Comments on: Longhorn photo support comes into focus

Microsoft is rallying industry support for "raw" digital photo formats which it says could ease picture editing and boost image quality.

[ewelch]

This article is so wrong

First you regurgitate whatever Microsoft says without even
checking their facts.

1: DNG is an OPEN FORMAT!!!!!! I can't believe Adobe is
participating in this without pushing DNG. That is a willfull lie on
Microsoft's part.

2: Camera manufacturers have NOT got decades worth of
proprietary data. They're still babes in the woods when it comes
to digital data and RAW formats. How else can one explain the
complete MESS RAW is now.

3: You can't print RAW data without working it up first. The data
has no white balance adustments, no tonality adjustments, no
sharpneing, that's what RAW means!

4: Microsof, if anything, is derailing any motivation to force
camera manufacturers into a single RAW format.

Which is a MUST! Why? Because as long as camera maufacturers
create these proprietary RAW formats we are victims of their
whims. They don't want to support an old format any more,
tough noogies. Our older pictures just became unusable. Can
you imaigne the screams from pro and amateurs alike if all of a
suddent we could no longer print from our negatives or slides?
There would be class action lawsuits out the wazoo.

Hey, that's what we need to do right now. Those old files from
the Kodak NC 2000e camera (or was it an earlier model?) that
are no longer supported by any software that runs on modern
operating systems (PC or Mac) should be the first class action
lawsuit by photographers.

And don't say "convert them to TIF or Jpeg." That's not an
option. That's like telling a professional photographer to just
scan his old print and don't bother going back to the original
negative. RAW files are our negatives. They give us the ability to
go back to the original, so we aren't victims of the generational
data loss every time you make a color adjustment, or the
artifacts from saving a file as jpeg.

This article was obviously written by a person who knows very
little about photography, and it's scary that Microsoft could be
so clueless about the real issues that we as photographers are
dealing with as we try to move into the digital age without
letting camera manufactuers hijace our photos so they can
charge a toll to allow us access to our own intellectual property.

Let the lawsuits begin!

[markdoiron]

Outdated Raw Formats

Eric--

just like one would not print a glass plate on a modern enlarger, you shouldn't expect for an old, proprietary image format to be supported into the far future. but, you should expect that the old capabilities you had will continue to work. if nothing else, keep that old software around and even an old pc, if necessary.

mark d.

[rsronce]

thank you!

Yes, CNet.com should be embarrased by this article. Was it written by the intern?

Take the phrase "raw files are pre-pixelized data that comes directly off of a camera's charge-coupled device, or CCD--one of two main image sensors in digital cameras" that has SO much wrong with it!

"Pre-pixelized"??? Whaaa??? ... meaningless.

"directly off the CCD" *or* CMOS sensor *or* Foveon-type. and NO its not "direct" it is at the very least de-mosaiced and often compressed. The differences in the intital processing of the sensor data are what really separate one camera from another.

"two main sensors" again ... whaaa??? My D70 has two sensors ... the capture sensor and the metering sensor but that's not at all common to all digicams and DSLRs.

[ewelch]

This article is so wrong

First you regurgitate whatever Microsoft says without even
checking their facts.

1: DNG is an OPEN FORMAT!!!!!! I can't believe Adobe is
participating in this without pushing DNG. That is a willfull lie on
Microsoft's part.

2: Camera manufacturers have NOT got decades worth of
proprietary data. They're still babes in the woods when it comes
to digital data and RAW formats. How else can one explain the
complete MESS RAW is now.

3: You can't print RAW data without working it up first. The data
has no white balance adustments, no tonality adjustments, no
sharpneing, that's what RAW means!

4: Microsof, if anything, is derailing any motivation to force
camera manufacturers into a single RAW format.

Which is a MUST! Why? Because as long as camera maufacturers
create these proprietary RAW formats we are victims of their
whims. They don't want to support an old format any more,
tough noogies. Our older pictures just became unusable. Can
you imaigne the screams from pro and amateurs alike if all of a
suddent we could no longer print from our negatives or slides?
There would be class action lawsuits out the wazoo.

Hey, that's what we need to do right now. Those old files from
the Kodak NC 2000e camera (or was it an earlier model?) that
are no longer supported by any software that runs on modern
operating systems (PC or Mac) should be the first class action
lawsuit by photographers.

And don't say "convert them to TIF or Jpeg." That's not an
option. That's like telling a professional photographer to just
scan his old print and don't bother going back to the original
negative. RAW files are our negatives. They give us the ability to
go back to the original, so we aren't victims of the generational
data loss every time you make a color adjustment, or the
artifacts from saving a file as jpeg.

This article was obviously written by a person who knows very
little about photography, and it's scary that Microsoft could be
so clueless about the real issues that we as photographers are
dealing with as we try to move into the digital age without
letting camera manufactuers hijace our photos so they can
charge a toll to allow us access to our own intellectual property.

Let the lawsuits begin!

[markdoiron]

Outdated Raw Formats

Eric--

just like one would not print a glass plate on a modern enlarger, you shouldn't expect for an old, proprietary image format to be supported into the far future. but, you should expect that the old capabilities you had will continue to work. if nothing else, keep that old software around and even an old pc, if necessary.

mark d.

[rsronce]

thank you!

Yes, CNet.com should be embarrased by this article. Was it written by the intern?

Take the phrase "raw files are pre-pixelized data that comes directly off of a camera's charge-coupled device, or CCD--one of two main image sensors in digital cameras" that has SO much wrong with it!

"Pre-pixelized"??? Whaaa??? ... meaningless.

"directly off the CCD" *or* CMOS sensor *or* Foveon-type. and NO its not "direct" it is at the very least de-mosaiced and often compressed. The differences in the intital processing of the sensor data are what really separate one camera from another.

"two main sensors" again ... whaaa??? My D70 has two sensors ... the capture sensor and the metering sensor but that's not at all common to all digicams and DSLRs.

[Llib Setag]

Longhorn - the little cow that could?

Is it just me or are we getting an ENORMOUS amount of PROMISES from Citizen Gates about the next coming of Bull as the CURE ALL, END ALL PROBLEMS OS in the world?

Sounds like make or break for MS, IF Longhorn comes up SHORT on deliveries / promises, Redmond will have a HUGE PROBLEM on it's hands.

Of course, you will not read about that from CNET (Bill's Blowhole).

[Llib Setag]

Longhorn - the little cow that could?

Is it just me or are we getting an ENORMOUS amount of PROMISES from Citizen Gates about the next coming of Bull as the CURE ALL, END ALL PROBLEMS OS in the world?

Sounds like make or break for MS, IF Longhorn comes up SHORT on deliveries / promises, Redmond will have a HUGE PROBLEM on it's hands.

Of course, you will not read about that from CNET (Bill's Blowhole).

[Llib Setag]

MS Death Star to Adobe/Macromedia/Apple

It is painfully obvious that Citizen Gates is out to be the Darth Vader of creativity computing.

MS has attempted for years to topple Adobe & Apple in the arenas of professional press publication, ColorSync, Acrobat & digital photo / video processing.

Citizen Gates even went to the great lengths of buying millions of photographic rights, building a huge digital photo database & opening Corbis as his own company outside of MS, so he could control & make billions of royalties from professional photographers & publishing houses.

MS has lamely attempted to put out "prosumer" PhotoPC software for years without success to the point that they have to give it away with "Discount Dells".

Citizen Gates has also attempted to alter & undermine native Java / Flash coding with "Windows-compatible" versions of their own "interpretations" of Java/Flash in order to derail & dillute NON-MS coding on the Internet.

Gates has recently be very public about developing an Adobe Acrobat PDF killer-app within ShorthornOS in 2006/07/08/??.

MS doesnot have a built-in / included "Apple iLife Suite" equivilant (not even close) with MSXP.

This is such a slimy attempt to kill Photoshop/iPhoto/RAW file protocols within the entire digital creative industry in order to have world dominance in the realm of digital media all being "managed" through MSOS.

DOJ are splineless drones bowing down to the one they serve. All Hail Darth Gates!

[muntz]

right

gates and co. simply realize that now that they've taken care of
the business OS/Application users of the world, they have to
catch up to what consumers are looking for in the "wonderful
world" of everything digital. there's money to be made with
software that controls and indexes digital media.

they've been trying to get Windows into everything that isn't
already sealed up by adobe and apple. they will make inroads
with DVD, online video, downloadable music, apps for
organizing personal photos and search options for all of the
above.

one thing that a lot of non-designer types do not realize is the
amount of work that adobe has done to get photoshop and
illustrator to work well with fonts. even MS knows they cannot
topple this without buying adobe outright.

the dirty secret of the publishing industry is the lack of truly
brainless font management that is still needed. i still run into
font problems once in a while that would topple someone that
has only used MS's office suite. MS can't even get their OS
buttoned up correctly, how in the world could they ever compete
with professional typesetting not to mention color calibration.

and please, if you're working on a wintel box that never gives
you problems AND you're working for a huge publishing house
or ad agency, then you are an anomoly that owns a magic
system. or, you never use a lot of different typefaces.

[Llib Setag]

MS Death Star to Adobe/Macromedia/Apple

It is painfully obvious that Citizen Gates is out to be the Darth Vader of creativity computing.

MS has attempted for years to topple Adobe & Apple in the arenas of professional press publication, ColorSync, Acrobat & digital photo / video processing.

Citizen Gates even went to the great lengths of buying millions of photographic rights, building a huge digital photo database & opening Corbis as his own company outside of MS, so he could control & make billions of royalties from professional photographers & publishing houses.

MS has lamely attempted to put out "prosumer" PhotoPC software for years without success to the point that they have to give it away with "Discount Dells".

Citizen Gates has also attempted to alter & undermine native Java / Flash coding with "Windows-compatible" versions of their own "interpretations" of Java/Flash in order to derail & dillute NON-MS coding on the Internet.

Gates has recently be very public about developing an Adobe Acrobat PDF killer-app within ShorthornOS in 2006/07/08/??.

MS doesnot have a built-in / included "Apple iLife Suite" equivilant (not even close) with MSXP.

This is such a slimy attempt to kill Photoshop/iPhoto/RAW file protocols within the entire digital creative industry in order to have world dominance in the realm of digital media all being "managed" through MSOS.

DOJ are splineless drones bowing down to the one they serve. All Hail Darth Gates!

[muntz]

right

gates and co. simply realize that now that they've taken care of
the business OS/Application users of the world, they have to
catch up to what consumers are looking for in the "wonderful
world" of everything digital. there's money to be made with
software that controls and indexes digital media.

they've been trying to get Windows into everything that isn't
already sealed up by adobe and apple. they will make inroads
with DVD, online video, downloadable music, apps for
organizing personal photos and search options for all of the
above.

one thing that a lot of non-designer types do not realize is the
amount of work that adobe has done to get photoshop and
illustrator to work well with fonts. even MS knows they cannot
topple this without buying adobe outright.

the dirty secret of the publishing industry is the lack of truly
brainless font management that is still needed. i still run into
font problems once in a while that would topple someone that
has only used MS's office suite. MS can't even get their OS
buttoned up correctly, how in the world could they ever compete
with professional typesetting not to mention color calibration.

and please, if you're working on a wintel box that never gives
you problems AND you're working for a huge publishing house
or ad agency, then you are an anomoly that owns a magic
system. or, you never use a lot of different typefaces.

[JLP]

OpenRAW is proper solution

What MS is doing is not a proper solution. What we need is open standard so that anyone uses it and can use it without restrictions. OpenRAW is much better solution for this problem. We don't need more closed and pripriatery formats from monopolies like Microsoft. We all know how good they are at using their monopoly ilegaly.

OpenRAW:
http://www.openraw.org/

[JLP]

OpenRAW is proper solution

What MS is doing is not a proper solution. What we need is open standard so that anyone uses it and can use it without restrictions. OpenRAW is much better solution for this problem. We don't need more closed and pripriatery formats from monopolies like Microsoft. We all know how good they are at using their monopoly ilegaly.

OpenRAW:
http://www.openraw.org/

Apple's been there, done that

And Microsoft needs until early 2007?

Perhaps Microsoft ought to change it's name to Microsoftosaurus?

Apple's been there, done that

And Microsoft needs until early 2007?

Perhaps Microsoft ought to change it's name to Microsoftosaurus?