Comments on: 'No alternative' to Microsoft fine

Wielding a $357 million charge, EU antitrust chief Neelie Kroes expects full compliance. And she has an eye on Vista.

[extinctone]

It's a start.

Bill Gates and Steve Balmer should be serving jail time, im my opinion, for all the harm they have cause to society. But at least this is a step in the right direction.

[yokosuka911]

Educate yourself

Harm to society? Here are just a few of the things Bill Gates has done recenlty in the name of helping his fellow human being (there are many more examples):

1. Global health:
-Gave The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization a donation of US$750 million on 25 January 2005.

-Gave The Institute for OneWorld Health a donation of nearly US$10 million to support the organization's work on a drug for visceral leishmaniasis (VL).

-Gave the Children's Vaccine Program, run by the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health (PATH), a donation of US$27 million to help vaccinate against Japanese encephalitis on 9 December 2003.

-Gave approximately US$30 million for the foundation of the new Department of Global Health at the University of Washington in Seattle. The donation promoted three of the Foundation's target areas: education, Pacific Northwest and global health.

[J_Satch]

Yeah, it's a darn fine start...

...for the money grubbing eu. Exactly what harm to society are you referring to, the near extinction of western civilization brought about by the bundling of a media player with an OS?

Alot of things about M$ stink but this is nothing more than a money grab by the eu.

[extinctone]

It's a start.

Bill Gates and Steve Balmer should be serving jail time, im my opinion, for all the harm they have cause to society. But at least this is a step in the right direction.

[J_Satch]

Yeah, it's a darn fine start...

...for the money grubbing eu. Exactly what harm to society are you referring to, the near extinction of western civilization brought about by the bundling of a media player with an OS?

Alot of things about M$ stink but this is nothing more than a money grab by the eu.

[yokosuka911]

Educate yourself

Harm to society? Here are just a few of the things Bill Gates has done recenlty in the name of helping his fellow human being (there are many more examples):

1. Global health:
-Gave The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization a donation of US$750 million on 25 January 2005.

-Gave The Institute for OneWorld Health a donation of nearly US$10 million to support the organization's work on a drug for visceral leishmaniasis (VL).

-Gave the Children's Vaccine Program, run by the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health (PATH), a donation of US$27 million to help vaccinate against Japanese encephalitis on 9 December 2003.

-Gave approximately US$30 million for the foundation of the new Department of Global Health at the University of Washington in Seattle. The donation promoted three of the Foundation's target areas: education, Pacific Northwest and global health.

[hadaso]

how to document protocols...

From the article:
"... Microsoft does not understand the principles of how to document protocols in order to achieve interoperability."

Well, Microsoft DOES understand the principles of how to document protocols in order NOT to achieve interoperability.

[hadaso]

how to document protocols...

From the article:
"... Microsoft does not understand the principles of how to document protocols in order to achieve interoperability."

Well, Microsoft DOES understand the principles of how to document protocols in order NOT to achieve interoperability.

[Mr. Network]

If I were Microsoft

I would ignore the fine. What is the EU gonna do? Send the French after us? By the time a decision to cut off Windows XP sales in Europe, new products will be available. This simply appears to me as the EU trying to show it's 'tough', when in reality, europe the equivelent to NY, too mad at each other to really be effective as a whole.

[Mr. Network]

If I were Microsoft

I would ignore the fine. What is the EU gonna do? Send the French after us? By the time a decision to cut off Windows XP sales in Europe, new products will be available. This simply appears to me as the EU trying to show it's 'tough', when in reality, europe the equivelent to NY, too mad at each other to really be effective as a whole.

[trapper1964]

competition commissioner ??

The EU has no idea how to compete.

[trapper1964]

competition commissioner ??

The EU has no idea how to compete.

[ts6307]

Leave MS Alone

MS has made huge contributions to the US economy and its many shareholders.

Not to mention the advances they have contributed to the IT industry. Do not tell me otherwise, if you even think that your are smallminded.

If not MS, then RedHat, whoever. IT has been placed into the hands of the common man. Internet connectivity has exploded in the past decade. Before Win95, who had access to the vast amount of info which they do today?

I don't care if it was MS or Novell or your grandma, someone was going to lead the charge of making PCs commonplace in the home. The marketplace was wide open and MS took the lead. No one ever stopped anyone from buying a Mac or a Linux system. Business is business, someone has to be #1 in the market. Maybe they will fine Lance Armstrong next cause no one from the the EU could beat him out. I guess that was unfair too.

If the EU doesn't like it tough. I wish MS would quit selling them software to be honest. Of course they would not since this would be a bad business decision. Let's see the EU develop their own OS and IT solutions and then we will fine them if they become successful.

Maybe they should fine Coca-Cola and KFC for holding out their secret recipes. What a joke. A bunch of whiners with their thunbs in their butt - didn't produce any of their own solutions, cannot compete so they cry no fair and stick their hands out.

[tomplast]

Okay...

Microsoft is arrogant and is playing king of the hill with their own set of rules that keeps them winning even when they're not supposed to.

I stopped using Windows a couple of weeks ago and I haven't regretted it. Ubuntu (a wonderful Linux distribution) fullfills most of my needs and it has several advantages that Microsoft never could have:

* It's free
* It's open so everyone who wants can change and contribute
* The developement is driving by what people wants and not what the company thinks that the people wants.

I must say in a childish way that I'm so happy that Microsoft got this fine to pay. Hopefully one day they will learn something good from the Linux and especially the Open Source community and implement it in a stable system.

[RickNekus]

maybe MS should leave US alone.

MS has made huge contributions to the US economy and its many shareholders.

-> yup, thats a given.

Not to mention the advances they have contributed to the IT industry. Do not tell me otherwise, if you even think that your are smallminded.

-> Ummm Microsoft didn't even have a TCP/IP stack until Win95. and who do you think created/invented the TCP/IP Protocol yep BSD/Unix (Berkeley System design) as well as DNS, sendmail,..., if it wasn't for BSD/Unix(and more important the truly Open BSD-License) the Internet
as "you" know it wouldn't even exist.

If not MS, then RedHat, whoever. IT has been placed into the hands of the common man.

->err was, thanks to Microsoft's DRM the common man (they hope)is now about to become a hunted prisoner of the Internet.

Internet connectivity has exploded in the past decade. Before Win95, who had access to the vast amount of info which they do today?

Yes i agree, and Its because of the "Internet" that Win95 was made -otherwise it was gonna be lights-out for Redmond-Microsoft.

I don't care if it was MS or Novell or your grandma, someone was going to lead the charge of making PCs commonplace in the home. The marketplace was wide open and MS took the lead. No one ever stopped anyone from buying a Mac or a Linux system. Business is business, someone has to be #1 in the market. Maybe they will fine Lance Armstrong next cause no one from the the EU could beat him out. I guess that was unfair too.

If the EU doesn't like it tough. I wish MS would quit selling them software to be honest. Of course they would not since this would be a bad business decision. Let's see the EU develop their own OS and IT solutions and then we will fine them if they become successful.

-> yes I agree, and case in point, I can't see how they could be un-successful with so many alternative and powerful NOS's like:

www.opensolaris.com (aka www.sun.com)
www.linux.org
www.freebsd.org
www.netbsd.org
www.openbsd.org

Maybe they should fine Coca-Cola and KFC for holding out their secret recipes. What a joke. A bunch of whiners with their thunbs in their butt - didn't produce any of their own solutions, cannot compete so they cry no fair and stick their hands out.

Actually, The Intenet as you rightuflly said "belongs" to the common man.
Therefore no single/multi entity and/or Corporation (and I DO Mean Microsoft) should try to own/control/manage it. They shouldn't muss around with something that was never theirs' to own in the first place -which brings us back to the purpose behind that most elegant of IT building-block Standards, the TCP/IP Protocol. So, try thinking of it this way, the EU wants to preserve and protect that most public of standards for their people, and maybe for the world if we would only clean the PooPoo out of our eyes, and ears. just as you would want to protect your own family -I would hope!
And that "Freedom" isn't just for Americans, its for all mankind.

[ts6307]

Leave MS Alone

MS has made huge contributions to the US economy and its many shareholders.

Not to mention the advances they have contributed to the IT industry. Do not tell me otherwise, if you even think that your are smallminded.

If not MS, then RedHat, whoever. IT has been placed into the hands of the common man. Internet connectivity has exploded in the past decade. Before Win95, who had access to the vast amount of info which they do today?

I don't care if it was MS or Novell or your grandma, someone was going to lead the charge of making PCs commonplace in the home. The marketplace was wide open and MS took the lead. No one ever stopped anyone from buying a Mac or a Linux system. Business is business, someone has to be #1 in the market. Maybe they will fine Lance Armstrong next cause no one from the the EU could beat him out. I guess that was unfair too.

If the EU doesn't like it tough. I wish MS would quit selling them software to be honest. Of course they would not since this would be a bad business decision. Let's see the EU develop their own OS and IT solutions and then we will fine them if they become successful.

Maybe they should fine Coca-Cola and KFC for holding out their secret recipes. What a joke. A bunch of whiners with their thunbs in their butt - didn't produce any of their own solutions, cannot compete so they cry no fair and stick their hands out.

[tomplast]

Okay...

Microsoft is arrogant and is playing king of the hill with their own set of rules that keeps them winning even when they're not supposed to.

I stopped using Windows a couple of weeks ago and I haven't regretted it. Ubuntu (a wonderful Linux distribution) fullfills most of my needs and it has several advantages that Microsoft never could have:

* It's free
* It's open so everyone who wants can change and contribute
* The developement is driving by what people wants and not what the company thinks that the people wants.

I must say in a childish way that I'm so happy that Microsoft got this fine to pay. Hopefully one day they will learn something good from the Linux and especially the Open Source community and implement it in a stable system.

[RickNekus]

maybe MS should leave US alone.

MS has made huge contributions to the US economy and its many shareholders.

-> yup, thats a given.

Not to mention the advances they have contributed to the IT industry. Do not tell me otherwise, if you even think that your are smallminded.

-> Ummm Microsoft didn't even have a TCP/IP stack until Win95. and who do you think created/invented the TCP/IP Protocol yep BSD/Unix (Berkeley System design) as well as DNS, sendmail,..., if it wasn't for BSD/Unix(and more important the truly Open BSD-License) the Internet
as "you" know it wouldn't even exist.

If not MS, then RedHat, whoever. IT has been placed into the hands of the common man.

->err was, thanks to Microsoft's DRM the common man (they hope)is now about to become a hunted prisoner of the Internet.

Internet connectivity has exploded in the past decade. Before Win95, who had access to the vast amount of info which they do today?

Yes i agree, and Its because of the "Internet" that Win95 was made -otherwise it was gonna be lights-out for Redmond-Microsoft.

I don't care if it was MS or Novell or your grandma, someone was going to lead the charge of making PCs commonplace in the home. The marketplace was wide open and MS took the lead. No one ever stopped anyone from buying a Mac or a Linux system. Business is business, someone has to be #1 in the market. Maybe they will fine Lance Armstrong next cause no one from the the EU could beat him out. I guess that was unfair too.

If the EU doesn't like it tough. I wish MS would quit selling them software to be honest. Of course they would not since this would be a bad business decision. Let's see the EU develop their own OS and IT solutions and then we will fine them if they become successful.

-> yes I agree, and case in point, I can't see how they could be un-successful with so many alternative and powerful NOS's like:

www.opensolaris.com (aka www.sun.com)
www.linux.org
www.freebsd.org
www.netbsd.org
www.openbsd.org

Maybe they should fine Coca-Cola and KFC for holding out their secret recipes. What a joke. A bunch of whiners with their thunbs in their butt - didn't produce any of their own solutions, cannot compete so they cry no fair and stick their hands out.

Actually, The Intenet as you rightuflly said "belongs" to the common man.
Therefore no single/multi entity and/or Corporation (and I DO Mean Microsoft) should try to own/control/manage it. They shouldn't muss around with something that was never theirs' to own in the first place -which brings us back to the purpose behind that most elegant of IT building-block Standards, the TCP/IP Protocol. So, try thinking of it this way, the EU wants to preserve and protect that most public of standards for their people, and maybe for the world if we would only clean the PooPoo out of our eyes, and ears. just as you would want to protect your own family -I would hope!
And that "Freedom" isn't just for Americans, its for all mankind.

[Hardrada]

Microsoft should just say no.

This is silly. Does anyone think this would be happening if Microsoft was a French or German company? It's just anti american euro trash trying to push around a US company. MS should just say fine, Europe doesn't want us we don't need them. Walk away from the market and let the Euro turds see how well their computers work with microsoft.

[t8]

Get a clue

Looks to me like you don't have a clue about the ramifications of your proposal.
You obviously haven't thought this one through.

[Mister C]

Right on!

The best thing that could possibly happen would be for M$ to walk away from Europe. Imagine all that brainpower going toward open source. That wouldn't just be shooting themselves in the foot. It would be more like dropping a grenade down their pants!

Please! Please! Please! Do it M$! Walk away and improve the desktop for generations to come!

[Hardrada]

Microsoft should just say no.

This is silly. Does anyone think this would be happening if Microsoft was a French or German company? It's just anti american euro trash trying to push around a US company. MS should just say fine, Europe doesn't want us we don't need them. Walk away from the market and let the Euro turds see how well their computers work with microsoft.

[t8]

Get a clue

Looks to me like you don't have a clue about the ramifications of your proposal.
You obviously haven't thought this one through.

[Mister C]

Right on!

The best thing that could possibly happen would be for M$ to walk away from Europe. Imagine all that brainpower going toward open source. That wouldn't just be shooting themselves in the foot. It would be more like dropping a grenade down their pants!

Please! Please! Please! Do it M$! Walk away and improve the desktop for generations to come!

[t8]

They deserve it

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

[t8]

They deserve it

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

[Mister C]

Finally, someone with Huevos!

It's about time someone stood up to Bill, Steve, and the rest of the Redmond Bully-Boys! The irony is just too rich!

[Mister C]

Finally, someone with Huevos!

It's about time someone stood up to Bill, Steve, and the rest of the Redmond Bully-Boys! The irony is just too rich!

[Björn Lundahl]

EU Bureaucrats Do Not Know What People Demands

People by buying products and services in a free market are doing this very thing, voluntarily. Microsoft is a large company, just because of the fact, that people voluntarily buy their software?s. In practise, people have ?voted? for Microsoft?s services and are still voting for them. If consumers thought, for instance in the past, like EU bureaucrats, that Microsoft, ?is getting to large?, they would have had shopped elsewhere, even if it was more expensive or that alternative software?s did not entirely fulfil their needs. Why, because it would be a value, in this very example, for the consumers to do so. But the consumers did not shop elsewhere and are still not shopping elsewhere (even when it is free), which means that they were and are, happy with Microsoft and this story is only about politics. If we want to question people?s choices and ?votes?, we should also question people?s votes when there are political elections. Why not, then, ?split? political parties which are in power?? We could then argue that ?people didn?t really vote for them, it was brilliant advertising and so on, that made the choice for them?. If Microsoft wants to have IE built into its operating system, they have a right to do so. It is their product. I, myself, like Firefox (and I think, IE 7 might be secure and good too), but I do believe that Microsoft is doing its customers a great service. This because, most customers do not download an alternative browser, which means that they are happy with IE. Even if it is true that earlier IE browsers have not been so secure and good. Naturally, Microsoft has the right, as any company, to keep its secrets. This is natural and has nothing to do with so called ?monopolistic behaviour?. How would a market function properly if companies were complied to inform others of their top secrets? Even without copyright protection, they have the right to keep them. Or, should we force pharmaceutical companies to inform their competitors of their secrets too? This might spur competition! We must consider the fact that the more attractive operating system Microsoft delivers, the better price they get and the more of them will they sell. Microsoft, for example, does a lot of things to make its new operating system attractive (the Vista version). The market price mechanism functions in this way. Bureaucrats do not have this mechanism and can not know what people really want! Microsoft also, naturally, has the right to offer any file system they want and if we consider mentioned price mechanism and one of the very reasons of Microsoft?s success, which was standardization, we can get a clue that Microsoft is doing the right thing or at least is trying to do the right thing (we are all humans and can therefore make mistakes). Björn Lundahl, Göteborg, Sweden

[Mister C]

Bla! Bla! Bla!

M$ obtained it's dominant position by the use of all manor of unfair and illegal market manipulations. To even attempt to infer that it was due to any sort of product superiority is plain bologna!

All the double talk will not change the fact that a monopoly is NOT the same as a free market. And that monopoly has done nothing more then enhance its' own interests at the expense of everyone else.

To this day, M$ is unable to create any software that could survive without the advantage of their desktop. Unfortunately they have managed to kill any real competition while it was still in the womb.

Your argument is just smoke and mirrors and would convince only those who still can't manage to install a program on their own. If M$ continues to abuse it's power to circumvent the public benefits of a free market then let them pay the price for their arrogance.

[jabbotts]

Check the ballot card

Are you really voting if you get to the ballot box and find out they only printed one name on it?

[onlythetony]

Not true..

People aren't buying M$ products voluntarily - for example, if you go into any computer store in the UK you have to buy the computer with M$ Windoze pre-installed. That's not voluntarily.. that's the only option. It's bullying.

As for bundling IE with Windoze.. why not bundle Firefox and at least give people the choice? Because M$ is all about control - they want to impose their own "standards" (compare IE6 & IE7 W3C compliancy compared to the open-source alternatives), they need people to depend on their software - otherwise they have no market. Rather than make it appealing they are relying on the fact that most people use their products - not generally out of choice but because they are not aware of any choice.

Personally, I use Linux, Firefox and Open Office to run my business - not out of anti-Microsoft sentiment but because it's much, much better.

[Björn Lundahl]

EU Bureaucrats Do Not Know What People Demands

People by buying products and services in a free market are doing this very thing, voluntarily. Microsoft is a large company, just because of the fact, that people voluntarily buy their software?s. In practise, people have ?voted? for Microsoft?s services and are still voting for them. If consumers thought, for instance in the past, like EU bureaucrats, that Microsoft, ?is getting to large?, they would have had shopped elsewhere, even if it was more expensive or that alternative software?s did not entirely fulfil their needs. Why, because it would be a value, in this very example, for the consumers to do so. But the consumers did not shop elsewhere and are still not shopping elsewhere (even when it is free), which means that they were and are, happy with Microsoft and this story is only about politics. If we want to question people?s choices and ?votes?, we should also question people?s votes when there are political elections. Why not, then, ?split? political parties which are in power?? We could then argue that ?people didn?t really vote for them, it was brilliant advertising and so on, that made the choice for them?. If Microsoft wants to have IE built into its operating system, they have a right to do so. It is their product. I, myself, like Firefox (and I think, IE 7 might be secure and good too), but I do believe that Microsoft is doing its customers a great service. This because, most customers do not download an alternative browser, which means that they are happy with IE. Even if it is true that earlier IE browsers have not been so secure and good. Naturally, Microsoft has the right, as any company, to keep its secrets. This is natural and has nothing to do with so called ?monopolistic behaviour?. How would a market function properly if companies were complied to inform others of their top secrets? Even without copyright protection, they have the right to keep them. Or, should we force pharmaceutical companies to inform their competitors of their secrets too? This might spur competition! We must consider the fact that the more attractive operating system Microsoft delivers, the better price they get and the more of them will they sell. Microsoft, for example, does a lot of things to make its new operating system attractive (the Vista version). The market price mechanism functions in this way. Bureaucrats do not have this mechanism and can not know what people really want! Microsoft also, naturally, has the right to offer any file system they want and if we consider mentioned price mechanism and one of the very reasons of Microsoft?s success, which was standardization, we can get a clue that Microsoft is doing the right thing or at least is trying to do the right thing (we are all humans and can therefore make mistakes). Björn Lundahl, Göteborg, Sweden

[Mister C]

Bla! Bla! Bla!

M$ obtained it's dominant position by the use of all manor of unfair and illegal market manipulations. To even attempt to infer that it was due to any sort of product superiority is plain bologna!

All the double talk will not change the fact that a monopoly is NOT the same as a free market. And that monopoly has done nothing more then enhance its' own interests at the expense of everyone else.

To this day, M$ is unable to create any software that could survive without the advantage of their desktop. Unfortunately they have managed to kill any real competition while it was still in the womb.

Your argument is just smoke and mirrors and would convince only those who still can't manage to install a program on their own. If M$ continues to abuse it's power to circumvent the public benefits of a free market then let them pay the price for their arrogance.

[jabbotts]

Check the ballot card

Are you really voting if you get to the ballot box and find out they only printed one name on it?

[onlythetony]

Not true..

People aren't buying M$ products voluntarily - for example, if you go into any computer store in the UK you have to buy the computer with M$ Windoze pre-installed. That's not voluntarily.. that's the only option. It's bullying.

As for bundling IE with Windoze.. why not bundle Firefox and at least give people the choice? Because M$ is all about control - they want to impose their own "standards" (compare IE6 & IE7 W3C compliancy compared to the open-source alternatives), they need people to depend on their software - otherwise they have no market. Rather than make it appealing they are relying on the fact that most people use their products - not generally out of choice but because they are not aware of any choice.

Personally, I use Linux, Firefox and Open Office to run my business - not out of anti-Microsoft sentiment but because it's much, much better.

[rippinchikkin]

MS should pull all products and support from eu

If I were Microsoft I would say FINE too, who needs a bunch of communist ingrates. MS needs sales in the (ooooh) EU like I need a third shoe. I would pull all products; all support for any currently owned products and let them FINE that if you will. The EU is not the end all to be all, and IMHO it will be the down fall of Europe. (You guys give up your individual identity to let some bureaucrats dictate policy and take away your money, and give you that play money, ah the euro, only worth something to all those lying, stealing politicians at the head of the EU)

[Mister C]

If I may repeat myself!

The best thing that could possibly happen would be for M$ to walk away from Europe. Imagine all that brainpower going toward open source. That wouldn't just be shooting themselves in the foot. It would be more like dropping a grenade down their pants!

Please! Please! Please! Do it M$! Walk away and improve the desktop for generations to come!

[ggupta7]

It's all about bottomline....

If MS thinks it can make more that $357 million in EU in the future, it will pay the fine... otherwise it won't (unless they are legally bound to pay).

It's not about ego, just the bottomline... how much will be the net benefit to the company

[rippinchikkin]

MS should pull all products and support from eu

If I were Microsoft I would say FINE too, who needs a bunch of communist ingrates. MS needs sales in the (ooooh) EU like I need a third shoe. I would pull all products; all support for any currently owned products and let them FINE that if you will. The EU is not the end all to be all, and IMHO it will be the down fall of Europe. (You guys give up your individual identity to let some bureaucrats dictate policy and take away your money, and give you that play money, ah the euro, only worth something to all those lying, stealing politicians at the head of the EU)

[Mister C]

If I may repeat myself!

The best thing that could possibly happen would be for M$ to walk away from Europe. Imagine all that brainpower going toward open source. That wouldn't just be shooting themselves in the foot. It would be more like dropping a grenade down their pants!

Please! Please! Please! Do it M$! Walk away and improve the desktop for generations to come!

[ggupta7]

It's all about bottomline....

If MS thinks it can make more that $357 million in EU in the future, it will pay the fine... otherwise it won't (unless they are legally bound to pay).

It's not about ego, just the bottomline... how much will be the net benefit to the company