Comments on: Acer: Vista is an excuse for Microsoft price increases

Vista is tailored to increase license revenues by introducing a basic edition no user will want, PC maker says.

[rapier1]

uhhh

the run command is in the same place. What are you talking about? Sure it says 'start search' but if you type 'calc' in there the calculator app starts upp. Also, these people haev the prices wrong. They quoted the prices in pounds but those are the US prices no need for the 2nd conversion.

[rapier1]

That price is wrong

The standalone version of Ultimate is $450. The upgrade version will be $269. The version that most people will get - premium - is an upgrade at $179 or standalone at $269. In comparison - the OS X 10.4 price is $129. But every sold version of OS X is, essentially, an upgrade. So the price differential isn't all that much (between premium and OS X).

[andrewpugh]

5% faster networking! 1.5 x quicker apps! - Get a grip

Do you honestly think 85% of computer owners would notice those figures ever? Most are pleased when a page comes out the printer or an email ends up in the sent box. Most never tax the computer more than switching it on/off.

I dont think one of my 500 businesses or home users will want to pay more money to a) renew a computer that does everything they want already or b) have more power available than they are ever going to need or c) beta test some buggy piece of sh** that probably wont allow them to use their 2 year old printer or switch off their PC without being repremanded for doing something wrong. Most tbh have only just got used to XP as it is.

The argument is of course mute as the Vista rollout will come go and be adopted just like an army being told to invade some sovereign country by some whacked out leader - just to steel some oil.

The only hope we have is Apple planning on releasing OS11 to be run on Dell computers at a fraction of the cost of Vista hint hint Apple.

[hybris06]

Hmm...

Speaking as a republican and ivy league college graduate, you are a moron.

Thanks,
Bill

[rapier1]

what are you talking about?

5% faster networking? Okay, lets take a look at things. Say you are on a network that has some muscle behind it - a corporate or campus network with 100Mbps to the world. Now, say you are trying to get a file from a place 100ms away. In the default OS X environment you'll be limited to around 5Mb/s because of the 64KB receive buffer. In the same environment a Vista box will be able to get near line speed rates because of the advanced buffer management. Is a 20x increase in throughput 'insignificant' to you? It isn't to me. Sure, you can get the Mac to the same point - but it involves either playing with sysctl or downloading software that changes those settings for you.

OS X is a damn fine OS and I use it on a daily basis. But saying that Vista is useless, buggy, bloated, or whatever is simply disingenuous. All it does is illustrate a level of unthinking contempt and the resulting ignorance that it engenders.

[chuck_whealton]

Re: Get a grip

>> The only hope we have is Apple planning on releasing OS11
to be run on Dell computers at a fraction of the cost of Vista hint
hint Apple

Unfortunately, Apple doesn't APPEAR to be interested in
releasing their operating system for anything except the Macs.

I think you can kiss that hope goodbye - UNFORTUNATELY.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

OS11 on a PC? Ha!

I highly doubt it will ever happen.
Why did Apple choose EFI over BIOS? If you read about EFI vs BIOS, there really isn't any MAJOR good reason to move to EFI. Apple chose EFI because it allows them to retain control of where people buy hardware. Want a new graphics card for your Mac Pro? Well, good luck buying one from the local superstore or computer shop, because you'll need a card with "EFI-friendly" firmware. So where are you most likely to buy it?

Furthermore, can you imagine if OSX had to be tested on the HUGE variety of hardware combinations that exist in the PC world? A large part of Apple's rapid turnover in OSes is their limited and tightly controlled hardware base. That's a benefit or a drawback, depending on one's perspective.

Apple also sells an image in addition to a hardware/software product, and that image would be obliterated if OSn ever made it onto "any old PC". They can't release a "PC version" of OSX, because that would mean multiple versions of OSX, and that would destroy the whole "there's only one OSX" thing.

Finally, Apple knows that if their OS was installed on a ton of computers out there, those crazy hackers and virus writers would start to notice that it had become a much bigger target, and that would again ruin the Mac image.

[tommygunz777]

seems to me....but,

Bert, seems to me that everything you said is dead on. Yet, I'm done with PCs. I can't wait til I buy my OS 11 or whatever. Gotta put shoes on the kids feet and food on the table, not too mention gas in the car. I realize Mac's are more expensive, but it is the package they sell that attracts me.
I used to mess around fixing up my 67 GTO and my 69 Chevelle. You know, headers, bigger cam and carb, bigger tires. Louder pipes, glass packs! I should have just stuck with one decent car, not something I had to add too. Constantly. There seems that something ALWAYS has to be fixed on PCs.
I did the same to my PCs, faster this, more ram, better sound and video cards more that and ya know, I never stop having to "tinker" with my PC. I'm unhappy with the whole PC thing and I hope Apple/MAC never get as big as Gates and company. (units sold)
I'm going out to buy my MAC package, put the key in , turn it on and tool on down the open webway.

[CharlesP2001]

So what?

OS X could be made to run on any old PC if Apple chose to do
so, they were even working on it in the 90s when Steve Jobs was
gone with the Classic OS. Apple is always releasing hardware
revisions with different video cards, hard drives, ect. and OS X
works just fine, so compatibility isn't an issue. Also, even if OS
X were on the millions of PCs that Windows is it still wouldn't be
the security disaster that Windows is. Windows has so many
security holes it's like Microsoft built a submarine with screen
doors, OS X is much tighter on all aspects of security.

I just have one question, what makes Windows so great in your
opinion?

[aabcdefghij987654321]

FUD

EFI is being developed to replace BIOS and everyone (including MS) is moving toward it. Just because Apple decided to go straight there instead of taking the BIOS detour isn't a valid complaint.

[sumwatt]

And the world still turns....

So I think we've just about heard it all in the comments:

"Windows is going to die"

"Move to Linux"

"Use OSX"

"Windows is going to be just fine"

"[your OS of choice] sucks, or is crap"

"Linux on the desktop will never happen"

Tomorrow the sun will rise, the sun will set, and the same arguments will be made. None of this blathering will make any difference in the world until we see something that truly shifts the operating system paradigm. So sit back and eat a friggin cheeseburger, drink a coke, and have a smile.

[Clues]

How Stupid / Windows Stupid

How stupid do you have to be to pay these insane prices for the
worst operating system ever sold in the history of mankind.
These prices are triple the price of other operating systems,
systems that are actually modern reliable secure operating
systems, not the 1970 based kludge that Microsoft foists on the
stupid. Also why would any person with even a two digit IQ
willingly buy the most insecure operating system ever sold? Why
become another point of distribution on the malware (Windows)
platform. Vista is trying to mimic the look and features of
Apple's OS-X from half a decade ago. When you can get a Mac
cheaper than the same thing from Dell that can run Windows
faster and also includes a proper secure fully featured operating
system and tons of applications why would you waste money on
a Windows computer. Especially when the Windows box will be a
mismatched pile of old technology in an ugly noisy box of cheap
cheap cheap components. Why buy a Windows box that is
missing built in camera, microphone and dozens of leading edge
features that won't be mimicked by Microsoft Windows for
another decade or more. Why get a crappy slow Windows box
that needs a Gig of RAM just to run the OS till the next crash.
Why buy a Windows box that gets slower every day. If you feel
desperate and fearful enough to need the security blanky of
Windows run the peace of **** on your Mac as well until you
realize everything simply works and works simply on a Mac.
Then erase the virus magnet patrician (Windows) from your Mac.
Don't worry about viruses, worms, spyware, back doors, trojans
and all the other crap that Windows drags along with it, the Mac
is immune and has never had a single infection ever. Don't
believe the lies the stupid FUD repeaters tell you they still have
their head up their ass.
Get a Mac and your IQ will go up substantially as well as your
income and you will never reformat your drive or reinstall the
operating system again.

[Mister Winky]

SEEK HELP NOW

Seriously, it's time for you to step away from the console, take a deep breath and call 911. You may not know it, but you are about to walk off the cliff called "reality" and it won't be a pretty fall down for you.

-Mister Winky

[Mister Winky]

SEEK HELP NOW

Seriously, it's time for you to step away from the console, take a deep breath and call 911. You may not know it, but you are about to walk off the cliff called "reality" and it won't be a pretty fall down for you.

-Mister Winky

Stupid? Get a Mac, Sure. But Lose the Attitude, Dude.

I don't make it a habit to post about the ranting of Mac or PC
fanatics but this one bears at least some comment.

Clues (or whatever your name is), speaking as a Mac user whose
roots reach back to the very beginning of the platform -
1/24/84, I do wish you'd bother to get your facts straight about
my favorite incarnation of its operating system, Mac OS X. Much
of what you said about the PC experience is valid, if somewhat
crude. But please note that the Mac in not "immune" to malware
and it HAS had a few unwanted intruders over its short lifetime,
though none of any significance. And, on occasion - but rarely -
it's been necessary to either reformat a drive or reinstall the OS,
events so rare that the MTBF is measured in years, not weeks or
months. "Never," however is simply too absolute to be credible.
The more we ask of our Macs (or PCs) the greater the chance for
something to go wrong that will require starting over. If you've
never reformatted a drive or reinstalled the OS, you're either very
lucky or you only use your Mac for a fairly narrow set of tasks.

I occasionally see PC users complain in comments or forums that
Mac users are way too rabid in their support of the platform. I
tend to dismiss those comments as reactionary and the ranters
as too rare to be worth noticing. But you, my friend, are simply
rude, crude, and vaguely obscene in your diatribe.

With Apple at such a critical juncture, having doubled its market
share recently and being on the cusp of doubling it again, you
might think twice about abusing PC users in such a fashion. It's
not likely to make anyone run out to their nearest Apple Store
and buy a new Mac Pro just because you called their baby ugly.

I think that old adage about flies, honey and vinegar applies
most adroitly in this case.

Lawrence Standifer Stevens
Off The Dime Podcast
http://www.offthedime.com

[Alienjerk]

Suuuure

Excuse me? "When you can get a Mac cheaper than the same thing from Dell"? The cheapest tower case Mac right now is $2499. I can pick up a pretty neat Dell for that which will have better performance, more RAM, and a bigger hard drive. And FYI Apple's aren't built from better components than PCs: they source their parts from the same Far Eastern locations that the PC makers do. Plus their returns procedure in the event of failure is abysmal beyond belief. ALL that Apple has going for it is OSX, which I admit is a great operating system.

[Clues]

How stupid are you? Read and weep.

How stupid do you have to be to pay these insane prices for the
worst operating system ever sold in the history of mankind.
These prices are triple the price of other operating systems,
systems that are actually modern reliable secure operating
systems, not the 1970 based kludge that Microsoft foists on the
stupid. Also why would any person with even a two digit IQ
willingly buy the most insecure operating system ever sold? Why
become another point of distribution on the malware (Windows)
platform. Vista is trying to mimic the look and features of
Apple's OS-X from half a decade ago. When you can get a Mac
cheaper than the same thing from Dell that can run Windows
faster and also includes a proper secure fully featured operating
system and tons of applications why would you waste money on
a Windows computer. Especially when the Windows box will be a
mismatched pile of old technology in an ugly noisy box of cheap
cheap cheap components. Why buy a Windows box that is
missing built in camera, microphone and dozens of leading edge
features that won't be mimicked by Microsoft Windows for
another decade or more. Why get a crappy slow Windows box
that needs a Gig of RAM just to run the OS till the next crash.
Why buy a Windows box that gets slower every day. If you feel
desperate and fearful enough to need the security blanky of
Windows run the peace of **** on your Mac as well until you
realize everything simply works and works simply on a Mac.
Then erase the virus magnet patrician (Windows) from your Mac.
Don't worry about viruses, worms, spyware, back doors, trojans
and all the other crap that Windows drags along with it, the Mac
is immune and has never had a single infection ever. Don't
believe the lies the stupid FUD repeaters tell you they still have
their head up their ass.
Get a Mac and your IQ will go up substantially as well as your
income and you will never reformat your drive or reinstall the
operating system again.

[tommygunz777]

Micro$oft is out of touch, as usual!

With our countries being run by the Billionaire elites, what else would you expect? The average PC user is not going to spend (in my opinion) that much for software when all he is doing is surfing the web, paying bills and sending and replying to emails. (Yes, I realize that we do more with our systems than just this) Most of us have to fill the tanks on our vehicles and put food on the table.
Note to Micro$oft: I'm going to use my 98SE box and my XP Pro box til Jobs and company come out with the next update to MAC OS 10 And I'll NEVER come back to a PC again. I realize Apple/MAC products are more expensive, but they have a different business model or a different way of doing things that doesn't leave me unhappy like Gates and company.

[a85]

Jobs is so much better

Before you criticise Gates, look at all the work he has done for charity (he has contributed upwards of US$20 billion to his charitable foundation). Compare that to Jobs, who has done sweet FA. OS X *may* be a better OS (this is contentious) depending on your needs, but I don't think you should buy it just because Apple's business model is supposedly superior - they use the same hardware and sell it for far more (granted the design is nice).

[aabcdefghij987654321]

Business model

Apple and MS have the same model, make money for the stockholders. If you seriously think there's a difference you've been fooled by someone with an agenda.

[andrewpugh]

hmmm

Then you are probably one of the most qualified people to spot one.

[Ryo Hazuki]

Me: Jim Wong's comments are an excuse to make Acer users buy Home Premium

Unheardof, a company selling its new software/hardware more expensive than its old software/hardware. Noone forces *me* to move to Vista Home Premium, what does exactly mr. Jim Wong find basic in Home Basic, the imporved security, the chenges in the network stack, the blocked access to the core level of the OS, the imporved performance, the imporved stability, te imporved reliability?

The new (Vista) experience I hear about, if I get Basic, maybe I won't feel it because it's not supposed to be felt, it's just supposed to be there and it's called PatchGuard. Maybe there's no (Aero) graphics, Media Centers, remote controls but there's something more important called improved security and that "thing" is there in all versions.

Windows Vista Ultimate is unlike any other verison of Windows Microsoft ever released, so it's perfectly normal it's more expensive too.

[intowhite]

Security should be standard

I don't think I've read anything so inane in a long while. You talk about "improved security" twice in your post - but isn't that supposed to be a standard feature in a modern operating system? And are you seriously arguing in favour of Microsoft increasing their pricing to give you things that should be there in the first place, such as performance, stability and reliability?!! You're just an apologist for Microsoft!

No, the average user wants new features, not things that should be there already. Come on, let's face it, home users will want the eye candy and the Media Centre and remote controls etc. But people aren't stupid, they're not going to buy it at the prices that Acer have quoted - the high end version of Vista is approaching the cost of the hardware itself! No wonder that Mr Wong and other PC manufacturers are speaking out.

Windows Vista is shaping up as the biggest software disaster in history.

[Hoser McMoose]

Same price after inflation

Really the price hasn't increased at all, what we're seeing is more an artifact of inflation. WinXP was released 5 years ago. In 5 years time we've seen at least a 10% increase in costs due to inflation (roughly 2.5% per year in the UK), so really a 10% increase in price isn't an "increase" at all.

That being said, I still have no plans on shelling out $150+ to by the new OS, particularly not with their ever-more-restrictive licensing plans. I've already sworn off ALL Symantec products due to their idiotic licensing and refuse to by DRM-crippled CDs that just won't play on my computer-based home entertainment system. Microsoft looks to be doing their damndest to add themselves to my personal do-not-buy list. Not that my 1 sale is going to break the company or anything, but I'm sure that I'm not alone.

[jogiba]

Vista Basic upgrade $99 Premium $159

Will you retards quit posting full version prices since Windows comes with a new PC or you upgrade it. Vista Basic is the same price as XP.

[zeroonezero]

Forcing Vista on buyers?

Does anyone remember what happened with Dell? Dell had an agreement with Microsoft once XP was out, they could still sell 2000 Professional, but they had to charge more for it than they were charging for XP. XP Pro OEM is $155 CDN right now, $98 for Home. At least that's what I pay. Acer's prices stun me. According to estimates, Dell's cost for XP, both versions, is apparently valued at $30. How much do Acer claim they'll have to charge? Who to believe? Who's really jacking the price? When the dust settles, Microsoft will still come out ahead.

[johnkleist]

Vista who?

Have any of you folks out there heard Linux Mandrake 2007 was released over six months ago, with most of the features Vista has to offer, plus a STABLE RELIABLE PLATFORM?