Comments on: Will Vista stall Net traffic?

Expert predicts Vista could overflow the Net's infrastructure, causing "rolling blackouts." Some call the forecast "FUD."

[eimboden]

This is BS

Two annoying things about these posts (although I see some decent ones out there) 1) people it seems don't have Vista RC1 installed and therefore have no basis for any comments 2) people it seems don't have any prior knowledge about networking in general and therefore have no basis for any comments.

There is one good reason as to why this story is BS. The default option in Vista RC1 is to "Obtain DNS server address automatically". If your ISP doesn't support IPv6 DNS lookup (which can be the case, regardless of whether or not you have an IPv6 address) then you have NO ABILITY TO PERFORM AN IPv6 DNS LOOKUP. This is true even if you have the IPv6 protocol installed and applied to a network connection.

As a secondary point, DNS lookups are cached. You'd have to request a different webSITE every single time to force a DNS lookup (within the cache window, which depends on the software), let alone two!!! each time. And ISPs are not stupid either, do you think that Comcast's DNS server goes out to the DNS Root server everytime one of its millions of customers tries to go to yahoo.com? If you do, you are nuts! They cache as well.

[Magallanes]

You're right.

Also dns is cache inside windows (you can delete the cache with ipconfig /flushdns )

Even in a old 56kb modem connection you don't need to worry about dns bandwith.

[aspicer]

This is BS (hmmm...)

What Vista currently does, or will do, on this issue aside. "Obtain IP and DNS automatically" is pretty common, nothing amazing there. Getting your ISP's DNS Servers also nothing amazing there. It's when you go to "If your ISP doesn't sipport IPv6 DNS lookup" that you really fell astray. What ISP these days doesn't support IPv6 DNS lookups? Please send me an example ISP. Then you have no ability to perform an IPv6 DNS lookup? I don't think that's true. Have you tested this? Or do you have references that this is what will happen? Even if it would stop you from doing IPv6 lookups what percentage of real ISPs would this be? zero percent?

Also yes DNS queries are cached... but you ought to do some real world testing and see how much DNS query traffic actually comes out of your computer to your ISP. You must not do much when you surf besides always going to yahoo.com. Lot's of people go to lots of other sites... I go to dozens of different sites per day myself. Also there are lots of sub sites on yahoo and google and such. Examples: images.google.com, groups.google.com. Everyone is not going to these all of the time. But I click on them pretty often. Do a search engine search for something and you can't tell me cache is going to predict what results users are going to click on (what web site name) requiring a DNS lookup.

The only things that are going to affect this issue are: 1.) What MS Does in Vista to stop v6 lookups when there is no V6 connection, and 2.) What the root servers do (or have already done) to handle additional traffic.

[wbenton]

It might cause slowdowns but I doubt it will Stall

Microsoft never has been network traffic friendly. Regardless of whether it was NetBios broadcasts, Browser Master notifications, DHCP notifications or DNS lookups and even Microsoft's own MHTML (Microsoft HTML). It's always been a network bandwidth hog... even back in the Win95/98 days!

Whether they will cause a blackout or brownout is yet to be seen. Personally, I doubt it unless they do unnecessary queries instead of caching. But if they're low on memory... then will they increase their DNS lookups?

It takes a whole lot of DNS requests to bog down a DNS server. But even if it doesn't take down a DNS server, it will increase used bandwidth both locally and across the internet to your ISP's DNS.

Microsoft... as well as everybody/anybody else... needs to start making their protocols and software using the current protocols more network friendly!

Walt

[extinctone]

Of course it will...

We are talking about a Microsoft product, correct? Of course it will further strain the resources of anything it touches. Each and every previous OS from MS has done just that, why would Vista be expected to do anything different?

[DrtyDogg]

Not a Microsoft product.

IPv6 has nothing to do with Microsoft. It is a future standard that they are trying to continue to support. Linux already supports it, I believe OSX does too as does Windows XP. The only reason that this could be construed as a Microsoft problem is because of their market share. As shown in my earlier post it is just as easy to disable in Vista as in XP, but nobody seemed to even notice that it was available in XP.

This is a sensationalized story pushed by a company that stands to profit from the upgrades to DNS servers.

As stated in earlier comments, and somewhat in the article. The only problem that would come from this is from individual ISPs. If their DNS servers are near capacity and everybody using those servers where to switch to Vista then maybe, just maybe it could overload ther server.

[ppgreat]

It will stall the internet...

...with emails for tech support!

[Narshadda]

Are You kidding me?

At the very worst, a reg hack would fix the issue if any.

[Penguinisto]

Business Mags to World: Boycott Vista

http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/07/technology/Reality_check_Vista.biz2/index.htm?cnn=yes

If that takes, maybe there won't be enough Vista installs to affect DNS... (evil grin)

/P

[astrumxp]

It is a reasonable concern!

The article is convincing. Maybe that?s why Microsoft is not in a hurry to extend CPP program. Yeah a lot of people have found already links to download it through sites like ww.neowin.net and www.expertvista.com . But I believe Vista is tomorrow?s reality, and you (web) have to take it and get along with that. It is like a locomotive ? almost impossible to stop, starting from direct iso images downloading it is already a SUPER load to www.
IPv6 can be switched off manually though.
Good luck people!

[solrosenberg]

You're not as smart as you think

Very nice. All of the script kiddies who managed to get Linux installed think Linux must be so far ahead of Windows. Did you know Microsoft first released an IPv6 implementation in 1998? Did you know one of the key IPv6 architects and the inventor of Teredo is a Microsoft employee? And speaking of Teredo, did you know that with Teredo it doesn't matter if your router or your ISP supports IPv6?

Microsoft's IPv6 implementation (including Teredo) is helping to return the Internet to its end-to-end roots. NAT broke the Internet. IPv6 is a step towards fixing that. Microsoft should be applauded for their efforts to get IPv6 deployed.

[joshuasmythe]

Neither are you

Firstly, check the "reply to comment" link, I know it's hard to see, being all of 5mm away from the "reply to story"...

Secondly:
IPv6 was invented by Steve Deering and Craig Mudge at Xerox PARC, IPv6 was adopted by the Internet Engineering Task Force in 1994, when it was called "IP Next Generation" (IPng). (Incidentally, IPv5 was not a successor to IPv4, but an experimental flow-oriented streaming protocol intended to support video and audio.)

Try Wikipedia next time before you mouth off.

[www.datagrep.com]

Microsoft Vista could hurt the Internet - where has google gone !

Microsoft's new super soaraway operating system Vista will clog up the Internet and it will be good news for linux.

Companies like Google should take responsibility and accountability to drive the open source software consortium, for developing FREE Operating system, for the benefit of mankind. sometimes its the elder (read wealthy) responsibility to give it away free to the younger (generations).

Long live open source software.

~BALA

[Jim Hubbard]

Without Net Neutrality, will MS pay ISPs more for Vista?

It's a thought. If Net Neutrality fails, and Vista is eating up bandwidth, why shouldn't MS pay through the nose? You can bet Ma Bell is already looking into it.

Speaking of Net Neutrality, this clip should scare the crap out of you (after you stop laughing)... http://www.zipperfish.com/mediabase/popup.php?Active=ViralVideo&&ID=1330

[satnavsys]

If everyone suddenly upgrades to Vista...

If everyone suddenly upgrades to Vista the month it comes out, then the spike in DNS queries will be the least of our problems!

[zwmaster]

Proof there is no issue.

Clearly the writer does not understand IPv6.
For the "issue" to arise, the Vista system has to have an IPv6 address. This means the ISPs need to start handing out IPv6 which they will not right away. Corporations will not be moving to IPv6 for many years as such changes are quite intense. The impact will be more than minute to start and the increase will only grow slightly over the years which gives people time to upgrade their DNS servers as usage increases that would be needed as the general usage of the internet increases. Pls read the quote below and you will see that the initial impact of Vista will not be measurable.

"For example, Microsoft designed Vista so PCs will query in the address of the type assigned to the system, the company said. Computers that don't have an IPv6 address will not do IPv6 queries, the company said. Also, when a machine does do an IPv6 query, it will do so only to a DNS server that responded to its initial IPv4 query, the company said. "Name errors are not repeated, so the Net traffic will less than double," it said. "

[tania3000]

Look at the stalled traffic HERE ...

... next to that odd military facility in China recently found using Google Earth:

Articles with pictures:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/19/huangyangtan_mystery/
http://www.smh.com.au/news/web/the-riddle-of-chinas-area-51/2006/08/14/1155407679963.html

Google Earth forum post:
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/484568

That's the place in the middle of the desert where the Chinese Army has constructed a scale-model replica of the entire region of Aksai Chin (occupied by China since the 1962 war with India). At 1:500, it's still 700 by 900 meters big ( = several football fields). Next to it is a base with dozens of troop transporters seen coming and going. The duplicate shows everything: rivers, lakes, roads and snow-capped mountains. It's basically a landscape within a landscape.

The problem is that nobody has been able to figure out the function of this thing. The world's biggest miniature golf course, perhaps? China's own Area 51? That's why it's the subject of so much discussion in the blogosphere. The discoverer even had to set up his own blog to handle the buzz: foundinchina.blogspot.com

Any ideas?

[rain97304]

Stall Net Traffic? Absolutely!

Microsoft's IPV6 support that's already installed by default on XP KILLS local Web performance; Pages take forever to load. I have logs replete with calls to teredo.ipv6.microsoft.com. After I deinstalled Microsoft's IPV6 support, subsequent Internet access improved markedly. While IPV6 undoubtedly represents an improvement over IPV4, it's deployment requires careful consideration. The consequence of killing local client performance is one of those considerations.

[aldenddlove]

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