Comments on: EU knocks Microsoft with $357 million fine

Figure could rise if the software giant doesn't comply by July 31 with Europe's antitrust dictates.

[FutureGuy]

No fines if MS relocates to EU..

There would have been no fine if MS was based in EU. EU is systematically trying to undermine successful US companies. France is trying to build bring down Google with its home grown (and gov financed) alternative, it is trying its best to push off Apple from the top of the music business; its subsidizing Airbus to compete with Boeing, the French went ballistic when Pepsi talked about buying Danon, the list is quite long. What EU is asking MS to is pretty much give up its business, MS has plenty of completion in the server business and EU saying otherwise is plain BS.

[bwvla]

Untrue

The EU publishes all of its anti-competition cases here: http://ec.europa.eu/comm/competition/index_en.html

A breif overview of that shows they are equally harsh on their own.

Armchair quarterbacks like to think that all games are about us vs. them. The truth is even in football there is more going on than us vs them. People should explore the facts instead of making sweeping assumptions or brainlessly following some op-ed writer or radio shock jock's sweeping assumptions.

As for your examples you repeatedly cite the French. The French are just one country of dozens in the EU. Half the EU members states done see eye to eye with the French so you claim is exagerated.

While I dont agree with the French system I do wonder why you shout at them for throwing their corporations favoritism. Its not like the US government hasnt bailed out or shown favortism to numerous US corporations often at the expense of American citizens. US corporations are not subsidized outright (unless it comes to a bailout like the airlines or crystler), but tax loopholes and other corporate welfare exist which is pretty much the same thing.

[tnt1954]

reminds me of hearsts, symbionese lib army

and their battle with anti-trusts since
the turn of the 19th century to the 20th.
it continued on and on.

[fc11]

such a easy way to raise tax money!!!

It seems that EU is allowed to fine Microsoft for 5% of their revenue world-wide. Interestingly, will this 5% cap apply to South Korea, South Africa, etc, or Iran? Since there are about 140 Nations worldwide, the total would probably be about 500% of their revenue. Who cares what Microsoft or Apple does, but this is such a easy way to increase tax revenue, and only a foolish nation will not do it.

[ORinSF]

And the EU gains a new source of funding

How much money is the EU gaining by these actions? Seems like they are self-perpetuating.

This decision is technophobic and over the top. I honestly don't know if MS complied with the letter of the law but it sounds like the worked in good faith with an unaccountable bureaucracy. And, like all good bureaucracy, it's all about documentation, rather than serving customers.

European citizens have every freedom to buy something other than MS products. Recall that the EC's last solution was Windows XP N, and precisely no one bought it. Do we really believe they are competent to make tech choices for consumers?

European consumers should make their own tech product choices, not unelected folks like Ms. Kroes. Why would any new technology company want to operate in Europe after witnessing this?

[trapper1964]

What do you expect from parasites???

The socialist Europeans, like parasites, want to live off of the success of the USA (just as they relied on us in WWII to save their bloody carcasses). Were they willing to compete, their technical groups would just write a software program that would compete with Microsoft and perhpas leave MS in the dust. Rather, as spineless socialists don't understand competition, they seek to oppress the competition when they themselves either aren't willing to compete or don't have the intellegence to compete. Either way, the EU is composed of a buch of cheeze-eating surrender monkeys.

[t8]

Break the law, then pay the price.

If MS keep breaking the law then the EU is wise to fine MS.
Breaking the law in any country always involves punishment of some kind.
Usually the punishment is designed to make the defendant stop.
Simple stuff really. Nothing unusual about this.

[extinctone]

A small step in the right direction

Bill Gates and Steve Balmer should be serving jail time for all the harm they have caused to society. But at least this is a start.

[Captain_Spock]

By This Brazen and Pompous Posturing...

... of fining the US based Microsoft Corporation $357.3 million... how does this address the questions of the poverty, sickness, national security, the engineering economies... of states around the world!

[qazwiz]

You must buy citrus fruit so you can drive a car.

buying lemons and limes to drive a car is the only way you could be so out of this world (you chose a good pseudonym, you are fictional but from another planet just the same)

A monopoly is always detrimental to the common people, no matter how well intentioned at first, it needs to be watched and regulated to prevent gouging

a ten day fine, come on now, that comes to about twenty days per year... let me ask you, would you give you paycheck for the next three weeks so you could break any law you wanted for the next year?

That is what will happen when they eventually lose but until then they are bullying their way through the system.

[arrilaser]

Facts Not Emotion

I will not address all of your post as some are just out there, but
here are a few -

Media Player was the predecessor of Windows Media Player,
which was originally released as part of Windows 3.0 with
Multimedia Extensions. It also included screensaves such as
Mystify and Starfield. So yes, Microsoft was the first to have
(invent) Media Player.

Internet Explore was integrated into Windows 95 as part of the
OS to allow you to "browse" your files. So what. Everyone
thought html and Java would replace all other document files.
Man did that turn out to be silly.

The US Government is still a bunch of elected people that could
not configure their home PC's without at least 5 staffer's. It was
a bad decision to have Microsoft "not integrate" IE in Win98. A
bad decision is a bad decision, not one you can use as "proof" of
the EU decision being "not wrong". You do not like IE, download
Mozilla, Netscape or Opera and use My Computer to do file
searching.

I had WinAMP (and Realplayer and some others). They worked
OK, just OK, but I did not like the adware/spyware features. I
guess you did. Yes they kinda cleaned up their acts, but only
after they got caught.

I am not a big Microsoft fan. I am writing this from my new
MacBook. First Mac I ever owned and Love It. But I can keep an
open mind to the reality that courts and governments are not
protecting free trade, they are limiting it and trying to control it
and your thoughts.

Geez, that's a lot of dough.

When you look at that list of fines M$ has paid out, http://www.techknowcafe.com/content/view/551/43/, it's amazing that these guys can exist. But then again, they are doing some nasty stuff to be getting fined that much in the first place.

[js9876]

As consumers we should applaud this

Does anyone really believe that there is anything unfair about asking Microsoft to un-bundle its application software from its operating system? We all know that these software applications (IE, Media Player) do not need to be part of the OS, and Microsoft is insulting our collective intelligence by claiming otherwise. Get a grip people, this isn't about US foreign policy. This is about standing up for consumers and making sure that we have the right to make choices in a free and competitive market. We can only hope that the EU succeeds where the US DOJ failed so miserably.

[PzkwVIb]

Yes it is unfair

Apple bundles all of that stuff, and no one complains. There are third party programs available, I can use as well as the bundled ones. If I really had an objection to bundling, I wouldn't buy Windows, but I have no objection and do buy Windows. What gives any government the right to tell Microsoft that they must now sell windows in other than my desired configuration. They have no right to interfere with my end user experience and I would thank them to keep their filthy paws off of the software I choose to use.

[PzkwVIb]

Yes it is unfair

Apple bundles all of that stuff, and no one complains. There are third party programs available, I can use as well as the bundled ones. If I really had an objection to bundling, I wouldn't buy Windows, but I have no objection and do buy Windows. What gives any government the right to tell Microsoft that they must now sell windows in other than my desired configuration. They have no right to interfere with my end user experience and I would thank them to keep their filthy paws off of the software I choose to use.

[VI Joker]

What is there to appluad?

Windows XP N (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2005/jun05/06-08XPNEuropePR.mspx) already exisits for those who do not want Media player (not sure if you still have IE or not). Futhermore if its an insult to "our collective intelligence" by claiming that IE, Media Player, etc. do not need to be a part of Windows, its a further insult to assume that it makes a difference that they are a part of Windows. I and many I know install their perferred apps after getting a new computer. Its not like MS locks you into Media Player and IE on Windows. So you do have a choice. Additionally if you are going to say you should have choice of apps when you buy a PC, then speak to Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc. about the choices you have when you buy a PC from them. The choices are out there you just have to know about them.

[Carl, Sr.]

Alternatively speaking

If it were up to me, I would tell the EU to take a flying leap!
Furthermore I would not make my software available to EU any
more. If they have a problem with that and want to come up with
something on their own - let them!
And if they steal programming etc., from MS, then MS can buy the
whole EU with the lawsuits emanating from the stealing of MS
property.
Let them eat cake.....

[bwvla]

IBMs wet dream

If MS were to tell the EU to take a flying leap and pull their software that would be a day of celebration for all of their competitors. It would be a great day for the US stock market. Imagine the rally when IBM, Oracle, Apple and the like announce their sales have quadrupled.

[t8]

To the US Justice Dept

This is how you get compliance. The US Justice Dept should learn from the EU.

[itworker--2008]

The Money

So far I have not heard what is going to happen with this large amount of money. Is this just going in the pockets of EU lawyers like it would if it were a US class action suit?

That's what I want to know. Are the PEOPLE going to get any of the money?
I bet the answer is NO...

If the common person doesn't get any of the money, then it's just Government Extortion

[Björn Lundahl]

EU Bureaucrats Do Not Know What People Demands.

People by buying products and services in a free market are doing this very thing, voluntarily. Microsoft is a large company, just because of the fact, that people voluntarily buy their software?s. In practise, people have ?voted? for Microsoft?s services and are still voting for them. If consumers thought, for instance in the past, like EU bureaucrats, that Microsoft, ?is getting to large?, they would have had shopped elsewhere, even if it was more expensive or that alternative software?s did not entirely fulfil their needs. Why, because it would be a value, in this very example, for the consumers to do so. But the consumers did not shop elsewhere and are still not shopping elsewhere (even when it is free), which means that they were and are, happy with Microsoft and this story is only about politics. If we want to question people?s choices and ?votes?, we should also question people?s votes when there are political elections. Why not, then, ?split? political parties which are in power?? We could then argue that ?people didn?t really vote for them, it was brilliant advertising and so on, that made the choice for them?. If Microsoft wants to have IE built into its operating system, they have a right to do so. It is their product. I, myself, like Firefox (and I think, IE 7 might be secure and good too), but I do believe that Microsoft is doing its customers a great service. This because, most customers do not download an alternative browser, which means that they are happy with IE. Even if it is true that earlier IE browsers have not been so secure and good. Naturally, Microsoft has the right, as any company, to keep its secrets. This is natural and has nothing to do with so called ?monopolistic behaviour?. How would a market function properly if companies were complied to inform others of their top secrets? Even without copyright protection, they have the right to keep them. Or, should we force pharmaceutical companies to inform their competitors of their secrets too? This might spur competition! We must consider the fact that the more attractive operating system Microsoft delivers, the better price they get and the more of them will they sell. Microsoft, for example, does a lot of things to make its new operating system attractive (the Vista version). The market price mechanism functions in this way. Bureaucrats do not have this mechanism and can not know what people really want! Microsoft also, naturally, has the right to offer any file system they want and if we consider mentioned price mechanism and one of the very reasons of Microsoft?s success, which was standardization, we can get a clue that Microsoft is doing the right thing or at least is trying to do the right thing (we are all humans and can therefore make mistakes). Björn Lundahl, Göteborg, Sweden

[Mallardd]

What if they don't pay it?

Will the Europeeons then be denied Windows Visa and be forced to uninstall thier existing Windows installations?

[qwerty75]

what?

Being denied Vista is not a bad thing at all, but will never happen.

Why would you think that people would be forced to uninstall existing windows installs? Do MS fans ever think?

[LarryTanner]

Always options

That's my point. One of many possible considerations should be to weigh the importance of the EU market as it relates to open-source and other global competition. Must the EU market be maintained regardless of the cost and loss of the ability to control their intelectual property? There may be a tipping point at which the EU market is just not worth it! Customers will buy MS products as long as they are the best solution. MS should not give away their property without a serious consideration of the alternatives. I know what my inclination would be in response to the strong-arm tactics of a government (either US or EU). There are always options to be considered. MS must consider what is best for their shareholders both the short term and long term. Live Free.

[Lex Man]

Best option

There best option is to appeal the fine and if they lose, pay the damn thing.

Then they should do what the EU want to get this whole thing over with.

MS would lose 28% of there business from Europe. It would also damage it in other countries (I would imagine including America) in the long term. As companies would move to be compatible with offices in Europe.


I think your massively underestimating the size and power of Europe. It a far larger potential market than the US.

[qwerty75]

Funny stuff

Most of these MS defenders are so clueless about the issues and think the EU is stealing something.

How does one steal an API, of course most MS fans don't know what an API is, and why it is impossible to steal it.

Even more funny is that MS can't seem to find the documentation, but MS and its close partners use it on a daily basis, to push out competition.

[tmccarty8]

EU fines for Microsoft.

Well there is a way for Microsoft to avoid all of this BS from the EU. Just recall all of the MS software in use in all of the EU countries. After all the license is to USE, not to OWN! They are just RENTING the software and Microsoft has the right to take it back at any time without issuing any refunds. Try getting by without MS software for a while EU and see how you like it. It's time that these people remember just why they have the ability to do this type of thing, if it wasn't for the US these frogs would still be trying to learn German!

[Gino Deblauwe]

...

And then they don't understand why they get an airplane in their buildings someday.

...

Most of the 5 year olds I know are also thinking of everything in armies

Most of the 10 year olds I know think they can save the world by bashing the badguys

...

Besides IF you learned your history, you would know why the USA joined in Europe, and it's not because of your good heart.

Come back on topic dude, it's about hidden API's, coming to an open market with a level playing field, unfair business methods still used today, and how one breaks a law in a country and gets away with it, and that same one breaks the same law in another country and doesn't get away with it. If your country did it's job properly, we didn't have to do something about it now after several years of warning.

=> read some intelligent posts and learn the history behind it. And leave that army at home where it belongs.

[jachamp]

Is this like the fine Exxon got for the Valdez?

This is one of those fines that look good on paper but in reality, MS will probably never be forced to pay one thin dime of it.

Am I right?

[dick12L]

money

I was just wondering how much money does it take to make a company pay to the EU for trying to make a point that all they want to do is milk a company of it right to do business their. The US found ms doing business the wrong, and they fixed it now EU seems like they our out for blood with these fines, It getting close to a billion dollars don't you think that is a lot of money to fine a company.