Comments on: Senate bill gives Americans preference for tech jobs
Concerns about abuse of H-1B visas have prompted bipartisan proposal that would place restrictions on companies making foreign hires.
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75% who will then be out of a job ? Let them take other jobs in the
US ?
You guys always talk about those H1b workers that are underpaid, the fact is that 90% of my friends are paid higher or as much as their American colleagues.
Its an open secret that Wipro, INFY and TCS use these visas for their workers to visit US and even more work at the Client location (which is illegal in case of L-1 and B-1).
Unless there is enforcement, there is no point bringing in fancy laws. The H1-B, L-1 and B-1 have enough teeth in them, but the immigration is not enforcing them properly.
Most companies still have some operating branches in US due availability of H1s to fill those positions. Atleast H1 visas ensure that jobs stay in US, not to mention the contribution of H1B employees to the US economy overall, remember these are above average pay jobs mandated by department of labor.
What will a company do if it could not get people with necessary skills due to these restrictions?
Because it is very difficult and not cost-effective to outsource the projects partially, this will lead to a forced "wholesale" outsourcing, and as a direct result American workers would actually loose even more jobs.
I bet the outcome would be quite opposite to the intended result...
What will a company do if it could not get people with necessary skills due to these restrictions?
Because it is very difficult and not cost-effective to outsource the projects partially, this will lead to a forced "wholesale" outsourcing, and as a direct result American workers would actually loose even more jobs.
I bet the outcome would be quite opposite to the intended result...
I am working for US company for 4 years already as outsourced contractor (software architect). Because I was unable to get H1B yet (applied in 2006, 2007), so I am forced to live overseas and employ team of programmers here instead of US.
I am the only person that knows about the system (software/hardware), so it is pretty hard to replace me with US worker.
So if I do not get H1B, all the income/taxes will be paid overseas and jobs will be outsourced. If I would be in US we would hire US developers for sure.
For my company it is very exceptional circumstances - they can not replace me yet, they can not hire people in US even if they want to.
In reality US lost 100's of thousands of dollars just because of 1 H1B. I wonder how many examples like me are there....
Many high-tech workers that are today Americans started with either an H1 or as a student. Some come with families, are highly educated and some did not really have to come and suffer the slow process of immigration.
US should, for it's own benefit, completely overhaul the system and make it easy for desired immigrants to complete the process quickly and make it so undesired/not-so-desired people know the outcome as early on as possible if not right at the beginning of the process.
Although I will say that there needs to be a moral awakening in America. Americans needs to get off the couches, and away from the video games and GET INTO SCHOOL!
The choice is not between American Citizen and H1-B immigrant for one open tech position. The choice is - can we hire the suff we need (taking in, maybe, 20% of the stuff on H1-B) for this particular tech project here in US - or we HAVE TO OUTSOURCE THE WHOLE PROJECT somewhere, say, to Bangalore or China? And if we can't hire here in U.S. - then this whole project "goes south", taking remaining 80% of tech positions away with it.
That is the REAL story that needs to be passed to every American Citizen, including citizen the1kingarthur!
The choice is not between American Citizen and H1-B immigrant for one open tech position. The choice is - can we hire the suff we need (taking in, maybe, 20% of the stuff on H1-B) for this particular tech project here in US - or we HAVE TO OUTSOURCE THE WHOLE PROJECT somewhere, say, to Bangalore or China? And if we can't hire here in U.S. - then this whole project "goes south", taking remaining 80% of tech positions away with it.
That is the REAL story that needs to be passed to every American Citizen, including citizen the1kingarthur!
It is funny to know that lawmakers who are making big hue and cry about H1B visa....really don't know what many H1b visa holders are going through. Why the law does not talk about the criminal punishment for companies and its officers who don't treat their H1B visa holder employees like a normal employee?
Few of the mistreatment given to legal immigrants is:
? Not paying the salary promised at the time of hiring.
? No health benefits as offered
? Not giving salary if employer cannot find paying consulting work for employee
? Not giving health benefits offered at the time of hiring
? Not paying for hotel, transport and food when sent to work temporarily at clients location for consulting projects.
This list can go on and on?.
This does not mean that all the companies who hire on H1B treat their employees badly, it was our bad luck that we were a pray to such company.
My wife went through hell. She is master in computer applications and after she left her job in India in 2001 and came to USA, we found that things that were promised to us were just a carrot to get us here and work like slaves. I was not going to be the one who will take it quietly. I could not see my wife suffering physically and mentally. After finding out about what we can do to find other employer (which is not easy at all for H1B visa holders). We could not go back to India as both of us had resigned from job and wound up our life there.
We could not find a lawyer who will understand the immigration laws and how company can be implicated. Many suggest filing law suit in labor dept...but that is not a justice for us for the misery that we went through. Finally we found a friend who took up our case after hearing our sad story.
We filed the case in 2003 against our employer who brought us to USA in 2001. Today we are awaiting the judgment in our case in the 8th circuit federal court. This can be land mark judgment and warning to all companies who are misusing the visa.
How come this went on for such a long time and nothing is being done about to it to make it right? This is LEGAL slavery going unnoticed.
Law makers are not bothered as legal immigrants are not vote bank. Citizens don't know what is happening as they are unaware of the immigration procedures and misery that a legal immigrant goes though.
I hope there is somebody powerful enough to understand how this law is misused by companies to make high profits and reducing the salary of IT professionals in USA.
It is funny to know that lawmakers who are making big hue and cry about H1B visa....really don't know what many H1b visa holders are going through. Why the law does not talk about the criminal punishment for companies and its officers who don't treat their H1B visa holder employees like a normal employee?
Few of the mistreatment given to legal immigrants is:
? Not paying the salary promised at the time of hiring.
? No health benefits as offered
? Not giving salary if employer cannot find paying consulting work for employee
? Not giving health benefits offered at the time of hiring
? Not paying for hotel, transport and food when sent to work temporarily at clients location for consulting projects.
This list can go on and on?.
This does not mean that all the companies who hire on H1B treat their employees badly, it was our bad luck that we were a pray to such company.
My wife went through hell. She is master in computer applications and after she left her job in India in 2001 and came to USA, we found that things that were promised to us were just a carrot to get us here and work like slaves. I was not going to be the one who will take it quietly. I could not see my wife suffering physically and mentally. After finding out about what we can do to find other employer (which is not easy at all for H1B visa holders). We could not go back to India as both of us had resigned from job and wound up our life there.
We could not find a lawyer who will understand the immigration laws and how company can be implicated. Many suggest filing law suit in labor dept...but that is not a justice for us for the misery that we went through. Finally we found a friend who took up our case after hearing our sad story.
We filed the case in 2003 against our employer who brought us to USA in 2001. Today we are awaiting the judgment in our case in the 8th circuit federal court. This can be land mark judgment and warning to all companies who are misusing the visa.
How come this went on for such a long time and nothing is being done about to it to make it right? This is LEGAL slavery going unnoticed.
Law makers are not bothered as legal immigrants are not vote bank. Citizens don't know what is happening as they are unaware of the immigration procedures and misery that a legal immigrant goes though.
I hope there is somebody powerful enough to understand how this law is misused by companies to make high profits and reducing the salary of IT professionals in USA.
What the tech company lobby is REALLY saying is "if we only had skilled workers available in the US for the kind of 3rd-world wages and benefits we pay in Bangalore, WOW, think of what we could do." Those are the 'lost jobs' that the tech company lobby keeps talking about. And, yes, they are absolutely correct: if only we had an untouchable class, and no social safety net, and rampant pollution, and no health benefits, and no government oversight of business whatsoever, we could really be a successful country with a booming economy. Life would be awesome for those not at the bottom of the heap.
As I see the situation, those problems are symptoms of two US problems: laziness and greed. Before technology allowed the workforce to be globalized and before there were H1-B visas (or at least before they were well known), American companies had to rely on American employees and legal immigrants. They had to pay market rates for those employees. As demand rose, salaries rose. Job hopping became a great way to increase one's salary. What's more, we Americans found we could be lazier, doing less for more money because the employers were just happy to get what they could from us.
Eventually, employers were pinched between costs and income, and looking good to the stock market. Buyers wanted ever cheaper products and services and employees wanted ever higher salaries and more benefits. Other countries began to compete more heavily with US companies. Japan, Korea, China, etc. were producing faster, better, and/or cheaper products (sometimes with slave labor). That put more pressure on the income side for employers. They had to find ways to cut costs, which would look good to the markets.
We US employees didn't want to take pay cuts; quite the opposite. Employers needed to look elsewhere to reduce their employee costs. Countries like India had intelligent, capable, hard working people who were thrilled to come to the US and work for less than Americans or to work for the outsourcing companies at home for more than they could earn otherwise. Those employees weren't making nearly as much as the Americans, but they had the skills to do what was needed. Thus, outsourcing and H1-B employees returned companies to profitability.
The backlash is that the employers only remain in business because so much of their workforce is underpaid and not American. This makes them less than ideal citizens of this country. However, if they cease operations, whatever American employees they have will not have a job. Continuing operations keeps at least some jobs here and earns our Government some taxes.
Another problem arises once companies avail themselves of outsourcing and using H1-B employees: abuse. As some have written here, employers can cheat or lowball the foreign workers through various means. That increases profitability, but leads to an unmotivated and even rebellious workforce. It also artificially lowers the pay scale making it nearly impossible to hire Americans for the same positions, locking the employers into foreign workforces.
Improving the education of Americans will help, but I'm not sure our education is so poor that we can't do most of the work that needs done. Reducing our expectations and standard of living will help far more. If we didn't expect to live in McMansions with multiple Hummers parked near our pools watching our home theaters the day after we move out of our parents' home, and instead learned to save money, spend wisely and within our means, etc., we could live happily on lower salaries. With that, we might find ourselves employable again.
an American would earn in a given tech job.
Then obtain payroll information (IRS) from the American based
tech companies for their foreign workforce stateside, and wages
of those jobs they've outsourced overseas.
Compare the two.
The difference will be a new tax those companies will have to
pay each year!
No doubt, US is getting a lot of profit in recruiting skilled foreigners. The MNC's can list the total strength of foreign workers and their contribution to the organizations and in turn to the countries profit. Why then such a treatment for people who bring so much profit to the country. The job opportunities for natives is put to danger. Why not motivate the native people to come in par with the skill set of foreigners. Why not use the foreigners to improve the skill set of natives. Thereby get profit on one hand and improvements on the other.
Fixing a cap is the main reason for these problems. All employers(including consultants) are trying to apply for as many as applicants as possible, whether all are utilized or all get clients is in the next level. This also raises questions like, are there so many job opportunities in this country. If so are these applicant all genuine and truly skilled. The fixed cap size has even given rise to fraud guys who some how manage to get H1B and then play around the system. This clearly states that fixing the cap doesn't hold good any more. Making it a year round process and bringing strict rules in recruitment makes more sense.
Is lottery the real solution. In this process, the probability of selection is approx 1 in 3. This 1 who gets selected can be unskilled guy who managed to apply through sources but will not get client or who will not be utilized at all and hence doesn't bring any profit to the country. The 3 others can be real skill set required in the market. Then is the lottery system the right way to play with job opportunities.
All this calls for a change in rule which needs to be framed very carefully taking into considerations every nook and corner.
- by Jake92839 May 23, 2008 6:10 PM PDT
- Where do we report employers that hire an H-1B or L-1 instead of a qualified American? I found out this happened to me.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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(32 Comments)'m a qualified American yet companies refuse to interview me. Why? How many years do I have to go without a job? It also makes no sense to say to the American scientist such as myself, "I'm sorry to tell you but we prefer to hire non-American citizens even though you are qualified for the position." "You mean nothing to us and you can not help this country."