifications of silverlight, only to point out that the advantages of flash offer nothing worthwhile here

are you going to DRM a presidential inauguration? what a joke! only microsoft would consider such a thing!

[Mr. Dee]

Shutup shootthecops, you asked why they would pick SL over Flash and you got answers.

[samkass]

chadcampbell, VC-1 is not actually backed by all major movie studios. It's one of the two formats of Blu-Ray. The other one is MPEG4/AAC (h.264), which is the next-gen format that most of the studios are actually using in Blu-Ray discs.

Flash, as can be seen by YouTube's new higher-definition content, supports h.264, so the VC-1 argument is weak. The development environment argument is interesting but irrelevant to me as a customer. All I see as a customer is a format that's incompatible with many popular systems and ships with almost no browsers.

[BigGuns149]

@ chadcampbell:

Anything that a government official says is public domain so copy protection is pretty much pointless. Unless one networks cameras have some special unqiue angle that is worth paying extra for most people aren't going to even care if somebody reuses their video feed because big events like this generally don't directly make the networks money. Anyone going back for a historical article of the event is just going to take the public domain videos/images and going to bypass paying royalties unless there is a compelling reason to use another source.

Technically speaking I haven't seen much advantage to VC-1 over H.264. The last I check H.264 is an ISO standard and VC-1 is NOT. Since Flash still has better market penetratration and supports H.264

BTW, the benchmarks you refer AFAIKT don't refer to video performance of said environment at all, which is what is in question. I my informal experiments I haven't found a lot of compelling evidence to show Silverlight provides an clear benefit to end users.

Why would one want hit less people unless there was a clear compelling argument?

[shootthecops]

i still havent got any good reasons to use it for this broadcast!

[kenpm]

shootthecops: Obviously you didn't watch any of the DNC convention coverage over the internet or you wouldn't be asking that question. The quality of the video using Silverlight is far superior to anything that Flash can offer. Flash is playing catch up to Silverlight at the moment.

PS: What kind of lowlife calls themself "shootthecops"??

[aka_tripleB]

Regardless of why it was actually picked, at least Silverlight isn't likely to crash your machine. I couldn't tell you how many times Flash has crashed, but I've yet to have Silverlight to crash once.

[pithenumber]

The end user won't see much difference, as a developer, I like using a language I'm already used to.

[Splashes]

Flash doesn't thrill me, but it galls me that Microsoft can so blatantly bribe its way into a market.

[JasonCe]

what makes you say they bribe? what proof do you have?

when microsoft loses a business deal, it is called open market. when they win, it is called bribing. nice. i wonder if you would say the same thing flash was used for broadcasting of this event.

[Splashes]

No proof. Just common sense. "Let's see, we of the PIC want as many people to see the inauguration online as possible. Which should we choose -- Flash, with 95%+ penetration, or Silverlight, with, uh, not sure, but Microsoft claims 25%. Hmmm. Hey, I've got a great idea! Let's go with Silverlight! It just makes more sense!"

Yeah, I'm sure that's the way it happened.

Regarding the language of "bribes vs. deals," I'll admit to a personal double-standard, but Microsoft has earned it by championing mediocrity for so long. They wouldn't know innovation if it bit them in the Ballmer.

[tm_anon]

Does MS even make a player capable of supporting more platforms than just Windows? I've been keeping away from MS tech for so long I really don't know. I can see why keeping away from Flash video is a good thing just because of the associated security problems, meaning someone could hack the stream and replace the inaugaration with porn but switching to Silverlight? Does MS even use Silverlight on any of its main sites yet or are they still using Flash? What we need is a truly cross platform, open source technology since those actually give the same performance across the board and are, at least from what I'm seeing, much more secure.

[Splashes]

"What we need is a truly cross platform, open source technology since those actually give the same performance across the board and are, at least from what I'm seeing, much more secure."

I agree with the need -- Flash is a dinosaur, and Microsoft's own history tells us that if they actually achieved dominant market share with Silverlight, they'd immediately (1) abuse their power and (2) let the Silverlight tech atrophy.

But "same performance across the board" is a pipe dream, whether "cross platform, open source technology" or not. Not a single example exists today -- at least not anything half as complex as a Flash replacement.

[Seaspray0]

@splashes. You have no proof, but yet you make alot of negative accusations. That makes you a troll.

[J. Blow]

If in fact they did pay for the opportunity it isn't a "bribe" as you so foolishly state. It is common to pay to help get established in a market. That midigates the risk, either real or percieved for the customer, and helps speed up the process for the company that's trying to get it's technology established.

Adobe did the same thing.

[malu05]

I have only twice been asked to download Silverlight. And that was on sites registered to Microsoft.
Maybe they have forces a few people to install it, and 30% is quite nice, but it seems like "the web" does not take on Silverlight as Microsoft would want it to.

[Splashes]

Note that in the above article, Microsoft claims "the Olympics helped boost Silverlight's U.S. penetration by 30 percent." That means an increase of 30% over what it was prior to the Olympics. That doesn't mean their penetration is 30 percent of the market.

As an example, if their penetration before the Olympics was 15%, their penetration after the Olympics would be approx. 20%.

[wizlb]

Rome wasn't built in a day. Flash didn't start out with a high percentage of users either.

[b3nw]

hulu.com is also streaming it live

[lkrupp]

"Regarding the language of "bribes vs. deals," I'll admit to a personal double-standard, but Microsoft has earned it by championing mediocrity for so long. They wouldn't know innovation if it bit them in the Ballmer."

After he's kicked out of the governors's office in a couple of days Rod Blagojevich is going to work for Ballmer in the pay-to-play division of Microsoft. Then we'll see Silverlight's market share really take off. Mark my words.

[chrisfrary]

There are several other sites streaming it in Flash for those who are interested...
http://newteevee.com/2009/01/14/where-to-watch-obamas-inauguration-online/

[cb3431]

Maybe Silverlight was chosen over Flash because the decision makers have seen how much Flash sucks on CBS, ABC, and NBC.

I've developed using Flash and Silverlight. Silverlight is pleasant and enjoyable, Flash is not.

[shootthecops]

every one of your comments seems to bash FireFox, Google, Apple and praise Microsoft. remember that when Microsoft pays you to post on this website, you should get a new profile from time-to-time, so it's not so blatantly obvious.

[Splashes]

Pleasant and enjoyable it may be. But as a commenter noted on Slashdot back in March '08 (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=479520&cid=22675926):

"Don't kid yourself - the reasoning behind Silverlight has nothing to do with Microsoft striving to make the Web a better place. It's all about gaining more control of a medium they never had much to say with (apart from the dominance of the IE, which is now being chewed at by Mozilla/Firefox)"

Need I mention what Microsoft did with their IE dominance? Stagnation. There's no reason to believe they wouldn't do the same with Silverlight, because they (Ballmer especially) have repeatedly demonstrated their only commitment is to short-term profits. But you're more than welcome to drink the pleasant and enjoyable Kool-Aid.

[Jeff Putz]

Oh, well if it was on Slashdot, it was obviously a credible opinion.

As a .NET developer since the beginning (late '01 for beta), I was thrilled when Silverlight 2 finally shipped because it finally gave people with my skillset a rich platform to work with inside the browser. It really grew in the opposite manner from Flash. While Flash was originally designed as an animation tool with programmability added later, Silverlight was built from the start as something UI driven that happens to do animation. For that reason, I sometimes have a hard time comparing it to Flash.

My point is that it's silly to argue it was created for world domination. It was the next logical extension for the .NET Framework.

[kenpm]

Splashes: You don't understand what Silverlight. It's a development platform, not a product like IE. Silverlight will only stagnate if developers stop developing for it. Considering that it is a cross-platform implementation of the .NET Framework, that it is not going to happen any time soon. Unlike Java or Flash, developers can use any .NET-compatible language they like to create .NET apps and with Silverlight 2 they will run on Windows and Mac, and soon on Linux.

[AlejoHausner]

Well, look on the bright side. Since few people have silverlight installed, few people will have to watch the inaugural hype. Ok, so he's a smooth talker, and the first Kenyan-Kansan-Hawaiian-Illinoian elected president. But he's just a human being, behind all the hype. I thought that techies were too cynical to fall for all the propaganda. I guessed wrong.

Alejo

[GOoD_dEVIL]

Next time I'm voting for a printing press operator - maintenance man for President, who will keep the federal reserve printing presses in tip-top running condition.

[Seaspray0]

Flash is used on utube with few complaints. Silverlight did the olympics with few complaints. From the endpoint user perspective, the people have pretty much made up their mind.... that they don't care which one is used as long as they can get their videos. So for those of you squabling about which one you'd rather have... well, you can watch it on the one you want because the rest of us don't care what you'd rather use. Now that's beautiful.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Silverlight was great during the Olympics...should be even better on Tuesday ;) MSFT Market Cap going way up , while Apple drops like a cancerous turd ;)

[ZetaZeta_]

Where the heck did Apple come from, besides your username and obvious bias?

[dbargen]

Yet another reason not to want to see the immaculation.

Thanks MS- now all of the swooners out there will have even more crapware bogging down there browsers from that day onward.

It's a rather appropriate parallel to start off the term of the next POTUS- what looked oh-so-good for many at the beginning will bite them in the ass down the line, calling for "fixes" that exacerbate the problem.

Just lovely.

[3rdalbum]

Flash: Available for Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD (through emulation) and multiple embedded platforms. Rock-solid Linux 64-bit beta version available, other 64-bit platforms coming soon.

Silverlight: Full version available for Windows. Partly-crippled version available for OS X. Non-functional version available for Linux. No 64-bit support.

[FreddieT]

Finally! I was getting depressed reading all the comments without any mention of *NIX platforms. As a Linux user, I have no choice but to stay with Flash. I would love to try the Linux version of Silverlight if Microsoft ever came up with it, but that would certainly be a dream (or a nightmare, depending upon who you talk to).

[ZetaZeta_]

Considering the Linux version of Silverlight is the open source project Moonlight, I would have thought linux users would have had some soft spot in their hearts for it. Guess not.

[MSSlayer]

moonlight, and by extension mono is nothing but a patent trap.

The mono developers are complicit in trying to help bring down Linux.

Not too many linux users and developers like mono.

[wizlb]

@MSSlayer That's ********. But it doesn't even matter because nobody cares about you or anyone who holds your so called "values". You're just a very loud albeit very SMALL minority. So ****.

[massfat]

How long as Silverlight been out? Seriously, it takes time, and they're just starting up. Besides, Silverlight is a platform whereas Flash was originally made for animations. Plus, the open source project Moonlight is going to provide Silverlight functionality for Linux, so they're working on it, even if it's not quite there yet. Flash was the better tool before Silverlight came along. It might still be because of the dominance it has. However, Silverlight can improve as they work on various projects for cross platform functionality.

[EcuadorHomesOnline]

I watched a bunch of videos during the Olympics, mostly sporting events that weren't shown on network TV, and was exceedingly impressed with the quality. There were a lot of nice features, like "picture in picture" as well. Kudos to Microsoft for such a cool technology!

[scdecade]

People are criticizing MS for making a payoff?!? Why? Why not blame the PIC and the Obama people? Offering a bribe isn't the greatest act of virtue but accepting one is a hundred million times worse. O well, I guess change you can believe in looks identical to business as usual...

Silverlight is impressive. C# is the most modern programming language available. I guess people have a problem with more choice. I've read interviews with the Adobe management and they know they've got a problem with Silverlight. Long run it's tough to see how they're going to compete because if they try to go feature-for-feature against Silverlight they run up against .NET. They've got zero hope of competing in that arena.

[odaynasser]

Windows 7 Facebook Fan Page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Microsoft-Windows-7/39012423321

[ancalimar]

Why does everyone despise Microsoft so much? Microsoft is a company, not a non-profit. Most of the complaints I've heard about it seem to deal more with the perceived fear of market dominance than anything relating to product quality. And I do not understand anyone who says Microsoft doesn't innovate. Microsoft does nothing BUT innovate, and if you look at touch technology, digital mapping, medical software, programming frameworks, or even UI development, you would quickly realize how wrong you are. Just because IE stagnated, don't assume every other product did as well.

I've downloaded the Silverlight plugin, and I have no problem keeping it installed. If it were error-prone or insecure, I'd remove it immediately. But frankly, it works fine, and if it provides me a more robust experience on the web, and more companies or organizations use it, I'll keep using it as well.

It's just a company, people. If you hate it so much, make a better product -- not similar, not more free, but better -- and market the hell out of it.

[gabeheim]

Why does everyone despise the mob so much, going after it? They're a business, and not non-profit. So what if they have to get dirty doing their business? Ok, j/k, but in all seriousness, because its going to take 20 years of MS behaving well before anyone trusts them. Just read their history, particularly regarding the web and competing technologies. MS always supplants every technology with their own version, rather than working together to make a decent or good technology better. The often break that competing technology as well (embrace and extend, or even break).

[MSSlayer]

30 years of theft, and other assorted law breaking, incompetence, bloatware, etc, etc tends to not make many friends.

[wizlb]

Microsoft revolutionized the software industry. OSS is tearing it apart. So **** off, OSS fanboys.

[massfat]

This is RIDICULOUS!!! Why work on a competitor's technology? Are you brain dead? Microsoft doesn't comply, because it wants to make its own stuff, because it thinks its better! Never mind if it really is better or not (in many cases, some products are just horrible), that;s the way of business. They are making their own products that compete, and if they win, well they won with their own products! It's not law and neither is it RIGHT to improve on whatever technology is already there. I want new technologies developed as soon as possible, if it'll help.

[perspectoff]

Silverlight is nice technology, and allows DRM, which is necessary.

The problem is when Microsoft restricts its technology to Windows.

It hasn't done that, yet (Silverlight is available for Mac OS X and a version, called Moonlight, is being developed and improved for Linux by Novell, with Microsoft approval (using the Mono platform for .NET compatibility)).

So far, Microsoft is playing fair on this one. But Microsoft has been a sneaky, anti-competitive company in the past, so this effort bears watching.

[MSSlayer]

DRM is not necessary. Not ever.

It doesn't actually work either.

[rapier1]

While I am not a fan of DRM I would have to argue that many content providers feel it is necessary. If people respected copyright a bit more then it might not be needed... but people don't respect copyright.

[wizlb]

"The problem is when Microsoft restricts its technology to Windows."

So? Why should they support other platforms? So that a very small minority can be happy? Most software is only for Windows, so get used to it because it's not going to change anytime soon.

[wizlb]

"The problem is when Microsoft restricts its technology to Windows."

So? Why should they support other platforms? So that a very small minority can be happy? Most software is only for Windows, so get used to it because it's not going to change anytime soon.

Even Google releases all of it's software first for the number one operating system: Windows. Get over yourself.

[massfat]

While I believe that it is right to support other platforms, Microsoft has no obligation to do so, nor is it always seen as right by everyone. In fact, I could claim that supporting other platforms and not your own is contradictory and therefore saying that your own product is redundant. But I won't say that, because support other platforms does have its merits, and it's up to Microsoft to choose whether it'll help customers. In this case, cross platform functionality will undoubted help, and that's why they've taken this step. It really isn't a problem to not support other platforms. All you have to do, is switch if you want the functionality. Otherwise, don't complain (not directed at you).

[bsaitz]

great innovation in buying share...

[MSSlayer]

Bad move simply because they are cutting off a huge percentage of potential viewers.

So much for being all-inclusive.

Just wait, in a few months we will find out that MS set all this up for them for free in exchange for the new administration keeping the policies in place that allows MS to do whatever they want.

[wizlb]

OMG, you're so right. There are so many Linux desktop users...that's HUGE.

Oh btw, could you just cry some more for me? Waaaaaaah.

[Squashman2]

I recently got a Netflix account I am certainly not to impressed with SilverLight application used to Stream movies.

[wizlb]

Great story. Is it true?