Comments on: Microsoft: Legit Windows or no updates
Company plans to require customers to verify their copy of Windows is genuine before downloading patches, other add-ons.
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If Microsoft wants everyone to have a legit copy of Windows then either they need to lower the price for low income people or people that simply can't afford the high price of Windows XP or the government needs to step in and say that as long as your have a monopoly that you have to support all users even those using pirated copies.
Personally, I think it is long over due that Microsoft drop the price of Windows to $50 or $60. They have plenty of other software that is not so criticle to users (you really can't have a viable PC without Windows) that they can make their money off of.
Until this happens Microsoft is basically using their illegal monopoly to hold people at gun point for money. You either pay the nice man what he wants or you risk your data's security and your privacy because Microsoft is incapable of releasing a product that isn't loaded with security flaws.
Robert
I ordered my first Mac since my Apple 2E god knows how long ago last Friday. Brilliant move MS. Thanks. Do us all one more favor and make Windows completely subscription based. Please.
Microsoft is obligated, in my opinion, to make the experience of windows as pleasant as possible for it's 'customers'. I don't blame them for trying to stop piracy, but how much will this effort work to thwart piracy?
I do think that Microsoft, due to its dominance, should be required to share more with its competition in reguards to connectivity and software developement for their platform.
I am certainly glad it passed my little laptop and Dell (I always wondered how honest Dell was [wink wink nod nod]). Thank God above, Dell is a legit Windows seller!
I wonder what the need is for this when it is widely known that the Dell-supplied Windows XP only runs on the Dell computers anyway. Moreover, it is already Activated, so wherein and what exactly still must be validated?
I would also wonder what happens to PC users who buy a legit system with legit Windows, then upgrade the motherboard in the machine. Since one must enter the PC maker name, this suggests that the validation system has potential to lock out a legit user who has simply upgraded his or her motherboard.
It seems to me that regulators at the state and federal level should carefully review the potential implications here. It seems to me that there is the possibility that this move by MS could have the effect of binding PC component buyers to MS-approved partners in terms of replacement parts for PCs. It could lock aftermarket board makers like ASUS clean out of the market.
There?s also the question of a person who privately pays for a full Windows copy and then wants to move that Windows to a new PC when the first one eventually dies. Surely in the case of a full price OS purchase it is anticompetitive to suggest that the full price product cannot be moved between systems provided it is removed from the old system first. In such a case a full price Windows copy bought standalone in a store, is NOT associated with a PC vendor or small mom and pop PC builder store at all, and yet "Validation" still requires this info. It makes no logical sense.
To argue that the FULL Windows CD cannot be moved to a new PC would be to suggest that a legit Rolex could not be purchased and then transferred to another arm after being worn first on the first arm. I mention the Rolex analogy because at least one news story cited an MS defender saying MS is only doing what it is fair to do with hard property like Rolexes. (Just as one cannot expect service for a false Rolex one cannot expect service on a fake OS).
It seems to me that the Rolex analogy is moot, because fake Rolex's present no security threat to the rest of the civilized world. Not so with unpatched Windows copies, legit or not, as they are virus and spyware havens, if MS is to be believed (wink wink nod nod)..
My boxed retail copy of Windows XP Profession has been retired as a souvenir because it no longer works for the original owner! Morons at Microsoft wonder why bootleg copies of their "VLK" software is popular with the public. Wake up!!!
If MicroSoft were to come out with a really secure OS then they should charge a fair price for it and not try to gouge everybody for a peice of junk. As it stands now I feel that they owe each of their legitamate costumers a new and secure OS for 1/4 the cost of what they plan on selling them for.
Microsoft can kiss my @$$
Just what else do you think is different between the Home and Pro versions?
But let me ask the Microsoft guys this. What good does it do anybody if Microsoft stays dominant?
When you lean to hard on one leg all it takes is one good kick and you are on the floor.
Sounds to me this can be exploited.
What if there were a virus that changed the legit key on a person's computer to a pirated key. As a result a person who legitimately paid for the OS would be unable to get the security holes fixed because of Microsoft's policy allowing the computer to be exploited.
Those idiots wonder why we might be tempted to use a bootleg VLK copy of their software. Just how else are we supposed to deal with corporate greed???
Keep your mouth shut or just switch to anything but MS and then they will either die or do what they say and build a secure and really viable system.
Put up or just shut up and be abused.
these people at microsoft need a serious reality check.
Hackers, spammers and virus makers will be very gratefull to Bill Gates and coworkers.
Since the article has been written, Microsoft has made many changes to their Genuine Advantage Tool and with these changes, there have always come new problems, and new ways to "pirate" around it. In the latest version of this tool, I have found and seen a number of problems, and even had to find a work-around myself for these reasons. Also, on an additional note, I find that it does not quite apply to retail versions of Windows XP. First of all I'm going to give you all a few scenarios why this tool is not right for the people or companies and why there is such an uproar over this little "devil's advocate."
Scenario 1 (Corporate Professional Volume License)(this would be a similar situation to me but the names and locations have been changed for protection purposes:
Joe works for a large bank company. The bank company bought thousands of licenses to install or upgrade to Windows XP Corporate (Volume License Edition) on all of there computers. They do this by creating ghost images of one copy of the OS because it is faster to deploy on multiple systems, giving all of their systems the same CD key.
Joe has a copy of this installed on his laptop so that he can take his work home with him. Someone within the bank company that Joe works for "leaks" the CD key all over the internet.
Not known to Joe's knowledge or the bank for that matter, Microsoft catches wind of this leaked CD key and "blacklists" the CD key... At the same time not realizing that the key was under license of this large bank company.
About a week later Joe decides to go to Windows Update because he needs to get a critical security update that he read about online earlier because his laptop could be broken into and have bank records stolen. He goes there, runs the "Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool" and it tells him that his CD key is invalid.
After yelling a few obcenitites at his laptop, Joe calls his boss and tells him what happened.
First Joe's boss had the other users in his division check their computers against Windows Update and all get the same error (remember, all of the systems in this bank all have the same CD key).
Joe's boss then calls the IT department of the bank and tells them of the problem. One of the guys in IT (let's call him Rick) tries to figure out how this problem occurred to no luck and no possible end in sight, it finally results in a very costly call to Microsoft.
This call results in Microsoft telling Rick "I'm very sorry sir, but it appears that your CD key has been made invalid by our staff for the reason that it has been leaked over the internet. The only way you can fix this problem is to buy all new licenses and CD keys and reinstall Windows XP. Again, we are very sorry for the inconvienece sir."
After yelling a few obcenities at the Microsoft representative, Rick hangs up the phone and calls the IT director (let's call her Susan) of the entire company and notifies her of the problem at hand. She replies "That's preposterous. There is no way that the the vice president of operations is going to go for spending thousands more in new licenses and a total re-install of all systems. We don't have time for that. Tell me Rick, is there anyway you can find a workaround?" Rick replies "Well, not anyway legally except for what Microsoft said." Susan replies "Legally?" Rick then replies "yeah, I mean, I suppose I could go out on the internet and look for a 'crack' for this Genuine Advantage Tool thing but they aren't considered legal because that's promoting software piracy." Susan replies "You know, normally I would not recommend that you do that, but given our current situation and timing, I'll give you the go ahead to find one and we'll distribute it later as a neccessary software update for all of our computers if you do." Rick replies "Alright, I'll find one."
Rick then finds a crack tool, CD key generator, or a file replacement from the internet, and tries them and finally lands on one that works. The company then saves a cracked file to the companies main software distribution server and sends a message to all in the company to install it right away and go to Windows Update.
Back to Joe, he get's the file, installs it on his laptop, goes to Windows Update and gets that critical security update without a problem.
The problem is that Microsoft blacklisted the CD key not taking into account that it might be in use by an entire company.
Scenario 2 (OEM Windows XP)(I had a friend in almost the same situation as this):
A computer company like HP for example may distrbute thousands of computers with the same CD key under an OEM licensing agreement. This is actually very similar to Volume Licensing, however can apply to any OEM version of Windows XP such as Home, Professional, or Media Center. OEM also only applies to system builders such as HP, Gateway, Dell, and so on. Volume License normally only applies to Windows XP Professional.
In this situation, let's say that HP distrbuted at least 2300 brand new PCs to multiple Walmarts across America. All of these PCs have either Windows XP Home Edition OEM or Windows XP Media Center Edition OEM and all have the same CD key.
Either someone at HP, or one of the purchasers of one of these computers leaks the CD key over the internet. Microsoft catches wind of this leaked CD key and simply "blacklists" the key.
Slowly but surely these systems get bought up at Walmart stores all over the country... and slowly but surely, each purchaser of one of these new PCs inches their way over to Windows Update. They each try to update their computers only to be told that their CD key is invalid which usually reslts in one of the following:
A call to HP by which, they simply send the purchaser a new key.
A call to Microsoft by which usually results in hearing: "I'm very sorry, but it appears that your CD key has been made invalid by our staff for the reason that it has been leaked over the internet. The only way you can fix this problem is to buy a new CD key or copy of Windows XP and reinstall. Again, we are very sorry for the inconvienece."
The compter being returned to Walmart and the customer either asking for their money back or another PC which could result in it's return as well and Walmart losses money.
The computer being sent back to HP.
The computer being taken to a repair shop, at which the shop simply just finds a workaround and charges the customer an outrageous amount for something that they found for free.
The customer calls over their neighbor to help fix the problem, usually which ends up resulting in it being taken to a shop anyway unless the neighbor already is a tech.
Walmart ends up sending several "faulty PCs" back to HP and gets back a bunch of new ones all with new keys.
Now, my question is, what happens if another one of these keys gets leaked?
Given those two scenarios, you really have to ask "What is Microsoft thinking?" I think I've figured out the answer to that in one very interesting situation.
I've actually tried two very widely distributed retail copies of Windows XP and happen to find that they validated without a problem. What's really interesting is that I "cracked" the Windows Activation time limit and also found these retail copies of XP on a file sharing site/program, and they still validated. This was all done in experiment of course just to see what the whole point to this little tool was.
I found that it looks like Microsoft just wants to make people buy their operating system for $150-$300 that's already outdated or about to be outdated and it's simply not worth it to me.
There was a time where was a time when Microsoft did not force people to buy copies of their OS because they had the profits of all their other software to rely on. I mean, hell, even if we don't purchase windows, we still have to buy that $300 copy of MS Office 2003, or some other really expensive Microsoft program. I am one that believes that forcing someone to buy a copy of an operating system is wrong when a company like Microsoft has thousands of other things out there, as well as contracts and other deals with thousands of companies to distribute their hardware and software. I also think it is wrong for the reason that it is an operating system. In otherwords, it is required in order to operate a computer. Why would you spend hundereds of dollars for something that you should get with your computer for free without hassel?
Another reason I believe that this way of forcing people to get buy this OS is wrong, is well, I did a little research, and you can do this too. Simply look up the price of a prebuilt computer on the web, like one by Dell, Gateway, or HP, and compare as if you were to build the same computer with all the same hardware and software yourself. Minus the price of Windows XP from the list of parts you'd have to buy. You'll find that the price of building the system without XP, or without purchasing XP, is almost exactly the same as a prebuilt system you'd buy online with the same parts. Give or take a few dollars for profit. Maybe close to $50 or $100 more for the one online, maybe way less.
Why is this? Microsoft does not charge these large companies for distrbuting their OS, and therefore the customer does not get charged for it as well. You may get charged a little more for upgrading from Home Edition to Professional for example, not that much more. Maybe a little more for Media Center due to additional hardware.
Anyway, that's my opinion,
Thnak you.
- Microsoft: Forcing Piracy, or forcing more people to buy..
- by Starkiller5 April 22, 2006 2:36 PM PDT
- Hi there all,
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
Showing 2 of 3 pages (103 Comments)Since the article has been written, Microsoft has made many changes to their Genuine Advantage Tool and with these changes, there have always come new problems, and new ways to "pirate" around it. In the latest version of this tool, I have found and seen a number of problems, and even had to find a work-around myself for these reasons. Also, on an additional note, I find that it does not quite apply to retail versions of Windows XP. First of all I'm going to give you all a few scenarios why this tool is not right for the people or companies and why there is such an uproar over this little "devil's advocate."
Scenario 1 (Corporate Professional Volume License)(this would be a similar situation to me but the names and locations have been changed for protection purposes:
Joe works for a large bank company. The bank company bought thousands of licenses to install or upgrade to Windows XP Corporate (Volume License Edition) on all of there computers. They do this by creating ghost images of one copy of the OS because it is faster to deploy on multiple systems, giving all of their systems the same CD key.
Joe has a copy of this installed on his laptop so that he can take his work home with him. Someone within the bank company that Joe works for "leaks" the CD key all over the internet.
Not known to Joe's knowledge or the bank for that matter, Microsoft catches wind of this leaked CD key and "blacklists" the CD key... At the same time not realizing that the key was under license of this large bank company.
About a week later Joe decides to go to Windows Update because he needs to get a critical security update that he read about online earlier because his laptop could be broken into and have bank records stolen. He goes there, runs the "Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool" and it tells him that his CD key is invalid.
After yelling a few obcenitites at his laptop, Joe calls his boss and tells him what happened.
First Joe's boss had the other users in his division check their computers against Windows Update and all get the same error (remember, all of the systems in this bank all have the same CD key).
Joe's boss then calls the IT department of the bank and tells them of the problem. One of the guys in IT (let's call him Rick) tries to figure out how this problem occurred to no luck and no possible end in sight, it finally results in a very costly call to Microsoft.
This call results in Microsoft telling Rick "I'm very sorry sir, but it appears that your CD key has been made invalid by our staff for the reason that it has been leaked over the internet. The only way you can fix this problem is to buy all new licenses and CD keys and reinstall Windows XP. Again, we are very sorry for the inconvienece sir."
After yelling a few obcenities at the Microsoft representative, Rick hangs up the phone and calls the IT director (let's call her Susan) of the entire company and notifies her of the problem at hand. She replies "That's preposterous. There is no way that the the vice president of operations is going to go for spending thousands more in new licenses and a total re-install of all systems. We don't have time for that. Tell me Rick, is there anyway you can find a workaround?" Rick replies "Well, not anyway legally except for what Microsoft said." Susan replies "Legally?" Rick then replies "yeah, I mean, I suppose I could go out on the internet and look for a 'crack' for this Genuine Advantage Tool thing but they aren't considered legal because that's promoting software piracy." Susan replies "You know, normally I would not recommend that you do that, but given our current situation and timing, I'll give you the go ahead to find one and we'll distribute it later as a neccessary software update for all of our computers if you do." Rick replies "Alright, I'll find one."
Rick then finds a crack tool, CD key generator, or a file replacement from the internet, and tries them and finally lands on one that works. The company then saves a cracked file to the companies main software distribution server and sends a message to all in the company to install it right away and go to Windows Update.
Back to Joe, he get's the file, installs it on his laptop, goes to Windows Update and gets that critical security update without a problem.
The problem is that Microsoft blacklisted the CD key not taking into account that it might be in use by an entire company.
Scenario 2 (OEM Windows XP)(I had a friend in almost the same situation as this):
A computer company like HP for example may distrbute thousands of computers with the same CD key under an OEM licensing agreement. This is actually very similar to Volume Licensing, however can apply to any OEM version of Windows XP such as Home, Professional, or Media Center. OEM also only applies to system builders such as HP, Gateway, Dell, and so on. Volume License normally only applies to Windows XP Professional.
In this situation, let's say that HP distrbuted at least 2300 brand new PCs to multiple Walmarts across America. All of these PCs have either Windows XP Home Edition OEM or Windows XP Media Center Edition OEM and all have the same CD key.
Either someone at HP, or one of the purchasers of one of these computers leaks the CD key over the internet. Microsoft catches wind of this leaked CD key and simply "blacklists" the key.
Slowly but surely these systems get bought up at Walmart stores all over the country... and slowly but surely, each purchaser of one of these new PCs inches their way over to Windows Update. They each try to update their computers only to be told that their CD key is invalid which usually reslts in one of the following:
A call to HP by which, they simply send the purchaser a new key.
A call to Microsoft by which usually results in hearing: "I'm very sorry, but it appears that your CD key has been made invalid by our staff for the reason that it has been leaked over the internet. The only way you can fix this problem is to buy a new CD key or copy of Windows XP and reinstall. Again, we are very sorry for the inconvienece."
The compter being returned to Walmart and the customer either asking for their money back or another PC which could result in it's return as well and Walmart losses money.
The computer being sent back to HP.
The computer being taken to a repair shop, at which the shop simply just finds a workaround and charges the customer an outrageous amount for something that they found for free.
The customer calls over their neighbor to help fix the problem, usually which ends up resulting in it being taken to a shop anyway unless the neighbor already is a tech.
Walmart ends up sending several "faulty PCs" back to HP and gets back a bunch of new ones all with new keys.
Now, my question is, what happens if another one of these keys gets leaked?
Given those two scenarios, you really have to ask "What is Microsoft thinking?" I think I've figured out the answer to that in one very interesting situation.
I've actually tried two very widely distributed retail copies of Windows XP and happen to find that they validated without a problem. What's really interesting is that I "cracked" the Windows Activation time limit and also found these retail copies of XP on a file sharing site/program, and they still validated. This was all done in experiment of course just to see what the whole point to this little tool was.
I found that it looks like Microsoft just wants to make people buy their operating system for $150-$300 that's already outdated or about to be outdated and it's simply not worth it to me.
There was a time where was a time when Microsoft did not force people to buy copies of their OS because they had the profits of all their other software to rely on. I mean, hell, even if we don't purchase windows, we still have to buy that $300 copy of MS Office 2003, or some other really expensive Microsoft program. I am one that believes that forcing someone to buy a copy of an operating system is wrong when a company like Microsoft has thousands of other things out there, as well as contracts and other deals with thousands of companies to distribute their hardware and software. I also think it is wrong for the reason that it is an operating system. In otherwords, it is required in order to operate a computer. Why would you spend hundereds of dollars for something that you should get with your computer for free without hassel?
Another reason I believe that this way of forcing people to get buy this OS is wrong, is well, I did a little research, and you can do this too. Simply look up the price of a prebuilt computer on the web, like one by Dell, Gateway, or HP, and compare as if you were to build the same computer with all the same hardware and software yourself. Minus the price of Windows XP from the list of parts you'd have to buy. You'll find that the price of building the system without XP, or without purchasing XP, is almost exactly the same as a prebuilt system you'd buy online with the same parts. Give or take a few dollars for profit. Maybe close to $50 or $100 more for the one online, maybe way less.
Why is this? Microsoft does not charge these large companies for distrbuting their OS, and therefore the customer does not get charged for it as well. You may get charged a little more for upgrading from Home Edition to Professional for example, not that much more. Maybe a little more for Media Center due to additional hardware.
Anyway, that's my opinion,
Thnak you.