Comments on: Indian state to bypass Microsoft 'monopoly'

Communist government in Kerala is campaigning to eliminate Microsoft from use in public institutions.
The New York Times

[benomathew]

i dont think so..

as a person whose been in Kerala for 14 years, who've studied in different schools and college there, i've crossed paths with thousands (literally) of youngsters around my age... and i am yet to see one with a linux only box.. this includes the guys who helped richard stallman setup a seminar at my college!! if at all someone has linux, he'll also have a dual boot machine with some version of windows...

from what i've read, i understand that it is the government aided schools that is going to have the open source stuff.. out of the total number of students in kerala, only less than half come from government schools... and those that go to government schools are generally of a lower economic background... mostly of which dont have a computer at home.. the rest majority rely on easily available pirated s/w which are mostly windows based.. in other words, most kids that do have a pc, grow up with windows and windows based s/w.. in such a scenario, i just cant imagine a kerala, say 5 years from now, having a linux generation.. the proposition is great but the implications most prolly wont last..

[David Arbogast]

GREAT News

What you say is good news... Students should have the right to learn about the technologies that are in use around the world. When a communist government tries to ban access to a given technology as ubiquitious as Windows, they'll be hard-pressed to enforce such a rule. Its good to hear that students already know better than their leaders.

[YankeePoodle]

Knee Jerk Reactions

I dont care what Software Government uses as long as they are able to be productive esp. in making schools produce better students. The difference between Linux and Windows hardly matters for kids. This is knee jerk reaction and poor imitation of China (what Chinese tried to do using Red Flag Linux).

[David Arbogast]

Not so!

<,The difference between Linux and Windows hardly matters for kids.>>

I wholeheartedly disagree! Linux AND Windows are both common technologies used worldwide! Limiting students to just one or the other limits their learning, knowledge, and preparedness for real-world jobs. There is a HUGE difference, and as such, students should be provided with opportunities to learn BOTH.

[David Arbogast]

Unfortunate for students

Encouraging citizens in a small geographical locale to ditch the World's most popular operating system in favor of Open Source is just not a good sign... for anybody. Those citizens are obviously realizing that they either need skills that are applicable world-wide... or perhaps their government has no intention of ever letting them leave. Certainly, the government isn't encouraging the kind of skills-development that will open the most plentiful doors of opportunity.

I don't know whether to shake my head and cry, or laugh hysterically... The article seems to have all the right words in all the right places... but to see it all come together under the umbrella of a Communistic government is almost too much.

These terms just seem to belong together:
Communist
Progressive
Free Software
Ban Corporations

[ddesy]

Unfortunate for the world

It is unfortunate for the world that there are so many closed minded people who would make such statements. Learning open source software doesn't develop any fewer or less important skills than learning software developed by a monopoly. I started on a TI99/4a and can easily use Windows/Mac OS/Linux.

How "Free Software" and and "Progressive" seem Communist is beyond me. At least the basics of Communism aren't based on exploitation of people, however.

[Vurk]

Its a shame

that the author of the last comment is such a Republican hard-liner. But it isnt all his fault, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are experts in the field of brain-washing and social conditioning.
Communist governments want the best(in theory) for their citizens, but cannot afford it; so they do the best they can and end up worse off and corrupt.
To link together communism, progressivism and the free and open source movement is the worst kind of Republican hatred for things that the Republican Party cannot control or destroy.

But, like I said, its not entirely his fault. The Republican National Committee has spent decades and billions of dollars in their brainwashing and social conditioning efforts.
He is merely a product of that media he chooses to believe in.

[Europodboy]

Wrong

You are so wrong! - Isn't Microsofts abusive monopoly akin to a
communist state?

The world would get along perfectly well without Microsoft, its
just that those of you suffering from Stockholm Syndrome over
Microsofts control of your lives don't and won't see it.

I have never used a Microsoft product in the 14 years I have
been using a computer.

You should know that I am a director of a company which
employs over 1000 people and with a turnover of $80M

[qwerty75]

lol

More ignornace for a corporate cheerleader.

The fact that Linux is a far superior OS and has no lock in whatsoever.

Yeah, not likely crappy software from an unethical corporation is communistic.

Free Software is so communistic, only in your warped mind.

MS is more communistic then free software, MS is the one against competition.

At least you are consistant in your stupidity.

[sudokuscore]

This state does such things all the time

Hailing from the state of Kerala in India I can tell that this state and it's "Communist?" govt do such crazy things all the time, only to correct thier opinion after may be a decade when it is too late and their subjects of experiments(govt. aided school chlildren) has lost all opportunities to move ahead in life.
There are some positive side to this leftist govt. Mostly it is very hypocritic and based on white washed brain washed lies and "progressive" ideologies meant to keep their brigades( student wing and youth wing ) intact and active. Here active means, to protest(violently), against anything and everything development oriented.
This new move to "swtich" to linux is going to close avenues of opportunities to poor govt. school students.
This "communist" govt. is coming out with big plans to entertain big IT companies to thier state by opening exclusive IT parks. If Microsoft comes out whith a plan to invest $1Billion, I'm just curious what reaction the govt will have.
I have first hand experience as being called a fascist for not supporting the left student's fight against "computerisation" in the late eighties when then PM Rajive Gandhi slowly introduces new IT trends to INdia which is the reason for all the boom that is happening in India. I didn't go the left way and today I have a good job here in New York even though I studied in all govt. institutions.
I feel sorry for the kids.

[Seaspray0]

This is the best post on this subject

Rather than dispute the pro's and con's of linux versus microsoft or communism versus capitolism, you've given insight into the story at hand. Thank you.

Linux, the choice of communists everywhere!

Yeah, that sounds like a real selling point!

[qwerty75]

stupidity

Linux has nothing to do with comminism.

[gerardogerardo80]

Anti-trust, good education, smart choice.

Has nothing to do with being communist. As an educational tool Linux is way superior. And I bet the farm that those students have a way superior education than the average student attending our schools districts that are as socialist as they can be.

If we were using the Walmart model we should outsource our education system. Sending our High School students to other countries were the education is cheaper and better. But we are not that capitalistic.


By having a government controlled education that is socialist, by Federal Reserve Bank manipulating the economy makes it a communist institution.

Many years ego soviet president Nikita Kruschev told then president Eisenhower, we'll feed you communism spoon by spoon and one day you'll wake up and America is going to be red. And it is here, subsidised housing, welfare checks, food stamps, all this make people dependant of goverment cash, paid for by tax payers.
Even for our own security we should try to balance our computing and have at least some knowledge of Open Source. To know more than one operating system is a plus not a minus.

Windows is like eating BigMags, fries and Coke 3 times a day, for 6 years.

[Björn Lundahl]

Good points!

I do not know much about computing, but surely, your points should be considered. To love Linux, does not need to be a political thing.
Björn Lundahl
Göteborg Sweden

[ralfthedog]

The state has 90 % literacy? Sounds like they are doing something right.

The state has 90 % literacy? Sounds like they are doing something right. They want to kick out Coke and Pepsi? Good for them, cutting down on the sugar and caffeine that kids drink is always good (Bad for the programing labs, good for the kids).

People who know Linux make much more money in the IT industry than people who are stuck with windows.

It sounds to me like Kerala is the most successful state in India. Reward success. That is the key to capitalism.

[sudokuscore]

Kerala Model of development?

You wrote: It sounds to me like Kerala is the most "successful" state in India.
You are right and wrong.
You may find this Kerala Model Development very interesting.
Kerala model
### ####From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kerala model refers to a set of economic practices developed in India's state of Kerala. These practices have resulted in the state attaining a high level of standards in human development, while compromising on its industrial development. This anomaly of high social development despite economic backwardness, is variously known as the Kerala model, or the Kerala phenomenon. The unique demographic profile of the state as well as historical factors associated with the state's intervention have been considered to be responsible for this phenomenon. [1]
############ END xiki
the URL is : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model

[Tomcat Adam]

Firefox! The Choice of Communists Everywhere!

SourceForge! The home of Communists Everywhere!

See? It's fun to make retarded *** hoc ergo propter hoc based statements. ;)

[Björn Lundahl]

Linux is promoting competition! Compete aggressively! We need you!

I do not pretend that I know a lot about computing. Actually I don?t. But surely does Linux very existence increase competition and that is, I think, is very good. It makes Microsoft much better and it gives people alternatives. In the server market, Linux is the leader. And all this without Government intervention! Thank you! Fantastic!
Björn Lundahl
Göteborg Sweden

[David Arbogast]

True BUT

Björn, you are right that alternatives promote competition and improve the products for everybody... but the story tells a tale of a government REMOVING competition by BANNING choice. Clearly, this is not advantageous for consumers. Nor is it advantageous for students who get a limited view of the technology in use outside of their university.

[jimwhite467]

Windows considered hip

I was in India not too long ago and something I
heard blew my mind. While in the US a few may
consider using a Mac to be fashionable, many in
India apparently think using Windows is hip.
They think that since Linux is free or low cost,
it must be for the poor and for those who cannot
afford Windows. In class concience India, brand
is everything. What's funny is that many users
install pirated versions of Windows anyway.
Maybe it's like wearing a fake Rolex.

Cheers,
Jim

[yikes31]

making headlines because of communism connotations

This kind of thing goes on all the time.
Bill Gates came over to the UK in about 2000 to secure a deal
with UK schools that virtually guranteed that windows would be
in front of just about every kid in the country unless the school
opted out.
This isnt so much about communist ideals as it is about a
government trying to get as much for their money as possible.
Everyone who thinks that these kids will be disadvantaged
because they are using LINUX really need to speak to the LINUX
community. Its my experience that windows users know less
about computing than LINUX users (in general) and that porting
from LINUX to WINDOWS is easy.
This means that these kids will actually be better prepared by
using LINUX. On top of which, LINUX is being used more
commonly in places like india to keep the computing costs (of
hardware and software) down. So to say that these kids will be
unprepared is to look at it from our comfy environment in the
states and to try to find reasons to slag off a communist
government that is doing what it feels is best for its people.

[Björn Lundahl]

Read these objective reviews of Windows versus Linux!

http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/2006/05/03/linux-and-windows-compared-the-facts.aspx

and


http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/20/linux-a-european-threat-to-our-computers-by-tristan.aspx

They are quite funny!

Björn Lundahl
Göteborg Sweden

[Björn Lundahl]

About those? objective? reviews Windows versus Linux.

I was trying to be funny in posting those narrow minded and stupid reviews. I thought they were so funny that I laughed for an hour. Those reviews are all rubbish!

Björn Lundahl
Göteborg Sweden

[gargoyle_xlvii]

selling one version $25 and $30

Who am I subsidized Microsoft or the people in India?

Where can I get may copy of Windows for $30?
May be we should us more pirate software so the price we pay is more in line with what other countries pay.

Just because I live somewhere other India does not mean I should have to pay 5 to 7 time what others pay.

I have started using a version of Linux may be if more of used it Microsoft would finally charge a reasonable price not a Monopolistic price.

I applaud the countries and goverments who are bold enough to stand up to Microsoft, I wish others would be as brave and not be in the hip pocket of Microsoft.

[Björn Lundahl]

When Government regulates the public loses!

I think it is good if Microsoft competes aggressively. I do not think that they should be regulated in any way. It is, otherwise, like stopping, a political party for getting? too many votes? and for competing aggressively and then accusing the winning party to be a monopolist (in the political process you will have this ?monopoly? by only getting majority votes).

When people buy products, they, by these very actions, actually, vote for those products. We should accept and respect that. Talk is really cheap and only actions count. Only by actions people manifest their true values. The political process is, therefore, no substitute for the complex market process. If, for instance, people do not like Microsoft?s actions and ?attitude?, they will try out alternatives. Those values counts and influence the market outcome.

It is not, only, the quality of the products that counts. Advertising is very important too. If consumers do not know about products, what good are they? How can products that no one knows about benefit the common man?

Innovation in itself is of no value if the consumers do not demand it. If some products are technologically superior to others and are not demanded, it does not prove that anything is wrong. It is an illusion to ask the ?experts? which products that should ?dominate the marketplace?. Because people are happy in those cases with the inferior ones and it is this ?happiness? and consumer satisfaction that counts. If this ?happiness? is dependent upon ignorance, advertising, as mentioned, is demanded and will be profitable.

The price of a product depends upon how much the consumer values it. For instance, the market price for a house is not the same as the market price for a glass of milk. If, for example, the OS Vista will not be highly valued by the consumer, the price of it will fall. If it will be highly valued, consequently, the price will be high. So, Microsoft has every incentive to make, in the point of view of the consumers (and not in the eyes of some ?experts?), a valued OS.

I also think that it is good that Apple and Linux compete aggressively with each other and with Microsoft. In some market segments Apple is the leader and in the server market, Linux is the leader.

The essence with this comment is that the market process is a very complex thing and all sorts of values are ?computed? and taking account for. Only the market process can handle this complexity and satisfy human wants and this process can only work properly if the market is free. Governments are no substitutes for the market process.

Björn Lundahl
Göteborg Sweden

[Björn Lundahl]

Alan Greenspan did not like antitrust laws and their authorities!

Actually, I do not like Ayn Rand, but still, in her book ?Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal?, there is an interesting chapter (Antitrust, chapter 4) written by Alan Greenspan (former chairman of the Federal Reserve). I, hereby quote from page 70 a few sentences written by Alan Greenspan ?The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is the product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naive, and certainly unrealistic economic theories?. I, hereby also quote some of the last sentences from this chapter (page 71) ?Whatever damage the antitrust laws may have done to our economy, whatever distortions of the structure of the nation?s capital they may have created, these are less disastrous than the fact that the effective purpose, the hidden intent, and the actual practice of the antitrust laws in the United States have led to the condemnation of the productive and efficient members of our society ?because? they are productive and efficient?. Naturally, these statements also can be applied to EU regulators and antitrust laws. Read the whole story! Go to; http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/06-12-98.html


Björn Lundahl
Göteborg Sweden

[Björn Lundahl]

The Emperor's New Clothes

People are led to believe that trade restrictions between regions or countries ?create jobs at home?, which they certainly do not. If people had the opposite belief that ?free trade? between regions or countries ?creates jobs at home?, that would also be an incorrect belief. Trade restrictions or free trade does not cause unemployment or cause employment in a region or country. Trade restrictions only lower the standard of living, hamper competition and restrict liberty. If for instance, the EU imposes tariffs on Chinese textiles, the Euro will appreciate against the Chinese Yuan (the value of the Euro will increase relatively to the Chinese Yuan). This depreciation (decrease in value) of the Chinese Yuan against the Euro, in this example, is caused by a smaller demand for Chinese textiles and therefore a smaller demand for Europeans to buy the Chinese Yuan. Because of this change in exchange rates, prices of goods from the EU to China will be generally higher and prices of goods from China will be generally lower (apart from textiles). As you can imagine, this will increase employment in the European textile sector, but decrease employment in other sectors. At the whole, unemployment will not change but trade between the regions will be lower. Specialization, competition and living standards in the EU region will be hampered. The tariffs will only serve special interest that is the textile manufacturers and their employees. Surely, we want our representatives to serve the common good and the common man and not special interests!

Someone might complain that the Chinese are intervening in the exchange markets to keep their currency artificially low and that they are not letting market forces to appreciate their currency, and therefore my statement about free trade, in this case, is not applicable. Free trade, someone might think, is presupposed by freely fluctuating currencies with no Government intervention (also called clean floating exchange rates). Certainly I do not want Governments to intervene in exchange markets, but actually it is the Chinese that are in this case the losers and we are the winners. We should be glad that China is suppressing the rise of its currency, and the Chinese people should be mad about it. When market prices indicate that, for example, a project is unprofitable; investors naturally stop investing in such a project. Otherwise, factors of production such as land, capital, and labour would be wasted. Every government manipulation of market prices is a step toward economic breakdown and chaos. Land, capital, and labour that are invested in the exporting business in China because of a suppressed currency, have changed the economic structure in China and are mal investments, unprofitable for the nation to undertake, and we are getting something free. We don't need to export anything to pay for this "extra importation of Chinese products?. To make my statement more obvious, we could consider that if the Chinese currency would be suppressed to no value at all (which would not be possible to realize), the Chinese would be working for nothing (which is, naturally unprofitable for China to undertake) and the market forces in the EU (if market forces would not be hindered by Governments) would reallocate land, capital and labour for other uses and to those fields which the Chinese are not able to compete (even if the Chinese were working and exporting to full capacity, that will not, by far, be enough to satisfy all our wants, in other words, their GNP is by far, too small). The increases in production which mentioned reallocation of recourses leads to are our extra bonus. We should applaud this and the Chinese people should revolt!

Free trade is not, either, presupposed by different currencies.
We do not worry about the balance of payments between London and Manchester, Berlin and Munich, Paris and Bordeaux or Stockholm and Göteborg etc. Market forces will smoothen out any imbalances. If, for example, London exports more to Manchester than Manchester exports to London, the demand for goods and services will be greater in London relatively to their supply, and also relatively to the situation in Manchester. Because of this, prices will go up in London and therefore will exports from London to Manchester contract, as well as, imports from Manchester to London will expand. This happens all the time and we do not even know about it and therefore do not worry about it. Governments do create problems all the time.

Only Governments can be so silly to reject great offers and bargains. Individuals doing the same thing would be considered mad.

The essence with above statement is that Governments hinders competition, lower our standard of living, promote special interests and they make excuses for this with faulty theories and propaganda.

Björn Lundahl
Göteborg Sweden

[napata2]

emperor's old clothes

Bjorn
You are abusing the people on this liist by exploiting your technical expertise in economics even when your arguments are worhtless. (Blindinggthhem with econospeak!)the issue is about intellectual property rights. Windows or Linux from a direct user point of view is merely about user interface - the outcomes are the same in terms of documents. the issue of communism is complete nonsense and you know it. Munich and Bristol City go open source and you really can't pretend that they are communist. The closest issue is generic drugs! You would have to argue that it was dangerous for a government to insist that those citizens using public funds should use generics and not expensive proprietary versions. The idea that if you don't use microsoft products (most of my friends don't) you are suffering from digital deprivation is to laughable for words!!!! Even MS would be embarassed to say that! your technical arguments are so weak but you know you are in an environment where few know how to point this out!