Comments on: Gates: No magic answer to tech worker shortage

Industry hasn't done enough to position itself as exciting, say academics and Microsoft execs. Can Hermione Granger help?

[City_Of_LA]

How about

..not sending tech jobs off shore. I think I THINK it will be a good start in attracting people to a career in technology again.

[waynehapp]

Looking in the wrong.

Ol'e Billy Boy is just looking for tech workers in the wrong place.
He needs to hang out a construction site. You know those old C
++ programmers are now roofers after being out sourced....

If I were a savy high school kid I would make an astute
observation that shelling out $40,000+ a year for school for four
years is a waste of money when your competition overseas can
live nicely on your book money.

If a paradox all right. I don't make any money so I ship all the
skilled labor overseas. But wait! no one can afford my product!
Now I have to cut costs again! Repeat....

[City_Of_LA]

How about

..not sending tech jobs off shore. I think I THINK it will be a good start in attracting people to a career in technology again.

[waynehapp]

Looking in the wrong.

Ol'e Billy Boy is just looking for tech workers in the wrong place.
He needs to hang out a construction site. You know those old C
++ programmers are now roofers after being out sourced....

If I were a savy high school kid I would make an astute
observation that shelling out $40,000+ a year for school for four
years is a waste of money when your competition overseas can
live nicely on your book money.

If a paradox all right. I don't make any money so I ship all the
skilled labor overseas. But wait! no one can afford my product!
Now I have to cut costs again! Repeat....

[dlwhite46]

No magic necessary

Attracting knowledge workers would not be so hard if it didn't appear as though the jobs they work so hard to prepare for weren't being cut back and outsourced in such huge quantities to India, China, Russia, Viet Nam, etc.

When you combine the high cost of education, the exodus of US jobs overseas, and the local cuts (15,000 at HP), a career in the ITC industry just doesn't look like a good bet when compared to a more transferrable skill (finance, marketing, etc.)

[dlwhite46]

No magic necessary

Attracting knowledge workers would not be so hard if it didn't appear as though the jobs they work so hard to prepare for weren't being cut back and outsourced in such huge quantities to India, China, Russia, Viet Nam, etc.

When you combine the high cost of education, the exodus of US jobs overseas, and the local cuts (15,000 at HP), a career in the ITC industry just doesn't look like a good bet when compared to a more transferrable skill (finance, marketing, etc.)

[Norseman]

How come...

...Microsoft seems to have a problem finding innovative employees but Apple doesn't? Maybe the problem is internal, not external.

[Norseman]

How come...

...Microsoft seems to have a problem finding innovative employees but Apple doesn't? Maybe the problem is internal, not external.

[directorblue]

Outsourcing is a fact -- but industry needs to describe career paths

On this very topic, I blogged about IBM's ironic statements recently:

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2005/05/irony-thy-name-is-ibm-picture-credit.html

It's just a shortage of US Tech workers who will work for less than 20k/yr

I think Bill Gates is thinking:

It is really a shortage of U.S. workers willing to work for 20k/year.

There's no shortage of tech workers, this is pure bologne.

Every hiring manager I know (from several different companies) is saying they get dozens of resumes for every job offer.

It is still an employers market for software engineers in the U.S.

The only shortage there is, is the shortage of U.S. workers willing to work for 20k/year (or less).

Companies just want the U.S. market to flood with Computer Science grads so they can offer low starting salaries.

And that is why these companies are all saying, there's a tech worker shortage.

If can't believe that companies conspire, then your same idiot who is happy paying for the speculative cost of gasoline, and electricity (ALA ENRON).

It takes 30k/yr to live anywhere in the U.S. nowadays, and many places (like Silicon Valley) 60k is more the minimum (unless you are living with your parents).

So you aren't going to get people interested in a 4 year college Computer Science degree, UNTIL YOU STOP THINKING LIKE A BUNCH OF CHEAP, LYING MISERS.

[JoeF2]

Complete BS

There is a real shortage of qualified people in CS.
Of course, there are tons of VB and Web people, but that doesn't mean much. During the dot-com boom, everybody who could spell "computer" was hired.

It's just a shortage of US Tech workers who will work for less than 20k/yr

I think Bill Gates is thinking:

It is really a shortage of U.S. workers willing to work for 20k/year.

There's no shortage of tech workers, this is pure bologne.

Every hiring manager I know (from several different companies) is saying they get dozens of resumes for every job offer.

It is still an employers market for software engineers in the U.S.

The only shortage there is, is the shortage of U.S. workers willing to work for 20k/year (or less).

Companies just want the U.S. market to flood with Computer Science grads so they can offer low starting salaries.

And that is why these companies are all saying, there's a tech worker shortage.

If can't believe that companies conspire, then your same idiot who is happy paying for the speculative cost of gasoline, and electricity (ALA ENRON).

It takes 30k/yr to live anywhere in the U.S. nowadays, and many places (like Silicon Valley) 60k is more the minimum (unless you are living with your parents).

So you aren't going to get people interested in a 4 year college Computer Science degree, UNTIL YOU STOP THINKING LIKE A BUNCH OF CHEAP, LYING MISERS.

[JoeF2]

Complete BS

There is a real shortage of qualified people in CS.
Of course, there are tons of VB and Web people, but that doesn't mean much. During the dot-com boom, everybody who could spell "computer" was hired.

What shortage? -- Proof needed

Please provide an example of a position that could not be filled.

I don?t know of any. If you do, please respond with a description of the position.

Tony Leonard
Missouri

[JoeF2]

Here is one

From a friend in a well-known Silicon Valley company:
"Ok I know this is an offshot but if you know any good compiler people please let me know. We are hiring like crazy and just can't find enough qualified people."

The shortage of good people is a fact.

Offshore costing us money

The whole 'tech worker shortage' is a myth. I've seen it first
hand. Jobs that had multiple resume's, but the company insisted
it had to hire an H1B. The reasoning was obvious, money.

Who would want to go into this industry today when the job is
going to get outsourced to the cheapest bidder.

More fun than that is the case of my current company: the boss
hired out some of the simpler code work to a company in India
that came highly recommended. I've spent nearly 80 hours in
just the past week debugging the code from this company. I
thought it was just me, but my supervisor told me that he's been
getting tons of complaints from customers about the code these
guys have done. He originally thought the outsourcing was a
good idea, now he is pissed because of the downtime fixing
these problems.

So yea, you can save a lot of money using offshore developers.
As long as you don't have to justify the amount you spend
getting it fixed by people who know what they are doing.

[wazzledoozle]

HERE IS THE ANSWER

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/wazzledoozle/answer.jpg

[kquickkquick]

The 'Shortage' is just an Excuse to Outsource

My Fortune 500 company just told me to lay off 2 excellent software engineers and I have heard that the executives have been told to do all future development at our facilities in Bangalore, India. There is a hiring freeze on US programmers because in India they only cost $27K/year. Yeah, I think I would encourage someone to follow a CS career! NOT!

It's OK

If they're smart, they'll retrain to do something that gets them work in the US. Hell, I'm a 25-year veteran COBOL programmer, earning 6 figures now, as an Integration Architect.

When handed lemons, work for M$ (just kidding), when handed lemons, make lemonade.

Leaving school, I always thought that there would be work for me, writing IBM mainframe COBOL - there are jobs, but in Manilla & Bangalore. So what - if there are jobs for architects in the US, train for what employers want.

It's painful to make the switch, but the alternative is worse.

There's no such thing as a job for life.

[kquickkquick]

The 'Shortage' is just an Excuse to Outsource

My Fortune 500 company just told me to lay off 2 excellent software engineers and I have heard that the executives have been told to do all future development at our facilities in Bangalore, India. There is a hiring freeze on US programmers because in India they only cost $27K/year. Yeah, I think I would encourage someone to follow a CS career! NOT!

It's OK

If they're smart, they'll retrain to do something that gets them work in the US. Hell, I'm a 25-year veteran COBOL programmer, earning 6 figures now, as an Integration Architect.

When handed lemons, work for M$ (just kidding), when handed lemons, make lemonade.

Leaving school, I always thought that there would be work for me, writing IBM mainframe COBOL - there are jobs, but in Manilla & Bangalore. So what - if there are jobs for architects in the US, train for what employers want.

It's painful to make the switch, but the alternative is worse.

There's no such thing as a job for life.

[bmelendy]

What does he mean, "phenomenal"???

the competition is just phenomenal? Is that phenomenal as in, amazing, huge and vast? Because if there are jobs out there, I'd like to know. In our local paper, on Sunday, if there is more than 2 jobs in the computer section, it is a good week. Those jobs are usually for helpdesk or sysadmin type positions. Where are the developer positions in a town of 150K people?? After 12 years in the industry and a related bachelors degree, I'm thinking hard about trying to break into the medical field. I just feel as though there is no growth potential in IT anymore (after the booming 90's) and that IT jobs are fast becoming a 'trade' rather than a profession, and those jobs are going the way of manufacturing jobs.

[bmelendy]

What does he mean, "phenomenal"???

the competition is just phenomenal? Is that phenomenal as in, amazing, huge and vast? Because if there are jobs out there, I'd like to know. In our local paper, on Sunday, if there is more than 2 jobs in the computer section, it is a good week. Those jobs are usually for helpdesk or sysadmin type positions. Where are the developer positions in a town of 150K people?? After 12 years in the industry and a related bachelors degree, I'm thinking hard about trying to break into the medical field. I just feel as though there is no growth potential in IT anymore (after the booming 90's) and that IT jobs are fast becoming a 'trade' rather than a profession, and those jobs are going the way of manufacturing jobs.

That old myth of lack of programmers again

Why do people keep buying the myth that there is a lack of programmers in the us and the world? Every one I know in the field (be doing it for 20 years)is out of work. Every position has 200 candidates. The real problem is wanting to pay 30% of the 1990 rates for 100hrs of work. Expecting people to have no families, live under their desk and eat cold pizza 6 days a week. That why the number CS grads is dropping like a rock. It's NOT about It's not about sexy snappy chic cool looks. It's about having a career instead of a job. Being a professional instead of a bit-monkey. I's about hiring people over 40, intead of expecting everyone to be 25 forever.

[JoeF2]

I get hired just fine

I am over 40, and I get hired just fine.
It is about keeping up to date. The only people who complain are the losers who haven't learned any new technology for 20 years.

That old myth of lack of programmers again

Why do people keep buying the myth that there is a lack of programmers in the us and the world? Every one I know in the field (be doing it for 20 years)is out of work. Every position has 200 candidates. The real problem is wanting to pay 30% of the 1990 rates for 100hrs of work. Expecting people to have no families, live under their desk and eat cold pizza 6 days a week. That why the number CS grads is dropping like a rock. It's NOT about It's not about sexy snappy chic cool looks. It's about having a career instead of a job. Being a professional instead of a bit-monkey. I's about hiring people over 40, intead of expecting everyone to be 25 forever.

[JoeF2]

I get hired just fine

I am over 40, and I get hired just fine.
It is about keeping up to date. The only people who complain are the losers who haven't learned any new technology for 20 years.

[directorblue]

Outsourcing is a fact -- but industry needs to describe career paths

On this very topic, I blogged about IBM's ironic statements recently:

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2005/05/irony-thy-name-is-ibm-picture-credit.html

What shortage? -- Proof needed

Please provide an example of a position that could not be filled.

I don?t know of any. If you do, please respond with a description of the position.

Tony Leonard
Missouri

[JoeF2]

Here is one

From a friend in a well-known Silicon Valley company:
"Ok I know this is an offshot but if you know any good compiler people please let me know. We are hiring like crazy and just can't find enough qualified people."

The shortage of good people is a fact.

Offshore costing us money

The whole 'tech worker shortage' is a myth. I've seen it first
hand. Jobs that had multiple resume's, but the company insisted
it had to hire an H1B. The reasoning was obvious, money.

Who would want to go into this industry today when the job is
going to get outsourced to the cheapest bidder.

More fun than that is the case of my current company: the boss
hired out some of the simpler code work to a company in India
that came highly recommended. I've spent nearly 80 hours in
just the past week debugging the code from this company. I
thought it was just me, but my supervisor told me that he's been
getting tons of complaints from customers about the code these
guys have done. He originally thought the outsourcing was a
good idea, now he is pissed because of the downtime fixing
these problems.

So yea, you can save a lot of money using offshore developers.
As long as you don't have to justify the amount you spend
getting it fixed by people who know what they are doing.

[wazzledoozle]

HERE IS THE ANSWER

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/wazzledoozle/answer.jpg