Comments on: Want top search results? Tread carefully

In the business of promoting Web sites to top search results, some push limits to find what tricks are allowed. But there's evidence the trade is getting more respectable.

[inachu]

I got out of the SEO game in mid 1990's due to black hats destroying the fun in getting a site up properly on a search engine. It's a DOG EAT DOG world out there esp when it comes to visa and passport. I call it SEO burnout.

[Sandra_Kerns]

Why bother with the Dog and pony show that is getting ranked under Google when there is a much better search engine alternative.
It is [Editor's note: Link deleted]
where the search results are ranked by the knowledge of the people, aka wisdom of the crowds, that is YOU and me. Check them out and you will see what I mean.

[t8]

That search engine is way too slow and the results are completely irrelevant.

[badasscat]

It's funny to see people comment spamming an article about black-hat SEO techniques :)

Anyway, I don't know why some people seem to lack basic common sense. There's no "grey area" in SEO. Paid links are a no-no. That's it. And that's what this entire article comes down to.

This is a case where a certain group of people is trying to make a simple issue a lot more complicated than it is in order to try to rationalize their unethical practices. If you make it sound too complicated for any average person to figure out, then it doesn't sound like they're doing anything wrong.

But it is not that complicated.

[JeromeLapointe]

Really Sandra? Search for "Online Dating" on that SE...
You get results that look exactly like a spammed search engine.
http://www.gayonlinedatingservice.com/
http://www.jewishonlinedatingservices.com/
http://www.christianonlinedatingservices.com/
http://www.freeonlinedatingpersonals.com/
...

All of which have the title "Singles Online Dating Services"
None of which point to a real webpage (but a registrar's default page)

That is just ridiculous... no decent search engine should ever index a registrar's stand-in page.

[inachu]

I agree and wish I could help google weeding out the bad guys. I would be pretty militant against them

[bridge solution]

that search engine i about...3 months old?
when yhoo was about 2 years old it suggested to me, after analysing my reading habits thru an in depth questionaiire that i would surely wish to read the journal of the danish girl scouts.
the difference with sandra's little blurb...which is nottt link spamming at alllll..imho...is that gooogle pays nothing to people for volunteering information to them. neither does FaceBook. neither does MySpace. some people think that is rather black hat. in fact, it is the essence of black hat economics.
gooogle curretly has the ability to share revenue with those who visit webpages...not those wh publish them. Watch them choke if it is suggested to them that they owe people who give them their actual revenue source, and then comment about what is ethical or not.

[bridge solution]

that search engine i about...3 months old?
when yhoo was about 2 years old it suggested to me, after analysing my reading habits thru an in depth questionaiire that i would surely wish to read the journal of the danish girl scouts.
the difference with sandra's little blurb...which is nottt link spamming at alllll..imho...is that gooogle pays nothing to people for volunteering information to them. neither does FaceBook. neither does MySpace. some people think that is rather black hat. in fact, it is the essence of black hat economics.
gooogle curretly has the ability to share revenue with those who visit webpages...not those wh publish them. Watch them choke if it is suggested to them that they owe people who give them their actual revenue source, and then comment about what is ethical or not.
and...btw, all those registrar pages?? that's a technique the registrar stole from black hat marketers...whch, now that it is the registars doing it is so ethical its called default...

[GabGoldenberg]

You're right that Cuil showing those results isn't terribly impressive, and points to problems with their algorithms' filters. That being said, Cuil is hardly alone. Google, Yahoo and MSN all index parking pages, or what you refer to as 'stand-in' pages. Here's one obvious search: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22sponsored+listings%22+%22welcome+to%22+%22related+searches%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a . In fact, Google has indexed at least two of the sites you've highlighted. For example:: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&suggon=0&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Ygr&q=site%3Afreeonlinedatingpersonals.com&btnG=Search.

[dustysage]

The effect of Google on a site is profound. And, often, there is little way for a web master to know what it was that caused Google to drop their page rank.

For example, I run a very large and popular fan site. We had top Google ranks for years. Then one day our rank dropped to nearly nothing. I have written Google with no response and have tried for almost a year to figure out what caused the sudden change. To no avail. I have more traffic than ever, but not the page rank to show for it.

I do NOT buy links or even advertise. It is very frustrating. And because Google is essentially a monopoly (none of the other search engines really matter) they can do whatever they want and fail to communicate with the people who's businesses are on the line.

This is not the way the modern web should work!

[Michichael]

Hey, at least the finally stopped suggesting my name as "McMichael"

Google *is* a powerful tool. Ever since they properly indexed my site I've been getting a nice stream of visitors... and I don't even have any real content there yet. It's given me the drive to put more content there.

[bridge solution]

The hidden idea inside the google game is that they are the decider of morality.
This is much like FaceBook's decision, which is being screamed about, to have what other say about u be as prominent as what u say about yourself, in fact, more so.
There is validity to AdSense pages having content that relates to the ads placed there. There is legitimacy, as google defends itelf from msft and yhoo for wanting people to get what they want from visiting a web page.
the illegitimacy comes from google deciding it is the sole judge of what people want.
from deciding that trading links with an old fraternity buddy is ethical, but people shopping for them is not.
it's efforts to be the arbiter of what is "white hat" is a thin disguise for a new aristocracy forcing itself onto the consciousness of the world.

[doug_heil]

Hi Stephen, Some of the responses you received are very biased. Matt Cutts told you correctly as the guidelines are very clear as to what is spam and what is not. If you ask "link people" of course they will tell you it's all about links, and will tell you that there are gray areas.

[GabGoldenberg]

Also, to Matt Cutts' point, "Google is good at detecting machine-generated spam, so we don't see much of that these days," just search for keywords in a spam-dominated market. E.g. Google "Buy Viagra". When you see colleges showing up, click on those and get redirected to some online pharmacy, that's because doorway pages still work.

[GabGoldenberg]

Also, speaking of SEO, this page is also viewable at http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10034107-93.html?tag=newsLeadStoriesArea.0 - might want to redirect to just .html once your web analytics capture the tag info. Otherwise people might link to the ?tag version and you'll end up with duplicate content/canonicalization issues where you split your PageRank between two version of the same page, and neither version ranks at the top.

[BannerPilot]

@ dustysage
PR is worthless. If you have more traffic than ever, PR doesn't matter at all. I think I speak for most SEO's when I say I hope that it disappears forever.

[SEOMagix]

I think Grey Hat SEO is something every SEO company tries to do...searching for the boundaries of Google. Linking is the most important thing to do to get the top results .
PR is something that will change in the future i think...it's the most inconsistence number there is

[matchmate]

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[matchmate]

deffinetely we need cleant search result