Comments on: U.S. slips lower in coding contest
Chinese students win an international programming competition, while U.S. schools' performance hits a new low.
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I'm learning to fix air-conditioners in order to leave a decades-long career that is a trail of broken promises.
Computers are nifty, and I plan to continue programming as a hobby - but as a career it is a poor choice given how programmers are treated in today's environment.
Because of my background, Chung's message has extra meanings to me ...
I am a Chinese American working in a big company in Silicon Valley. I came to US 10 yrs ago (from Hong Kong) for my graduate degree in CS.
I was facing a very similar situation back in Hong Kong 10 yrs ago. Ordinary business folks in office has very little respect for IT people / programmers. People who has no college education (e.g. sales folks at fashion chain store - think of GAP equivalent) can make much more money than I did easily.
Those are reasons that I wanted to come to US to work a true tech company in Silicon Valley. I did it by studying my graduate degree in US.
I think what we are seeing is maturing of an industry and its job spectrum. It happened to most of industry sector.
One end of the spectrum: you got research-driven "scientists" job, e.g. A.I., O.S., programming language, databases, search engine. On the the end, you got casual programmers / computer support kind of jobs, e.g. your excel spreadsheet programming, or simple vb or javascript programming, computer support caller center people.
The low-end jobs are disappearing because of either technology advancment itself (i.e. end user can do it themselves) or shipping to lower cost area (e.g. India).
This job erosion is spreading to the mid-section of the spectrum.
If one wants to make money and earn respect in a tech job, one should prepare himself/herself for the higher end of job spectrum - i.e. work in a truely tech company - that sells technology product / services - do some real innovation - invent and implement next big thing.
If you can significantly improve search alogrithm used in Google, Yahoo, Amazon and Microsoft, you will be still paid with big money. If you can invent the next Skype or BitTorrent product, you will be still rewarded with pots of gold. If you can be an engineers for next iPod, you would get a lot of respect from your peers and even your relatives.
If you think you cannot make it higher end side of job spectrum, then you should think more about your career path in tech sector.
Another way to look at it: tech industry is becoming like auto industry. Job roles are becoming increasingly specialized. You want to become a designer of next great car model, and you don't want to be just another mechanics or car salesman, if you want to make good money.
Instead of saying "the American Dream has no place for programmers", I would say, "there are very limited places for programmers to realize their American Dream".
I'm learning to fix air-conditioners in order to leave a decades-long career that is a trail of broken promises.
Computers are nifty, and I plan to continue programming as a hobby - but as a career it is a poor choice given how programmers are treated in today's environment.
Because of my background, Chung's message has extra meanings to me ...
I am a Chinese American working in a big company in Silicon Valley. I came to US 10 yrs ago (from Hong Kong) for my graduate degree in CS.
I was facing a very similar situation back in Hong Kong 10 yrs ago. Ordinary business folks in office has very little respect for IT people / programmers. People who has no college education (e.g. sales folks at fashion chain store - think of GAP equivalent) can make much more money than I did easily.
Those are reasons that I wanted to come to US to work a true tech company in Silicon Valley. I did it by studying my graduate degree in US.
I think what we are seeing is maturing of an industry and its job spectrum. It happened to most of industry sector.
One end of the spectrum: you got research-driven "scientists" job, e.g. A.I., O.S., programming language, databases, search engine. On the the end, you got casual programmers / computer support kind of jobs, e.g. your excel spreadsheet programming, or simple vb or javascript programming, computer support caller center people.
The low-end jobs are disappearing because of either technology advancment itself (i.e. end user can do it themselves) or shipping to lower cost area (e.g. India).
This job erosion is spreading to the mid-section of the spectrum.
If one wants to make money and earn respect in a tech job, one should prepare himself/herself for the higher end of job spectrum - i.e. work in a truely tech company - that sells technology product / services - do some real innovation - invent and implement next big thing.
If you can significantly improve search alogrithm used in Google, Yahoo, Amazon and Microsoft, you will be still paid with big money. If you can invent the next Skype or BitTorrent product, you will be still rewarded with pots of gold. If you can be an engineers for next iPod, you would get a lot of respect from your peers and even your relatives.
If you think you cannot make it higher end side of job spectrum, then you should think more about your career path in tech sector.
Another way to look at it: tech industry is becoming like auto industry. Job roles are becoming increasingly specialized. You want to become a designer of next great car model, and you don't want to be just another mechanics or car salesman, if you want to make good money.
Instead of saying "the American Dream has no place for programmers", I would say, "there are very limited places for programmers to realize their American Dream".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_waterloo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_waterloo
of his time spinning his wheels in the mud of Iraq. No leadership -- Unless you want to save the unborn so that they can be drones for Wallmart.
of his time spinning his wheels in the mud of Iraq. No leadership -- Unless you want to save the unborn so that they can be drones for Wallmart.
So, US will always lead on innovation. Have you heard any OS "originally created" from China ? no.
Any programming language "originally created" from China ? no. Who is major driver of various IT standard ? US or other Western Country.
So why be so afraid of China. They can only "copy" the idea and do it better, faster at lower cost.
For education system, US just need to keep its High education (BS/MS/PhD) leading the world.
Don't forget to check those ShangHai teammeber, I bet all of them will go oversea for their MS/PhD degree, and probably US is the #1 choice.
I'm not America, I'm just a Taiwanese.
Personally i'm in the tech industry, not for respect, and not for the money. I'm in it because
i like working with computers. I just need to find somewhere other than a law firm to work, so i can do some more interesting things than email administration...
I'm not so concerned about China being a Tech threat. Really it's Russia that could come to dominate software inovation. They've always had great mathematical and engineering schools even during soviet communism, and if they can get a capitolistic economy moving, they'll really start inovating quickly.
Anyways, concerning the CS people in America, I really think the only way to apply our skills and make a decent living at it is to emulate the model that Doctors and Lawyers have done over the centuries. Find a few other software engineers and go into business for yourself. Do both App development and Support, while developing your own software. Form small partnership companies. Forget the big multi-national corporations -- you'll forever be a low-wage slave to some simpleton with an MBA.
Programming contests are misnamed. They are analysis and algorithm contest. Not contests on how well one can code.
So, US will always lead on innovation. Have you heard any OS "originally created" from China ? no.
Any programming language "originally created" from China ? no. Who is major driver of various IT standard ? US or other Western Country.
So why be so afraid of China. They can only "copy" the idea and do it better, faster at lower cost.
For education system, US just need to keep its High education (BS/MS/PhD) leading the world.
Don't forget to check those ShangHai teammeber, I bet all of them will go oversea for their MS/PhD degree, and probably US is the #1 choice.
I'm not America, I'm just a Taiwanese.
Personally i'm in the tech industry, not for respect, and not for the money. I'm in it because
i like working with computers. I just need to find somewhere other than a law firm to work, so i can do some more interesting things than email administration...
I'm not so concerned about China being a Tech threat. Really it's Russia that could come to dominate software inovation. They've always had great mathematical and engineering schools even during soviet communism, and if they can get a capitolistic economy moving, they'll really start inovating quickly.
Anyways, concerning the CS people in America, I really think the only way to apply our skills and make a decent living at it is to emulate the model that Doctors and Lawyers have done over the centuries. Find a few other software engineers and go into business for yourself. Do both App development and Support, while developing your own software. Form small partnership companies. Forget the big multi-national corporations -- you'll forever be a low-wage slave to some simpleton with an MBA.
Programming contests are misnamed. They are analysis and algorithm contest. Not contests on how well one can code.
IT starts in the US, then spreads. This has nothing at all to do with this or any president, and to think this is ridiculous. But then, It is no suprise to me that American universities are failing....there is so much an air of sex and whatever might "feel" good....so much preaching of how conservatism is evil.....so much of an air of rich snobbery in these places, there just isn't enough time in a day for learning and doing the things that really need to be. People from around the world come to American universities to get PHD's....this really should be rather telling.
But in the end...
The thing that ends up happening is a good programer gets bumped off becuase of the decision to go overseas for employees. Priorities and responsibilities get so out of wack, that bad things happen. Companies and the government wanting nothing more than more money, more power, more ability to monitor and control people.
Do any of you really think that idiotic, controlling, dominating, power hungry, "do-it-because-I-said-to" attitudes will ever produce anything positive?
But then, how many people are just so much more interested in "American Idol", than what it would take to make things the way it should be?
- lol....and of course.......
- by Prndll April 7, 2005 7:10 PM PDT
- There would exist stories like this....
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
Showing 1 of 5 pages (160 Comments)IT starts in the US, then spreads. This has nothing at all to do with this or any president, and to think this is ridiculous. But then, It is no suprise to me that American universities are failing....there is so much an air of sex and whatever might "feel" good....so much preaching of how conservatism is evil.....so much of an air of rich snobbery in these places, there just isn't enough time in a day for learning and doing the things that really need to be. People from around the world come to American universities to get PHD's....this really should be rather telling.
But in the end...
The thing that ends up happening is a good programer gets bumped off becuase of the decision to go overseas for employees. Priorities and responsibilities get so out of wack, that bad things happen. Companies and the government wanting nothing more than more money, more power, more ability to monitor and control people.
Do any of you really think that idiotic, controlling, dominating, power hungry, "do-it-because-I-said-to" attitudes will ever produce anything positive?
But then, how many people are just so much more interested in "American Idol", than what it would take to make things the way it should be?