Comments on: 'Buy American' legislation draws fire
A tech trade group calls measure forcing Homeland Security to buy products made mainly in America a "lose-lose" proposition.
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Companies are all about profits, and producing some components (and i'm not going to get into the needs of building new factories) domestically would be completely prohibitive.
Companies are all about profits, and producing some components (and i'm not going to get into the needs of building new factories) domestically would be completely prohibitive.
around the world. The congressmen who support this have
much more in common with Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro than
with James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. Not surprisingly, the
Buy American foolishness has been wedded to national security.
When all else fails to stir up the mob, toss in a foreign menace.
The two most immediate effects of these rules are: 1) the
economic law of comparative advantage is perverted so that
inefficient American producers will be rewarded, and 2) in cases
where no product is produced in the U.S., it will simply be
unavailable. In reality, it is a sort of affirmative action program
for incompetent American businesses, and it will lead to novel
corruption, such as companies inventing new ways to make
foreign products seem American.
If Buy American is a great idea, how about Buy Iowa if you
happen to live in that state? Wouldn't Iowans be better off being
forced by law to pay much higher prices for items made solely
within the state, and doing without other products that aren't
purely Iowan? It seems foolish in that light, and it is. We are
better off letting the most efficient producers succeed no matter
where they are. It does not benefit Americans, and it is not
patriotic except in the dumbest sense, for Americans to have
their earning power reduced by the higher prices this
necessitates. The American founders saw this and wrote a
prohibition of intrastate protectionism into the constitution.
This is an especially primitive form of socialism. And like all
forms of socialism it most impoverishes the people who the
politicians claim it will benefit. Republican socialists are no wiser
than Soviet ones. The KGB would have loved this law.
China is not our freind in human policies or other but yet we reward them to the point they will dominate the world any many ways and none to date are progressive to the world or China. Only cheap labor for multinational corporations.
The same people brought us the Svings and Loan scandals (Neil Bush)only a couple of decades ago. They reaped billions from our national treasure as it collasped from fraud for profit or rather transfer of wealth.
We are the largest, richest market in the world at present. The real issue is why have we allowed our local and national treasure and infrastructures transferred off shore in the name of cheap labor and larger profits.
The American people have been duped by means that our forefathers recognized and predicted (see following forefathers of both parties quotes).
We are seeing Americans coming out to vote over passion of prejudices only to be ruled by an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.
Both parties playing to the extreme factions of their party knowing they will show up at the polls with candidates indebting themselves to corporate money to get elected or out right solicited self bribery as we see in the Tom Delay legacy. We must have campaign finance reform to correct the latter and insight to not be seduced by the former opens the door for being subdued & subjected by deceit (invisible government)despite going to the polls to select our leaders and representatives.
Both parties have ignored the plight of it's constituents in this battle of the one with the most money power wins. The one power that can win back our right to govern through true representative government described as the
"Great Experiment" by our forefathers is to focus on the basic and important goals described in our founding fathers formation of our "Great Nation".
Today I ran across a remark from Butler Shaffer echoing Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt and discovered there is still some alive in our present time that sees in to the soul of our country and the inspiration for me to take pen to paper. We are starting to see the realization that we have been divided and conquered. Both parties are owned by the corporate take over of
our government by multi-national corporations (referred to as an "invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility "- by Theodore Roosevelt) through corporate money in both state and national politics. Abraham Lincoln referred to this also in his "Corporations have
been enthroned. An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is
destroyed." An old trick being used in a new time!
Also refreshing is that to my knwledge Butler Shaffer is not running for any election for any party.
"Corporations have been enthroned. An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. "
Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To
destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."
Theodore Roosevelt (April 19, 1906)
2) Inventing new ways to make foreign products seem American is hardly a worthwhile task, as a) it has already been done, and b) it would still have to be checked out at the docks. We'd just have to hire more dock workers to close that gap.
3) Buying Iowa and buying American are two different things because Iowa and America alike pledge allegiance to one Constitution. The American Founders also, mind you, made it so that the Federal Government could restrain and deflect unfair foreign traders using tariffs, whereas the states cold not.
What you are intentially leaving out here is the fact that producing Homeland Security hardware overseas leaves us vulnerable to foreign sabotage. It adds another element of vulnerability upon the already gaping vulnerabilities we face when we produce everything domestically. We don't know who will become our enemy in the future, so producing **anything** national security-related on foreign shores leaves us open to, for instance, computer software which could execute an "order 66" to shut down or even turn computers against us.
Of course, your response to this is, foreigners would **never** do such a thing. In which case I say ignorance is bliss. Intentional security holes exist even in domestic software - remember that MicroSoft worm patch that was infected right at their own distribution server? Foreign made Homeland Security software would be vulnerable to even more prodigious, more nefarious security holes.
Also, it makes it even easier for foreign enemies to see what our hardware is made of, so they can circumvent homeland security and do whatever they want to us. It is **not** that this vulnerability doesn't exist with domestic production, it's that the likelihood is *increased* with producing it abroad.
Your rebuttal to this post will be akin to saying it's okay to be a woman in a dark alley, <the rest censored lest this post be deleted>, hoping no one will come and sexually assault you. (Really, seriously, I'm hoping this post won't get deleted because Americans need to hear this and understand why we need to have Homeland Security products made domestically... it is the first of many steps we need to take.)
around the world. The congressmen who support this have
much more in common with Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro than
with James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. Not surprisingly, the
Buy American foolishness has been wedded to national security.
When all else fails to stir up the mob, toss in a foreign menace.
The two most immediate effects of these rules are: 1) the
economic law of comparative advantage is perverted so that
inefficient American producers will be rewarded, and 2) in cases
where no product is produced in the U.S., it will simply be
unavailable. In reality, it is a sort of affirmative action program
for incompetent American businesses, and it will lead to novel
corruption, such as companies inventing new ways to make
foreign products seem American.
If Buy American is a great idea, how about Buy Iowa if you
happen to live in that state? Wouldn't Iowans be better off being
forced by law to pay much higher prices for items made solely
within the state, and doing without other products that aren't
purely Iowan? It seems foolish in that light, and it is. We are
better off letting the most efficient producers succeed no matter
where they are. It does not benefit Americans, and it is not
patriotic except in the dumbest sense, for Americans to have
their earning power reduced by the higher prices this
necessitates. The American founders saw this and wrote a
prohibition of intrastate protectionism into the constitution.
This is an especially primitive form of socialism. And like all
forms of socialism it most impoverishes the people who the
politicians claim it will benefit. Republican socialists are no wiser
than Soviet ones. The KGB would have loved this law.
China is not our freind in human policies or other but yet we reward them to the point they will dominate the world any many ways and none to date are progressive to the world or China. Only cheap labor for multinational corporations.
The same people brought us the Svings and Loan scandals (Neil Bush)only a couple of decades ago. They reaped billions from our national treasure as it collasped from fraud for profit or rather transfer of wealth.
We are the largest, richest market in the world at present. The real issue is why have we allowed our local and national treasure and infrastructures transferred off shore in the name of cheap labor and larger profits.
The American people have been duped by means that our forefathers recognized and predicted (see following forefathers of both parties quotes).
We are seeing Americans coming out to vote over passion of prejudices only to be ruled by an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.
Both parties playing to the extreme factions of their party knowing they will show up at the polls with candidates indebting themselves to corporate money to get elected or out right solicited self bribery as we see in the Tom Delay legacy. We must have campaign finance reform to correct the latter and insight to not be seduced by the former opens the door for being subdued & subjected by deceit (invisible government)despite going to the polls to select our leaders and representatives.
Both parties have ignored the plight of it's constituents in this battle of the one with the most money power wins. The one power that can win back our right to govern through true representative government described as the
"Great Experiment" by our forefathers is to focus on the basic and important goals described in our founding fathers formation of our "Great Nation".
Today I ran across a remark from Butler Shaffer echoing Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt and discovered there is still some alive in our present time that sees in to the soul of our country and the inspiration for me to take pen to paper. We are starting to see the realization that we have been divided and conquered. Both parties are owned by the corporate take over of
our government by multi-national corporations (referred to as an "invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility "- by Theodore Roosevelt) through corporate money in both state and national politics. Abraham Lincoln referred to this also in his "Corporations have
been enthroned. An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is
destroyed." An old trick being used in a new time!
Also refreshing is that to my knwledge Butler Shaffer is not running for any election for any party.
"Corporations have been enthroned. An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. "
Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To
destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."
Theodore Roosevelt (April 19, 1906)
2) Inventing new ways to make foreign products seem American is hardly a worthwhile task, as a) it has already been done, and b) it would still have to be checked out at the docks. We'd just have to hire more dock workers to close that gap.
3) Buying Iowa and buying American are two different things because Iowa and America alike pledge allegiance to one Constitution. The American Founders also, mind you, made it so that the Federal Government could restrain and deflect unfair foreign traders using tariffs, whereas the states cold not.
What you are intentially leaving out here is the fact that producing Homeland Security hardware overseas leaves us vulnerable to foreign sabotage. It adds another element of vulnerability upon the already gaping vulnerabilities we face when we produce everything domestically. We don't know who will become our enemy in the future, so producing **anything** national security-related on foreign shores leaves us open to, for instance, computer software which could execute an "order 66" to shut down or even turn computers against us.
Of course, your response to this is, foreigners would **never** do such a thing. In which case I say ignorance is bliss. Intentional security holes exist even in domestic software - remember that MicroSoft worm patch that was infected right at their own distribution server? Foreign made Homeland Security software would be vulnerable to even more prodigious, more nefarious security holes.
Also, it makes it even easier for foreign enemies to see what our hardware is made of, so they can circumvent homeland security and do whatever they want to us. It is **not** that this vulnerability doesn't exist with domestic production, it's that the likelihood is *increased* with producing it abroad.
Your rebuttal to this post will be akin to saying it's okay to be a woman in a dark alley, <the rest censored lest this post be deleted>, hoping no one will come and sexually assault you. (Really, seriously, I'm hoping this post won't get deleted because Americans need to hear this and understand why we need to have Homeland Security products made domestically... it is the first of many steps we need to take.)
Now Harris Miller whines and complains to Congress daily about multinational conglomerates needing slave-labor subsidies.
Harris Miller - America-hater.
Go away Miller. We don't need your ilk in America.
Now Harris Miller whines and complains to Congress daily about multinational conglomerates needing slave-labor subsidies.
Harris Miller - America-hater.
Go away Miller. We don't need your ilk in America.
2. Since WWII the following has happened:
2A. American workers have been allowed to get lazy by international standards. I worked in many countries and the rest of the world kicked our butts.
2B. Our engineering industries got fat and lazy since anything we made we could sell.
2C. Our sales forces became lazy and even developed polices such as designed obsolence thinking the would get more sales with a lower quality product that wouldn't last as long.
2D. Management and government allowed all of the above because their greed was being met.
Talk to the Mexican imigrants about their government and business leaders. That is the exact direction our country is going.
America needs to:
1. File bankruptcy (If you took a balance sheet like our governments to an attorney, you would be filing bankruptcy today.)
2. Let the dollar crash. Let's take our breaks now rather tham pass it on to future generations.
3. Stop the training of any foreginers in our universities. Require all to be third generation Americans.
4. Require results from our government including increasing the progressive income tax rates.
5. Increase the Capital gains taxes since they apply a tax only when money is taken out of investments.
6. Return the investment tax credit on valid business expenses, not expensive SUV's.
7. Keep the inheritance tax and adjust it for those at or below median personnal value.
8. Get every American off their butts and start working. When I worked in Japan in the early 1970's there was much made about American productivity being the problem. Our government and business leaders said yes it's those workers.
HOWEVER in Japanese socity at the time the government and private industry management were considered workers. They were in fact saying, your problem is your government and industry leaders. They are the ones who need to lead America our of it's fall.
If it is not already too late to save Middle Class Americans, it soon will be.
The Information Technology Association of America represents the most fraudlent portion of our economy today.
Many IT Departments are keeping too many on staff.
Many on staff IT Personnel are either goofing off or working other jobs on company time.
Outsourcing companies and IT service companies are costing too much. We have seen them stealing their customers software and reselling it and charging for work never done.
2. Since WWII the following has happened:
2A. American workers have been allowed to get lazy by international standards. I worked in many countries and the rest of the world kicked our butts.
2B. Our engineering industries got fat and lazy since anything we made we could sell.
2C. Our sales forces became lazy and even developed polices such as designed obsolence thinking the would get more sales with a lower quality product that wouldn't last as long.
2D. Management and government allowed all of the above because their greed was being met.
Talk to the Mexican imigrants about their government and business leaders. That is the exact direction our country is going.
America needs to:
1. File bankruptcy (If you took a balance sheet like our governments to an attorney, you would be filing bankruptcy today.)
2. Let the dollar crash. Let's take our breaks now rather tham pass it on to future generations.
3. Stop the training of any foreginers in our universities. Require all to be third generation Americans.
4. Require results from our government including increasing the progressive income tax rates.
5. Increase the Capital gains taxes since they apply a tax only when money is taken out of investments.
6. Return the investment tax credit on valid business expenses, not expensive SUV's.
7. Keep the inheritance tax and adjust it for those at or below median personnal value.
8. Get every American off their butts and start working. When I worked in Japan in the early 1970's there was much made about American productivity being the problem. Our government and business leaders said yes it's those workers.
HOWEVER in Japanese socity at the time the government and private industry management were considered workers. They were in fact saying, your problem is your government and industry leaders. They are the ones who need to lead America our of it's fall.
If it is not already too late to save Middle Class Americans, it soon will be.
The Information Technology Association of America represents the most fraudlent portion of our economy today.
Many IT Departments are keeping too many on staff.
Many on staff IT Personnel are either goofing off or working other jobs on company time.
Outsourcing companies and IT service companies are costing too much. We have seen them stealing their customers software and reselling it and charging for work never done.
of substandard American products ( that is what this proposed
law implies, after all it they weren't, why would you need a law? )
a little competition for government sales would encourage
American products. But by mandating a certain descriptive
criteria, it would encourage companies to produce products that
barely meet it, ie substandard, just for the sale.
of substandard American products ( that is what this proposed
law implies, after all it they weren't, why would you need a law? )
a little competition for government sales would encourage
American products. But by mandating a certain descriptive
criteria, it would encourage companies to produce products that
barely meet it, ie substandard, just for the sale.
Let's put skilled tech workers back to work by giving them employment with Homeland Security. They can design and manufacture the gadgets and widegets that are needed for security and earn a paycheck instead of unemployment. We managed to do this during the Depression with WPA and PWA.
Also, a benefit to spending Homeland Security funding with American companies is that they will be the ones to develop new technologies that can then find their way into other American products for export. If we buy gas detectors, scanners, cameras, radios, etc. from the likes of China and India, then they will reap the benefits of R&D, further strengthening their competitiveness. This points to the fallaciuous thinking by another poster about "comparative advantage". We need to look 10 years down the road, not in the rear view mirror, and finally start putting Americans first.
Let's put skilled tech workers back to work by giving them employment with Homeland Security. They can design and manufacture the gadgets and widegets that are needed for security and earn a paycheck instead of unemployment. We managed to do this during the Depression with WPA and PWA.
Also, a benefit to spending Homeland Security funding with American companies is that they will be the ones to develop new technologies that can then find their way into other American products for export. If we buy gas detectors, scanners, cameras, radios, etc. from the likes of China and India, then they will reap the benefits of R&D, further strengthening their competitiveness. This points to the fallaciuous thinking by another poster about "comparative advantage". We need to look 10 years down the road, not in the rear view mirror, and finally start putting Americans first.
- instead of simply buy 50% American...
- by alx359 May 22, 2005 4:05 AM PDT
- think better buy % of (proven) payed taxes / reinvesting done in US soil. If a (multinational) corporation puts its money in US economy instead of aliens, then of course it deserves some better terms in gov/mil contracts.
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
(34 Comments)