Comments on: EFF urges judge to dismiss MySpace case

The Electronic Frontier Foundation said in a release Monday that "charges for a terms of service violation" will turn millions of Americans into criminals.

[Pete Bardo]

Ok, so I can ignore those "terms of service" agreements now, or do I have to wait? And, speaking of turning "millions of Americans into criminals," that's nothing new for this administration or those preceding. Isn't that what prohibition did? Isn't that what the controlled substance act did? Isn't that what we always do? Hey, we already have a couple million people in jail here, what's a few more? Drew's actions were despicable, but it looks like we'll have to let her maker be the final judge.

[aka_tripleB]

I think using child preditor laws would work better and would provide a better punishment than using CFAA.

[gerrrg]

EFF has it half right. The defendant should be prosecuted for identity theft, instead.

[wjsteele]

Identity theft of who? She made up the character "Josh." There was no crime committed here... simply a term of service violation, which is a civil matter.

[disco-legend-zeke]

As a direct result of drew's actions, the kid killed herself!

If the underlying crime is a felony, that would make drew guilty of murder one.

[Michichael]

Yeah, but violating ToS? Come on, that's a flimsy argument. Get a better one.

[ackwell2009]

What Drew did was not covered by any other law. State laws were not violated and neither were federal laws. Identity theft? That involves stealing a REAL person's ID, not a pseudo fake identity. If no laws were knowingly violated, the case should be dismissed. Misusing statues to nail someone to the wall is WRONG. She's not a hacker and that charge should be dismissed ASAP. I feel she did a VERY dumb thing with the lengths she went to, to harrass the girl. If she's guilty of anything, it's harrassment. However, no laws either federally or state were on the books when this incident occured. Child predator laws don't apply here, because she was not trying to harm ,kidnap, or molest a child, It's harrassment plain and simple. Conspiracy to commit suicide is also IMo, a bad charge. If someone down the street verbally harrasses me and I go and shoot myself, how can it be proven it was from that? Chances are I had a screw loose or had mental issues to start with. I'm all for going after people for online bullying/harrassment. But calling in essence a killer and or hacker is a big stretch.

[ajbright]

The defendant shouldn't be charged with either, as neither law fit what she did. She didn't steal anyone's identity. She made one up. She didn't hack into a computer, or access one illegally.

What she did was harassment at best, manslaughter at worst. What I don't understand is why they're going after her with these technical laws. If what she did was cause the death of another person, it doesn't matter what tools she used to do it, she caused the death. If I harass someone with a phone and they commit suicide, I'm guilty of manslaughter. If I chase someone in a car and they crash and die, I've committed manslaughter. With manslaughter you aren't saying someone was killed in cold blood, you're saying a person died as a result of your actions, and you pay the penalty even if you didn't intend that person to die. The classic is killing a passenger while drunk.

As for breaking terms and conditions, that's at best a civil offense, if any offense at all. Terms and conditions exist for you to use a website or a piece of software. You break them, the company involved has the right to terminate your account and stop your use of their software and hardware. That's it. In fact most TOS agreements violate laws themselves.

No one is going to prison for breaking TOS. Deliberately harassing someone is a crime, causing them to commit suicide through that harassment is also a crime. That seems to be enough.

[ackwell2009]

Well, they are going after her with charges that generally only apply to people who illegally access a computer. TOS is not law. Basically, if they find info you give them to be false, they can restrict your access. I don't see how one could be legally charged with an unlawful hacking statute when all she did was create a bogus account. That's where my main problem lies. The conspiracy charge is very sketchy. If I call someone a name and they are so weak as to commit suicide, I don't see how that could be proven to be the cause of death. I understand people get very emotional when things like this happen. But laws should be emotionless. To make up a secondary charge in case the first one doesn't stick, I feel is wrong. People like this should be punished and when the states and the Feds update their harrassment laws to reflect online use, they will.

[SeizeCTRL]

I think the EFF should release this mom's personal contact info all over the net so we can harass her... oh the irony if we could annoy her to the point of suicide. That would be JUSTICE!

[The_Decider]

And that makes you better than her?

[Lerianis]

The biggest problem I have here is that they are automatically making a connection between the girl in question being 'harassed' and then killing herself.
The fact is that this girl was KNOWN to have mental problems (probably from a too-conservative upbringing, where she was sheltered from everything since she was VERY young) and she was allowed by her parents to be on the internet..... which is not the most......... feelings-aware thing on the planet.
If anyone should be going to prison, I have to say it is this girl's parents..... why? Because they let this girl on the internet KNOWING she had mental problems and didn't monitor her online life, like I did with my daughters until they were 13.

[wzrobin]

You probably should research the case a little more. From what I've read they actually tried pretty hard to monitor her internet usage.

And the actions of the so called adults on the other side of the situation were simply stunning, intentionally emotionally setting up a teenage girl and then ridiculing and harassing her. I doubt they intended or considered her committing suicide, and I agree this case doesn't fit. But they are scum.

[faceless128]

The EFF is my hero. It's awful that a girl killed herself, but maybe if her parents cared enough about her to monitor her on myspace like Lori Drew instead of just drugging her up on medication, this wouldn't have happened.

Now, because of sensationalist media reports, the government is trying to charge a caring parent with charges that were stretched past all relevance or meaning close to their original intent because they don't have any real charges they can use.

This is a purely political move and they need to just take the loss.

[wahoospa]

She did this with malicious intent from the very beginning! This was not a honest mistake that a not so informed person without computer skills would do.

[magicmaster]

Term of Service is NOT a law. It's an unilateral contract that is totally favorable to the company offerring you service.

If you don't believe me, please have a look at the DISCLAIMER section. They are all in bold font----what does this suggest?

[mrglsmrc]

if this fraud is a CFAA violation then i guess the federal government is going to have to build detention camps for all the little old ladies in florida who use computer dating services with fake pictures and claim to be 54 and good-looking.
people have been using nom-de-plume since the beginning of publishing. i think this only counts as identity fraud if there were a real "Josh" and his reputation was defamed or his bank account pilfered.
investigators often pose as law enforcement to get questions answered. i don't see the government rounding up wackenhut employees who own or use computers online.
i feel very sorry this girl is dead. and there should be a lawsuit at least. people who commit suicide have on-going problems. no one event **forced her** to kill herself. but to the degree this evil-spirited woman contributed to her death, she ought to be forced to cough up a lot of cash.
The EFF is clearly right.

[benjaminstraight]

And the debate continues.

[wrioseac]

I don't see why this is a crime at all... Why something like this is considered a murder? I mean if I tell someone something or I behave in some "unpleasant way" and the person in question kills [his/her]self, I'm a murderer?

Examples:

1. (a classical one) I have a girlfriend. Then after some time I get to know someone else I fall in love with. I begin a relationship with the new one and tell the former that everything is over between us. Then the poor girl takes some pills and closes her eyes for the final sleep. She even leaves a goodbye letter behind, detailing that our broken relationship was the cause. Am I a criminal now?

2. I have a classmate who is fat and ugly. I keep telling him about this few times a week in the school, sometimes humorously or ironically while playing out in the school yard, sometimes in an uglier manner. Then for some reason on one of the days I'm cruder or more offensive as "usual", the fat guy cries, is so upset he doesn't pay attention while crossing the road and is hit by a car. If I hadn't been so harsh with him he would have crossed the road attentively as usual, so my words caused his death. So I'm a criminal?

3. A newbie on a tech forum asks some insanely dumb question. I'm not in my best mood and throw an answer making him look the biggest idiot of all times. He replies something like: "Ok, then i'm gonna kill myself because of what you said". Then I tell him: "Just do it, the world would be a better place without a jerk like you. Have fun dying." Then the guy takes his father's gun and blows out his mind (or anything what's in his head... ;) ). So I am a criminal in this case?

4. My boss has some kind of hearth disease. One day I tell him a terrible joke I read in a newspaper. He begins to laugh at his maximum, makes a heart attack and dies. That makes me a criminal?

Ok, some may say that I didn't want to cause the death of these persons, but what if I did? For example what If I wanted to kill my boss because of his beautiful wife? I knew he had a weak heart and prepared one of my best jokes for one of his busiest days, when it was terribly hot and humid air in his office? But who can prove this? Even if after a few months I marry the widow?

So my point is that until someone doesn't cause another person's death physically (by will or by accident) It can't be considered a criminal. Of course, it can be harassment or anything else, but not murder or manslaughter.

In the MySpace case they try to make the woman a murderer and since they cannot, they want to make her a dangerous hacker...

And the girl even had some kind of mental illness... So, the cause of her death was actually her mental illness not what a fictive person was saying to her on MySpace. Because a healthy child would have reacted differently. He/She would have ignored the attacks, or would have talked to the parents about it, or something like that. Now maybe this is a bit off topic, but what we have witnessed in this case is a little bit of "natural selection at work"...

[OldGaDawg]

The Above Is Totally BULL [S]!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd like to ask Wrioseac "Do you even have any children?"

Mrs. Drew had knowledge of her victims mental instability, planed her assault, carried it out "non-stop", abusing this child to the brink of "self-destruction".

All the above 1 - 4 [BS]. Are you even from this world? The fact that Mrs. Drew planned this can be best described as "Premeditated".

If I may go but one step further with your samples above? Place yourself in those shoes that have fallen to there demeanor and think about that.